Re: [DNSOP] New draft: Compact Lies/Denial of Existence in DNSSEC

2023-03-02 Thread Shumon Huque
On Thu, Mar 2, 2023 at 2:10 AM Paul Vixie wrote: > > > > Address lookup functions typically invoked by applications won't see > > a practical impact from this indistinguishability. For a non- > > existent name, the getaddrinfo() function for example will return a > > value of

Re: [DNSOP] New draft: Compact Lies/Denial of Existence in DNSSEC

2023-03-02 Thread Peter Thomassen
On 3/2/23 00:14, Joe Abley wrote: We are not talking about lies. Referring to these kinds of negative responses as lies is confusing and unhelpful. They are signed responses, and the point of signing them is that they are verifiably true. I think "lies" refers to an assumption that a single

Re: [DNSOP] New draft: Compact Lies/Denial of Existence in DNSSEC

2023-03-02 Thread Shumon Huque
On Thu, Mar 2, 2023 at 1:42 AM Florian Obser wrote: > > I might not be caffeinated enough yet, but I think the next domain name > in section 5 should be \000.ent1.example.net: > > ent1.example.net. 3600 IN NSEC \000.ent1.example.net. RRSIG > NSEC ENT > I'm the one who wasn't

Re: [DNSOP] New draft: Compact Lies/Denial of Existence in DNSSEC

2023-03-01 Thread Paul Vixie
Florian Obser wrote on 2023-03-01 22:42: I might not be caffeinated enough yet, but I think the next domain name in section 5 should be \000.ent1.example.net: ent1.example.net. 3600 IN NSEC \000.ent1.example.net. RRSIG NSEC ENT In section 6, calling getaddrinfo() return values

Re: [DNSOP] New draft: Compact Lies/Denial of Existence in DNSSEC

2023-03-01 Thread Florian Obser
I might not be caffeinated enough yet, but I think the next domain name in section 5 should be \000.ent1.example.net: ent1.example.net. 3600 IN NSEC \000.ent1.example.net. RRSIG NSEC ENT In section 6, calling getaddrinfo() return values exit codes is a bit odd, maybe this will do?

Re: [DNSOP] New draft: Compact Lies/Denial of Existence in DNSSEC

2023-03-01 Thread Paul Ebersman
gih> for what its worth I would like to chime in and support George's gih> view. The technique is NOT a lie per se. I'll "me too" this with George and Geoff. Figuring out a more efficient way to do what is ultimately wanted (crypographically provable denial of existence) that works better than

Re: [DNSOP] New draft: Compact Lies/Denial of Existence in DNSSEC

2023-03-01 Thread Joe Abley
Hi George, On Wed, Mar 1, 2023 at 17:40, George Michaelson wrote: > My opposition is philosophical and practical. > > the philosophical part, is that this is a SIGNED ASSERTION by the zone > authority. I don't think anything the zone authority says under a > signature should be called a lie,

Re: [DNSOP] New draft: Compact Lies/Denial of Existence in DNSSEC

2023-03-01 Thread Geoff Huston
for what its worth I would like to chime in and support George’s view. The technique is NOT a lie per se. It's a stretch (well its the opposite of “stretch” - its a “compression”) of the intended contents of the denial of existence response, but it is not a lie as I see it. I would be far more

Re: [DNSOP] New draft: Compact Lies/Denial of Existence in DNSSEC

2023-03-01 Thread George Michaelson
My opposition is philosophical and practical. the philosophical part, is that this is a SIGNED ASSERTION by the zone authority. I don't think anything the zone authority says under a signature should be called a lie, because the basis of verification is that its exactly what was intended to be

[DNSOP] New draft: Compact Lies/Denial of Existence in DNSSEC

2023-03-01 Thread Shumon Huque
Hi folks, We've posted a new draft describing the former "Black Lies" mechanism for authenticated denial, now renamed as "Compact Lies". https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-huque-dnsop-compact-lies/ We are hoping to discuss it here and at IETF116, and see if there is interest in adopting