[DNSOP] One Chair's comments on draft-wessels-dns-zone-digest

2018-07-28 Thread Tim Wicinski
(these are just my comments alone. So take it as such) The draft states in the Motivation section: "The motivation and design of this protocol enhancement is tied to the DNS root zone [InterNIC]." Your Design Overview states that this will work for zones that are "relatively stable and have

Re: [DNSOP] New Version Notification for draft-wessels-dns-zone-digest-01.txt

2018-07-28 Thread John Levine
In article <208f049b-b35a-4755-9a20-fa0c7f685...@isc.org> you write: >a) the hash has to be independent to zone, so either the hash has to reside >outside of the root zone, or the root zone file would >have to be reconstructed with “the torrent hash” and “the torrent data”; >generally you would

[DNSOP] Unsigned RRs (re: XHASH and zonemd proposals)

2018-07-28 Thread Brian Dickson
Warren wrote: > how do they know they > can trust the zone file before loading it? And Joe Abley commented about non-apex NS records and glue, not being part of the current DNSSEC design/goals/requirements. I'll start my questions/proposal(s) with a scope question: - Is it a safe

Re: [DNSOP] New Version Notification for draft-wessels-dns-zone-digest-01.txt

2018-07-28 Thread Ondřej Surý
The way BitTorrent works, it’s basically a Merkle tree over the chunks. So, you need to compute the main hash over the zone data. Maybe there’s a smart way to compute hash over the data that includes that hash, but my poor brain thinks it would break the Matrix (or at least the hashing

Re: [DNSOP] New Version Notification for draft-wessels-dns-zone-digest-01.txt

2018-07-28 Thread John R Levine
that the served zone is too large. Otherwise, the receiver has to download the entire zone before it can determine that the hash does not match. ... On the other hand, clients will likely have a pretty good idea for the size of the zone, so they could transfer it twice: ... Now I'm really

Re: [DNSOP] New Version Notification for draft-wessels-dns-zone-digest-01.txt

2018-07-28 Thread John R Levine
Therefore either you need to exclude the data that changes (hash and its RRSIG) when computing the hash for the BitTorrent and the receiving side would have to reassemble this. Or you would need OOB mechanism to distribute the hash (different part of the tree, CDN, ...). Of course you

Re: [DNSOP] New Version Notification for draft-wessels-dns-zone-digest-01.txt

2018-07-28 Thread Florian Weimer
* Paul Wouters: > Another reason for an rr count number in the rrtype. The typical RR size is perhaps 1/300 of the protocol maximum (much less without DNSSEC), so this is only sufficient for small zones. ___ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org

Re: [DNSOP] Resolverless DNS Side Meeting in Montreal

2018-07-28 Thread Patrick McManus
Hi All - This is a wrap-up email for the Resolverless DNS meeting held on July 16 in Montreal. We had, by my rough count, about 50 people and two sets of minutes are attached. If you attended, contributed, or took minutes (Thanks Shane and Ben!) thank you - it was, imo, a productive,

Re: [DNSOP] New Version Notification for draft-wessels-dns-zone-digest-01.txt

2018-07-28 Thread tjw ietf
Oh folks like my employer where half of the security teams scream and say no, and the other half want to see to collect threat intelligence information. From my high tech gadget > On Jul 28, 2018, at 15:43, Ondřej Surý wrote: > > @ISC, we have been discussing this since we started

Re: [DNSOP] New Version Notification for draft-wessels-dns-zone-digest-01.txt

2018-07-28 Thread Florian Weimer
* John Levine: > In article <87h8kp7sqf@mid.deneb.enyo.de> you write: >>The ZONEMD record should contain a size indicator for the zone, >>something that allows a receiver to stop downloading if it is clear >>that the served zone is too large. Otherwise, the receiver has to >>download the

Re: [DNSOP] New Version Notification for draft-wessels-dns-zone-digest-01.txt

2018-07-28 Thread Florian Weimer
* John R. Levine: that the served zone is too large. Otherwise, the receiver has to download the entire zone before it can determine that the hash does not match. ... > >> On the other hand, clients will likely have a pretty good idea for the >> size of the zone, so they could

Re: [DNSOP] New Version Notification for draft-wessels-dns-zone-digest-01.txt

2018-07-28 Thread Ondřej Surý
@ISC, we have been discussing this since we started implementing RZ local copy and it’s not that simple. There are at least two problems with BitTorrent: a) the hash has to be independent to zone, so either the hash has to reside outside of the root zone, or the root zone file would have to be