Re: [DNG] article about devuan
On Mon, 2022-08-01 at 09:29 -0500, goli...@devuan.org wrote: > This "review" that has everybody's knickers in a twist is a tempest in a > teapot. Let it go. Instead of getting all worked up about it, get even > by joining the Devuan team and contributing something useful towards our > next release, Daedalus . . . > > golinux Your post reminded me I haven't donated for awhile, so I just donated a small amount off money to Devuan. My skills include neither packaging, C++ nor aesthetics, so the best I can do to help further Devuan is to donate. Thanks for the reminder. SteveT ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] article about devuan
On Mon, 2022-08-01 at 09:29 -0500, goli...@devuan.org wrote: > On 2022-08-01 01:33, Steve Litt wrote: > > On Sun, 2022-07-31 at 13:29 +0100, Peter Duffy wrote: > > > Is it worth while considering putting a link to the article on > > > devuan.org, together with a response answering the criticisms in > > > detail? > > > > Yes. > > > > SteveT > > > > > > No, NO and N! devuan.org is NOT a social media site. FULL STOP! > > It is an informational website that provides an historical overview, > technical information and where to go for support. PERIOD. Whoaa, I didn't mean it had to come from Devuan.Org. You made some alternative suggestions. Those would be fine if they get plenty of public exposure. > > This "review" that has everybody's knickers in a twist is a tempest in a > teapot. I view it as an opportunity to sway others to our way of thinking and grow the population using Devuan. SteveT ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] article about devuan
On Mon, 2022-08-01 at 11:39 +0100, Peter Duffy wrote: > On Sun, 2022-07-31 at 09:09 -0500, goli...@devuan.org wrote: > > On 2022-07-31 07:29, Peter Duffy wrote: > > > > > > Is it worth while considering putting a link to the article on > > > devuan.org, together with a response answering the criticisms in > > > detail? > > > > > > > devuan.org is not a social news service for trivia. If any Devuan > > articles were to be posted, it should be these: > > > > http://dev1galaxy.org/files/Linux_Magazine_171_Reprint_Devuan.pdf > > http://dev1galaxy.org/files/Linux_Magazine_Reprint_Devuan.pdf > > > > But beating our own drum publicly invites a response and we really > > don't > > need to stir that pot again . . . IMO, of course. > > > > We are #2 in Distrowatch rankings (from user reviews not ratings ie > > the > > bean counter). That speaks for itself. Run silent, run deep . . . > > > > golinux > > For what it's worth, here's my own view. The article makes claims > about, and accusations against, devuan which either deliberately or > from misconceptions are clearly erroneous. The question is whether or > not these claims could damage the reputation of devuan and put people > off trying it. If not - we don't need to do anything. But if so - there > should be a rebuttal of the claims and accusations. One true thing is that the author chose to put us in the top 5 sans-systemd OSes. Therefore, we probably shouldn't go in antagonistally. I'd take the route of saying "thanks for recognizing the quality of Devuan. The association for the furtherance of Devuan has a few more things to add..." It's basically an "and" rather than a "but", and keeps away defensiveness. As far as "the association for the furtherance of Devuan", change that to anything indicating this comes from a lot of people and not just one. SteveT ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] article about devuan
On 2022-08-01 01:33, Steve Litt wrote: On Sun, 2022-07-31 at 13:29 +0100, Peter Duffy wrote: Is it worth while considering putting a link to the article on devuan.org, together with a response answering the criticisms in detail? Yes. SteveT No, NO and N! devuan.org is NOT a social media site. FULL STOP! It is an informational website that provides an historical overview, technical information and where to go for support. PERIOD. This "review" that has everybody's knickers in a twist is a tempest in a teapot. Let it go. Instead of getting all worked up about it, get even by joining the Devuan team and contributing something useful towards our next release, Daedalus . . . golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] article about devuan
On Mon, 2022-08-01 at 11:39 +0100, Peter Duffy wrote: > If one of the IT > news sites like register.com got interested in the debate, it would > probably be good publicity for devuan, if nothing else. For "register.com", read "theregister.com". Apologies - I should have checked before posting. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] article about devuan
On Sun, 2022-07-31 at 09:09 -0500, goli...@devuan.org wrote: > On 2022-07-31 07:29, Peter Duffy wrote: > > > > Is it worth while considering putting a link to the article on > > devuan.org, together with a response answering the criticisms in > > detail? > > > > devuan.org is not a social news service for trivia. If any Devuan > articles were to be posted, it should be these: > > http://dev1galaxy.org/files/Linux_Magazine_171_Reprint_Devuan.pdf > http://dev1galaxy.org/files/Linux_Magazine_Reprint_Devuan.pdf > > But beating our own drum publicly invites a response and we really > don't > need to stir that pot again . . . IMO, of course. > > We are #2 in Distrowatch rankings (from user reviews not ratings ie > the > bean counter). That speaks for itself. Run silent, run deep . . . > > golinux For what it's worth, here's my own view. The article makes claims about, and accusations against, devuan which either deliberately or from misconceptions are clearly erroneous. The question is whether or not these claims could damage the reputation of devuan and put people off trying it. If not - we don't need to do anything. But if so - there should be a rebuttal of the claims and accusations. It could be done by posting a comment in response to the original article. But that would originate from - or at least would appear to originate from - a single individual, and unless the response was discussed and debated beforehand, it would probably clash to some extent with the collective views of the devuan community. An "official" and semi-permanent response posted on devuan.org or in some other appropriate place would be seen as coming from the devuan project as a whole. If one of the IT news sites like register.com got interested in the debate, it would probably be good publicity for devuan, if nothing else. As I say - if we take the view that the article is a storm in a teacup, to be forgotten soon, we probably don't need to do anything. I know the value of "run silent, run deep". But my own current motto - in connection with systemd and just about everything else which is happening and not happening at the moment - is: "Do not go gentle into that good night: rage, rage against the dying of the light". ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Be prepared for the fall of systemd
Hi all, As I said in a previous message, I see sentiment very slowly turning against systemd. If systemd keeps losing popularity, I have no doubt the corporate carpetbaggers will try to force an even worse atrocity on us, so we need to be ready this time and not have the argument centered on a false choice. I see two init systems ready to take the baton and run with it: * Runit * S6 Runit is the simplest init system other than /bin/bash or an rc script. It's maintained by the Void Linux project, so hit hard at the FUDdists who claim runit is unmaintained. S6 is advancing full speed to a complete solution, implementing all the best features of systemd, but these features are voluntary and separable. If you want top quality, choice and performance, and are willing to accept a little more complexity (but sane complexity), S6 plus its service manager is the way to go. In my opinion, S6 plus its service manager offers more than OpenRC, and IMHO it's easier to configure/manage. If and when systemd falls, we need to be ready, so we can get the right init system, instead yet another corporate sponsored Rube Goldberg Machine. SteveT ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] article about devuan
On Sun, 2022-07-31 at 09:09 -0500, goli...@devuan.org wrote: > On 2022-07-31 07:29, Peter Duffy wrote: > > > > Is it worth while considering putting a link to the article on > > devuan.org, together with a response answering the criticisms in > > detail? > > > [snip] > > But beating our own drum publicly invites a response and we really don't > need to stir that pot again . . . IMO, of course. As you know, I'm a huge believer in beating one's own drum, and I think in this case it would be an excellent idea. As far as stirring the pot, I see your point --- lots of poisoned arrows will be aimed our way, but we can rebut with the single word "hater", which is of course an ad hominem logical fallacy, but those guys won't know the difference. Also, I think public opinion is slowly building against systemd, so we're likely to benefit from a dustup. Finally, with very few exceptions, any publicity is good pulicity. > > We are #2 in Distrowatch rankings (from user reviews not ratings ie the > bean counter). That speaks for itself. Run silent, run deep . . . You refer to https://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=ranking . Holy cow: 4 of the top 6 are sans-systemd. Goes to what I said about public opinion slowly building against systemd. Congratulations to the Devuan team for this spectacular achievement. The Debianistas said you were bluffing. Devuan's #2, Debian's #13 in these ratings rankings. SteveT ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] article about devuan
On Sun, 2022-07-31 at 13:29 +0100, Peter Duffy wrote: > Is it worth while considering putting a link to the article on > devuan.org, together with a response answering the criticisms in > detail? Yes. SteveT ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
