Re: [DNG] kernel instabilities
Hi Riccardo, On 06/01/2020 07:55 PM, Riccardo Mottola via Dng wrote: yes, I am currently on ascii on all my machines. I could try to test beowulf too, although I need to be sure to have gcc 6.5 Beowulf has gcc-7 and gcc-8 instead, but also gcc (build-essential) which is the compiler used by default in all the branches by the mozilla debian-team. Arcticfox will build successfully with it. I tested it today. I also tried building Palemoon-28.10.0 with gcc-8 and it worked. On the other hand, i point out that palemoon-28.x uses the *gold* linker instead of /usr/bin/ld. Cheers, Aitor. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] kernel instabilities
Hi! On 5/28/20 11:35 AM, wirelessd...@gmail.com wrote: There’s also a slightly newer version 4.19 available from backports repository. While not as new as the most recent stable kernel, it might be quicker and easier to test out than compiling as it’s available through apt. https://pkginfo.devuan.org/stage/ascii/ascii-backports/linux-image-amd64_4.19+105+deb10u3~bpo9+1.html If that doesn’t work then I agree that compiling the latest stable would be the next choice. yes, I am currently on ascii on all my machines. I could try to test beowulf too, although I need to be sure to have gcc 6.5 Anyway, the tipo of the backport brings stability again, I am running now: 4.19.0-0.bpo.8-amd64 #1 SMP And I have run it two days, including several heavy compilation sessions of ArcticFox, xfce desktop, suspend to RAM, browsing and some usb device access... seems fine so far. Riccardo ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] kernel instabilities
On 2020-05-28 16:15, Hendrik Boom wrote: > I can't say I understand the version numbers -- both 4.9.0-6 and > 4.9.88? *-4.9.0-6 is the deb package _name_, 4.9.88 is the version (based on kernel.org source version). Confusing, yes, but nothing new, except possibly uname being able to report the version. Other than that it has been this way as long as I remember, in debian as well as devuan. -- Ian ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] kernel instabilities
> There is a 5.4.x version > in buster/Beowulf backports, which is the latest LTS release. That > should be new enough, and easier than recompiling from source. > > Greg Yes that’s what I’m currently running. However the kernel version listed in the original email suggested that the person was running Ascii and not Beowulf which is why they would only have access to 4.19 from ascii-backports repository. If someone on Ascii wants a kernel newer than backports then they will have to compile it themselves or upgrade to Beowulf to access beowulf-backports. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] kernel instabilities
On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 07:35:16PM +1000, wirelessduck--- via Dng wrote: > There’s also a slightly newer version 4.19 available from backports > repository. While not as new as the most recent stable kernel, it might be > quicker and easier to test out than compiling as it’s available through apt. > > https://pkginfo.devuan.org/stage/ascii/ascii-backports/linux-image-amd64_4.19+105+deb10u3~bpo9+1.html There is a 5.4.x version in buster/Beowulf backports, which is the latest LTS release. That should be new enough, and easier than recompiling from source. Greg -- web site: http://www.gregn.net gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc skype: gregn1 (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first) If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your contacts. -- Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-mana...@eu.org ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] kernel instabilities
On Thu, 2020-05-28 at 16:15 -0400, Hendrik Boom wrote: > > I'm on > 4.9.0-6-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.88-1+deb9u1 (2018-05-07) x86_64 > GNU/Linux > from the beowulf repository; but then I'm running beowulf for quite > a > while now. > I can't say I understand the version numbers -- both 4.9.0-6 and > 4.9.88? > > -- hendrik Just found that out today. According to the uname manpage, one's the release and one's the version of the kernel. I'll have to pay more attention to upgrades and see which changes more often as I'm not sure. From uname manpage: -r, --kernel-release print the kernel release -v, --kernel-version print the kernel version ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] kernel instabilities
On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 07:49:04AM -0600, 'smee via Dng wrote: > Since you mention 4.19... > > I've got: kernel version: 4.19.98-1 (2020-01-26) kernel release: > 4.19.0-8-amd64cpu: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7- > 3740QM CPU @ 2.70GHz > I mentioned previously that when I run a cpu-heavy application (cpu > cryptominer) for a number of hours (14 hours to failure the only time I > clocked it) I get this problem where the gui freezes to the point that > I have to reboot. This started right after the upgrade to beowulf. > Just a note, all the machines I've upgraded from ascii to beowulf so > far have upgraded the kernel to 4.19. I'm on 4.9.0-6-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.88-1+deb9u1 (2018-05-07) x86_64 GNU/Linux from the beowulf repository; but then I'm running beowulf for quite a while now. I can't say I understand the version numbers -- both 4.9.0-6 and 4.9.88? -- hendrik > > > > On Thu, 2020-05-28 at 19:35 +1000, wirelessduck--- via Dng wrote: > > > You're very likely required to upgrade to a much newer Kernel > > > version. I > > > suggest you to use the most recent stable kernel version and build > > > it from > > > source ( Not that hard, ask me for help if needed) For me the > > > upgrade > > > fixed the issue. > > > > > > cheers, > > > Andreas > > > > There’s also a slightly newer version 4.19 available from backports > > repository. While not as new as the most recent stable kernel, it > > might be quicker and easier to test out than compiling as it’s > > available through apt. > > > > https://pkginfo.devuan.org/stage/ascii/ascii-backports/linux-image-amd64_4.19+105+deb10u3~bpo9+1.html > > > > If that doesn’t work then I agree that compiling the latest stable > > would be the next choice. > > ___Dng mailing > > list...@lists.dyne.org > > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] kernel instabilities
Since you mention 4.19... I've got: kernel version: 4.19.98-1 (2020-01-26) kernel release: 4.19.0-8-amd64cpu: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7- 3740QM CPU @ 2.70GHz I mentioned previously that when I run a cpu-heavy application (cpu cryptominer) for a number of hours (14 hours to failure the only time I clocked it) I get this problem where the gui freezes to the point that I have to reboot. This started right after the upgrade to beowulf. Just a note, all the machines I've upgraded from ascii to beowulf so far have upgraded the kernel to 4.19. On Thu, 2020-05-28 at 19:35 +1000, wirelessduck--- via Dng wrote: > > You're very likely required to upgrade to a much newer Kernel > > version. I > > suggest you to use the most recent stable kernel version and build > > it from > > source ( Not that hard, ask me for help if needed) For me the > > upgrade > > fixed the issue. > > > > cheers, > > Andreas > > There’s also a slightly newer version 4.19 available from backports > repository. While not as new as the most recent stable kernel, it > might be quicker and easier to test out than compiling as it’s > available through apt. > > https://pkginfo.devuan.org/stage/ascii/ascii-backports/linux-image-amd64_4.19+105+deb10u3~bpo9+1.html > > If that doesn’t work then I agree that compiling the latest stable > would be the next choice. > ___Dng mailing > list...@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] kernel instabilities
> You're very likely required to upgrade to a much newer Kernel version. I > suggest you to use the most recent stable kernel version and build it from > source ( Not that hard, ask me for help if needed) For me the upgrade > fixed the issue. > > cheers, > Andreas There’s also a slightly newer version 4.19 available from backports repository. While not as new as the most recent stable kernel, it might be quicker and easier to test out than compiling as it’s available through apt. https://pkginfo.devuan.org/stage/ascii/ascii-backports/linux-image-amd64_4.19+105+deb10u3~bpo9+1.html If that doesn’t work then I agree that compiling the latest stable would be the next choice.___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] kernel instabilities
Hi Ricardo, On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 09:24:59AM +0200, Riccardo Mottola via Dng wrote: > I just tried adding "contrib" to my repositories and I see intel microcode > is available, I hope it helps. > > Do you know how this "update" works? will it be applied also when running > older kernels? Typically the microcode update will be prepend to the normal init-ramdisk image during creation of the init-ramdisk. The kernel will load this microcode in a very early stage. See following link for details https://wiki.debian.org/initramfs I remind that I had several issues with some Intel atom based celeron and certain kernel versions. There is a problem with the power saving in these cpus which was not handled properly in the Kernel. Starting with some kernel which used more aggresive power savings, the machine started crashing randomly. I think the problem is not limited to celerons it seems to persist since a while now, more or less solved for some usecases. It relates to the internal GPU of the processors. See here: https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=109051 You're very likely required to upgrade to a much newer Kernel version. I suggest you to use the most recent stable kernel version and build it from source ( Not that hard, ask me for help if needed) For me the upgrade fixed the issue. cheers, Andreas signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] kernel instabilities
Hi all let me resurrect this thread. I am now working on this computer regular, lockdown has lessened here in Italy and I hope all you Devuaners are in good help. Unfortunately stability did not improve much On 3/18/20 4:28 PM, Hendrik Boom wrote: (1) Do we even know it's a kernel problem? (2) They don't seem to be specific to a particular kernel; Of course they might have entirely different causes. (3) Is Debian having similar probems? (4) Might it be something in the way the kernel is being used? Perhaps something takes over the mouse, touchpad, and keyboard so that the user becomes helpless? (5) Surely there is some relevant partial shutdown, dumping, and/or logging procedure that would provide clues? We know it is a kernel problem since I can boot 4.9.0-11 boots fine (typing right now) while 4.9.0-12 crashes very soon (sometimes you can get to X and it freezes right thereafter) but most often it freezes directly at boot. It is a hard freeze. My CPU is: model name : Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU T7200 @ 2.00GHz I just tried adding "contrib" to my repositories and I see intel microcode is available, I hope it helps. Do you know how this "update" works? will it be applied also when running older kernels? I do not see it applied in dmesg when running 4.9.0-11 grep "microcode updated early to" returns nothing. Also I wonder if when running 4.9.0-12 it is applied early enough and if it would help at all. I tried running 4.9.0-12 in recovery mode and I see the crash of the kernel. (I did attach a screenshot, but it cannot fit inside the 40K of this mailing list, so I am removing it) Riccardo ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] kernel instabilities
Hi, right now I don't have access to the computer - due to quarantine restrictions I cannot move from my house. Hendrik Boom wrote: > (1) Do we even know it's a kernel problem? I think yes. I am using ascii. The laptop has always been rock-stable. I upgrade the kernel, I get two freezes in a row, once after somet ime (including CPU usage due to compilation) and once earlier. I book using the odl kernel, no freeze and was able to compile for hours. I think this pinpoints it that not other upgdared things are the issue. > (2) They don't seem to be specific to a particular kernel; Of course > they might have entirely different causes. In my case, it appears to be (or at least the kernel in a specific configuration). > (3) Is Debian having similar probems? Who knows? I do not dual-boot. > (4) Might it be something in the way the kernel is being used? > Perhaps something takes over the mouse, touchpad, and keyboard so that > the user becomes helpless? No, I think it is a "hard freeze" since "shutdown" via APCI doesn't work (sngle quick power button press). > (5) Surely there is some relevant partial shutdown, dumping, > and/or logging procedure that would provide clues? I am using ascii on another laptop which I have here and can use in quarantine and it works fine! Should be installed and configured the same way, with debian ascii. One big difference: AMD CPU, so for sure a different cpu and has less vulnerabilities and will be mitigated differently. Is there a way to disable spectire/meltdown mitigations on the kernel command line? It would be a nice way to test if it helps and if thereis also a penalty in speed. I might as well as disable them forever in case. Riccardo ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] kernel instabilities
Is there any way we could gather useful information about these crashes. I'm not any kind of kernel expert, but I'd like to contribute useful information, if possible, when such a crash happens. (1) Do we even know it's a kernel problem? (2) They don't seem to be specific to a particular kernel; Of course they might have entirely different causes. (3) Is Debian having similar probems? (4) Might it be something in the way the kernel is being used? Perhaps something takes over the mouse, touchpad, and keyboard so that the user becomes helpless? (5) Surely there is some relevant partial shutdown, dumping, and/or logging procedure that would provide clues? -- hendrik On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 08:58:51AM -0600, Gabe Stanton via Dng wrote: > It happened again this morning after running the cpu heavy miner for > about 14 hours. I don't recall it ever happening when I wasn't running > that program, and having it happen now reaffirms for me that is the > cause on my machine. Prior to the beowulf upgrade I had it running > pretty much all the time for a few months without issue. > > On Tue, 2020-03-17 at 14:26 -0400, Hendrik Boom wrote: > > On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 09:39:21AM -0600, Gabe Stanton via Dng wrote: > > > One more thing, I'm actually on kernel version 4.19.0.8, but again, > > > this issue started when I upgraded to beowulf. > > > > I've been on beowulf for months now, doing the usual upgrades every > > few weeks, but only started experiencing > > freezes in the past week or two. I don't know what causes them. > > > > hendrik@midwinter:~$ uname -a > > Linux midwinter 4.9.0-6-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.88-1+deb9u1 (2018-05- > > 07) x86_64 GNU/Linux > > hendrik@midwinter:~$ > > > > -- hendrik > > > > > On Tue, 2020-03-17 at 09:34 -0600, Gabe Stanton via Dng wrote: > > > > I've had problems with my machine freezing as well, same > > > > symptoms, > > > > ever > > > > since upgrading to beowulf. The issue for me seems to happen when > > > > I > > > > run > > > > a cpu/ram heavy program, specifically a cpu cryptominer. I've had > > > > it > > > > happen a number of times, always when mining with max 2 cores, > > > > but > > > > haven't dedicated the time to report it properly. I did look > > > > through > > > > various logs in /var/logs but I didn't see anything seemed > > > > relevant > > > > to > > > > the problem. > > > > > > > > I'll try to reproduce it today and send any relevant logs. > > > > > > > > What logs specifically would be relevant to this issue? > > > > > > > > Something relevant to the spectre/meltdown mitigations, I have > > > > multithreading turned off in the bios and have had since the > > > > vuln's > > > > were revealed. > > > > > > > > Also, 64 bit intel cpu here as well. > > > > > > > > On Tue, 2020-03-17 at 03:17 +, tuxd3v wrote: > > > > > Hello Riccardo, > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 7 Mar 2020 12:19:52 +0100 > > > > > > Riccardo Mottola via Dng >wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am using Devuan on an HP laptop with intel 64bit cpu. > > > > > > Everything > > > > > > worked very well, I did a lot of compilation and it is very > > > > > > stable, > > > > > > never had a freeze in months! > > > > > > > > > > > > [0.10] smpboot: CPU0: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU T7200 @ > > > > > > 2.00GHz > > > > > > (family: 0x6, model: 0xf, stepping: 0x6) > > > > > > [0.10] Performance Events: PEBS fmt0-, Core2 events, > > > > > > Intel > > > > > > PMU > > > > > > driver. > > > > > > [0.10] core: PEBS disabled due to CPU errata > > > > > > > > > > > > Yesterday I installed a kernel upgrade, bad things happened > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) after the first reboot with the new kernel, I get up to my > > > > > > desktop, > > > > > > check out sources ad start building Arctic Fox browser, come > > > > > > back > > > > > > after > > > > > > a time and find the machine completely frozen - no disk > > > > > > activity, > > > > > > no > > > > > > mouse possible, no errors. No response to power button > > > > > > pressed > > > > > > (had > > > > > > to > > > > > > press 5 seconds) > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) at reboot, machine freezes quite early in the boot process > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) I retry and it still freezes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I tried selecting in GRUB the older kernel and it boots. It > > > > > > goes > > > > > > past > > > > > > the last error, starts file system check/journal replay and > > > > > > the > > > > > > machine > > > > > > seems stable again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is the last good kernel version: > > > > > > > > > > > > 4.9.0-11-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.189-3+deb9u2 (2019-11-11) > > > > > > x86_64 > > > > > > GNU/Linux > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the unstable version must be the version 4.9.210-1 installed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What could the issue be? I read about backports of spectre > > > > > > mitigations > >
