Re: [DNG] Current status of Gnome desktop?
Hi, On 25/2/19 9:03, KatolaZ wrote: On Sun, Feb 24, 2019 at 06:39:09PM -0600,goli...@dyne.org wrote: [cut] Also, I see no need to take this off list. As I understand it, accessibility is one of the pillars of devuan. Feel free to ask if you can't hunt down answers to other questions on your own, and I'll do my best to help. Greg Just for completeness, I'll mention the minimal-live isos - https://files.roundr.devuan.org/devuan_ascii/minimal-live/ - which were created specifically for those with accessibility issues with feedback from the speakup community. Just as a further clarification: please consider that minimal-live does not offer any GUI access, only a command-line interface. HND KatolaZ Gnome is not installable in devuan so far, due to the (strong?) dependendency of gnome-core on systemd. Cheers, Aitor. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Current status of Gnome desktop?
On Mon, Feb 25, 2019 at 11:16:08AM +0100, Antony Stone wrote: > On Monday 25 February 2019 at 00:58:31, Gregory Nowak wrote: > > > On Sun, Feb 24, 2019 at 03:56:33PM +0100, Antony Stone wrote: > > > I need to set up a machine for someone with Orca for speech output, > > > therefore it needs to run the Gnome desktop. > > > > Uhhhm, no, it doesn't. Gnome works with xfce and mate, though mate > > provides a more accessible experience for orca users than xfce does. > > I'll assume that you meant to say that Orca works with xfce and mate, Good catch. Yes, I did indeed mean to say orca, not gnome. Greg -- web site: http://www.gregn.net gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc skype: gregn1 (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first) If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your contacts. -- Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-mana...@eu.org ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Current status of Gnome desktop?
On Monday 25 February 2019 at 00:58:31, Gregory Nowak wrote: > On Sun, Feb 24, 2019 at 03:56:33PM +0100, Antony Stone wrote: > > I need to set up a machine for someone with Orca for speech output, > > therefore it needs to run the Gnome desktop. > > Uhhhm, no, it doesn't. Gnome works with xfce and mate, though mate > provides a more accessible experience for orca users than xfce does. I'll assume that you meant to say that Orca works with xfce and mate, and thanks - I didn't know that - I had always thought it was tied quite closely into Gnome, so it's good to know I don't need that environment after all (which I'm personally not keen on anyway, but would accept it if it gives me the speech output needed). > I'm not yet running an Ascii box with a GUI. However, if the Ascii > install is anything like Jessie, which I seem to recall it is, then > you just need to press "s" and when the boot menu comes > up. This will start a text install with speech. In fact it's a standard option on the installer menu, so I can simply select it from there. > The beauty of doing it this way is that it will setup everything for use > with orca if you choose a desktop during the install. Ah, neat, I hadn't realised it would make things easier than installing Orca later; nice tip. > Also note that if you use the accessible install, the installed system > will have both speakup for the text console installed, as well as orca > for the GUI. This also includes pulseaudio, which doesn't play nice > with speakup/espeakup. This is because espeakup expects to access the > audio hardware through alsa, while by default, speech-dispatcher > expects to access the hardware through pulseaudio. There are a few > work arounds, but the simplest is to purge pulseaudio, or at least > stop it from running at all, and configuring speech-dispatcher to use > libao through spd-conf(1). You can also do this by configuring things > in /etc/speech-dispatcher/speechd.conf, and killing > speech-dispatcher. If you can, it's best to reboot whatever > configuration method you used, since there are sometimes problems with > speech-dispatcher coming up and using the new configuration. I believe > debian wiki's accessibility page mentions this too, but I could be > wrong on that. > > Also, I see no need to take this off list. As I understand it, > accessibility is one of the pillars of devuan. Feel free to ask if you > can't hunt down answers to other questions on your own, and I'll do my > best to help. Okay, thanks very much - I'll give this a go and see what I can end up with. The person I'm doing this for is (a) not completely blind, just very visually impaired, and (b) not planning to use the computer for much more than document editing, so the variety of software which needs to be speech-enabled is pretty limited. I'm thinking that that's going to make things easier for me. Thanks, Antony. -- If my advice was worth anything, I wouldn't just give it away. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Current status of Gnome desktop?
On Sun, Feb 24, 2019 at 06:39:09PM -0600, goli...@dyne.org wrote: [cut] > > > > Also, I see no need to take this off list. As I understand it, > > accessibility is one of the pillars of devuan. Feel free to ask if you > > can't hunt down answers to other questions on your own, and I'll do my > > best to help. > > > > Greg > > Just for completeness, I'll mention the minimal-live isos - > https://files.roundr.devuan.org/devuan_ascii/minimal-live/ - which were > created specifically for those with accessibility issues with feedback from > the speakup community. > Just as a further clarification: please consider that minimal-live does not offer any GUI access, only a command-line interface. HND KatolaZ -- [ ~.,_ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - Devuan -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ "+. katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it ] [ @) http://kalos.mine.nu --- Devuan GNU + Linux User ] [ @@) http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia -- GPG: 0B5F062F ] [ (@@@) Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ ] signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Current status of Gnome desktop?
On 2019-02-24 17:58, Gregory Nowak wrote: On Sun, Feb 24, 2019 at 03:56:33PM +0100, Antony Stone wrote: I need to set up a machine for someone with Orca for speech output, therefore it needs to run the Gnome desktop. Uhhhm, no, it doesn't. Gnome works with xfce and mate, though mate provides a more accessible experience for orca users than xfce does. I'd very much prefer to do this without systemd if I can. No problem, just choose one of the two desktops mentioned above during the devuan install. Therefore I'm wondering what the current status of doing this on Devuan (preferably Ascii) is. I'm not yet running an Ascii box with a GUI. However, if the Ascii install is anything like Jessie, which I seem to recall it is, then you just need to press "s" and when the boot menu comes up. This will start a text install with speech. The beauty of doing it this way is that it will setup everything for use with orca if you choose a desktop during the install. You can do the install without speech like you would do for yourself, and install gnome-orca after, but there are some specific steps that need to be done for orca to come up after the install. I believe the steps are described on the debian wiki accessibility page. https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/migrate-to-ascii and https://www.heise.de/select/ix/2018/8/1533453649894916 both tell me that I can't run Gnome at all, so I'm hoping that these are out of date. Correct, gnome is tangled with systemd, so you can't run gnome without systemd. If the person you're installing this for really needs gnome specifically, then I'd suggest you install debian for that individual. Doing a fresh installation of Ascii doesn't offer me Gnome as a desktop envoironment choice. Correct as mentioned above. However, installing without a graphical environment does then allow me to install "gnome" and "gnome-orca" as packages, which suggests to me that it is now supported. Yes, with xfce or mate as mentioned above. Rebooting just leaves me with the standard text terminal login prompt, though. Right, as expected without a desktop environment installed. So, in summary: a) can I use the Gnome desktop on Devuan Ascii? No. b) if yes, how do I get the machine to present a graphical login prompt on startup? If anyone has any additional comments specifically related to using the Orca screenreader for speech (not Braille) output, by all means email me offlist. Slim isn't accessible, so install lightdm and lightdm-gtk-greeter as the login manager. some people have also had issues with orca and speech-dispatcher not playing nice, while others didn't have these issues. You'll know if you have them if orca and speech-dispatcher are running, but there is no speech after login. I think I described how to resolve this somewhere on this list. If you can't find that post, and seem to have the mentioned issue, I'll either dig up the link to it myself, or will provide a brief recap of what needs to be done. Also note that if you use the accessible install, the installed system will have both speakup for the text console installed, as well as orca for the GUI. This also includes pulseaudio, which doesn't play nice with speakup/espeakup. This is because espeakup expects to access the audio hardware through alsa, while by default, speech-dispatcher expects to access the hardware through pulseaudio. There are a few work arounds, but the simplest is to purge pulseaudio, or at least stop it from running at all, and configuring speech-dispatcher to use libao through spd-conf(1). You can also do this by configuring things in /etc/speech-dispatcher/speechd.conf, and killing speech-dispatcher. If you can, it's best to reboot whatever configuration method you used, since there are sometimes problems with speech-dispatcher coming up and using the new configuration. I believe debian wiki's accessibility page mentions this too, but I could be wrong on that. Also, I see no need to take this off list. As I understand it, accessibility is one of the pillars of devuan. Feel free to ask if you can't hunt down answers to other questions on your own, and I'll do my best to help. Greg Just for completeness, I'll mention the minimal-live isos - https://files.roundr.devuan.org/devuan_ascii/minimal-live/ - which were created specifically for those with accessibility issues with feedback from the speakup community. golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Current status of Gnome desktop?
On Sun, Feb 24, 2019 at 03:56:33PM +0100, Antony Stone wrote: > I need to set up a machine for someone with Orca for speech output, therefore > it needs to run the Gnome desktop. Uhhhm, no, it doesn't. Gnome works with xfce and mate, though mate provides a more accessible experience for orca users than xfce does. > I'd very much prefer to do this without > systemd if I can. No problem, just choose one of the two desktops mentioned above during the devuan install. > > Therefore I'm wondering what the current status of doing this on Devuan > (preferably Ascii) is. I'm not yet running an Ascii box with a GUI. However, if the Ascii install is anything like Jessie, which I seem to recall it is, then you just need to press "s" and when the boot menu comes up. This will start a text install with speech. The beauty of doing it this way is that it will setup everything for use with orca if you choose a desktop during the install. You can do the install without speech like you would do for yourself, and install gnome-orca after, but there are some specific steps that need to be done for orca to come up after the install. I believe the steps are described on the debian wiki accessibility page. > > https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/migrate-to-ascii and > https://www.heise.de/select/ix/2018/8/1533453649894916 both tell me that I > can't run Gnome at all, so I'm hoping that these are out of date. Correct, gnome is tangled with systemd, so you can't run gnome without systemd. If the person you're installing this for really needs gnome specifically, then I'd suggest you install debian for that individual. > > Doing a fresh installation of Ascii doesn't offer me Gnome as a desktop > envoironment choice. Correct as mentioned above. > > However, installing without a graphical environment does then allow me to > install "gnome" and "gnome-orca" as packages, which suggests to me that it is > now supported. Yes, with xfce or mate as mentioned above. > > Rebooting just leaves me with the standard text terminal login prompt, though. Right, as expected without a desktop environment installed. > > So, in summary: > > a) can I use the Gnome desktop on Devuan Ascii? No. > > b) if yes, how do I get the machine to present a graphical login prompt on > startup? > > If anyone has any additional comments specifically related to using the Orca > screenreader for speech (not Braille) output, by all means email me offlist. > Slim isn't accessible, so install lightdm and lightdm-gtk-greeter as the login manager. some people have also had issues with orca and speech-dispatcher not playing nice, while others didn't have these issues. You'll know if you have them if orca and speech-dispatcher are running, but there is no speech after login. I think I described how to resolve this somewhere on this list. If you can't find that post, and seem to have the mentioned issue, I'll either dig up the link to it myself, or will provide a brief recap of what needs to be done. Also note that if you use the accessible install, the installed system will have both speakup for the text console installed, as well as orca for the GUI. This also includes pulseaudio, which doesn't play nice with speakup/espeakup. This is because espeakup expects to access the audio hardware through alsa, while by default, speech-dispatcher expects to access the hardware through pulseaudio. There are a few work arounds, but the simplest is to purge pulseaudio, or at least stop it from running at all, and configuring speech-dispatcher to use libao through spd-conf(1). You can also do this by configuring things in /etc/speech-dispatcher/speechd.conf, and killing speech-dispatcher. If you can, it's best to reboot whatever configuration method you used, since there are sometimes problems with speech-dispatcher coming up and using the new configuration. I believe debian wiki's accessibility page mentions this too, but I could be wrong on that. Also, I see no need to take this off list. As I understand it, accessibility is one of the pillars of devuan. Feel free to ask if you can't hunt down answers to other questions on your own, and I'll do my best to help. Greg -- web site: http://www.gregn.net gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc skype: gregn1 (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first) If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your contacts. -- Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-mana...@eu.org ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Current status of Gnome desktop?
Hi. I need to set up a machine for someone with Orca for speech output, therefore it needs to run the Gnome desktop. I'd very much prefer to do this without systemd if I can. Therefore I'm wondering what the current status of doing this on Devuan (preferably Ascii) is. https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/migrate-to-ascii and https://www.heise.de/select/ix/2018/8/1533453649894916 both tell me that I can't run Gnome at all, so I'm hoping that these are out of date. Doing a fresh installation of Ascii doesn't offer me Gnome as a desktop envoironment choice. However, installing without a graphical environment does then allow me to install "gnome" and "gnome-orca" as packages, which suggests to me that it is now supported. Rebooting just leaves me with the standard text terminal login prompt, though. So, in summary: a) can I use the Gnome desktop on Devuan Ascii? b) if yes, how do I get the machine to present a graphical login prompt on startup? If anyone has any additional comments specifically related to using the Orca screenreader for speech (not Braille) output, by all means email me offlist. Thanks, Antony. -- There's no such thing as bad weather - only the wrong clothes. - Billy Connolly Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
