Re: [DNG] How long should I expect to wait for openrc to be ready in devuan ascii

[Arnt Karlsen]

On Sun, 2 Jul 2017 14:21:04 -0400, zap wrote in message 
<4ab545b8-d9ba-e8d4-df1e-fa8a0c73e...@posteo.de>:

> On 07/02/2017 11:09 AM, Svante Signell wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Seems like max file size is 40k for the mailing list, so the mail to
> > the list is blocked. zap, did the attached files reach your private
> > mail?  
> 
> Well, I think I received them, unless the ones you sent got shrunk. ;)

..one easy way to make sure, is list those attached file's checksums, 
so chey can be chk'ed with e.g. md5sum -c upwards, for "the works",
'aptitude install jacksum' and play around. ;o)

-- 
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.
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Re: [DNG] How long should I expect to wait for openrc to be ready in devuan ascii

[zap]

On 07/02/2017 04:25 PM, Svante Signell wrote:
> On Sun, 2017-07-02 at 14:51 -0400, zap wrote:
>> I appear to be getting conflicts, so I must need sysvinit-utils in
>> deb
>> form.
>> this probably is the last thing I need at the moment to make it
>> work...
> Sorry, but you have to show us what conflicts you see... And your
> /etc/apt/sources.list, and your commands used.

That makes sense my bad... I just got to the last step. I just have to
install initscripts. I figured a way out somehow? gdebi isn't as
reliable I guess..

Edit: I finally got it installed,

at last...

Tell me something though, is it up to testing quality standards yet?
regardless, though thank you for being paitent, this was kind of
confusing... heh.  dpkg > gdebi 

for some reason gdebi must have been causing failures aka... hehe.

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Re: [DNG] How long should I expect to wait for openrc to be ready in devuan ascii

[Svante Signell]

On Sun, 2017-07-02 at 14:51 -0400, zap wrote:
> 
> I appear to be getting conflicts, so I must need sysvinit-utils in
> deb
> form.
> this probably is the last thing I need at the moment to make it
> work...

Sorry, but you have to show us what conflicts you see... And your
/etc/apt/sources.list, and your commands used.

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Re: [DNG] How long should I expect to wait for openrc to be ready in devuan ascii

[zap]

On 07/02/2017 02:51 PM, zap wrote:
>
> I appear to be getting conflicts, so I must need sysvinit-utils in deb
> form.
> this probably is the last thing I need at the moment to make it work...
Actually, sysvinit-utils and util-linux refuse to upgrade.

I keep getting a dumb error that says:

Error: no longer provides util-linux
>
> On 07/02/2017 11:09 AM, Svante Signell wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Seems like max file size is 40k for the mailing list, so the mail to
>> the list is blocked. zap, did the attached files reach your private
>> mail?
>>
>> On Sun, 2017-07-02 at 16:59 +0200, Svante Signell wrote:
>>> On Sat, 2017-07-01 at 19:54 -0400, zap wrote:
>> Hi zap,
>>
>> As I wrote earlier, you can install openrc by:
>> 0) Enable ascii in /etc/apt/sources.list
>> deb http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged ascii main
>>
>> 1) add to /etc/apt/sources.list
>>  deb http://packages.devuan.org/devuan/ ascii-proposed main
>>
>> 2) apt-get update
>>
>> 3) apt-get download sysvinit-utils
>>
>> 4) Build* and install libfdisk1 and util-linux
>> (2.29.21+devuan1).
>> If
>> you are in i386 I can send you them. Otherwise see below.
>>
>> dpkg -i libfdisk1_2.29.2-1+devuan1_i386.deb util-linux_2.29.2-
>> 1+devuan1_i386.deb sysvinit-utils_2.88dsf-59.9+devuan2_i386.deb
>>
>> 5) apt-get upgrade: Installs latest initscripts:
>> initscripts (2.88dsf-59.9+devuan2)
>>
>> 6) apt-get -s install openrc
>> Check that all is OK, then remove the -s
>> The following additional packages will be installed:
>>   libeinfo1 librc1
>> The following packages will be REMOVED:
>>   sysv-rc
> Okay, this is a better way to know how to do so. I didn't
> understand the
> instructions before. that's all... thanks
 Actually I have to make an edit, I am using an x86_64 bit
 machine.  and
 some of the packages in the list for needed, debian/control, I
 cannot
 find. odd though it may be...
>>> Attached are the needed .debs for amd64. Just follow the instructions
>>> above. (I hope the attachment limit is too low, file sizes are 221 kB
>>> and 979 kB)
>>>
>>> In point 3) you might have to add -t ascii-proposed to get the right
>>> version. 
>>>
>>> In point 4) do
>>> dpkg -i libfdisk1_2.29.2-1+devuan1_amd64.deb util-linux_2.29.2-\
>>> 1+devuan1_amd64.deb sysvinit-utils_2.88dsf-59.9+devuan2_amd64.deb
>>>
>>> In point 5) do
>>> apt-get install initscripts -t ascii-proposed
>>> or
>>> apt-get upgrade -t ascii-proposed
>>>
>>> HTH
>>>
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Re: [DNG] How long should I expect to wait for openrc to be ready in devuan ascii

[zap]

I appear to be getting conflicts, so I must need sysvinit-utils in deb
form.
this probably is the last thing I need at the moment to make it work...


On 07/02/2017 11:09 AM, Svante Signell wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Seems like max file size is 40k for the mailing list, so the mail to
> the list is blocked. zap, did the attached files reach your private
> mail?
>
> On Sun, 2017-07-02 at 16:59 +0200, Svante Signell wrote:
>> On Sat, 2017-07-01 at 19:54 -0400, zap wrote:
>>>
> Hi zap,
>
> As I wrote earlier, you can install openrc by:
> 0) Enable ascii in /etc/apt/sources.list
> deb http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged ascii main
>
> 1) add to /etc/apt/sources.list
>  deb http://packages.devuan.org/devuan/ ascii-proposed main
>
> 2) apt-get update
>
> 3) apt-get download sysvinit-utils
>
> 4) Build* and install libfdisk1 and util-linux
> (2.29.21+devuan1).
> If
> you are in i386 I can send you them. Otherwise see below.
>
> dpkg -i libfdisk1_2.29.2-1+devuan1_i386.deb util-linux_2.29.2-
> 1+devuan1_i386.deb sysvinit-utils_2.88dsf-59.9+devuan2_i386.deb
>
> 5) apt-get upgrade: Installs latest initscripts:
> initscripts (2.88dsf-59.9+devuan2)
>
> 6) apt-get -s install openrc
> Check that all is OK, then remove the -s
> The following additional packages will be installed:
>   libeinfo1 librc1
> The following packages will be REMOVED:
>   sysv-rc
 Okay, this is a better way to know how to do so. I didn't
 understand the
 instructions before. that's all... thanks
>>> Actually I have to make an edit, I am using an x86_64 bit
>>> machine.  and
>>> some of the packages in the list for needed, debian/control, I
>>> cannot
>>> find. odd though it may be...
>> Attached are the needed .debs for amd64. Just follow the instructions
>> above. (I hope the attachment limit is too low, file sizes are 221 kB
>> and 979 kB)
>>
>> In point 3) you might have to add -t ascii-proposed to get the right
>> version. 
>>
>> In point 4) do
>> dpkg -i libfdisk1_2.29.2-1+devuan1_amd64.deb util-linux_2.29.2-\
>> 1+devuan1_amd64.deb sysvinit-utils_2.88dsf-59.9+devuan2_amd64.deb
>>
>> In point 5) do
>> apt-get install initscripts -t ascii-proposed
>> or
>> apt-get upgrade -t ascii-proposed
>>
>> HTH
>>

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Re: [DNG] How long should I expect to wait for openrc to be ready in devuan ascii

[zap]

On 07/02/2017 11:09 AM, Svante Signell wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Seems like max file size is 40k for the mailing list, so the mail to
> the list is blocked. zap, did the attached files reach your private
> mail?

Well, I think I received them, unless the ones you sent got shrunk. ;)

> On Sun, 2017-07-02 at 16:59 +0200, Svante Signell wrote:
>> On Sat, 2017-07-01 at 19:54 -0400, zap wrote:
>>>
> Hi zap,
>
> As I wrote earlier, you can install openrc by:
> 0) Enable ascii in /etc/apt/sources.list
> deb http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged ascii main
>
> 1) add to /etc/apt/sources.list
>  deb http://packages.devuan.org/devuan/ ascii-proposed main
>
> 2) apt-get update
>
> 3) apt-get download sysvinit-utils
>
> 4) Build* and install libfdisk1 and util-linux
> (2.29.21+devuan1).
> If
> you are in i386 I can send you them. Otherwise see below.
>
> dpkg -i libfdisk1_2.29.2-1+devuan1_i386.deb util-linux_2.29.2-
> 1+devuan1_i386.deb sysvinit-utils_2.88dsf-59.9+devuan2_i386.deb
>
> 5) apt-get upgrade: Installs latest initscripts:
> initscripts (2.88dsf-59.9+devuan2)
>
> 6) apt-get -s install openrc
> Check that all is OK, then remove the -s
> The following additional packages will be installed:
>   libeinfo1 librc1
> The following packages will be REMOVED:
>   sysv-rc
 Okay, this is a better way to know how to do so. I didn't
 understand the
 instructions before. that's all... thanks
>>> Actually I have to make an edit, I am using an x86_64 bit
>>> machine.  and
>>> some of the packages in the list for needed, debian/control, I
>>> cannot
>>> find. odd though it may be...
>> Attached are the needed .debs for amd64. Just follow the instructions
>> above. (I hope the attachment limit is too low, file sizes are 221 kB
>> and 979 kB)
>>
>> In point 3) you might have to add -t ascii-proposed to get the right
>> version. 
>>
>> In point 4) do
>> dpkg -i libfdisk1_2.29.2-1+devuan1_amd64.deb util-linux_2.29.2-\
>> 1+devuan1_amd64.deb sysvinit-utils_2.88dsf-59.9+devuan2_amd64.deb
>>
>> In point 5) do
>> apt-get install initscripts -t ascii-proposed
>> or
>> apt-get upgrade -t ascii-proposed
>>
>> HTH
>>

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Re: [DNG] How long should I expect to wait for openrc to be ready in devuan ascii

[Svante Signell]

Hi,

Seems like max file size is 40k for the mailing list, so the mail to
the list is blocked. zap, did the attached files reach your private
mail?

On Sun, 2017-07-02 at 16:59 +0200, Svante Signell wrote:
> On Sat, 2017-07-01 at 19:54 -0400, zap wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > > > Hi zap,
> > > > 
> > > > As I wrote earlier, you can install openrc by:
> > > > 0) Enable ascii in /etc/apt/sources.list
> > > > deb http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged ascii main
> > > > 
> > > > 1) add to /etc/apt/sources.list
> > > >  deb http://packages.devuan.org/devuan/ ascii-proposed main
> > > > 
> > > > 2) apt-get update
> > > > 
> > > > 3) apt-get download sysvinit-utils
> > > > 
> > > > 4) Build* and install libfdisk1 and util-linux
> > > > (2.29.21+devuan1).
> > > > If
> > > > you are in i386 I can send you them. Otherwise see below.
> > > > 
> > > > dpkg -i libfdisk1_2.29.2-1+devuan1_i386.deb util-linux_2.29.2-
> > > > 1+devuan1_i386.deb sysvinit-utils_2.88dsf-59.9+devuan2_i386.deb
> > > > 
> > > > 5) apt-get upgrade: Installs latest initscripts:
> > > > initscripts (2.88dsf-59.9+devuan2)
> > > > 
> > > > 6) apt-get -s install openrc
> > > > Check that all is OK, then remove the -s
> > > > The following additional packages will be installed:
> > > >   libeinfo1 librc1
> > > > The following packages will be REMOVED:
> > > >   sysv-rc
> > > Okay, this is a better way to know how to do so. I didn't
> > > understand the
> > > instructions before. that's all... thanks
> > 
> > Actually I have to make an edit, I am using an x86_64 bit
> > machine.  and
> > some of the packages in the list for needed, debian/control, I
> > cannot
> > find. odd though it may be...
> 
> Attached are the needed .debs for amd64. Just follow the instructions
> above. (I hope the attachment limit is too low, file sizes are 221 kB
> and 979 kB)
> 
> In point 3) you might have to add -t ascii-proposed to get the right
> version. 
> 
> In point 4) do
> dpkg -i libfdisk1_2.29.2-1+devuan1_amd64.deb util-linux_2.29.2-\
> 1+devuan1_amd64.deb sysvinit-utils_2.88dsf-59.9+devuan2_amd64.deb
> 
> In point 5) do
> apt-get install initscripts -t ascii-proposed
> or
> apt-get upgrade -t ascii-proposed
> 
> HTH
> 
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Re: [DNG] How long should I expect to wait for openrc to be ready in devuan ascii

[zap]

On 06/30/2017 04:21 PM, zap wrote:
>
> On 06/30/2017 11:21 AM, Svante Signell wrote:
>> On Thu, 2017-06-29 at 19:34 -0400, zap wrote:
>>> not really complaining for the most part. But I am curious that's
>>> all.
>>>
>> Hi zap,
>>
>> As I wrote earlier, you can install openrc by:
>> 0) Enable ascii in /etc/apt/sources.list
>> deb http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged ascii main
>>
>> 1) add to /etc/apt/sources.list
>>  deb http://packages.devuan.org/devuan/ ascii-proposed main
>>
>> 2) apt-get update
>>
>> 3) apt-get download sysvinit-utils
>>
>> 4) Build* and install libfdisk1 and util-linux (2.29.21+devuan1). If
>> you are in i386 I can send you them. Otherwise see below.
>>
>> dpkg -i libfdisk1_2.29.2-1+devuan1_i386.deb util-linux_2.29.2-
>> 1+devuan1_i386.deb sysvinit-utils_2.88dsf-59.9+devuan2_i386.deb
>>
>> 5) apt-get upgrade: Installs latest initscripts:
>> initscripts (2.88dsf-59.9+devuan2)
>>
>> 6) apt-get -s install openrc
>> Check that all is OK, then remove the -s
>> The following additional packages will be installed:
>>   libeinfo1 librc1
>> The following packages will be REMOVED:
>>   sysv-rc
>>
>> To build util-linux for your arch:
>> 1) Add to sources.list
>> deb-src http://packages.devuan.org/devuan/ ascii-proposed main
>>
>> 2) Download sources
>> dget https://packages.devuan.org/devuan/pool/main/u/util-linux/util-lin
>> ux_2.29.2-1+devuan1.dsc
>>
>> 3) Unpack sources
>> dpkg-source -x util-linux_2.29.2-1+devuan1.dsc
>>
>> 4) cd util-linux-2.29.2/
>> Install all packages needed in debian/control as root:
>> see Build-Depends: entry
>>
>> 5) dpkg-buildpackage 2>&1 | tee buildpackage-2.29.2-1+devuan1.log
>> (see above at point 4)
> Okay, this is a better way to know how to do so. I didn't understand the
> instructions before. that's all... thanks
Actually I have to make an edit, I am using an x86_64 bit machine.  and
some of the packages in the list for needed, debian/control, I cannot
find. odd though it may be...
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Re: [DNG] How long should I expect to wait for openrc to be ready in devuan ascii

[zap]

On 07/01/2017 05:32 AM, Svante Signell wrote:
> On Fri, 2017-06-30 at 20:12 -0400, zap wrote:
>> It is a little too confusing trying to install openrc at the moment
>> so I
>> will pass for now...
>>
>> It is just a shame that the runit-init package was taken down...
> The instructions are crystal clear...

There were parts that didn't make sense to me though. I am using amd64
btw and I could not find all the requirements of this,
maybe it is me,  but I cannot find all the packages required in:
debian/control as addressed below:

4) cd util-linux-2.29.2/
Install all packages needed in debian/control as root:
see Build-Depends: entry



> (And btw: Daniel Reurich is working hard to get util-linux built)
>
> Regarding runit-init Steve Litt will hopefully provide a Devuan package
> in due time. At least he is promoting it a lot.

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Re: [DNG] How long should I expect to wait for openrc to be ready in devuan ascii

[zap]

On 07/01/2017 04:20 AM, Alessandro Selli wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Jul 2017 at 00:24:59 +0200
> Didier Kryn  wrote:
>
>> Le 30/06/2017 à 23:30, Vincent Bentley a écrit :
>>> Along time ago, well designed and well behaved software could be
>>> recognised by the number of years passed without changes. I worked at
>>> one place that was proud of release version birthdays.  
>>  Agreed. That's why I'm always bothered with the fast release pace 
>> of some essential pieces of software, with the fastest being the GCC and 
>> the Linux kernel.
>   Well, this is understandable: both the compiler and the kernel must keep
> up with the frantic rollout of new hardware from many vendors.  You don't
> have to upgrade if you don't need support for the laters pieces of silicon
> the industry has churned out the past month.  What matters is that older
> releases are still maintained and that they work, of course.  From time to
> time support for a new protocol/filesystem is merged, too.  

> This is not the
> case of init systems, as they are not supposed to be sensitive to the
> particular hardware/filesystem they are running on.  I wonder why zap feels
> the need of a "regularly updated" init, are there issues in the current
> Devuan init that he feels are not being adequately addressed?
>
I was not aware of the lack of sensitivity for init systems.

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Re: [DNG] How long should I expect to wait for openrc to be ready in devuan ascii

[Miroslav Rovis]

On 170630-13:16-0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Jun 2017 14:20:08 +
> Miroslav Rovis  wrote:
> 
> > On 170629-19:34-0400, zap wrote:
> > > not really complaining for the most part. But I am curious that's
> > > all.  
> > I wish I knew better, but, for a simple question of mine today (see
> > my other email of today, and the links to dev1galaxy.org post of
> > mine) I only after some time waiting got a reply...
> 
> Would it be possible for you to install OpenRC from upstream source? I
> know that's easily doable with runit or s6, but I know little about
> OpenRC.
>  
Not without extended work. I'm still using Palemoon that I compiled a month and
ten days ago, and grsec-kernel a month and twenty days ago.

Those really need updating... 

And on top of that, I have these months been so unimaginative to, regardless of
knowing well previously about it (I even wrote about it for newbies on grsec
forums), only today remembered I could use corsac's grsec-kernel packages
(
How to install TorBrowser in Ascii? NOT from Stretch backports!
https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=773#p2731
)...

And I have been trying to fix:
xserver won't start with ATI (AMD) card with xserver-org 1.19.3-1
https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=781 
for some two or three days now... And am nowhere near any solutions..

I can compile things, and more, but it's extended, prolonged, slow work, as I
have to figure out for real, for myself, lots of details about how to do it...

I've only been using OpenRC, not at all modifying it (i.e. developing in any
way), but the compilations in Gentoo are kind of automatic. It's just emerge
. It takes horrible time in comparison to apt-installing, and is
probably easier for patching packages, or modifying them, then in Devuan, but
as far as more advanced usage, the mere compiling with emerge does not teach a
user so very much... Well it does teach you, because you often stand by and
watch... but not soo very much... :)

Regards!
-- 
Miroslav Rovis
Zagreb, Croatia
https://www.CroatiaFidelis.hr


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Re: [DNG] How long should I expect to wait for openrc to be ready in devuan ascii

[Didier Kryn]

Le 01/07/2017 à 10:20, Alessandro Selli a écrit :

On Sat, 1 Jul 2017 at 00:24:59 +0200
Didier Kryn  wrote:


Le 30/06/2017 à 23:30, Vincent Bentley a écrit :

Along time ago, well designed and well behaved software could be
recognised by the number of years passed without changes. I worked at
one place that was proud of release version birthdays.

  Agreed. That's why I'm always bothered with the fast release pace
of some essential pieces of software, with the fastest being the GCC and
the Linux kernel.

   Well, this is understandable: both the compiler and the kernel must keep
up with the frantic rollout of new hardware from many vendors.  You don't
have to upgrade if you don't need support for the laters pieces of silicon
the industry has churned out the past month.  What matters is that older
releases are still maintained and that they work, of course.  From time to
time support for a new protocol/filesystem is merged, too.  This is not the
case of init systems, as they are not supposed to be sensitive to the
particular hardware/filesystem they are running on.  I wonder why zap feels
the need of a "regularly updated" init, are there issues in the current
Devuan init that he feels are not being adequately addressed?

New hardware and language evolution are good reasons to 
continuously make limited upgrades, but these folks ar continuously 
reworking the internals of their machines, like if they were never happy 
with what they've done six months before - it's not only bug correction. 
They preserve the external API but change all the rest. I tell that 
because, a decade ago, I tried to write driver modules but the internal 
kernel API was never in sync with the doc, while there was a new edition 
of the doc every year; I stopped wasting my time. This might be a reason 
why hardware vendors don't provide drivers for Linux: big effort for a 
little market.


Didier

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Re: [DNG] How long should I expect to wait for openrc to be ready in devuan ascii

[Svante Signell]

On Fri, 2017-06-30 at 20:12 -0400, zap wrote:
> It is a little too confusing trying to install openrc at the moment
> so I
> will pass for now...
> 
> It is just a shame that the runit-init package was taken down...

The instructions are crystal clear...
(And btw: Daniel Reurich is working hard to get util-linux built)

Regarding runit-init Steve Litt will hopefully provide a Devuan package
in due time. At least he is promoting it a lot.
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Re: [DNG] How long should I expect to wait for openrc to be ready in devuan ascii

[Alessandro Selli]

On Sat, 1 Jul 2017 at 00:24:59 +0200
Didier Kryn  wrote:

> Le 30/06/2017 à 23:30, Vincent Bentley a écrit :
> > Along time ago, well designed and well behaved software could be
> > recognised by the number of years passed without changes. I worked at
> > one place that was proud of release version birthdays.  
> 
>  Agreed. That's why I'm always bothered with the fast release pace 
> of some essential pieces of software, with the fastest being the GCC and 
> the Linux kernel.

  Well, this is understandable: both the compiler and the kernel must keep
up with the frantic rollout of new hardware from many vendors.  You don't
have to upgrade if you don't need support for the laters pieces of silicon
the industry has churned out the past month.  What matters is that older
releases are still maintained and that they work, of course.  From time to
time support for a new protocol/filesystem is merged, too.  This is not the
case of init systems, as they are not supposed to be sensitive to the
particular hardware/filesystem they are running on.  I wonder why zap feels
the need of a "regularly updated" init, are there issues in the current
Devuan init that he feels are not being adequately addressed?


  Bye,


Alessandro

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Re: [DNG] How long should I expect to wait for openrc to be ready in devuan ascii

[zap]

It is a little too confusing trying to install openrc at the moment so I
will pass for now...

It is just a shame that the runit-init package was taken down...


On 06/30/2017 06:46 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Jun 2017 21:45:23 +0200
> Joachim Fahrner  wrote:
>
>> Am 2017-06-30 19:16, schrieb Steve Litt:
>>
>>> Would it be possible for you to install OpenRC from upstream
>>> source? I know that's easily doable with runit or s6, but I know
>>> little about OpenRC.  
>> I'm wondering why there are lots of discussions about init systems.
>> What is wrong with sysv init? My notebook is booting (from ssd)
>> within 8 seconds. Nothing I would complain about.
> sysvinit works, always has. It's a good, workable init system. And it's
> for certain better than systemd unless 99% of your priority is boot
> time.
>
> Now let me explain why I personally prefer runit instead of sysvinit...
>
> * sysvinit requires those gigantic and messy init scripts, whereas
>   runit requires only a 10 line run script, give or take.
>
> * sysvinit depends on PID files that can make things go wrong in
>   difficult to understand ways. Runit has no PID files.
>
> * With runit, if you write a daemon program, your daemon program
>   doesn't need to background itself nor tell the init system that it's
>   ready.
>
> * I find runit more adaptable to varied usages than sysvinit.
>
> * With runit, I can look in one directory and easily see all my
>   daemons, with easy names that don't look like S50-whatever
>
> * Runit's sv command does all the stuff needed by the five mandatory
>   sections of a sysvinit script.
>
> * Runit doesn't require the commented out special numbers and stuff
>   that sysvinit init scripts do.
>
> * Runit is much less than thirty two years old. Although both you and I
>   know sysvinit's age doesn't make it one micron less competent, it's
>   much easier to argue that runit is better than systemd rather than
>   arguing that sysvinit is better than systemd. This benefit, of
>   course, is purely rhetoric and political, and in fact I think
>   sysvinit is MUCH better than systemd.
>
> * It's really a matter of personal preference, and it's easy to switch
>   between sysvinit and runit.
>
> By the way, everything I said about runit goes equally for the s6 init
> system.
>
>
>
>

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Re: [DNG] How long should I expect to wait for openrc to be ready in devuan ascii

[Steve Litt]

On Fri, 30 Jun 2017 21:45:23 +0200
Joachim Fahrner  wrote:

> Am 2017-06-30 19:16, schrieb Steve Litt:
> 
> > Would it be possible for you to install OpenRC from upstream
> > source? I know that's easily doable with runit or s6, but I know
> > little about OpenRC.  
> 
> I'm wondering why there are lots of discussions about init systems.
> What is wrong with sysv init? My notebook is booting (from ssd)
> within 8 seconds. Nothing I would complain about.

sysvinit works, always has. It's a good, workable init system. And it's
for certain better than systemd unless 99% of your priority is boot
time.

Now let me explain why I personally prefer runit instead of sysvinit...

* sysvinit requires those gigantic and messy init scripts, whereas
  runit requires only a 10 line run script, give or take.

* sysvinit depends on PID files that can make things go wrong in
  difficult to understand ways. Runit has no PID files.

* With runit, if you write a daemon program, your daemon program
  doesn't need to background itself nor tell the init system that it's
  ready.

* I find runit more adaptable to varied usages than sysvinit.

* With runit, I can look in one directory and easily see all my
  daemons, with easy names that don't look like S50-whatever

* Runit's sv command does all the stuff needed by the five mandatory
  sections of a sysvinit script.

* Runit doesn't require the commented out special numbers and stuff
  that sysvinit init scripts do.

* Runit is much less than thirty two years old. Although both you and I
  know sysvinit's age doesn't make it one micron less competent, it's
  much easier to argue that runit is better than systemd rather than
  arguing that sysvinit is better than systemd. This benefit, of
  course, is purely rhetoric and political, and in fact I think
  sysvinit is MUCH better than systemd.

* It's really a matter of personal preference, and it's easy to switch
  between sysvinit and runit.

By the way, everything I said about runit goes equally for the s6 init
system.




-- 
SteveT

Steve Litt 
June 2017 featured book: The Key to Everyday Excellence
http://www.troubleshooters.com/key
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Re: [DNG] How long should I expect to wait for openrc to be ready in devuan ascii

[Didier Kryn]

Le 30/06/2017 à 23:30, Vincent Bentley a écrit :

Along time ago, well designed and well behaved software could be
recognised by the number of years passed without changes. I worked at
one place that was proud of release version birthdays.


Agreed. That's why I'm always bothered with the fast release pace 
of some essential pieces of software, with the fastest being the GCC and 
the Linux kernel.


Didier


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Re: [DNG] How long should I expect to wait for openrc to be ready in devuan ascii

[Vincent Bentley]

Along time ago, well designed and well behaved software could be
recognised by the number of years passed without changes. I worked at
one place that was proud of release version birthdays.

On 30/06/17 21:22, zap wrote:
> 
> 
> On 06/30/2017 03:45 PM, Joachim Fahrner wrote:

> I just want to use an init that is more regularly updated that is all...
> 



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Re: [DNG] How long should I expect to wait for openrc to be ready in devuan ascii

[zap]

On 06/30/2017 03:45 PM, Joachim Fahrner wrote:
> Am 2017-06-30 19:16, schrieb Steve Litt:
>
>> Would it be possible for you to install OpenRC from upstream source? I
>> know that's easily doable with runit or s6, but I know little about
>> OpenRC.
>
> I'm wondering why there are lots of discussions about init systems.
> What is wrong with sysv init? My notebook is booting (from ssd) within
> 8 seconds. Nothing I would complain about.
>

I just want to use an init that is more regularly updated that is all...

> Jochen
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Re: [DNG] How long should I expect to wait for openrc to be ready in devuan ascii

[zap]

On 06/30/2017 11:21 AM, Svante Signell wrote:
> On Thu, 2017-06-29 at 19:34 -0400, zap wrote:
>> not really complaining for the most part. But I am curious that's
>> all.
>>
> Hi zap,
>
> As I wrote earlier, you can install openrc by:
> 0) Enable ascii in /etc/apt/sources.list
> deb http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged ascii main
>
> 1) add to /etc/apt/sources.list
>  deb http://packages.devuan.org/devuan/ ascii-proposed main
>
> 2) apt-get update
>
> 3) apt-get download sysvinit-utils
>
> 4) Build* and install libfdisk1 and util-linux (2.29.21+devuan1). If
> you are in i386 I can send you them. Otherwise see below.
>
> dpkg -i libfdisk1_2.29.2-1+devuan1_i386.deb util-linux_2.29.2-
> 1+devuan1_i386.deb sysvinit-utils_2.88dsf-59.9+devuan2_i386.deb
>
> 5) apt-get upgrade: Installs latest initscripts:
> initscripts (2.88dsf-59.9+devuan2)
>
> 6) apt-get -s install openrc
> Check that all is OK, then remove the -s
> The following additional packages will be installed:
>   libeinfo1 librc1
> The following packages will be REMOVED:
>   sysv-rc
>
> To build util-linux for your arch:
> 1) Add to sources.list
> deb-src http://packages.devuan.org/devuan/ ascii-proposed main
>
> 2) Download sources
> dget https://packages.devuan.org/devuan/pool/main/u/util-linux/util-lin
> ux_2.29.2-1+devuan1.dsc
>
> 3) Unpack sources
> dpkg-source -x util-linux_2.29.2-1+devuan1.dsc
>
> 4) cd util-linux-2.29.2/
> Install all packages needed in debian/control as root:
> see Build-Depends: entry
>
> 5) dpkg-buildpackage 2>&1 | tee buildpackage-2.29.2-1+devuan1.log
> (see above at point 4)
Okay, this is a better way to know how to do so. I didn't understand the
instructions before. that's all... thanks
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Re: [DNG] How long should I expect to wait for openrc to be ready in devuan ascii

[Joachim Fahrner]

Am 2017-06-30 19:16, schrieb Steve Litt:


Would it be possible for you to install OpenRC from upstream source? I
know that's easily doable with runit or s6, but I know little about
OpenRC.


I'm wondering why there are lots of discussions about init systems. What 
is wrong with sysv init? My notebook is booting (from ssd) within 8 
seconds. Nothing I would complain about.


Jochen
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Re: [DNG] How long should I expect to wait for openrc to be ready in devuan ascii

[Steve Litt]

On Fri, 30 Jun 2017 14:20:08 +
Miroslav Rovis  wrote:

> On 170629-19:34-0400, zap wrote:
> > not really complaining for the most part. But I am curious that's
> > all.  
> I wish I knew better, but, for a simple question of mine today (see
> my other email of today, and the links to dev1galaxy.org post of
> mine) I only after some time waiting got a reply...

Would it be possible for you to install OpenRC from upstream source? I
know that's easily doable with runit or s6, but I know little about
OpenRC.
 
SteveT

Steve Litt 
June 2017 featured book: The Key to Everyday Excellence
http://www.troubleshooters.com/key
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Re: [DNG] How long should I expect to wait for openrc to be ready in devuan ascii

[Miroslav Rovis]

On 170630-10:16-0500, goli...@dyne.org wrote:
> On 2017-06-30 09:20, Miroslav Rovis wrote:
> > 
> > . . .  (and although I can log in to GDO, I'm
> > very clumsy at finding out things in there still, to be able to tell
> > you).
> > 
> 
> I often get to gdo from the dev1galaxy forum:
> 
> https://dev1galaxy.org/viewforum.php?id=18  (gdo projects)
> https://dev1galaxy.org/viewforum.php?id=19  (gdo issues)
> 
> The bot that posts those threads is a bit whimsical.  But it does provide a
> handy, searchable db of what is on git and access to the target at one
> click.
> 
> golinux
> 
Thanks, golinux!

Aaah, I have browsed those on a few occasions, but only once you start using 
Devuan so much more you slowly start to get the grip on it... So slowly here...

But the Svante Signell's tips in the other email is so appealing... Except, 
time is needed more abundantly for all that one would like to do...

-- 
Miroslav Rovis
Zagreb, Croatia
https://www.CroatiaFidelis.hr


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Re: [DNG] How long should I expect to wait for openrc to be ready in devuan ascii

[Svante Signell]

On Thu, 2017-06-29 at 19:34 -0400, zap wrote:
> not really complaining for the most part. But I am curious that's
> all.
> 

Hi zap,

As I wrote earlier, you can install openrc by:
0) Enable ascii in /etc/apt/sources.list
deb http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged ascii main

1) add to /etc/apt/sources.list
 deb http://packages.devuan.org/devuan/ ascii-proposed main

2) apt-get update

3) apt-get download sysvinit-utils

4) Build* and install libfdisk1 and util-linux (2.29.21+devuan1). If
you are in i386 I can send you them. Otherwise see below.

dpkg -i libfdisk1_2.29.2-1+devuan1_i386.deb util-linux_2.29.2-
1+devuan1_i386.deb sysvinit-utils_2.88dsf-59.9+devuan2_i386.deb

5) apt-get upgrade: Installs latest initscripts:
initscripts (2.88dsf-59.9+devuan2)

6) apt-get -s install openrc
Check that all is OK, then remove the -s
The following additional packages will be installed:
  libeinfo1 librc1
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  sysv-rc

To build util-linux for your arch:
1) Add to sources.list
deb-src http://packages.devuan.org/devuan/ ascii-proposed main

2) Download sources
dget https://packages.devuan.org/devuan/pool/main/u/util-linux/util-lin
ux_2.29.2-1+devuan1.dsc

3) Unpack sources
dpkg-source -x util-linux_2.29.2-1+devuan1.dsc

4) cd util-linux-2.29.2/
Install all packages needed in debian/control as root:
see Build-Depends: entry

5) dpkg-buildpackage 2>&1 | tee buildpackage-2.29.2-1+devuan1.log
(see above at point 4)
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Re: [DNG] How long should I expect to wait for openrc to be ready in devuan ascii

[golinux]

On 2017-06-30 09:20, Miroslav Rovis wrote:


. . .  (and although I can log in to GDO, I'm
very clumsy at finding out things in there still, to be able to tell
you).



I often get to gdo from the dev1galaxy forum:

https://dev1galaxy.org/viewforum.php?id=18  (gdo projects)
https://dev1galaxy.org/viewforum.php?id=19  (gdo issues)

The bot that posts those threads is a bit whimsical.  But it does 
provide a handy, searchable db of what is on git and access to the 
target at one click.


golinux


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Re: [DNG] How long should I expect to wait for openrc to be ready in devuan ascii

[Miroslav Rovis]

On 170629-19:34-0400, zap wrote:
> not really complaining for the most part. But I am curious that's all.
I wish I knew better, but, for a simple question of mine today (see my other 
email of today, and the links to dev1galaxy.org post of mine) I only after some 
time waiting got a reply...

Some of our devs are really overworked already.

And yet, even though it's not a perfect place either, there is a whole lot more 
sanity here than many other places... Esp. those engulfed with 
systemDestruction but other places as well...

I wish I know better and were able to help in, esp. in development, because you 
can see by telltales here and there, more manpower is needed in Devuan... I 
hope at least that I'll be able to help more seriously with testing some day 
not too far from now.

I've used openrc a lot, because I've used Gentoo for some eight or nine 
years... But it very hard to know when to expect it to be in Devuan fully and 
operationally (and although I can log in to GDO, I'm very clumsy at finding out 
things in there still, to be able to tell you).

Just more patience, zap. You can almost never tell when things are going to be 
done in programming/in development. And it's almost always later then they have 
been expected to happen.

Regards!
-- 
Miroslav Rovis
Zagreb, Croatia
https://www.CroatiaFidelis.hr


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[DNG] How long should I expect to wait for openrc to be ready in devuan ascii

[zap]

not really complaining for the most part. But I am curious that's all.
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