Re: [DNG] Devuan eBook Reader
On Mon, 24 May 2021 19:25:16 + g4sra via Dng wrote: > Has anyone attempted to put Devuan on an eBook yet ? Devuan is Debian without systemd. Check with the Debian people. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Cockpit removal might make sense
On 5/26/21 12:53 AM, Rowland penny via Dng wrote: Why would you want to remove something that works ? It just needs an init script. I've been shown by Rowland that a lot of it does work without systemd and, yes, an init script is needed, which I've submitted upstream, thanks to Rowland. Thanks everyone for your feedback. Simon ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ifupdown laptop wired/wifi trick
Le 26/05/2021 à 12:22, o1bigtenor a écrit : > On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 1:26 AM Didier Kryn wrote: >> Le 25/05/2021 à 21:43, Mason Loring Bliss a écrit : >>> I've been managing network connections on my laptop by hand, and I was just >>> thinking that I'd like it to bring up its NICs automatically if it's >>> plugged in, but I didn't want to use ifplugd for various reasons, and >>> anyway, I like ifupdown and I want to stick with it. >> There's no contradiction between ifupdown and ifplugd; they work >> well together. I have been using both for decades. What I exclude is >> network-manager. >> > Hmm - - - - - why exclude network-manager? > > (just wanting to understand.) > > TIA Well it goes in the way: it undoes what ifupdown does and vice versa, creating a total mess (~: -- Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ifupdown laptop wired/wifi trick
Le 26/05/2021 à 13:54, Olaf Meeuwissen a écrit : > I have found that the combination of ifupdown, netplug and wpasupplicant > and a bit of tinkering with /etc/network/interfaces and a configuration > file for wpa_supplicant satisfies my needs. Same for me, replacing netplug with ifplugd. I have nothing against netplug, just too lazzy to change a working configuration. -- Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ifupdown laptop wired/wifi trick
Hi, o1bigtenor via Dng writes: > On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 1:26 AM Didier Kryn wrote: >> >> Le 25/05/2021 à 21:43, Mason Loring Bliss a écrit : >> > I've been managing network connections on my laptop by hand, and I was just >> > thinking that I'd like it to bring up its NICs automatically if it's >> > plugged in, but I didn't want to use ifplugd for various reasons, and >> > anyway, I like ifupdown and I want to stick with it. >> >> There's no contradiction between ifupdown and ifplugd; they work >> well together. I have been using both for decades. What I exclude is >> network-manager. >> > Hmm - - - - - why exclude network-manager? > > (just wanting to understand.) That's a good thing, wanting to understand. For me, network-manager (and wicd as well) just got in my way. They did not want to play by *my* rules. On top of that, it/they bloat my system with additional dependencies. I have found that the combination of ifupdown, netplug and wpasupplicant and a bit of tinkering with /etc/network/interfaces and a configuration file for wpa_supplicant satisfies my needs. If using network-manager (or wicd) satisfies your needs, that's fine but you may want to look into using something less "My way, or the highway!" and less bloated. Hope this helps, -- Olaf Meeuwissen, LPIC-2FSF Associate Member since 2004-01-27 GnuPG key: F84A2DD9/B3C0 2F47 EA19 64F4 9F13 F43E B8A4 A88A F84A 2DD9 Support Free Softwarehttps://my.fsf.org/donate Join the Free Software Foundation https://my.fsf.org/join ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Cockpit removal might make sense
Hi Mark (and everyone else on the list!), Mark Hindley writes: > On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 07:03:16PM +, g4sra via Dng wrote: >> Is this the rule for all packages that have dependency on SystemD for some >> functionality ? > > My personal opinion on this is yes. Add mine! > Non systemd init is still possible in Debian. So it appears some > current versions of cockpit will not work on a Debian system with > sysvinit, runit or openrc. To my mind, that makes it a Debian bug that > should be fixed there with an explicit dependency. As long as systemd is not `Essential: yes` (or `Priority: required`), anything that doesn't work without it needs to add a `Depends:`. But you already mentioned that below :-) FTR, for buster, bullseye and sid and as of writing, systemd is `Priority: important`, see https://sources.debian.org/src/systemd/247.3-5/debian/control/ (for bullseye and sid). >> I was under the impression that missing dependencies from Debian >> packages was to be expected, and that it was not considered >> 'important' by some of the Debian devs. That was a while ago though >> (Lenny ?)...maybe opinions have changed. > > Again, my take on this is that In Debian, systemd is the default, but it is > still not Essential in the Debian Policy technical sense.[1] Therefore > packages > (in this case cockpit) must explicitly depend on packages (in this case > systemd > or systemd-sysv) they require to function[2]. Debian Policy mandates this as a > 'must', so not complying should be an RC bug. Seeing that bullseye is in freeze, reporting this as an RC bug might actually get it fixed :-P ... On the other hand, you might just be perceived as a jerk/nitpick ... and get your bug downgraded because the maintainer wants to have it included in bullseye anyway. > However, as we have seen, some DDs are very quick to quote the Policy when it > suits them and will ignore it when it is inconvenient... Like I said :-) > [1] > https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-binary.html#essential-packages > > [2] https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-binary.html#dependencies Hope this helps, -- Olaf Meeuwissen, LPIC-2FSF Associate Member since 2004-01-27 GnuPG key: F84A2DD9/B3C0 2F47 EA19 64F4 9F13 F43E B8A4 A88A F84A 2DD9 Support Free Softwarehttps://my.fsf.org/donate Join the Free Software Foundation https://my.fsf.org/join ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ifupdown laptop wired/wifi trick
Hi, Didier Kryn writes: > Le 25/05/2021 à 21:43, Mason Loring Bliss a écrit: >> I've been managing network connections on my laptop by hand, and I was just >> thinking that I'd like it to bring up its NICs automatically if it's >> plugged in, but I didn't want to use ifplugd for various reasons, and >> anyway, I like ifupdown and I want to stick with it. > > There's no contradiction between ifupdown and ifplugd; they work > well together. I have been using both for decades. What I exclude is > network-manager. For those having qualms about using ifplugd, you can use netplug in its stead. Works out of the box for eth* devices and you don't even need an `auto eth0` or similar in /etc/network/interfaces. # You may need to fiddle a bit when switching between wired and wireless # though. Or when using both. # Haven't looked at using mii-tool yet ... Hope this helps, -- Olaf Meeuwissen, LPIC-2FSF Associate Member since 2004-01-27 GnuPG key: F84A2DD9/B3C0 2F47 EA19 64F4 9F13 F43E B8A4 A88A F84A 2DD9 Support Free Softwarehttps://my.fsf.org/donate Join the Free Software Foundation https://my.fsf.org/join ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ifupdown laptop wired/wifi trick
On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 1:26 AM Didier Kryn wrote: > > Le 25/05/2021 à 21:43, Mason Loring Bliss a écrit : > > I've been managing network connections on my laptop by hand, and I was just > > thinking that I'd like it to bring up its NICs automatically if it's > > plugged in, but I didn't want to use ifplugd for various reasons, and > > anyway, I like ifupdown and I want to stick with it. > > There's no contradiction between ifupdown and ifplugd; they work > well together. I have been using both for decades. What I exclude is > network-manager. > Hmm - - - - - why exclude network-manager? (just wanting to understand.) TIA ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Cockpit removal might make sense
On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 04:23:56PM +0900, Simon Walter wrote: > On 5/26/21 12:37 AM, Mark Hindley wrote: > > This is actually a Debian bug and should be fixed there. > > > > If cockpit requires systemd, is should declare that dependency. > > AFAICT, it requires a systemd socket. It doesn't require any systemd > packages (debs). Would that still be considered a dependency WRT to > packages? I am no systemd expert ;) and have little first hand knowledge of it. But my limited understanding is that systemd socket activation is the systemd absorption/reimplementation of inetd(8) and requires systemd itself to be running. Mark ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Cockpit removal might make sense
On 5/26/21 12:37 AM, Mark Hindley wrote: This is actually a Debian bug and should be fixed there. If cockpit requires systemd, is should declare that dependency. AFAICT, it requires a systemd socket. It doesn't require any systemd packages (debs). Would that still be considered a dependency WRT to packages? If the dependency were present, amprolla would exclude cockpit from the Devuan archives. So I suggest you submit a bug to Debian's BTS asking for the explicit systemd dependency to be added. If it turns out to be the case, I will do so. Thanks, Simon ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Cockpit removal might make sense
On 5/26/21 1:25 AM, Rowland penny via Dng wrote: On 25/05/2021 17:09, Tomasz Torcz wrote: ... Have you seen Cockpit working on Devuan system? Yes, I had it running on my old Samba AD DC's and I now have it running on a Devuan Unix domain member on my way to installing the Samba AD DC module. ... I am really interested in how you were able to do this. I've installed it on a fresh Beowulf installation and would appreciate some guidance/hints in setting it up without a systemd socket. Best regards, Simon ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ifupdown laptop wired/wifi trick
Le 25/05/2021 à 21:43, Mason Loring Bliss a écrit : > I've been managing network connections on my laptop by hand, and I was just > thinking that I'd like it to bring up its NICs automatically if it's > plugged in, but I didn't want to use ifplugd for various reasons, and > anyway, I like ifupdown and I want to stick with it. There's no contradiction between ifupdown and ifplugd; they work well together. I have been using both for decades. What I exclude is network-manager. -- Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
