On Thu, 2022-09-08 at 12:29 +0100, Peter Duffy wrote:
> On Thu, 2022-09-08 at 21:21 +1000, Ralph Ronnquist wrote:
> > On Thu, Sep 08, 2022 at 11:46:50AM +0100, Peter Duffy wrote:
> > > I assume that at some point, the installation iso images are
> > > going
> >
On Thu, 2022-09-08 at 21:21 +1000, Ralph Ronnquist wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 08, 2022 at 11:46:50AM +0100, Peter Duffy wrote:
> > I assume that at some point, the installation iso images are going
> > to
> > be rebuilt to include the new devuan-keyring package? Until this is
>
I assume that at some point, the installation iso images are going to
be rebuilt to include the new devuan-keyring package? Until this is
done, a devuan install can only be completed by using the
wget/chroot/dpkg kludge.
Given LP's move to M$, there's probably more interest than usual in
devuan
On Tue, 2022-09-06 at 11:33 -0600, Chris Dos wrote:
> I also had to manually delete the previous key in order for this to
> work:
> apt-key del "E032 601B 7CA1 0BC3 EA53 FA81 BB23 C00C 61FC 752C"
>
> After that:
>
On Tue, 2022-09-06 at 17:46 +0100, Peter Duffy wrote:
> Ralph, thanks for the workaround - it worked fine. I had been trying
> something similar, but I'd forgotten about the chroot.
(Or to coin a phrase, close but no ch(e)root ;) )
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Dng m
On Tue, 2022-09-06 at 23:02 +1000, Ralph Ronnquist wrote:
>
> The required hands-on to make use of the current installer ISOs
> includes the use of wget and dpkg at the point where the installation
> first breaks, though probably only via a C-A-F2 escape to a root
> shell
> while the installation
tall image.
Are the netinstall images going to be re-generated fairly soon? If not,
is it worth while thinking of a way of importing the new key into the
install process?
On Mon, 2022-09-05 at 16:49 +0100, Peter Duffy wrote:
> Sorry if this has been addressed before - I did look throug
Sorry if this has been addressed before - I did look through the posts,
but couldn't see anything relevant. Also sorry if I'm missing something
obvious.
I'm trying to install chimaera on a virtualbox VM, using the netinstall
image (devuan_chimaera_4.0.0_amd64_netinstall.iso, dated Nov 18 2021) -
Ludovic, thanks for that. Confirmed that the new key seems to work, and
upgrade now in process.
One point which I'm sure is obvious, but just thought I'd mention it:
"dpkg " => "dpkg -i "
On Sat, 2022-09-03 at 19:27 +0200, Ludovic Bellière via Dng wrote:
> Hello list,
>
> In order to
On Mon, 2022-08-01 at 11:39 +0100, Peter Duffy wrote:
> If one of the IT
> news sites like register.com got interested in the debate, it would
> probably be good publicity for devuan, if nothing else.
For "register.com", read "theregister.com".
Apologies - I shoul
On Sun, 2022-07-31 at 09:09 -0500, goli...@devuan.org wrote:
> On 2022-07-31 07:29, Peter Duffy wrote:
> >
> > Is it worth while considering putting a link to the article on
> > devuan.org, together with a response answering the criticisms in
> > detail?
> >
>
On Sat, 2022-07-30 at 06:07 -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Fri, 2022-07-29 at 14:27 +0200, tito via Dng wrote:
> > https://linuxiac.com/best-systemd-free-linux-distributions/
> >
> > I think the author knows nothing about devuan and spreads FUD
> >
>
> I thought most of the Devuan review was
On Wed, 2022-07-13 at 15:49 -0500, hal wrote:
> On July 13, 2022 3:31:37 PM CDT, Syeed Ali
> wrote:
> :: Microsoft has a great interest in embracing Linux via WSL with the
> :: intent to obsolete the need to dual boot. With many critical
> :: distributions and software requiring systemd, it only
The waters do seem very muddy at the moment.
The one thing which seems self-evident is that if Poettering is
continuing to work on systemd, it's not going to be in his spare time -
so that means that it's going to be in the context of M$, and almost
certainly in that of WSL.
I'd give a lot to
It's an interesting development, and in a strange way it feels as
though it's been coming.
IBM owns Redhat and M$ owns systemd (Poettering has said that he's
continuing to work on systemd. Presumably that's not going to be in his
spare time ;) ). I wonder how that's going to play out. Maybe M$
Quite a long time ago, I mentioned that I'd been tasked with upgrading
some linux VMs running under Microsoft Azure, and had decided to try to
use devuan. I then found that devuan wouldn't work under azure. The
problem was walinuxagent - aka waagent and azurelinuxagent, the glue
layer which sits
, I'll try this.
On Tue, 2022-02-15 at 10:27 +, Peter Duffy wrote:
> I wasn't quite there!
>
> The upgrade to grub 2.06 fixed the boot problem - but when I booted into
> chimaera, it came up with a major graphics problem - 640x480 display, no
> tty sessions available, and /dev/d
especially) the fonts seem more readable.
On Mon, 2022-02-14 at 18:23 +0000, Peter Duffy wrote:
> That fixed the problem! All three systems - chimaera, win7 and CentOS -
> now boot successfully.
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lts to true).
So - something got broke and was then fixed. It would be nice to know
what. But in the meantime - this definitely feels like progress :)
On Sun, 2022-02-13 at 21:05 +, Peter Duffy wrote:
> I've got an old box running CentOS 6.2 and Windows 7. Without going into
> details, this
On Mon, 2022-02-14 at 06:57 -0500, Curtis Maurand wrote:
> Wow. Nice piece of troubleshooting.
Thanks :) Not there yet though - still some way to go ;)
> Have you thought about virtualizing some of this? I have a windows 7
> machine that I virtualized a long time ago. I just move it from
is 2.6.32-696.16.1).
On Sun, 2022-02-13 at 22:56 +, Peter Duffy wrote:
> Hi Emanuel
>
> Thanks for that link. It's OK - I'm not hosting websites on my CentOS 6
> box! There are a number of reasons why I've been terrified of trying to
> upgrade this box up to now - and
> granting the four essential freedoms of free software when releasing
> software as something unethical which does harm to society).
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Emanuel Loos
>
> On 2/13/22 10:05 PM, Peter Duffy wrote:
> > I've got an old box running CentOS 6.2 and
I've got an old box running CentOS 6.2 and Windows 7. Without going into
details, this box is vital and I use it every day. Finally I decided
that I had to bite the bullet and upgrade the linux system, and I
decided to go for chimaera.
Built a new box from scratch and cloned all the disks, using
Thanks for the link to that - brilliant talk. I've always thought that
Brian Kernighan himself was the great communicator in the UNIX group - I
wonder whether "The C Programming Language" and "The Unix Programming
Environment" would have happened without his obvious ability to take
abstruse and
That's a neat idea. Good luck with developing it - keep us posted on how
it goes.
Reminds me a bit of something that occurred to me a long time ago, when
I was having to attend an endless stream of pointless, irrelevant,
boring meetings. I wondered about virtual meetings: I'd program a
"virtual
that it's relevant.
On Wed, 2021-12-01 at 21:03 -0500, Steve Litt wrote:
> Radisson via Dng said on Wed, 1 Dec 2021 21:55:13 +0100
>
> >Am 19.11.21 um 12:29 schrieb Peter Duffy:
> >> I've recently been asked to recommend an upgrade route for a number
> >> of linux
Thanks for posting that. I confess that I'd not seen it before. It does
indeed hit all the nails squarely on the heads.
On Sat, 2021-11-27 at 15:39 -0600, goli...@devuan.org wrote:
> On 2021-11-27 15:00, Mark Rousell wrote:
> > On 25/11/2021 22:57, Steve Litt wrote:
> >> Like I said in 2014,
> >>
f there existed a package which interposed itself between
systemd and the rest of the system, so that systemd could be trivially
replaced with another init subsystem, it would open up vast scope for
demonstrating that it was actually possible for linux to work without
systemd. The stakes couldn't b
It's a bit like the charlatans and fake doctors in past centuries.
They'd invent an illness, and then claim to have a remedy for it:
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/marthambles
On Thu, 2021-11-25 at 09:55 -0800, Syeed Ali wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Nov 2021 10:35:13 -0500
> Steve Litt wrote:
>
> > I
The trouble is that it's not just an OS for geeks - it's the OS on which
the vast majority of the internet runs.
If the sysadmins who maintain the servers which form the infrastructure
and backbone of the internet were to get de-skilled, that would be a
very big problem. (Although, I should say
Personally, if I want to look at a file without editing it, if it's
small, I'll use view - which gives me the vi interface with the file in
read-only mode. It means I get the same interface and facilities that I
use when actually editing files, and it's easy to remember and (usually)
automatic. If
e-a-little-help-with-systemd-shim/
On Thu, 2021-11-25 at 10:35 -0500, Steve Litt wrote:
> Peter Duffy said on Thu, 25 Nov 2021 13:51:18 +
>
> >I've said it before and I'll say it again. All this could have been
> >avoided - if systemd had been made optional from day 1. Peop
that LP and co. must see that as clearly as anyone
else.
On Fri, 2021-11-19 at 11:29 +, Peter Duffy wrote:
> I've recently been asked to recommend an upgrade route for a number of
> linux servers, and I proposed going to devuan. In response, I've had a
> concern raised which took me b
I've recently been asked to recommend an upgrade route for a number of
linux servers, and I proposed going to devuan. In response, I've had a
concern raised which took me by surprise. It was suggested that in the
future, it may not be possible to find staff who have the skills to
administer and
Good article - one of the best and most even-handed summaries of the
systemd position that I've read.
One issue is that he oversimplifies the position re. gnome: he doesn't
make it clear that it's gnome 3 which has co-dependencies with systemd,
and that some of the desktop environments that he
On Thu, 2020-10-01 at 11:31 +0200, Alessandro Vesely via Dng wrote:
> On Tue 29/Sep/2020 11:10:12 +0200 Simon Hobson wrote:
> > Alessandro Vesely via Dng wrote:
> >
> >>> I have no choice over the neighbours !
> >
> >> Don't buy overly cheap connections...
> >
> > Doesn't matter how much you
Thank you for that note on SPF - it clarified it for me in a way that
other documentation on this has failed to do up to now.
On Thu, 2020-10-01 at 00:07 -0700, Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting terryc (ter...@woa.com.au):
>
> > On Sun, 27 Sep 2020 17:20:06 +0200
> > Alessandro Vesely via Dng wrote:
On Fri, 2020-09-25 at 13:31 +0200, Tito via Dng wrote:
>
> Il 25/09/20 13:03, Peter Duffy ha scritto:
> > Apologies - this is probably off-topic, or at least veering off in that
> > direction. Also apologies if this has been addressed previously and I've
> > missed it
Apologies - this is probably off-topic, or at least veering off in that
direction. Also apologies if this has been addressed previously and I've
missed it - if so, I'd appreciate it if someone would point me at the
discussion.
Given the successful removal of systemd from debian, and the
On Mon, 2020-09-21 at 18:07 -0700, Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting marc (marc...@welz.org.za):
>
> > Hmm - that might require some background: I'd venture that most of
> > these scripts were written when sh was just a symlink to bash, and
> > dash didn't exist, nevermind as a debian package.
>
> But
On Tue, 2020-09-22 at 02:20 +0200, marc wrote:
> > One thing about this which strikes me as a bit ironic is debian's use of
> > the dash shell, made to be POSIX-compliant, and so causing endless
> > problems for scripts using bash's additional non-POSIX functionality,
> > but not specifying bash
estriction of personal liberty. Also, the "One
flew over the cuckoo's nest" sense of the sane being locked up in an
asylum run by lunatics.
On Mon, 2020-09-21 at 13:34 +0100, Peter Duffy wrote:
> Band-aid or straitjacket? (Latter probably appropriate in all senses of
> the word ;) )
>
One thing about this which strikes me as a bit ironic is debian's use of
the dash shell, made to be POSIX-compliant, and so causing endless
problems for scripts using bash's additional non-POSIX functionality,
but not specifying bash explicitly in the shebang line.
On Sat, 2020-09-12 at 16:28
Band-aid or straitjacket? (Latter probably appropriate in all senses of
the word ;) )
On Sun, 2020-09-13 at 21:22 -0700, Bruce Perens via Dng wrote:
> The problem for me is that I would rather work on new stuff. Systemd
> and so on are symptoms of the Unix design not really being a good fit
> for
(Apologies for restating that - I thought that my original mention of it
hadn't made the list for some reason. I now see that it did.)
On Fri, 2020-05-22 at 10:19 +0100, Peter Duffy wrote:
> (There's a brilliant moment in "The Taking of Pe
te:
> On Thu, 21 May 2020 10:59:15 +0100
> Peter Duffy wrote:
>
> > I think that the thing that I found tantalising was the idea of
> > sniffing what systemd tried to do, and then deciding whether or not
> > to do it,
>
> Many have tried this. Web search "usel
nit system, with a
distillation of (hopefully) the best bits of all the init systems which
had used it.
I totally agree re. PID1 and the need for simplicity. Maybe I should
just get out more (eventually, anyway ;) )
On Wed, 2020-05-20 at 18:45 -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Tue, 19 May 2020 10:29:02 +0100
> Pe
). But there's something tantalising about it.
On Mon, 2020-05-18 at 12:04 +0100, Peter Duffy wrote:
> One of the things which always baffles me about systemd was that right
> from the word go, there was something which would have nipped in the bud
> all the controversy, pain, recriminations,
Thanks for the heads up on that - fascinating article.
One of the things which always baffles me about systemd was that right
from the word go, there was something which would have nipped in the bud
all the controversy, pain, recriminations, etc. etc. Make systemd
optional (so that, for example,
It's been pointed out to me that when I posted about my work on the
waagent package, I accidentally gatecrashed another thread.
Apologies for that - I'll try to do better in future ...
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(Apologies if I've posted this to the wrong list - shall I repost it to
the devuan-dev list?)
On Wed, 2020-04-29 at 15:21 +0100, Peter Duffy wrote:
> I'm currently setting up a virtualbox image based on Devuan ASCII, for
> eventual upload to azure as a base image for creating VMs.
>
&
I'm currently setting up a virtualbox image based on Devuan ASCII, for
eventual upload to azure as a base image for creating VMs.
I've hit some problems with the waagent package in the Devuan
repositories - basically they boil down to:
1) the python function platform.linux_distribution()
I agree. For me, the thing which has always put me off above all other
things was the fact that systems running systemd often did not shut down
cleanly. Manageable if it's a laptop on your desk and you have access to
the on/off button and the power cord. Not so good if the box is a
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