Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[Joel Roth]

KatolaZ wrote:
> I am working instead to include a runlevel with support for espeakout
> and brltty, which will require just a few megabytes and will be far
> more useful than zenity.

Glad to hear of this. I consider that support for the blind linux user community
should be a high priority.
 
> HND
> 
> KatolaZ
> 
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> [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ]
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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[David Hare]

I get the reluctance to mix dists. It's also not good to patch sytem
components without good reason (there was in that case)

However, live-* has always been a special case, designed to be
back-compatible and not have other "unstable deps". They even said
they won't support anyone using older versions.

Note newer (e.g. backport) kernels need newer live-* (aufs was dropped
for overlay)

D


On 16 May 2016 at 13:34, KatolaZ  wrote:
> On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 01:15:40PM +0100, David Hare wrote:
>> KatolaZ, FYI, I noticed your iso has empty /dev and a patched
>> /usr/share/initramfs-tools/init (and uses an older
>> refracta-snapshot)..
>>
>> That patch was a workaround in refracta-snapshot for bug(s) which only
>> last week got officially noted. The original file is still there but
>> renamed (this only affected live systems).
>>
>> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=823856
>> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=823069
>>
>> The problem *seems* sorted with the latest live-boot and
>> live-bootiinitramfs-tools  in unstable, although the original cause
>> appears to be a change in util-linux 2.25 ..
>>
>> It was anyway previously recommended to use live-* from unstable, even
>> if you run stable
>>
>
> Thanks a lot for the report David.
>
> If this is not a massive issue (i.e., if it does not introduce
> problems to the users of the minimal images), I would like the minimal
> images to use exactly the same packages we have in the repo, so that
> if it's a Jessie live, it would use only packages from Jessie. This is
> just to avoid dependency problems while building those images (and, to
> be honest, I have always had a personal idiosyncracy against mixing
> different repos...).
>
> I am now in the process of freezing and pushing the work I have done
> so far with the current version that uses refractasnapshot. Then I
> will produce an updated set of images which include much more stuff
> for the same price (96 MB of RAM, less than 250 MB of space).
>
> At the moment I am also considering other alternatives, e.g. using
> live-build on a debootsrapped chroot. This would save a good amount of
> space on the minimal image, would simplify the whole process, and
> would make it easier to customise things and to produce minimal live
> images also for the testing branch (ascii). But it will probably
> require a few days of spare time (or a couple of dreamless nights...)
> :)
>
> TTYL
>
> KatolaZ
>
> --
> [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ]
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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[KatolaZ]

On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 01:15:40PM +0100, David Hare wrote:
> KatolaZ, FYI, I noticed your iso has empty /dev and a patched
> /usr/share/initramfs-tools/init (and uses an older
> refracta-snapshot)..
> 
> That patch was a workaround in refracta-snapshot for bug(s) which only
> last week got officially noted. The original file is still there but
> renamed (this only affected live systems).
> 
> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=823856
> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=823069
> 
> The problem *seems* sorted with the latest live-boot and
> live-bootiinitramfs-tools  in unstable, although the original cause
> appears to be a change in util-linux 2.25 ..
> 
> It was anyway previously recommended to use live-* from unstable, even
> if you run stable
> 

Thanks a lot for the report David.

If this is not a massive issue (i.e., if it does not introduce
problems to the users of the minimal images), I would like the minimal
images to use exactly the same packages we have in the repo, so that
if it's a Jessie live, it would use only packages from Jessie. This is
just to avoid dependency problems while building those images (and, to
be honest, I have always had a personal idiosyncracy against mixing
different repos...).

I am now in the process of freezing and pushing the work I have done
so far with the current version that uses refractasnapshot. Then I
will produce an updated set of images which include much more stuff
for the same price (96 MB of RAM, less than 250 MB of space).

At the moment I am also considering other alternatives, e.g. using
live-build on a debootsrapped chroot. This would save a good amount of
space on the minimal image, would simplify the whole process, and
would make it easier to customise things and to produce minimal live
images also for the testing branch (ascii). But it will probably
require a few days of spare time (or a couple of dreamless nights...)
:)

TTYL

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[David Hare]

KatolaZ, FYI, I noticed your iso has empty /dev and a patched
/usr/share/initramfs-tools/init (and uses an older
refracta-snapshot)..

That patch was a workaround in refracta-snapshot for bug(s) which only
last week got officially noted. The original file is still there but
renamed (this only affected live systems).

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=823856
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=823069

The problem *seems* sorted with the latest live-boot and
live-bootiinitramfs-tools  in unstable, although the original cause
appears to be a change in util-linux 2.25 ..

It was anyway previously recommended to use live-* from unstable, even
if you run stable

D



D

On 15 May 2016 at 20:54, KatolaZ  wrote:
> On Sun, May 15, 2016 at 03:22:21PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 May 2016 17:09:34 -0400
>> ". fsmithred"  wrote:
>>
>> > Zenity is somewhat of a dependency hog. In Refracta, we abandoned it a
>> > couple years ago and replaced it with Yad.
>>
>> fsmithred,
>>
>> Thanks for reminding me of Zenity, and informing me of Yad. These
>> programs enable my shellscripts to present a GUI face to the user,
>> without all the scaffolding you need to do in PyGTk and the like.
>>
>> Given the nature of the average Devuan user, this could be a pretty
>> important capability.
>>
>
> I believe the "average" Devuan user would most probably not use a
> minimal live image anyway :) I have checked and indeed zenity is a
> dependency hell, which would install 194 more packages (we have less
> than 360 packages in total in the minimal Devuan image...) and would
> require about 300MB of additiona space (the unsquashed fs amounts to
> about 680 MB, in total). In a word, it looks like a bloat, at least in
> the context of *minimal* live images.
>
> I am working instead to include a runlevel with support for espeakout
> and brltty, which will require just a few megabytes and will be far
> more useful than zenity.
>
> HND
>
> KatolaZ
>
> --
> [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ]
> [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ]
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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[KatolaZ]

On Sun, May 15, 2016 at 03:22:21PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Sat, 14 May 2016 17:09:34 -0400
> ". fsmithred"  wrote:
> 
> > Zenity is somewhat of a dependency hog. In Refracta, we abandoned it a
> > couple years ago and replaced it with Yad.
> 
> fsmithred,
> 
> Thanks for reminding me of Zenity, and informing me of Yad. These
> programs enable my shellscripts to present a GUI face to the user,
> without all the scaffolding you need to do in PyGTk and the like.
> 
> Given the nature of the average Devuan user, this could be a pretty
> important capability.
> 

I believe the "average" Devuan user would most probably not use a
minimal live image anyway :) I have checked and indeed zenity is a
dependency hell, which would install 194 more packages (we have less
than 360 packages in total in the minimal Devuan image...) and would
require about 300MB of additiona space (the unsquashed fs amounts to
about 680 MB, in total). In a word, it looks like a bloat, at least in
the context of *minimal* live images.

I am working instead to include a runlevel with support for espeakout
and brltty, which will require just a few megabytes and will be far
more useful than zenity.

HND

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[Steve Litt]

On Sun, 15 May 2016 00:00:08 +0100
David Hare  wrote:


> That said, a "GUI Dialog" doesn't really fit a minimal system like
> this anyway.

I wouldn't count on that. For instance, Edward could have written his
network-manager killer in a shellscript plus Zenity or Yad, instead of
Lazarus. If he had, you'd need Zenity or Yad (depending on which he had
used) to run his program.
 
SteveT

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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[Steve Litt]

On Sat, 14 May 2016 17:09:34 -0400
". fsmithred"  wrote:

> Zenity is somewhat of a dependency hog. In Refracta, we abandoned it a
> couple years ago and replaced it with Yad.

fsmithred,

Thanks for reminding me of Zenity, and informing me of Yad. These
programs enable my shellscripts to present a GUI face to the user,
without all the scaffolding you need to do in PyGTk and the like.

Given the nature of the average Devuan user, this could be a pretty
important capability.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
May 2016 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century
http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21
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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[KatolaZ]

On Sat, May 14, 2016 at 08:28:18PM -0700, Gregory Nowak wrote:

[cut]

> 
> If besides basic sound support you can also add espeak/espeak-data,
> and espeakup, that should give speakup users another accessible livecd
> choice,
> assuming it is possible to boot this into a text console. I'll throw
> in brltty as well if I may.
> 

I will do my best to include all of them. If you have any other
suggestion concerning accessibility, it will be very welcome.

HND

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[Gregory Nowak]

On Sun, May 15, 2016 at 12:56:53AM +0100, KatolaZ wrote:
> I don't know whether you are correct or not :) It includes all the
> drivers shipped with the standatrd Devuan kernel (including alsa), but
> being a minimal image it does not have alsa-utils or other
> sound-related amenities (yet!).
> 
> More info and package lists can be found here:
> 
>   http://devuan.kalos.mine.nu

Ok, I'll take a look at that.

> Since the new images have now been stripped down further, thanks to
> the suggestion of using xz for the squashfs, I am now considering
> proposals for potential additions. I already have in the wishlist fbi,
> fbterm, mc, and a few more ncurses and fb-based utils, but including a
> basic support for sound might not be a bad idea, indeed.

If besides basic sound support you can also add espeak/espeak-data,
and espeakup, that should give speakup users another accessible livecd
choice,
assuming it is possible to boot this into a text console. I'll throw
in brltty as well if I may.

Greg


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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[KatolaZ]

On Sun, May 15, 2016 at 01:48:50AM +0200, aitor_czr wrote:

[cut]

> 
> I forgot 'dselect'...
>

It's already there, in the i386 image, but I will add it also to the
amd64.

> ... and that nauseating rotten mustard color...
> 

I have always used it in B/W, so I don't know which rotten mustard
color you are referring to :)

HND

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[KatolaZ]

On Sat, May 14, 2016 at 04:48:32PM -0700, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> On Sat, May 14, 2016 at 09:25:10PM +0100, KatolaZ wrote:
> > OK guys, I am happy to announce that after having put the default
> > initramfs on a strict diet (basically, removing useless modules and
> > libraries unnecessary at boot), the unofficial minimal live is able to
> > boot on just 96 MB of RAM :)
> 
> Exactly how minimal is this image? Am I correct that it doesn't
> include alsa/OSS drivers and utilities?
> 


I don't know whether you are correct or not :) It includes all the
drivers shipped with the standatrd Devuan kernel (including alsa), but
being a minimal image it does not have alsa-utils or other
sound-related amenities (yet!).

More info and package lists can be found here:

  http://devuan.kalos.mine.nu

but please consider that those images still require 256 MB of RAM to
boot (I have not yet uploaded the new images, which boot with 80 MB on
i386 and 96MB on amd64).

Since the new images have now been stripped down further, thanks to
the suggestion of using xz for the squashfs, I am now considering
proposals for potential additions. I already have in the wishlist fbi,
fbterm, mc, and a few more ncurses and fb-based utils, but including a
basic support for sound might not be a bad idea, indeed.

HND

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[aitor_czr]

Hi KatolaZ,

El 14/05/16 a las 22:41, KatolaZ  escribió:

OK guys, I am happy to announce that after having put the default
initramfs on a strict diet (basically, removing useless modules and
libraries unnecessary at boot), the unofficial minimal live is able to
boot on just 96 MB of RAM:)

We could probably work a bit more and reduce its foorptint further,
e.g. to fit in 64 MB, but indeed the surviving computers with less
than 96 MB of ram should be quite rare in these days, so I would
consider this like a good compromise.

Now I am going to implement the few things suggested here,
e.g. compressing the squashfs with xz, including zenity and a few more
"necessary" packages, etc.

Then I will put everyting together and upload the new images for
testing. In the meanwhile I will also create a project on our Gitlab,
with all the scripts I used in the process, and maybe some
documentation.

Thanks a lot for all your support.

HND

KatolaZ


I forgot 'dselect'...

... and that nauseating rotten mustard color...

LOL,

  Aitor.


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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[Gregory Nowak]

On Sat, May 14, 2016 at 09:25:10PM +0100, KatolaZ wrote:
> OK guys, I am happy to announce that after having put the default
> initramfs on a strict diet (basically, removing useless modules and
> libraries unnecessary at boot), the unofficial minimal live is able to
> boot on just 96 MB of RAM :)

Exactly how minimal is this image? Am I correct that it doesn't
include alsa/OSS drivers and utilities?

Greg


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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[David Hare]

+1 for ditching Zenity in all cases. It's gnome/gtk3 dependencies have
become monstrous and has very little in the way of new features in
recent "development".

Yad has been described as "zenity on steroids" but does not depend on
a load of gnome.

Yad is actually now in Debian Sid. We've been using it for a long time
for GUI stuff that is just not possible with Zenity.  No Debian
maintainer volunteered till recently but that version is
gtk3-dependant. However even the latest version builds with gtk2 (much
less overhead), I have done it and it works here in Devuan Jessie. I
would like to see it in Devuan repo.

That said, a "GUI Dialog" doesn't really fit a minimal system like this anyway.

D

On 14 May 2016 at 22:42, KatolaZ  wrote:
> On Sat, May 14, 2016 at 05:09:34PM -0400, . fsmithred wrote:
>> Zenity is somewhat of a dependency hog. In Refracta, we abandoned it a
>> couple years ago and replaced it with Yad.
>>
>> In devuan beta, zenity wants to pull in another 55mb of packages. In my
>> current refracta-jessie install, it wants to pull in 367mb of packages. Yad
>> pulls in nothing extra in devuan beta. It's not in the stable repo, but it
>> is now in unstable and maybe in testing. Yad also has more features than
>> zenity.
>>
>> repo:
>> http://debs.slavino.sk/
>>
>> current debs:
>> http://debs.slavino.sk/files-testing.php
>>
>> more versions:
>> http://debs.slavino.sk/pool/main/y/yad/
>>
>> -fsr
>>
>
> OK, then I think that zenity will stay out of the minimal live image
> :D
>
> After all, the scope of this minimal image is to have a *minimal*
> working system, for machines with limited resources and for rescue
> purposes.
>
> HND
>
> KatolaZ
>
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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[KatolaZ]

On Sat, May 14, 2016 at 05:09:34PM -0400, . fsmithred wrote:
> Zenity is somewhat of a dependency hog. In Refracta, we abandoned it a
> couple years ago and replaced it with Yad.
> 
> In devuan beta, zenity wants to pull in another 55mb of packages. In my
> current refracta-jessie install, it wants to pull in 367mb of packages. Yad
> pulls in nothing extra in devuan beta. It's not in the stable repo, but it
> is now in unstable and maybe in testing. Yad also has more features than
> zenity.
> 
> repo:
> http://debs.slavino.sk/
> 
> current debs:
> http://debs.slavino.sk/files-testing.php
> 
> more versions:
> http://debs.slavino.sk/pool/main/y/yad/
> 
> -fsr
> 

OK, then I think that zenity will stay out of the minimal live image
:D

After all, the scope of this minimal image is to have a *minimal*
working system, for machines with limited resources and for rescue
purposes.

HND

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[. fsmithred]

Zenity is somewhat of a dependency hog. In Refracta, we abandoned it a
couple years ago and replaced it with Yad.

In devuan beta, zenity wants to pull in another 55mb of packages. In my
current refracta-jessie install, it wants to pull in 367mb of packages. Yad
pulls in nothing extra in devuan beta. It's not in the stable repo, but it
is now in unstable and maybe in testing. Yad also has more features than
zenity.

repo:
http://debs.slavino.sk/

current debs:
http://debs.slavino.sk/files-testing.php

more versions:
http://debs.slavino.sk/pool/main/y/yad/

-fsr


On Sat, May 14, 2016 at 4:25 PM, KatolaZ  wrote:

> On Sat, May 14, 2016 at 01:53:25PM +0100, KatolaZ wrote:
>
> [cut]
>
> >
> > >
> > > Far as I know it's freed after switch_root but I assume the point here
> > > is what to do for very low-ram systems..
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Well, I believe that most of the standard stuff in the initramfs can
> > be discarded in our specific case. I will keep you posted.
> >
>
>
> OK guys, I am happy to announce that after having put the default
> initramfs on a strict diet (basically, removing useless modules and
> libraries unnecessary at boot), the unofficial minimal live is able to
> boot on just 96 MB of RAM :)
>
> We could probably work a bit more and reduce its foorptint further,
> e.g. to fit in 64 MB, but indeed the surviving computers with less
> than 96 MB of ram should be quite rare in these days, so I would
> consider this like a good compromise.
>
> Now I am going to implement the few things suggested here,
> e.g. compressing the squashfs with xz, including zenity and a few more
> "necessary" packages, etc.
>
> Then I will put everyting together and upload the new images for
> testing. In the meanwhile I will also create a project on our Gitlab,
> with all the scripts I used in the process, and maybe some
> documentation.
>
> Thanks a lot for all your support.
>
> HND
>
> KatolaZ
>
> --
> [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ]
> [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ]
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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[KatolaZ]

On Sat, May 14, 2016 at 01:53:25PM +0100, KatolaZ wrote:

[cut]

> 
> > 
> > Far as I know it's freed after switch_root but I assume the point here
> > is what to do for very low-ram systems..
> > 
> > 
> 
> Well, I believe that most of the standard stuff in the initramfs can
> be discarded in our specific case. I will keep you posted.
> 


OK guys, I am happy to announce that after having put the default
initramfs on a strict diet (basically, removing useless modules and
libraries unnecessary at boot), the unofficial minimal live is able to
boot on just 96 MB of RAM :)

We could probably work a bit more and reduce its foorptint further,
e.g. to fit in 64 MB, but indeed the surviving computers with less
than 96 MB of ram should be quite rare in these days, so I would
consider this like a good compromise.

Now I am going to implement the few things suggested here,
e.g. compressing the squashfs with xz, including zenity and a few more
"necessary" packages, etc.

Then I will put everyting together and upload the new images for
testing. In the meanwhile I will also create a project on our Gitlab,
with all the scripts I used in the process, and maybe some
documentation.

Thanks a lot for all your support. 

HND

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[hellekin]

On 05/13/2016 04:30 PM, David Hare wrote:
>
> http://paste.debian.net/683478
> 

Great!  Would you consider putting it on
https://talk.devuan.org/c/study?  If you need help, please tell me.

I guess you can replace line 17:

if ! (dpkg -l | grep "^ii" | grep "grub-efi-amd64" |grep -v "bin"); then

with:

if ! (dpkg -l grub-efi-amd64 | grep "^ii"); then


Cheers,

==
hk

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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[aitor_czr]

El 14/05/16 a las 17:30, KatolaZ  escribió:

On Sat, May 14, 2016 at 01:35:51PM +0100, David Hare wrote:

> >Concretely:
> >
> >  199,6 MiB (209.297.408 bytes)
> >
> >Isn't it?

>
>actually, here it shows 198.1MB (207,740,928 B)
>
>However my repack script is currently set to remove *.pyo and *.pyc
>(to save space). Also, i never seem to get exactly the same result
>from mksquashfs, even with exactly the same input files.
>

Well, this is not a problem indeed, since 200MB or 250MB might not
make such a massive difference, but having a smaller image would allow
us to include some extra stuff, e.g. more recovery tools and some
eyecandy (e.g, mc :P).

StayTuned

KatolaZ


And what about zenity and the backend of simple-netaid?

  Aitor.
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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[KatolaZ]

On Sat, May 14, 2016 at 01:35:51PM +0100, David Hare wrote:
> >Concretely:
> >
> >  199,6 MiB (209.297.408 bytes)
> >
> >Isn't it?
> 
> actually, here it shows 198.1MB (207,740,928 B)
> 
> However my repack script is currently set to remove *.pyo and *.pyc
> (to save space). Also, i never seem to get exactly the same result
> from mksquashfs, even with exactly the same input files.
> 

Well, this is not a problem indeed, since 200MB or 250MB might not
make such a massive difference, but having a smaller image would allow
us to include some extra stuff, e.g. more recovery tools and some
eyecandy (e.g, mc :P).

StayTuned

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[David Hare]

>Concretely:
>
>  199,6 MiB (209.297.408 bytes)
>
>Isn't it?

actually, here it shows 198.1MB (207,740,928 B)

However my repack script is currently set to remove *.pyo and *.pyc
(to save space). Also, i never seem to get exactly the same result
from mksquashfs, even with exactly the same input files.

D

On 14 May 2016 at 13:25, David Hare  wrote:
> The standard Debian initrd has grown enormously since the days of squeeze..
>
> The devuan-minimal iso's initrd is 27.1 MB gzip-compressed, 18.6
> xz-compressed and.. 186.1MB unpacked!
>
> Far as I know it's freed after switch_root but I assume the point here
> is what to do for very low-ram systems..
>
>
> D
>
> On 14 May 2016 at 12:39, . fsmithred  wrote:
>> I was able to boot the minimal i386 in virtualbox with 175mb ram, but not
>> with 170 or less.
>>
>> I'm a little surprised that it wants all that. Back in the days of Squeeze,
>> I was able to boot an older version of Refracta (with e17, put together by
>> meandean) and whatever version of Antix was current then with only 64mb ram
>> on hardware. Has the initrd grown that much since then?
>>
>>
>> On Sat, May 14, 2016 at 7:32 AM, David Hare  wrote:
>>>
>>> I look forward to your findings on initrd and RAM. Another point of
>>> interest, I repacked again with the uefi files (4MB) generated by the
>>> script I posted yesterday. It boots efi-mode in qemu
>>> (/sys/firmware/efi is present)
>>>
>>> D
>>>
>>> On 14 May 2016 at 12:05, KatolaZ  wrote:
>>> > On Sat, May 14, 2016 at 11:45:31AM +0100, David Hare wrote:
>>> >> KatolaZ, you may be interested to know, I repacked your iso to 199MB
>>> >> (with no actual system modifications) by using xz compression for the
>>> >> squashfs and initrd. The result booted fine in qemu. The extra
>>> >> decompression time is only a few seconds.
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > Thanks David,
>>> >
>>> > this was something I had in the todolist, and is great to know that it
>>> > squeezes things so much. I am going to implement it for the next
>>> > release.  Unfortunately, this will not solve the problem with RAM
>>> > requirement due to initrd, but I might have news on that front later
>>> > on today :)
>>> >
>>> > HND
>>> >
>>> > KatolaZ
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ]
>>> > [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ]
>>> > [ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ]
>>> > [ Fingerprint: 8E59 D6AA 445E FDB4 A153 3D5A 5F20 B3AE 0B5F 062F ]
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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[David Hare]

The standard Debian initrd has grown enormously since the days of squeeze..

The devuan-minimal iso's initrd is 27.1 MB gzip-compressed, 18.6
xz-compressed and.. 186.1MB unpacked!

Far as I know it's freed after switch_root but I assume the point here
is what to do for very low-ram systems..


D

On 14 May 2016 at 12:39, . fsmithred  wrote:
> I was able to boot the minimal i386 in virtualbox with 175mb ram, but not
> with 170 or less.
>
> I'm a little surprised that it wants all that. Back in the days of Squeeze,
> I was able to boot an older version of Refracta (with e17, put together by
> meandean) and whatever version of Antix was current then with only 64mb ram
> on hardware. Has the initrd grown that much since then?
>
>
> On Sat, May 14, 2016 at 7:32 AM, David Hare  wrote:
>>
>> I look forward to your findings on initrd and RAM. Another point of
>> interest, I repacked again with the uefi files (4MB) generated by the
>> script I posted yesterday. It boots efi-mode in qemu
>> (/sys/firmware/efi is present)
>>
>> D
>>
>> On 14 May 2016 at 12:05, KatolaZ  wrote:
>> > On Sat, May 14, 2016 at 11:45:31AM +0100, David Hare wrote:
>> >> KatolaZ, you may be interested to know, I repacked your iso to 199MB
>> >> (with no actual system modifications) by using xz compression for the
>> >> squashfs and initrd. The result booted fine in qemu. The extra
>> >> decompression time is only a few seconds.
>> >>
>> >
>> > Thanks David,
>> >
>> > this was something I had in the todolist, and is great to know that it
>> > squeezes things so much. I am going to implement it for the next
>> > release.  Unfortunately, this will not solve the problem with RAM
>> > requirement due to initrd, but I might have news on that front later
>> > on today :)
>> >
>> > HND
>> >
>> > KatolaZ
>> >
>> > --
>> > [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ]
>> > [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ]
>> > [ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ]
>> > [ Fingerprint: 8E59 D6AA 445E FDB4 A153 3D5A 5F20 B3AE 0B5F 062F ]
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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[aitor_czr]

El 14/05/16 a las 12:45, David Hare escribió:
KatolaZ, you may be interested to know, I repacked your iso to 199MB 
(with no actual system modifications) by using xz compression for the 
squashfs and initrd. The result booted fine in qemu. The extra 
decompression time is only a few seconds.


Concretely:

  199,6 MiB (209.297.408 bytes)

Isn't it?

  Aitor.
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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[. fsmithred]

I was able to boot the minimal i386 in virtualbox with 175mb ram, but not
with 170 or less.

I'm a little surprised that it wants all that. Back in the days of Squeeze,
I was able to boot an older version of Refracta (with e17, put together by
meandean) and whatever version of Antix was current then with only 64mb ram
on hardware. Has the initrd grown that much since then?


On Sat, May 14, 2016 at 7:32 AM, David Hare  wrote:

> I look forward to your findings on initrd and RAM. Another point of
> interest, I repacked again with the uefi files (4MB) generated by the
> script I posted yesterday. It boots efi-mode in qemu
> (/sys/firmware/efi is present)
>
> D
>
> On 14 May 2016 at 12:05, KatolaZ  wrote:
> > On Sat, May 14, 2016 at 11:45:31AM +0100, David Hare wrote:
> >> KatolaZ, you may be interested to know, I repacked your iso to 199MB
> >> (with no actual system modifications) by using xz compression for the
> >> squashfs and initrd. The result booted fine in qemu. The extra
> >> decompression time is only a few seconds.
> >>
> >
> > Thanks David,
> >
> > this was something I had in the todolist, and is great to know that it
> > squeezes things so much. I am going to implement it for the next
> > release.  Unfortunately, this will not solve the problem with RAM
> > requirement due to initrd, but I might have news on that front later
> > on today :)
> >
> > HND
> >
> > KatolaZ
> >
> > --
> > [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ]
> > [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ]
> > [ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ]
> > [ Fingerprint: 8E59 D6AA 445E FDB4 A153 3D5A 5F20 B3AE 0B5F 062F ]
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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[David Hare]

I look forward to your findings on initrd and RAM. Another point of
interest, I repacked again with the uefi files (4MB) generated by the
script I posted yesterday. It boots efi-mode in qemu
(/sys/firmware/efi is present)

D

On 14 May 2016 at 12:05, KatolaZ  wrote:
> On Sat, May 14, 2016 at 11:45:31AM +0100, David Hare wrote:
>> KatolaZ, you may be interested to know, I repacked your iso to 199MB
>> (with no actual system modifications) by using xz compression for the
>> squashfs and initrd. The result booted fine in qemu. The extra
>> decompression time is only a few seconds.
>>
>
> Thanks David,
>
> this was something I had in the todolist, and is great to know that it
> squeezes things so much. I am going to implement it for the next
> release.  Unfortunately, this will not solve the problem with RAM
> requirement due to initrd, but I might have news on that front later
> on today :)
>
> HND
>
> KatolaZ
>
> --
> [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ]
> [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ]
> [ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ]
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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[KatolaZ]

On Sat, May 14, 2016 at 11:45:31AM +0100, David Hare wrote:
> KatolaZ, you may be interested to know, I repacked your iso to 199MB
> (with no actual system modifications) by using xz compression for the
> squashfs and initrd. The result booted fine in qemu. The extra
> decompression time is only a few seconds.
> 

Thanks David,

this was something I had in the todolist, and is great to know that it
squeezes things so much. I am going to implement it for the next
release.  Unfortunately, this will not solve the problem with RAM
requirement due to initrd, but I might have news on that front later
on today :)

HND

KatolaZ

-- 
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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[David Hare]

KatolaZ, you may be interested to know, I repacked your iso to 199MB
(with no actual system modifications) by using xz compression for the
squashfs and initrd. The result booted fine in qemu. The extra
decompression time is only a few seconds.

On 14 May 2016 at 08:34, aitor_czr  wrote:
>
>
> On 05/13/2016 12:06 AM, Florian Zieboll  wrote:
>>>
>>> Sorry for my two latest emails. The date was wrong again... It's due
>>> >to the BIOS of one concrete computer.
>>
>> Hi Aitor,
>>
>> if you run openntpd, you could set the '-s' flag under DAEMON_OPTS
>> in /etc/default/openntpd to force time synchronization at boot, see
>> openntpd(8). Works fine for my RPi which otherwise fails to start
>> dnssec'ed unbound, because it can't verify the root trust anchor.
>>
>> Florian
>
>
> Thanks Florian, i use several hard disks and i have to discover wich of them
> changes the date in the bios.
>
> Cheers,
>
>   Aitor.
>
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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[Joel Roth]

KatolaZ wrote:
Joel Roth wrote:

> > You can also join the user to the kvm group:
> > 
> > ls -l /dev/kvm
> > 
> > crw-rw+ 1 root kvm 10, 232 May 11 11:02 /dev/kvm
> > 
> > btw, 'c' means character mode device. Does anyone know what
> > the '+' suffix means, and how you set it? 
> > 
> 
> The "+" means that you have an ACL (Access Control List) set for that
> file. You manage ACLs with setfacl and getfacl.

Interesting, because of the ACL settings I didn't need to
use root nor join the kvm group:

$ getfacl /dev/kvm
getfacl: Removing leading '/' from absolute path names
# file: dev/kvm
# owner: root
# group: kvm
user::rw-
user:jroth:rw-
group::rw-
mask::rw-
other::---

I hope these ACLs are used sparingly in Devuan/Debian. The permissions model
itself has taken a long time for me to grok.

Hmm, so why do files like /etc/apt/sources.list have ACLs?
Oh, I see they change automagically when permissions change.
Guess I'll look for a tutorial somewheres.

I'd thought ACL was something I could ignore, like selinux,
without consequence.

I think of the analogy with the suprise nay frustration I
faced when settings in /etc/someapp not working as expected
because of stuff in /etc/default/someapp I hadn't known
about.

cheers,

Joel
 
> HND
> 
> KatolaZ
> 
> -- 
> [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ]
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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[KatolaZ]

On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 02:11:53AM -1000, Joel Roth wrote:

[cut]

> 
> An article points out that allowing users to allocate
> arbitrary amounts of physical memory may not be the best
> policy in some environments.
>  
> You can also join the user to the kvm group:
> 
> ls -l /dev/kvm
> 
> crw-rw+ 1 root kvm 10, 232 May 11 11:02 /dev/kvm
> 
> 
> btw, 'c' means character mode device. Does anyone know what
> the '+' suffix means, and how you set it? 
> 

The "+" means that you have an ACL (Access Control List) set for that
file. You manage ACLs with setfacl and getfacl.

HND

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[Joel Roth]

On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 12:56:01PM +0100, KatolaZ wrote:
> On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 01:46:20AM -1000, Joel Roth wrote:
> > David Hare wrote:
> > > This and similar live iso's only work here in qemu with e.g. " -m 384".
> > > 
> > > My hardware can't handle kvm.
> > 
> > Even running as root?
> > 
> 
> Well, it should be sufficient to
> 
> # chmod 666 /dev/kvm
> 
> in order to provide kvm support to regular users.

An article points out that allowing users to allocate
arbitrary amounts of physical memory may not be the best
policy in some environments.
 
You can also join the user to the kvm group:

ls -l /dev/kvm

crw-rw+ 1 root kvm 10, 232 May 11 11:02 /dev/kvm


btw, 'c' means character mode device. Does anyone know what
the '+' suffix means, and how you set it? 

Joel

> My2Cents
> 
> KatolaZ
> 
> -- 
> [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ]
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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[KatolaZ]

On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 01:46:20AM -1000, Joel Roth wrote:
> David Hare wrote:
> > This and similar live iso's only work here in qemu with e.g. " -m 384".
> > 
> > My hardware can't handle kvm.
> 
> Even running as root?
> 

Well, it should be sufficient to

# chmod 666 /dev/kvm

in order to provide kvm support to regular users.

My2Cents

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[Joel Roth]

David Hare wrote:
> This and similar live iso's only work here in qemu with e.g. " -m 384".
> 
> My hardware can't handle kvm.

Even running as root?

> D
> 
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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[Jaromil]

ahoy,

On Wed, 11 May 2016, KatolaZ wrote:

> The results of those experiments can be found here:
> 
>   http://devuan.kalos.mine.nu/

happy to see this :^)

one Q: can you change the format of the list here
http://devuan.kalos.mine.nu/iso/old/devuan-1.0-beta-minimal-unofficial-20160511_1204.iso_dpkg_get_selections

and include package versions on the second column?

ciao!

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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[Joel Roth]

KatolaZ wrote:
[snip]
> > > I am currently running it mainly from qemu. My line looks like this:
> > > 
> > > qemu-system-x86_64 -cdrom 
> > > devuan-1.0-beta-minimal-unofficial-20160511_1204.iso -boot d -m 256\
> > >-localtime --enable-kvm -net nic -net user,hostfwd=tcp::5556-:22
> > > 
> > > and it works...
> > 
> > For me, too :-) 
> 
> 
> Great. Any feedback will be very welcome. Yesterday I worked a bit on
> a version with framebuffer support and a few more utils suggested by
> other devuaners. I have also put together an i386 image, which I am
> now uploading. I will post an update in due course.

Documenting the qemu invocation will help. I haven't used
qemu lately and had forgotten about the -boot d argument,
which is probably what makes the difference here.

I was interested to learn that I can likely boot linux
liveCDs on Intel Macs, and look forward to adding this small
distro to my backup and rescue tools.

Joel
 
> HND
> 
> KatolaZ
> 
> -- 
> [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ]
> [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ]
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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[KatolaZ]

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 09:20:06PM -1000, Joel Roth wrote:
> On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 07:57:54AM +0100, KatolaZ wrote:
> > On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 08:43:09PM -1000, Joel Roth wrote:
> > 
> > [cut]
> > 
> > > 
> > > Hi, I got it. It it possible to run from qemu? Running with
> > > this vanilla command line panics with message "no working init found".
> > > 
> > > sudo qemu-system-x86_64 --enable-kvm -cdrom 
> > > devuan-1.0-beta-minimal-unofficial-20160511_1204.iso
> > >
> > 
> > Hi Joel,
> > 
> > I am currently running it mainly from qemu. My line looks like this:
> > 
> > qemu-system-x86_64 -cdrom 
> > devuan-1.0-beta-minimal-unofficial-20160511_1204.iso -boot d -m 256\
> >-localtime --enable-kvm -net nic -net user,hostfwd=tcp::5556-:22
> > 
> > and it works...
> 
> For me, too :-) 


Great. Any feedback will be very welcome. Yesterday I worked a bit on
a version with framebuffer support and a few more utils suggested by
other devuaners. I have also put together an i386 image, which I am
now uploading. I will post an update in due course.

HND

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[KatolaZ]

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 08:43:09PM -1000, Joel Roth wrote:

[cut]

> 
> Hi, I got it. It it possible to run from qemu? Running with
> this vanilla command line panics with message "no working init found".
> 
> sudo qemu-system-x86_64 --enable-kvm -cdrom 
> devuan-1.0-beta-minimal-unofficial-20160511_1204.iso
>

Hi Joel,

I am currently running it mainly from qemu. My line looks like this:

qemu-system-x86_64 -cdrom devuan-1.0-beta-minimal-unofficial-20160511_1204.iso 
-boot d -m 256\
   -localtime --enable-kvm -net nic -net user,hostfwd=tcp::5556-:22

and it works...


> > HND
> 
> Holy North Dakota?
> Happy New Devuan?
> Hope now does?
> Horizontal Naked Dance?
> Haneda Airport?
>  

Have a Nice Day ;)

HND

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[Joel Roth]

On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 06:58:15AM +0100, KatolaZ wrote:
> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 05:40:57PM -1000, Joel Roth wrote:
> > On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 10:52:41PM +0100, KatolaZ wrote:
> > > Dear Devuaners,
> > > 
> > > inspired by the recent thread about unofficial devuan live images
> > > obtained with refracta tools, in the last few days I have been
> > > experimenting with a small-footprint version of Devuan Jessie Beta. My
> > > goal was to obtain a fully functional minimal system using standard
> > > Devuan packages and less than 250 MB. The main purpose would be a
> > > minimal system to put on a small USB key or on a card CDROM.
> > > 
> > > The results of those experiments can be found here:
> > > 
> > >   http://devuan.kalos.mine.nu/
> > 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > The link provided on this page doesn't resolve:
> > 
> > http://devuan.kalos.mine.nu/iso/devuan-1.0-beta-minimal-unofficial-20160511_1204.iso
> > 
> 
> Sorry, I was playing around with two new images. Please try now. The
> link for that image is:
> 
> http://devuan.kalos.mine.nu/iso/old/devuan-1.0-beta-minimal-unofficial-20160511_1204.iso

Hi, I got it. It it possible to run from qemu? Running with
this vanilla command line panics with message "no working init found".

sudo qemu-system-x86_64 --enable-kvm -cdrom 
devuan-1.0-beta-minimal-unofficial-20160511_1204.iso
 
> HND

Holy North Dakota?
Happy New Devuan?
Hope now does?
Horizontal Naked Dance?
Haneda Airport?
 
> KatolaZ
> 
> -- 
> [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ]
> [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ]
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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[KatolaZ]

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 05:40:57PM -1000, Joel Roth wrote:
> On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 10:52:41PM +0100, KatolaZ wrote:
> > Dear Devuaners,
> > 
> > inspired by the recent thread about unofficial devuan live images
> > obtained with refracta tools, in the last few days I have been
> > experimenting with a small-footprint version of Devuan Jessie Beta. My
> > goal was to obtain a fully functional minimal system using standard
> > Devuan packages and less than 250 MB. The main purpose would be a
> > minimal system to put on a small USB key or on a card CDROM.
> > 
> > The results of those experiments can be found here:
> > 
> >   http://devuan.kalos.mine.nu/
> 
> Hi,
> 
> The link provided on this page doesn't resolve:
> 
> http://devuan.kalos.mine.nu/iso/devuan-1.0-beta-minimal-unofficial-20160511_1204.iso
> 

Sorry, I was playing around with two new images. Please try now. The
link for that image is:

http://devuan.kalos.mine.nu/iso/old/devuan-1.0-beta-minimal-unofficial-20160511_1204.iso

HND

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[Joel Roth]

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 10:52:41PM +0100, KatolaZ wrote:
> Dear Devuaners,
> 
> inspired by the recent thread about unofficial devuan live images
> obtained with refracta tools, in the last few days I have been
> experimenting with a small-footprint version of Devuan Jessie Beta. My
> goal was to obtain a fully functional minimal system using standard
> Devuan packages and less than 250 MB. The main purpose would be a
> minimal system to put on a small USB key or on a card CDROM.
> 
> The results of those experiments can be found here:
> 
>   http://devuan.kalos.mine.nu/

Hi,

The link provided on this page doesn't resolve:

http://devuan.kalos.mine.nu/iso/devuan-1.0-beta-minimal-unofficial-20160511_1204.iso

-- 
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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[Svante Signell]

On Thu, 2016-05-12 at 22:59 +0200, Florian Zieboll wrote:
> On Thu, 12 May 2016 10:49:15 +0200
> aitor_czr  wrote:
> 
> > Sorry for my two latest emails. The date was wrong again... It's
> > due
> > to the BIOS of one concrete computer.
> 
> 
> Hi Aitor,
> 
> if you run openntpd, you could set the '-s' flag under DAEMON_OPTS
> in /etc/default/openntpd to force time synchronization at boot, see
> openntpd(8). Works fine for my RPi which otherwise fails to start
> dnssec'ed unbound, because it can't verify the root trust anchor.

ntpdate/ntpdate-debian/ntpd is also available to regularly update the
time of your box.
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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[Florian Zieboll]

On Thu, 12 May 2016 10:49:15 +0200
aitor_czr  wrote:

> Sorry for my two latest emails. The date was wrong again... It's due
> to the BIOS of one concrete computer.


Hi Aitor,

if you run openntpd, you could set the '-s' flag under DAEMON_OPTS
in /etc/default/openntpd to force time synchronization at boot, see
openntpd(8). Works fine for my RPi which otherwise fails to start
dnssec'ed unbound, because it can't verify the root trust anchor.

Florian
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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[KatolaZ]

On Thu, Mar 04, 2021 at 01:11:19AM +0100, aitor_czr wrote:
> 
> On 12/05/16 09:34, KatolaZ wrote:
> >>rpl
> >>curl
> >I can't see the need for rpl in a minimal install, to be honest:)  I
> >might probably consider curl, even if you have wget and netcat in
> >there already.
> >
> >Thanks for all the comments.
> >
> >KatolaZ
> 
> I proposed rpl because i use a script in devuan-installer wich
> depends on it.
> 

OK. I will put it in the wishlist then :)

HND

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[aitor_czr]

On 05/12/2016 10:43 AM, aitor_czr  wrote:

On 12/05/16 09:34, KatolaZ wrote:

>>rpl
>>curl

>I can't see the need for rpl in a minimal install, to be honest:)  I
>might probably consider curl, even if you have wget and netcat in
>there already.
>
>Thanks for all the comments.
>
>KatolaZ

I proposed rpl because i use a script in devuan-installer wich depends
on it.

Aitor.


Sorry for my two latest emails. The date was wrong again... It's due to 
the BIOS of one concrete computer.


I'm aware that it can be quite annoying. I'll be carefull.

  Aitor.
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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[aitor_czr]

On 12/05/16 09:34, KatolaZ wrote:

rpl
curl

I can't see the need for rpl in a minimal install, to be honest:)  I
might probably consider curl, even if you have wget and netcat in
there already.

Thanks for all the comments.

KatolaZ


I proposed rpl because i use a script in devuan-installer wich depends 
on it.


  Aitor.
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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[aitor_czr]

On 12/05/16 09:36, aitor_czr > wrote:

But keep in mind that the size of the iso will increment a little,
>due to the .udeb packages.


*increase* a little :)

  Aitor.

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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[Daniel Reurich]

On 12/05/16 19:20, aitor_czr wrote:
> 
> 
> On 05/12/2016 08:09 AM, KatolaZ  wrote:
>>> debootstrap --minbase would be a good place to start, rather than
>>> ripping
>>> >down an existing image.
>>> >
>>> >I know this is possible with live build.
>>> >
>> I had tried that in the past, with a previous Debian stable, and I
>> still got a lot of garbage installed at that time. But I will give it
>> a try again, since it would be easier to customise.
>>
>> HND
>>
>> KatolaZ
> 
> What about adding debian installer to it?
> 
> But keep in mind that the size of the iso will increment a little, due
> to the .udeb packages.
> 
just debootstrap would be enough for that.



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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[KatolaZ]

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 09:20:54AM +0200, aitor_czr wrote:
> 
> 
> On 05/12/2016 08:09 AM, KatolaZ  wrote:
> >>debootstrap --minbase would be a good place to start, rather than ripping
> >>>down an existing image.
> >>>
> >>>I know this is possible with live build.
> >>>
> >I had tried that in the past, with a previous Debian stable, and I
> >still got a lot of garbage installed at that time. But I will give it
> >a try again, since it would be easier to customise.
> >
> >HND
> >
> >KatolaZ
> 
> What about adding debian installer to it?
> 
> But keep in mind that the size of the iso will increment a little,
> due to the .udeb packages.
> 

In principle you can already install it using refractainstaller, which
is shipped with the image, but I haven't tested it so far. My original
idea was to have an ISO for a live system, stripped down to the bare
minimum but with all the *necessary* stuff in place, and with the
smallest possible footprint.

HND

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[KatolaZ]

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 09:13:23AM +0200, aitor_czr wrote:

[cut]

> 
> Thanks, KatolaZ !
> 
> I'll have a look at the list of packages. I would propose, for example:
> 
> locales

already there.

> util-linux-locales

always hated that :D

> user-setup

already there.

> console-setup

already there.

> rpl
> curl

I can't see the need for rpl in a minimal install, to be honest :) I
might probably consider curl, even if you have wget and netcat in
there already.

Thanks for all the comments.

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[aitor_czr]

On 05/12/2016 08:09 AM, KatolaZ  wrote:

debootstrap --minbase would be a good place to start, rather than ripping
>down an existing image.
>
>I know this is possible with live build.
>

I had tried that in the past, with a previous Debian stable, and I
still got a lot of garbage installed at that time. But I will give it
a try again, since it would be easier to customise.

HND

KatolaZ


What about adding debian installer to it?

But keep in mind that the size of the iso will increment a little, due 
to the .udeb packages.


  Aitor.


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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[aitor_czr]

On 05/12/2016 02:30 AM, KatolaZ  wrote:

Dear Devuaners,

inspired by the recent thread about unofficial devuan live images
obtained with refracta tools, in the last few days I have been
experimenting with a small-footprint version of Devuan Jessie Beta. My
goal was to obtain a fully functional minimal system using standard
Devuan packages and less than 250 MB. The main purpose would be a
minimal system to put on a small USB key or on a card CDROM.

The results of those experiments can be found here:

   http://devuan.kalos.mine.nu/

It is a minimal UNOFFICIAL live ISO image of Devuan Jessie Beta, which
includes a few ncurses-based personal productivity packages, a couple
of editors, basic versions of perl and python, and some additional
stuff. Nothing more. No bloat. No X. Even if I am considering adding
Xorg + DWM, at the cost of a few more megabytes.

The image boots in a few seconds, and should run on anything amd64
with more than 64MB of RAM. I will probably provide also an i386
image.

Please feel free to try it and send comments and/or suggestions. I
will now try to understand how the whole process can be simplified
using the devuan sdk.

HH

KatolaZ


Thanks, KatolaZ !

I'll have a look at the list of packages. I would propose, for example:

locales
util-linux-locales
user-setup
console-setup
rpl
curl

Cheers,

  Aitor
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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[KatolaZ]

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 11:35:44AM +1000, Ozi Traveller wrote:
> debootstrap --minbase would be a good place to start, rather than ripping
> down an existing image.
> 
> I know this is possible with live build.
> 

I had tried that in the past, with a previous Debian stable, and I
still got a lot of garbage installed at that time. But I will give it
a try again, since it would be easier to customise.

HND

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[KatolaZ]

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 02:18:55AM +0100, David Hare wrote:
> Nice, well done. I always keep an installed minimal system. Only got
> it going in qemu so far.. free -m (for what it's worth) shows 130 used
> (5 17 74 shared buffers cache)
> 

On qemu it shows:

 total used free shared bufferscached
  242   238   40   28171
-/+ buff/cache:  37 204

Hence the used memory is 38MB, of which 28M are used by kernel
buffers. So userland is using about 10MB, ATM.

HND

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[KatolaZ]

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 02:18:55AM +0100, David Hare wrote:
> Nice, well done. I always keep an installed minimal system. Only got
> it going in qemu so far.. free -m (for what it's worth) shows 130 used
> (5 17 74 shared buffers cache)
> 
> Had to guess user login and pw, it was devuan devuan.

Sorry, I have updated the description. The regular user is
devuan/devuan. The root is root/toor.

> 
> Couldn't get root. You forgot to put "username=devuan" on the cmdline!
> I rebooted and did that manually at the isolinux prompt then could use
> "sudo su".
> 
> Is a root password set?

yes, see above.

> 
> I don't have a US keyboard but failed to set mine (UK) There was no
> /usr/share/keymaps ..
>

Thanks for noting this. I will put keymaps in the todolist :)

HND

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[Ozi Traveller]

AWESOME!

I like the way this is going!!!

And ideal for the raspberry pi, and maybe a docker image too!

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 7:52 AM, KatolaZ  wrote:

> Dear Devuaners,
>
> inspired by the recent thread about unofficial devuan live images
> obtained with refracta tools, in the last few days I have been
> experimenting with a small-footprint version of Devuan Jessie Beta. My
> goal was to obtain a fully functional minimal system using standard
> Devuan packages and less than 250 MB. The main purpose would be a
> minimal system to put on a small USB key or on a card CDROM.
>
> The results of those experiments can be found here:
>
>   http://devuan.kalos.mine.nu/
>
> It is a minimal UNOFFICIAL live ISO image of Devuan Jessie Beta, which
> includes a few ncurses-based personal productivity packages, a couple
> of editors, basic versions of perl and python, and some additional
> stuff. Nothing more. No bloat. No X. Even if I am considering adding
> Xorg + DWM, at the cost of a few more megabytes.
>
> The image boots in a few seconds, and should run on anything amd64
> with more than 64MB of RAM. I will probably provide also an i386
> image.
>
> Please feel free to try it and send comments and/or suggestions. I
> will now try to understand how the whole process can be simplified
> using the devuan sdk.
>
> HH
>
> KatolaZ
>
> --
> [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ]
> [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ]
> [ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ]
> [ Fingerprint: 8E59 D6AA 445E FDB4 A153 3D5A 5F20 B3AE 0B5F 062F ]
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