Re: [DNG] Refracta on Distrowatch

2016-10-25 Thread golinux 

On 2016-10-25 08:51, aitor_czr wrote:

Hi golinux,

On 10/25/2016 02:00 PM, dng-requ...@lists.dyne.org wrote:
I have found vertex to be buggy.  And it falls over badly on synaptic 
etc.  Hope something better appears before needed for ascii . . .


golinux


Synaptic has root permissions, did you copy your .config file into the
/root folder?



Of course.



The theme i use in gnuinos has a bad appearance with synaptic in
ascii, but vertex looks nice.



The search is definitely on . . . maybe during those dark and cold 
winter months.




Cheers,

  Aitor.




golinux
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Re: [DNG] Refracta on Distrowatch

2016-10-25 Thread aitor_czr 

Hi golinux,

On 10/25/2016 02:00 PM, dng-requ...@lists.dyne.org wrote:

I have found vertex to be buggy.  And it falls over badly on synaptic etc.  
Hope something better appears before needed for ascii . . .

golinux


Synaptic has root permissions, did you copy your .config file into the 
/root folder?


The theme i use in gnuinos has a bad appearance with synaptic in ascii, 
but vertex looks nice.


Cheers,

  Aitor.



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Re: [DNG] Refracta on Distrowatch

2016-10-24 Thread Go Linux 
On Mon, 10/24/16, aitor_czr <aitor_...@gnuinos.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [DNG] Refracta on Distrowatch
 To: dng@lists.dyne.org, "Adam Borowski" <kilob...@angband.pl>
 Date: Monday, October 24, 2016, 12:48 PM
 
[cut]
> 
> But one thing is true: there are not many good gtk3-themes at the moment [*].
> 
[cut]
> 
> [*]  Vertex is one of them.
> 



I have found vertex to be buggy.  And it falls over badly on synaptic etc.  
Hope something better appears before needed for ascii . . .

golinux
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Re: [DNG] Refracta on Distrowatch

2016-10-24 Thread aitor_czr 

Hi Adam,

On 24/10/16 14:00, Adam Borowski  wrote:

On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 05:02:25PM +0200, aitor_czr wrote:

>On 10/21/2016 02:00 PM, Robert Storey  wrote:

> >Sorry, you're right, I misread your comment. Just goes to show why I could
> >benefit from Clearlooks. Anyway, sorry to hear that gtk3 is messing things
> >up for developers, though I shouldn't be surprised. I think I've worked it
> >out to a formula: Systemd+gtk3=Linux_Windows

>Please, don't confuse Gtk3 with Gnome... It's like comparing Qt with Kde:)

Alas, gtk3 causes gnomeization of everything it touches.  Try the file open
dialog, or even worse, the font selection dialog.  The worst part, CSD, is not
mandatory_yet_  but has already found its way to a number of programs that
are hawked as "desktop-agnostic".  Thus, we need to change task-desktop to
use atril instead of evince, eom instead of eog, etc.


Meow!


This is not a Gtk3 issue. You are talking about applications developed 
*for* Gnome. Examples like evince or file-roller...


I have no problem running any of the following examples:

https://developer.gnome.org/gtkmm-tutorial/stable/index-info.html.en

Neither in openbox, lxde, xfce... And none of them causes the known 
weird double shadow:


https://github.com/chjj/compton/issues/189

So, it's not a Gtk3 problem.

But one thing is true: there are not many good gtk3-themes at the moment 
[*].


On the other hand, in appearance, Qt integrates very well in Gtk, but 
the reverse is not true. Neither with Gtk2, neither with Gtk3 :)


**Cheers,

  Aitor.

[*] Vertex is one of them.




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Re: [DNG] Refracta on Distrowatch

2016-10-23 Thread Adam Borowski 
On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 05:02:25PM +0200, aitor_czr wrote:
> On 10/21/2016 02:00 PM, Robert Storey  wrote:
> >Sorry, you're right, I misread your comment. Just goes to show why I could
> >benefit from Clearlooks. Anyway, sorry to hear that gtk3 is messing things
> >up for developers, though I shouldn't be surprised. I think I've worked it
> >out to a formula: Systemd+gtk3=Linux_Windows
> Please, don't confuse Gtk3 with Gnome... It's like comparing Qt with Kde :)

Alas, gtk3 causes gnomeization of everything it touches.  Try the file open
dialog, or even worse, the font selection dialog.  The worst part, CSD, is not
mandatory _yet_ but has already found its way to a number of programs that
are hawked as "desktop-agnostic".  Thus, we need to change task-desktop to
use atril instead of evince, eom instead of eog, etc.


Meow!
-- 
A MAP07 (Dead Simple) raspberry tincture recipe: 0.5l 95% alcohol, 1kg
raspberries, 0.4kg sugar; put into a big jar for 1 month.  Filter out and
throw away the fruits (can dump them into a cake, etc), let the drink age
at least 3-6 months.
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Re: [DNG] Refracta on Distrowatch

2016-10-23 Thread aitor_czr 

Hi Robert,

On 10/21/2016 02:00 PM, Robert Storey  wrote:

Sorry, you're right, I misread your comment. Just goes to show why I could
benefit from Clearlooks. Anyway, sorry to hear that gtk3 is messing things
up for developers, though I shouldn't be surprised. I think I've worked it
out to a formula: Systemd+gtk3=Linux_Windows

Please, don't confuse Gtk3 with Gnome... It's like comparing Qt with Kde :)

Cheers,

  Aitor.



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Re: [DNG] Refracta on Distrowatch

2016-10-19 Thread Adam Borowski 
On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 02:36:14PM +0100, Simon Hobson wrote:
> Robert Storey  wrote:
> 
> > I can't remember the last time I saw an actual CD drive (as opposed to a
> > DVD drive).  OK, I guess you can still find CD music players, but on
> > computers, CD-only drives are a blast from the past.
> 
> I think they'll soon be to the youngsters, what modern tech was to this
> judge (it's quite an old clip) :D
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VgwxKW0J6I
> 
> CD drives - in the same class of "what's that then ?" as floppy disk
> drives, 7-segment LED watches, analogue modems, and ...

Well, my beard is still solid brown, yet I haven't owned a single DVD drive
in my life.  CD drives -- quite a few.  You hardly even see either of those
in any new computers made this decade, so it seems I'll keep my perfect
record of never owning a DVD until my death :p

-- 
A MAP07 (Dead Simple) raspberry tincture recipe: 0.5l 95% alcohol, 1kg
raspberries, 0.4kg sugar; put into a big jar for 1 month.  Filter out and
throw away the fruits (can dump them into a cake, etc), let the drink age
at least 3-6 months.
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Re: [DNG] Refracta on Distrowatch

2016-10-19 Thread fsmithred 
On 10/19/2016 09:10 AM, Robert Storey wrote:

> 
> I'm of the opinion that trying to squeeze everything onto a CD is kind of a
> dated concept. I can't remember the last time I saw an actual CD drive (as
> opposed to a DVD drive). 

You can still get blank CD media. That said, I'm ready to drop that
requirement. Getting jessie to fit in 700MB caused some trouble for me.
For those who must stay below 700MB, there will be no-X isos available as
there were in the past. (I removed the nox isos because they had dmo
packages, and I never got around to replacing them. Since Jessie is
reaching old-age now, I'm looking at doing that for ascii.)


> While I'm meditating on this particular subject (the iso file size), I also
> think it's worth considering if there's a better way of dealing with the
> firmware drivers for wifi. The complexity of setting that up probably
> scares off a lot of people from installing Refracta. 

I seem to recall that it wasn't any easier to get wireless working in
Debian until recently. When did they start automatically installing
non-free firmware? As usual, I'm open to suggestions. (Now that I think
about it, I may have a solution already on my hard drive. If I can find
it...) Having the non-free drivers pre-installed is probably not going to
happen.


> 
> As for when Refracta might get reviewed again on DistroWatch, I don't think
> there's a hard and fast rule about it, but in general when there's a new
> release with some noteworthy features, it should be fine to write an
> article about it. 

I can almost guarantee that there will be a future release with noteworthy
features. Maybe even game-changing features, but that depends on what
happens with other projects.


-fsmithred

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Re: [DNG] Refracta on Distrowatch

2016-10-19 Thread Go Linux 
On Wed, 10/19/16, Robert Storey <robert.sto...@gmail.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [DNG] Refracta on Distrowatch
 To: dng@lists.dyne.org
 Date: Wednesday, October 19, 2016, 8:10 AM
> 
> Hi all,
>   
> I think this idea of having a Clearlooks option is fine. It would be a nice 
> feature to boast about for the next > release (version 8.1?).
> 



Perhaps you didn't understand my comment about Clearlooks. Basically it's a 
dead project so hardly anything to boast about.  It does not play well with 
gtk3 apps so windows are not styled consistently.  Clearlooks-Phenix fixes most 
of those problems in Jessie and even has an openbox option!  But who knows if 
it will work in ascii because gtk3 is turning into an unholy mess that keeps 
breaking window themes.  The alternatives I've looked at are not promising. 
Gnome wants to have their 'branded' style consistent without user 
intervention/choice so I think some of this is on purpose.  But synaptic (and a 
few other gnome apps) are handy to have around and it would be nice to have 
them look and function properly.  Even Clearlooks-Phenix may totally fail in 
ascii.  I haven't ventured there yet (and am not looking forward to it) . . .

golinux


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Re: [DNG] Refracta on Distrowatch

2016-10-19 Thread Simon Hobson 
Robert Storey  wrote:

> I can't remember the last time I saw an actual CD drive (as opposed to a DVD 
> drive). OK, I guess you can still find CD music players, but on computers, 
> CD-only drives are a blast from the past.

I think they'll soon be to the youngsters, what modern tech was to this judge 
(it's quite an old clip) :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VgwxKW0J6I

CD drives - in the same class of "what's that then ?" as floppy disk drives, 
7-segment LED watches, analogue modems, and ...

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Re: [DNG] Refracta on Distrowatch

2016-10-19 Thread Robert Storey 
Hi all,

I think this idea of having a Clearlooks option is fine. It would be a nice
feature to boast about for the next release (version 8.1?).

> Only problem I see with that is that refracta is pared down to fit on a
cd so there might not be room to do it that way.

I'm of the opinion that trying to squeeze everything onto a CD is kind of a
dated concept. I can't remember the last time I saw an actual CD drive (as
opposed to a DVD drive). OK, I guess you can still find CD music players,
but on computers, CD-only drives are a blast from the past. And Refracta's
big selling point is actually its capabilities to run off a USB stick.
Maybe somebody somewhere feels a need to max out at 700MB, but I'd
personally be fine with one GB.

While I'm meditating on this particular subject (the iso file size), I also
think it's worth considering if there's a better way of dealing with the
firmware drivers for wifi. The complexity of setting that up probably
scares off a lot of people from installing Refracta. The first time I
installed it, I didn't know how to set up wifi and had to ask fsmithred for
help (which he graciously gave). That's why I went into details in the
review explaining how to do it. But anyway, if there is an easy solution to
that problem which increases the size of the iso file beyond what will fit
on a CD, again I have no problem with that. Just thought I should voice
that opinion here - others may not agree.

As for when Refracta might get reviewed again on DistroWatch, I don't think
there's a hard and fast rule about it, but in general when there's a new
release with some noteworthy features, it should be fine to write an
article about it. I'm not the one who makes the final decision on what gets
published, but my experience is that DistroWatch management is very
reasonable - if there's news to report, they'll report it.

So here's to hoping for a great new release in 2017.

cheers,
Robert
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Re: [DNG] Refracta on Distrowatch

2016-10-18 Thread Go Linux 
On Tue, 10/18/16, Steve Litt <sl...@troubleshooters.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [DNG] Refracta on Distrowatch
 To: dng@lists.dyne.org
 Date: Tuesday, October 18, 2016, 12:40 PM
 
On Tue, 18 Oct 2016 14:30:52 + (UTC)
Go Linux <goli...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> Here's a suggestion . . .
>>
>> Why don't you roll your own low vision-friendly Refracta! 
>>

> That ain't a half bad idea!

OK.  Let's get to it!

>>
>> That would be so easy to do with refractasnapshot
>>

> I'll need guidance with refractasnapshot.

http://www.ibiblio.org/refracta/documents.html

>>
>> after you've made the appropriate changes
>>

> Yeah, that was my next question. Changes to what? Where do I start in
> making this theme?

Change the wallpaper/background by right clicking on the desktop.  Fonts, etc. 
from Menu > Settings > Appearance

>>
>> and way more efficient than us trying to figure
>> out what would and wouldn't work.   
>>

> Yeah, I could do it in a day, which is way quicker than a back and
> forth via IRC.

Time will tell.

>>
>> Don't know if fsr has room to
>> host it himself but he could surely provide prominent links to it on
>> the Refracta website, forum and sourceforge.
>>

> Well wait. This thing is only relevant if, at boot, the person can
> choose it. If it's hosted elsewhere, and the user must navigate through
> an interface he can't see in order to download it, it's not worth doing.
>

Anybody interested in refracta would be made aware of a low-vision friendly 
edition and where to download it.  And as fsr mentioned, perhaps it could be 
included in the main iso as another user.  Only problem I see with that is that 
refracta is pared down to fit on a cd so there might not be room to do it that 
way.

> 
> Remember, this is like a buried shovel. The user must read in order to
> use my theme, and must use my theme to read.
> 

See above.  Potential users will READ before they download so will know how and 
where to get what they need.

> 
> Does Refracta ship with a factory direct, untweaked clearlooks? That
> might be a good place to start.
> 

Both Devuan and Refracta use a customized Clearlooks-Phenix theme.  Clearlooks 
is not GTK3 friendly and these days GTK3 support is really needed.  
Clearlooks-Phenix was the best compromise.

>
> And I'll need your help on this, because I don't know which files and
> variables change which properties. I'll just ask you on #debianfork.
> 

That should get you started.

> 
> Thanks,
> 
> SteveT
> 

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Re: [DNG] Refracta on Distrowatch

2016-10-18 Thread Steve Litt 
On Tue, 18 Oct 2016 14:30:52 + (UTC)
Go Linux  wrote:

  
> 
> Here's a suggestion . . . 
> 
> Why don't you roll your own low vision-friendly Refracta!  

That ain't a half bad idea!

> That would
> be so easy to do with refractasnapshot 

I'll need guidance with refractasnapshot.


> after you've made the
> appropriate changes 

Yeah, that was my next question. Changes to what? Where do I start in
making this theme?

> and way more efficient than us trying to figure
> out what would and wouldn't work.   

Yeah, I could do it in a day, which is way quicker than a back and
forth via IRC.

> Don't know if fsr has room to
> host it himself but he could surely provide prominent links to it on
> the Refracta website, forum and sourceforge.

Well wait. This thing is only relevant if, at boot, the person can
choose it. If it's hosted elsewhere, and the user must navigate through
an interface he can't see in order to download it, it's not worth doing.

Remember, this is like a buried shovel. The user must read in order to
use my theme, and must use my theme to read.

Does Refracta ship with a factory direct, untweaked clearlooks? That
might be a good place to start.

And I'll need your help on this, because I don't know which files and
variables change which properties. I'll just ask you on #debianfork.

Thanks,
 
SteveT

Steve Litt 
September 2016 featured book: Twenty Eight Tales of Troubleshooting
http://www.troubleshooters.com/28


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Re: [DNG] Refracta on Distrowatch

2016-10-18 Thread Go Linux 


On Mon, 10/17/16, Steve Litt <sl...@troubleshooters.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [DNG] Refracta on Distrowatch
 To: dng@lists.dyne.org
 Date: Monday, October 17, 2016, 7:14 PM
>  
>  A COUPLE OTHER REFRACTA SUGGESTIONS
>  
>  The Refracta I installed on the laptop was very hostile to those with
>  bad vision. It had this garish mostly orange and some black background
>  that camouflaged any desktop icons and even terminals. The terminals
>  were set to some low contrast thing like #aa on #00, with small
>  fonts, and transparency. Imagine how hard it was to read anything when
>  the garish background obscured the tiny, low contrast writing on the
>  terminal.
>  
>  Pretty is nice, but pretty is a luxury for the well-sighted. Those of
>  us with lousy vision hugely prioritize legibility, which is usually a
>  direct tradeoff with pretty. There are times I can't read pretty enough
>  to configure it to legibility.
>  
>  So I'd suggest a second theme for Refracta, either selectible at boot,
>  or runnable by a click on the top left desktop icon (remember, the user
>  might not be seeing the icon clearly enough to read it). The legibility
>  theme should feature:
>  
>  * No background image. Just a straight #006600 color, no gradient.
>  
>  * Terminal coloration either #00 on #ff or #ff on #00.
>Yeah, that gives some people headaches, but those of us with bad
>vision can't even use the less contrasty stuff.
>  
>  * Big font for the terminals. Big enough that an 80x25 terminal
>emulator should occupy considerably more than 1/4 of the monitor
>area. Consider bold fonts. Ugly, but more readable to the
>less-sighted.
>  
>  * No friggin transparency!
>  
>  * Window border width of 2px instead of 1px, colored very noticibly,
>especially for the active window (I use #00 for the active window
>border and #66 for the inactive window border). No silly
>gradients on the titlebar: legibility for the poorly sighted demands
>a solid block recognizeable as such.
>  
>  * Window title bar font big, similar to what I described for the
>terminal emulator font, and very contrasty with the window title bar
>background color.
>  
>  * Active window's titlebar *VERY* noticible at a moment's glance. My
>active titlebar has a background of #DD and foreground #CC.
>I'm not color blind, but if I were, I might prefer something like
>#00 on #FF. Ugly to most of us, but to a poorly-sighted
>colorblind person this would be a saving grace.
>  
>  As you read this, it will sound horribly ugly to you, but please
>  remember it will be used by very few. Most people will use the standard
>  theme. The only purpose of this alternate theme is to help those whose
>  vision is so bad they can't afford pretty. And please remember, unless
>  this alternate theme is either default or dead-bang easy and intuitive
>  to get to, the poorly sighted person will not have the visual acuity to
>  navigate the standard theme enough to make their computer legible.
>  
>  Thanks,
>  
>  SteveT
>  

Here's a suggestion . . . 

Why don't you roll your own low vision-friendly Refracta!  That would be so 
easy to do with refractasnapshot after you've made the appropriate changes and 
way more efficient than us trying to figure out what would and wouldn't work.   
Don't know if fsr has room to host it himself but he could surely provide 
prominent links to it on the Refracta website, forum and sourceforge.

Cheers!

golinux

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Re: [DNG] Refracta on Distrowatch

2016-10-18 Thread Edward Bartolo 
Hi,

One thing to suggest is to remember, that there are unfortunate
beings, who do not enjoy a normal eye vision, for whom, a fully
configurable font rendering is a *must*. It can be the best of
existing OSs, if it hurts a user's eyes, they have no other option,
other than, to discontinue using it. I tried a previous release by
fsmithred but was set back with tired and irritated eyes caused by the
small fonts used. Bigger resolutions should mean, better font
rendering with smooth edges that are more pleasant to read, rather
than, actual font sizes that are INVERSELY PROPORTIONAL to screen
resolution.

Please, remember, eyesight problems also involve astigmatism which can
be very difficult to correct for. Don't assume a 7/7 eyesight is the
norm, as it is not.

Edward

-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.

Albert Einstein
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Re: [DNG] Refracta on Distrowatch

2016-10-17 Thread fsmithred 
On 10/17/2016 08:14 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Oct 2016 13:49:34 + (UTC)
> Go Linux  wrote:
> 
>> FYI . . . Refracta 8.0 gets a nice review on Distrowatch
>>
>> http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20161017#refracta
>>



...
> About finding which of the 18 wireless drivers to install, and how to
> install them: The article mentions having a previous Debian/Devuan or
> Ubuntu install and then type "dpkg --get-selections | grep firmware".
> But what should one do if he/she has no such previous installation?
> 
> The article mentions:
> 
> ===
> That's fine, except that there are 18 possible drivers, and you might
> not know which one to install. You really wouldn't want to install all
> 18. 
> ===
> 
> Why not? What disadvantages would accrue if I simply installed all 18?
> I know doing so wouldn't be neat or crisp or geekily correct, but
> wouldn't it enable me to simply get on with it? What would be the
> disadvantage besides crudity?
> 

I don't think there's any reason you can't install all of them, or more
likely, most of them. In wheezy, there were a couple of broadcom drivers
that conflicted with each other. Other than that, I think the worst thing
would be a waste of precious hard drive space.

They aren't pre-installed in Refracta for a couple of reasons. 1. Only the
main repo is enabled, so it's all free software. The non-free driver
packages are there if you want or need them. 2. Some of them require that
you agree to some terms when you install them. I can't agree for anyone
but me. 3. Waste of precious CD space. For jessie, we were able to stick
to the "fits on a CD" rule.

Another way to figure out which driver you need is to run 'lspci' and see
what network hardware you have. Compare the words you see there to the
list of driver descriptions in the readme file inside the wireless_drivers
directory. Some of them are pretty obvious, so you can narrow it down.


> And if I simply got on with it, couldn't I later perform:
> 
> dpkg --get-selections | grep firmware
> 
> and uninstall any drivers that don't get mentioned? If so, what
> uninstall command would I use (the install seemed not to use apt-get)?
> 

'dpkg -i ' to install a package.
'dpkg -r ' to remove a package.
apt-get and aptitude (and probably apt) can be used to remove packages
that were installed with 'dpkg -i'.


OK, sorry about the visual presentation. All good points below. (I'll have
to get golinux to translate some of it for me.) I did make a special build
for someone with poor vision, but all I did was add some accessibility
package and make the fonts bigger. I never got any feedback on that.

Are there any stock desktop themes in xfce that you can recommend? I don't
know of an easy way to change the theme before logging in, but I can
probably figure out something. Maybe even a second user with different
desktop settings.

Window borders are going to get wider across the board. I can't grab an
edge with a track pad. Pretty sure we already made them wider once. I've
been thinking about doing it again. Have to dig up some old emails.

Thanks for the suggestions. This is now on my (mental) list of things to
do. Now that 8.0 is done, it's time to start playing with ascii. There
will be plenty of new builds to play with.

-fsmithred



> 
> A COUPLE OTHER REFRACTA SUGGESTIONS
> 
> The Refracta I installed on the laptop was very hostile to those with
> bad vision. It had this garish mostly orange and some black background
> that camouflaged any desktop icons and even terminals. The terminals
> were set to some low contrast thing like #aa on #00, with small
> fonts, and transparency. Imagine how hard it was to read anything when
> the garish background obscured the tiny, low contrast writing on the
> terminal.
> 
> Pretty is nice, but pretty is a luxury for the well-sighted. Those of
> us with lousy vision hugely prioritize legibility, which is usually a
> direct tradeoff with pretty. There are times I can't read pretty enough
> to configure it to legibility.
> 
> So I'd suggest a second theme for Refracta, either selectible at boot,
> or runnable by a click on the top left desktop icon (remember, the user
> might not be seeing the icon clearly enough to read it). The legibility
> theme should feature:
> 
> * No background image. Just a straight #006600 color, no gradient.
> 
> * Terminal coloration either #00 on #ff or #ff on #00.
>   Yeah, that gives some people headaches, but those of us with bad
>   vision can't even use the less contrasty stuff.
> 
> * Big font for the terminals. Big enough that an 80x25 terminal
>   emulator should occupy considerably more than 1/4 of the monitor
>   area. Consider bold fonts. Ugly, but more readable to the
>   less-sighted.
> 
> * No friggin transparency!
> 
> * Window border width of 2px instead of 1px, colored very noticibly,
>

Re: [DNG] Refracta on Distrowatch

2016-10-17 Thread Steve Litt 
On Mon, 17 Oct 2016 13:49:34 + (UTC)
Go Linux  wrote:

> FYI . . . Refracta 8.0 gets a nice review on Distrowatch
> 
> http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20161017#refracta
> 
> Way to go fsmithred!
> 
> golinux

OK, NOW we're getting somewhere!

Robert Storey, the article's author, is on the DNG list. Cool!

About a month ago I had to forego the perfect opportunity to install
Refracta on real hardware (my father in law's laptop) because I didn't
know the stuff in this article. I got caught by the "no network" catch
22, didn't have the time to investigate, and defaulted to Void (which
isn't all that easy an install either).

Now, with Robert's article, I think I can do it next time. But I do
have some questions:

About finding which of the 18 wireless drivers to install, and how to
install them: The article mentions having a previous Debian/Devuan or
Ubuntu install and then type "dpkg --get-selections | grep firmware".
But what should one do if he/she has no such previous installation?

The article mentions:

===
That's fine, except that there are 18 possible drivers, and you might
not know which one to install. You really wouldn't want to install all
18. 
===

Why not? What disadvantages would accrue if I simply installed all 18?
I know doing so wouldn't be neat or crisp or geekily correct, but
wouldn't it enable me to simply get on with it? What would be the
disadvantage besides crudity?

And if I simply got on with it, couldn't I later perform:

dpkg --get-selections | grep firmware

and uninstall any drivers that don't get mentioned? If so, what
uninstall command would I use (the install seemed not to use apt-get)?


A COUPLE OTHER REFRACTA SUGGESTIONS

The Refracta I installed on the laptop was very hostile to those with
bad vision. It had this garish mostly orange and some black background
that camouflaged any desktop icons and even terminals. The terminals
were set to some low contrast thing like #aa on #00, with small
fonts, and transparency. Imagine how hard it was to read anything when
the garish background obscured the tiny, low contrast writing on the
terminal.

Pretty is nice, but pretty is a luxury for the well-sighted. Those of
us with lousy vision hugely prioritize legibility, which is usually a
direct tradeoff with pretty. There are times I can't read pretty enough
to configure it to legibility.

So I'd suggest a second theme for Refracta, either selectible at boot,
or runnable by a click on the top left desktop icon (remember, the user
might not be seeing the icon clearly enough to read it). The legibility
theme should feature:

* No background image. Just a straight #006600 color, no gradient.

* Terminal coloration either #00 on #ff or #ff on #00.
  Yeah, that gives some people headaches, but those of us with bad
  vision can't even use the less contrasty stuff.

* Big font for the terminals. Big enough that an 80x25 terminal
  emulator should occupy considerably more than 1/4 of the monitor
  area. Consider bold fonts. Ugly, but more readable to the
  less-sighted.

* No friggin transparency!

* Window border width of 2px instead of 1px, colored very noticibly,
  especially for the active window (I use #00 for the active window
  border and #66 for the inactive window border). No silly
  gradients on the titlebar: legibility for the poorly sighted demands
  a solid block recognizeable as such.

* Window title bar font big, similar to what I described for the
  terminal emulator font, and very contrasty with the window title bar
  background color. 

* Active window's titlebar *VERY* noticible at a moment's glance. My
  active titlebar has a background of #DD and foreground #CC.
  I'm not color blind, but if I were, I might prefer something like
  #00 on #FF. Ugly to most of us, but to a poorly-sighted
  colorblind person this would be a saving grace.

As you read this, it will sound horribly ugly to you, but please
remember it will be used by very few. Most people will use the standard
theme. The only purpose of this alternate theme is to help those whose
vision is so bad they can't afford pretty. And please remember, unless
this alternate theme is either default or dead-bang easy and intuitive
to get to, the poorly sighted person will not have the visual acuity to
navigate the standard theme enough to make their computer legible.

Thanks,

SteveT

Steve Litt 
September 2016 featured book: Twenty Eight Tales of Troubleshooting
http://www.troubleshooters.com/28


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Re: [DNG] Refracta on Distrowatch

2016-10-17 Thread Ozi Traveller 
+! an epic write up, well done fsr!! :)

Ozi

On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 3:21 AM, Clarke Sideroad 
wrote:

> On 10/17/2016 09:49 AM, Go Linux wrote:
>
>> FYI . . . Refracta 8.0 gets a nice review on Distrowatch
>>
>> http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20161017#refracta
>>
>> Way to go fsmithred!
>>
>
> +1 to the above.
>
> It looks like it is trending very well over there too.
>
> A lot more detailed and accurate than the recycled "review" at
> http://linux.softpedia.com/get/System/Operating-Systems/Linu
> x-Distributions/Refracta-102636.shtml
>
> I loaded and installed the 32 bit version on my Atom powered EeePC 1005HA
> netbook last night, all went well.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Clarke
>
>
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Re: [DNG] Refracta on Distrowatch

2016-10-17 Thread fsmithred 
On 10/17/2016 12:21 PM, Clarke Sideroad wrote:
> On 10/17/2016 09:49 AM, Go Linux wrote:
>> FYI . . . Refracta 8.0 gets a nice review on Distrowatch
>>
>> http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20161017#refracta
>>
>> Way to go fsmithred!
> 
> +1 to the above.
> 
> It looks like it is trending very well over there too.
> 
> A lot more detailed and accurate than the recycled "review" at
> http://linux.softpedia.com/get/System/Operating-Systems/Linux-Distributions/Refracta-102636.shtml
> 
> 
> I loaded and installed the 32 bit version on my Atom powered EeePC 1005HA
> netbook last night, all went well.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Clarke
> 
> 

Hey, the one at softpedia is a lot better than the one by the guy who
thinks he could do it with three minutes of desktop configuration,
starting with a default Devuan install. I won't even post a link for that.
No need to feed the google bot.

But the one by Robert is awesome. (Thanks again!)

fsmithred


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Re: [DNG] Refracta on Distrowatch

2016-10-17 Thread Clarke Sideroad 

On 10/17/2016 09:49 AM, Go Linux wrote:

FYI . . . Refracta 8.0 gets a nice review on Distrowatch

http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20161017#refracta

Way to go fsmithred!


+1 to the above.

It looks like it is trending very well over there too.

A lot more detailed and accurate than the recycled "review" at 
http://linux.softpedia.com/get/System/Operating-Systems/Linux-Distributions/Refracta-102636.shtml


I loaded and installed the 32 bit version on my Atom powered EeePC 
1005HA netbook last night, all went well.


Thanks,

Clarke


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Re: [DNG] Refracta on Distrowatch

2016-10-17 Thread aitor_czr 

Hi,

On 10/17/2016 05:25 PM, Go Linux  wrote:

FYI . . . Refracta 8.0 gets a nice review on Distrowatch

http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20161017#refracta

Way to go fsmithred!

golinux


GoLinux, there is section dedicated to the clock in the article of 
Distrowatch talking about refracta...


Thank you, thank you, thank you !!

  Aitor.


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