[DNG] s6

[Adrian Zaugg]

It seems here:
https://github.com/skarnet/s6

(linked by: https://skarnet.com/contact/)

Regards, Adrian.

In der Nachricht vom Saturday, 9 July 2022 16:06:13 CEST schrieb 
wirelessduck--- via Dng:
> Does anyone know where we can keep track of progress on that project? His
> website hasn’t seen any updates since the funding announcement a long time
> ago.



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[DNG] s6: was Lennart now working for Microsoft

[Steve Litt]

wirelessduck--- via Dng said on Sun, 10 Jul 2022 00:06:13 +1000


>Here’s to hoping that Laurent Bercot’s (skarnet) new process
>supervision software arrives and is ready to go before any potential
>systemd implosion occurs.

You can use s6 as a pure process supervisor today, by using sysvinit as
PID1 only and running all processes off s6. You can do the same thing
with runit.

>Does anyone know where we can keep track of progress on that project?

Yes. The supervision mailing list: 

supervision: Discussion about system services, daemon
supervision, init, runlevel management, and tools such as s6
and runit. To subscribe, send an empty message to
supervision-subscr...@list.skarnet.org.

>His website hasn’t seen any updates since the funding announcement a
>long time ago.
>
>https://skarnet.com/projects/service-manager.html

The preceding web page is a project manifesto, not a report on
progress. My understanding is that for the reasonable things we
Devuaners do every day, the s6-linux-init and s6-rc programs are
already capable of creating an s6 only init system with an s6 PID1. My
impression is what Laurent is working on now is the (unwise)
incorporation of better written versions of all systemd features.

Just as a humorous aside, years ago I created something called
the LittKit API that would make any Daemontools, Daemontools-encore,
runit or s6 supervisor init with a specific order and intermix one-shot
and long-run processes. The API implementation must be changed slightly
for each one of those supervisors, but the API interface remains the
same. You can see the LittKit proof of concept at
http://troubleshooters.com/projects/littkit/ and
http://troubleshooters.com/linux/diy/suckless_init_on_plop.htm .

Speaking just for myself in my 7 years of runit, indeterminate startup
is not a problem if you put dependency tests into your run scripts.
Common sense says that indeterminate startup would be a bad thing, but
I've not run across disadvantages. If I ever wanted determinate process
startup, I could either use s6 plus s6-rc, or I could apply LittKit to
runit. 

SteveT

Steve Litt 
March 2022 featured book: Making Mental Models: Advanced Edition
http://www.troubleshooters.com/mmm
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Re: [DNG] s6: was What do we want for ascii ?

[Didier Kryn]

Le 18/04/2016 18:48, Steve Litt a écrit :

On Mon, 18 Apr 2016 16:31:51 +0200
Didier Kryn  wrote:


  Any news of s6? I'm afraid Laurent has leaved the list, either
because he didn't like our disussions or because he was upset by his
emails from dynamic address being rejected.

My understanding is the newest thing is s6-rc, which I understand is
just like s6 except it enables ordered process startup on boot.

I've used s6. It's a heck of a lot like Runit, which I use every day,
except s6 is a tiny more sophisticated, and in s6 the process
supervisor is in PID1, not in a separate process like in Runit.


Just like Runit, s6 can easily be installed on Devuan (but not Debian),
by a fairly knowledgeable user, because the sysvinit it replaces is a
small, encapsulated module. The real beauty of this is you can "dual
init", where if your grub init reference is /sbin/init, you do a
sysvinit, whereas if it's /sbin/runit, you init via Runit. You can go
back and forth with every boot. If several Devuan users do this DIY
change of init, it will provide valuable insight into other inits, in
case at a later date Devuan decides to move off of sysvinit.

NOTE: I'd suggest installing runit or s6 direct from their projects,
and not from any Debian->Devuan packages. The packages would remove the
possibility of dual init, and the packages likely won't work.


SteveT




I apologize to people who consider this topic is going a little too 
far for what is the unstable version of Devuan, but, Steve, let's 
consider that you can have several display managers installed, gdm3, 
kdm, lightdm, slim, all of them if you want, and invoking 
dpkg-reconfigure lets you choose the one in function. Similarly, dpkg 
could just edit a symlink called "init". Everytime you install a new 
init system dpkg asks you which one you want to be in function. Then, if 
you want to bypass it, you can modify the kernel argument - I don't know 
how to do that with grub2. Maybe dpkg could configure grub so as to give 
you an entry for every installed init system.


Didier

Didier

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[DNG] s6: was What do we want for ascii ?

[Steve Litt]

On Mon, 18 Apr 2016 16:31:51 +0200
Didier Kryn  wrote:

>  Any news of s6? I'm afraid Laurent has leaved the list, either 
> because he didn't like our disussions or because he was upset by his 
> emails from dynamic address being rejected.

My understanding is the newest thing is s6-rc, which I understand is
just like s6 except it enables ordered process startup on boot.

I've used s6. It's a heck of a lot like Runit, which I use every day,
except s6 is a tiny more sophisticated, and in s6 the process
supervisor is in PID1, not in a separate process like in Runit.


Just like Runit, s6 can easily be installed on Devuan (but not Debian),
by a fairly knowledgeable user, because the sysvinit it replaces is a
small, encapsulated module. The real beauty of this is you can "dual
init", where if your grub init reference is /sbin/init, you do a
sysvinit, whereas if it's /sbin/runit, you init via Runit. You can go
back and forth with every boot. If several Devuan users do this DIY
change of init, it will provide valuable insight into other inits, in
case at a later date Devuan decides to move off of sysvinit.

NOTE: I'd suggest installing runit or s6 direct from their projects,
and not from any Debian->Devuan packages. The packages would remove the
possibility of dual init, and the packages likely won't work.


SteveT

Steve Litt 
April 2016 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century
http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21
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