Re: [dns-privacy] Murray Kucherawy's Yes on draft-ietf-dprive-bcp-op-12: (with COMMENT)

[Murray S. Kucherawy]

On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 1:40 AM Sara Dickinson  wrote:

> > I suggest getting rid of use of BCP 14 entirely.  There are only two
> SHOULDs in
> > the whole thing, and I don't think you need them.
>
> This point has been discussed a few times - the WG considered a few
> alternatives and this was what eventually got consensus. We also added new
> text in the -12 version (suggested by Ben Kudak) at the end of section 5 to
> clarify the point that there are normative requirements here:  “The rest of
> this document does not use normative language but instead refers only to
> the three differing classes of action which correspond to the three named
> levels of compliance stated above.  However, compliance (to the indicated
> level) remains a normative requirement.” If you want to suggest a further
> update to this text, please do.
>

Hi Sara, thanks for your consideration.

As far as I can tell -- and I fully admit that's without the benefit of
having been part of the WG's deliberations -- the two SHOULDs ought to be
MUSTs, otherwise an operator could do neither of them and still be
compliant with the BCP because "I have my reasons".  And if you're going to
make them MUSTs, then you can just say "implements" instead of "SHOULD
implement" and "publishes" instead of "SHOULD publish", and then you don't
need BCP 14 at all.  The normative force of the BCP's text is not reduced
merely by not using BCP 14.

All that said, this is a comment to a YES ballot, so my advice is worth
what you paid for it.  :-)

-MSK
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Re: [dns-privacy] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dprive-bcp-op-13.txt

[Eric Vyncke (evyncke)]

Bob,

It looks like there is a bug in the datatracker

Please use https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dprive-bcp-op-13.txt


-éric

From: Bob Harold 
Date: Friday, 10 July 2020 at 16:26
To: Sara Dickinson 
Cc: DNS Privacy Working Group , Eric Vyncke 

Subject: Re: [dns-privacy] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dprive-bcp-op-13.txt

On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 4:41 AM Sara Dickinson 
mailto:s...@sinodun.com>> wrote:
Hi,

This version should address the final comments from the IESG review.

Sara.

> On 10 Jul 2020, at 09:38, 
> internet-dra...@ietf.org wrote:
>
>
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
> directories.
> This draft is a work item of the DNS PRIVate Exchange WG of the IETF.
>
>Title   : Recommendations for DNS Privacy Service Operators
>Authors : Sara Dickinson
>  Benno J. Overeinder
>  Roland M. van Rijswijk-Deij
>  Allison Mankin
>   Filename: draft-ietf-dprive-bcp-op-13.txt
>   Pages   : 44
>   Date: 2020-07-10
>
> Abstract:
>   This document presents operational, policy, and security
>   considerations for DNS recursive resolver operators who choose to
>   offer DNS Privacy services.  With these recommendations, the operator
>   can make deliberate decisions regarding which services to provide,
>   and how the decisions and alternatives impact the privacy of users.
>
>   This document also presents a non-normative framework to assist
>   writers of a Recursive operator Privacy statement (analogous to DNS
>   Security Extensions (DNSSEC) Policies and DNSSEC Practice Statements
>   described in RFC6841).
>
>
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dprive-bcp-op/
>
> There are also htmlized versions available at:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dprive-bcp-op-13
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dprive-bcp-op-13
>
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dprive-bcp-op-13

When I try to view the diff, I get the error:

"Couldn't retrieve file 2 
(https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-dprive-bcp-op-13.txt) - got a 
redirect to 'https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-dprive-bcp-op-12.txt'.."

--
Bob Harold

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Re: [dns-privacy] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dprive-bcp-op-13.txt

[Bob Harold]

On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 4:41 AM Sara Dickinson  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> This version should address the final comments from the IESG review.
>
> Sara.
>
> > On 10 Jul 2020, at 09:38, internet-dra...@ietf.org wrote:
> >
> >
> > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories.
> > This draft is a work item of the DNS PRIVate Exchange WG of the IETF.
> >
> >Title   : Recommendations for DNS Privacy Service
> Operators
> >Authors : Sara Dickinson
> >  Benno J. Overeinder
> >  Roland M. van Rijswijk-Deij
> >  Allison Mankin
> >   Filename: draft-ietf-dprive-bcp-op-13.txt
> >   Pages   : 44
> >   Date: 2020-07-10
> >
> > Abstract:
> >   This document presents operational, policy, and security
> >   considerations for DNS recursive resolver operators who choose to
> >   offer DNS Privacy services.  With these recommendations, the operator
> >   can make deliberate decisions regarding which services to provide,
> >   and how the decisions and alternatives impact the privacy of users.
> >
> >   This document also presents a non-normative framework to assist
> >   writers of a Recursive operator Privacy statement (analogous to DNS
> >   Security Extensions (DNSSEC) Policies and DNSSEC Practice Statements
> >   described in RFC6841).
> >
> >
> > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dprive-bcp-op/
> >
> > There are also htmlized versions available at:
> > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dprive-bcp-op-13
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dprive-bcp-op-13
> >
> > A diff from the previous version is available at:
> > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dprive-bcp-op-13


When I try to view the diff, I get the error:

"Couldn't retrieve file 2 (
https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-dprive-bcp-op-13.txt) - got a
redirect to '
https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-dprive-bcp-op-12.txt'.."

-- 
Bob Harold
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Re: [dns-privacy] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dprive-bcp-op-13.txt

[Sara Dickinson]

Hi, 

This version should address the final comments from the IESG review.

Sara. 

> On 10 Jul 2020, at 09:38, internet-dra...@ietf.org wrote:
> 
> 
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
> directories.
> This draft is a work item of the DNS PRIVate Exchange WG of the IETF.
> 
>Title   : Recommendations for DNS Privacy Service Operators
>Authors : Sara Dickinson
>  Benno J. Overeinder
>  Roland M. van Rijswijk-Deij
>  Allison Mankin
>   Filename: draft-ietf-dprive-bcp-op-13.txt
>   Pages   : 44
>   Date: 2020-07-10
> 
> Abstract:
>   This document presents operational, policy, and security
>   considerations for DNS recursive resolver operators who choose to
>   offer DNS Privacy services.  With these recommendations, the operator
>   can make deliberate decisions regarding which services to provide,
>   and how the decisions and alternatives impact the privacy of users.
> 
>   This document also presents a non-normative framework to assist
>   writers of a Recursive operator Privacy statement (analogous to DNS
>   Security Extensions (DNSSEC) Policies and DNSSEC Practice Statements
>   described in RFC6841).
> 
> 
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dprive-bcp-op/
> 
> There are also htmlized versions available at:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dprive-bcp-op-13
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dprive-bcp-op-13
> 
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dprive-bcp-op-13
> 
> 
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
> 
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
> 
> 
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Re: [dns-privacy] Murray Kucherawy's Yes on draft-ietf-dprive-bcp-op-12: (with COMMENT)

[Sara Dickinson]

> On 8 Jul 2020, at 08:45, Murray Kucherawy via Datatracker  
> wrote:
> 
> Murray Kucherawy has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-dprive-bcp-op-12: Yes
> 
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
> introductory paragraph, however.)
> 
> 
> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
> 
> 
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dprive-bcp-op/
> 
> 
> 
> --
> COMMENT:
> ———

Hi Murray, 

Thanks for the review. 

> 
> I suggest getting rid of use of BCP 14 entirely.  There are only two SHOULDs 
> in
> the whole thing, and I don't think you need them.

This point has been discussed a few times - the WG considered a few 
alternatives and this was what eventually got consensus. We also added new text 
in the -12 version (suggested by Ben Kudak) at the end of section 5 to clarify 
the point that there are normative requirements here:  “The rest of this 
document does not use normative language but instead refers only to the three 
differing classes of action which correspond to the three named levels of 
compliance stated above.  However, compliance (to the indicated level) remains 
a normative requirement.” If you want to suggest a further update to this text, 
please do.

> 
> I also suggest reviewing Barry's editorial comments, because I observed the
> same issues for things like "DNS-over-DTLS" and "DNS-over-TLS", for example.

Thanks - I missed a few. Should all be fixed now in -13.

Sara. 

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[dns-privacy] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dprive-bcp-op-13.txt

[internet-drafts]

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the DNS PRIVate Exchange WG of the IETF.

Title   : Recommendations for DNS Privacy Service Operators
Authors : Sara Dickinson
  Benno J. Overeinder
  Roland M. van Rijswijk-Deij
  Allison Mankin
Filename: draft-ietf-dprive-bcp-op-13.txt
Pages   : 44
Date: 2020-07-10

Abstract:
   This document presents operational, policy, and security
   considerations for DNS recursive resolver operators who choose to
   offer DNS Privacy services.  With these recommendations, the operator
   can make deliberate decisions regarding which services to provide,
   and how the decisions and alternatives impact the privacy of users.

   This document also presents a non-normative framework to assist
   writers of a Recursive operator Privacy statement (analogous to DNS
   Security Extensions (DNSSEC) Policies and DNSSEC Practice Statements
   described in RFC6841).


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dprive-bcp-op/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dprive-bcp-op-13
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dprive-bcp-op-13

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dprive-bcp-op-13


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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