Re: DOCBOOK: Chunking with XML
At 02:05 PM 5/9/01, Galen Boyer wrote: Three Questions (Feel free to point me to other documentation that I obviously may not have read) 1) It looks like the local variables section may be a standard section for editors to look for? I thought this was just an Emacs thing. I think it is. Another spell emacs has cast? 2) Is there a way to publish this smaller document as its own html so that I can continually see that is looks correct outside of the full document? ? Which 'smaller' document? 3) I am working in a windows shop and most people here have found an affinity for XML spy. Are there any thoughts on its ability to handle the needs of docbook publishing? Emacs sure does a fine job. But its author is 'shy' (or something other than 'brilliant'). Just keep telling the world that emacs rocks? Regards DaveP (another emacs fan... or did you guess?) -- To unsubscribe from this elist send a message with the single word unsubscribe in the body to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: DOCBOOK: XML, docbook and SVG
/ Ed Nixon [EMAIL PROTECTED] was heard to say: | I'm new to the list so the usual FAQ-type apologies. I *have* searched | the archive, however, without much success. http://www.siliconpublishing.org/svgfaq/ may be a start? Regards DaveP
DOCBOOK: Being cheeky.
xfree86, the documentation leg of the screen driver bit of Linux, is moving to docbook. If there is anyone out there who wants practice at marking up stuff in docbook - XML, as an exercise, perhaps you could contact me off list. (slides out carefully). Hopefully, DaveP -- To unsubscribe from this elist send a message with the single word unsubscribe in the body to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: DOCBOOK: A novice's questions
At 05:45 PM 7/27/01, Jirka Kosek wrote: if you want to use XMetaL you must create these customizations by yourself. I'm sure there are docbook customisations around for xmetal? IIRC a couple of groups have addressed this problem. Regards daveP -- To unsubscribe from this elist send a message with the single word unsubscribe in the body to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: DOCBOOK: Docbook websites
At 22:57 27/08/2001 -0400, Roy Hoobler wrote: Hi, I'm not too thrilled about the website xsl pages. I'd like to use the Docbook format. Usually web applications consist of dynamic content and static content. I'd like to get the static content in a docbook format (all in one place). As far as having too much content in one place, I was thinking before (with my own format) to create virtual sites, where links would point to different docbooks (or even articles-this hasn't been completely thought out). However, the stylesheet would be the same so the site would be consistent. Something that used to work, but now I can't get to work on the latest website, is to insert html:p .. and the stylesheet simply passed it through to the output. Perhaps you could use that for the dynamic.. if you can get it to work. Regards DaveP To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the subscription manager: http://lists.oasis-open.org/ob/adm.pl
Re: DOCBOOK: Forcing seperate documents
At 11:20 17/09/2001 +0200, Ken Walton wrote: Hi All I am using ver4.1 of DocBookx.dtd with the xsl stylesheets and Xalan. In my book I am declaring a number of documents as entities. Can you tell me how I can force these into seperate documents rather than have them all included in one htm file. Is it also possible to not have a ToC in each chapter? yes, yes. 1. Assuming you want html output rather than fo's. Call up chunk.xsl rather than docbook.xsl 2. Set the overall toc param (either in param.xsl or in your driver file) to 1 then set each of the various wrappers to 1 or 0 as needed. I know since I've just been there. I'm (almost) totally gobsmacked at the professionalism/flexibility of these stylesheets. The more I use them the more I'm impressed. There is even the infinitesimally remote chance I may start to stretch them in the next decade or so. I haven't been so pleased with any software since I came across Autocad. One of those tools that can do it, just that you haven't found out how... yet! Once more, thanks Norm (and team). Regards DaveP To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the subscription manager: http://lists.oasis-open.org/ob/adm.pl
Re: inlinegraphic going away... (Was Re: DOCBOOK: image with link)
At 09:42 25/09/2001 -0400, Norman Walsh wrote: Uh-huh. I almost said that myself. Of course, you *really* ought to use: link linkend=mytarget inlinemediaobject imageobject imagedata fileref=mygraphic.gif format=GIF/ /imageobject textobject phraseSimple alt text description of mygraphic/phrase /textobject textobject paraA longer description of the graphic, something that would be useful for readers using a visually constrained system./para paraOne such example of a visually constrained system is an audio device for in-car reading of online texts./para /textobject /inlinemediaobject /link That at least makes it clear what all the extra typing is actually for :-) And I think that's supposed to put up the alt text for the image. Is it just me, or do the latest XSLT (html) stylesheets not actually do it? Is any user action, or css required? It used to be the case that the mouseover used to show the alt text / the textobject. Regards DaveP To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the subscription manager: http://lists.oasis-open.org/ob/adm.pl
Re: DOCBOOK: docbook as web site content vocabulary
At 17:13 23/10/2001 +0200, Oleg Tkachenko wrote: Hello there! I want to use docbook as vocabulary for web site content, i've seen a couple of sites built this way. Could you plz expalin me what I need to do (to learn, to design, to write etc.) in order to achieve this? Lots of reading. Get the website DTD and stylesheets from sourceforge (search for docbook). Have a look at the tiny examples in the distribution, then start playing. HTH DaveP To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the subscription manager: http://lists.oasis-open.org/ob/adm.pl
Re: DOCBOOK: Warning: Newbie Question
At 11:18 24/10/2001 -0400, Dan York wrote: Robert, If there is anyone one out there who has successfully been able to use DocBook on a PC and who would be willing to help a clueless newbie, please contact me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] We do most of our work on Linux, but I have had no problem at all generating DocBook files on a Windows box using the Windows version of Daniel Veillard's 'xsltproc' command (http://www.xmlsoft.org/XSLT/ ) and Norm's XSLT stylesheets. Now, we write most of our files using text editors with macros, so I have no idea about authoring/editing tools for Windows. But general production of DocBook documents on Windows *is* possible. Robert is looking for a working windows SGML + dsssl setup, catalog example for dsssl stylesheets and dtd etc. I haven't used it for some time, so my memory is failing me. Anyone help him please? Regards DaveP To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the subscription manager: http://lists.oasis-open.org/ob/adm.pl
Re: DOCBOOK:
At 11:11 01/11/2001 +0100, Broberg, Mats wrote: The epic editor version 4.2 includes the DocBook DTD as part of the package, the 15k Euro price is no longer applicable. If you are interested the price would be 695 Euros for the Editor and 165 Euros Maintenance for a fixed license. Wow, something of a change in price! 15K down to 700. Ask some very careful questions about 'bolt on goodies' that turn out to be essential, before you buy though. Its still the only real option I've seen to emacs. We developed a wish list from using about 5 editors, and epic came up trumps on every single one. Now when will they start to support xml schema :-( Regards DaveP To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the subscription manager: http://lists.oasis-open.org/ob/adm.pl
Re: DOCBOOK: [website] newbie q
At 22:43 03/11/2001 +0200, Oleg Tkachenko wrote: Hello there! I've started playing with website DTD and everything seems to be Ok, except rather long site generation. Is I realize, major part of the processing time is wasted on download of imported docbook stylesheets from http://docbook.sourceforge.net. Is this done by design or I can freely change this import declarations to use local docbook xsl copy? Yes, it can be changed. Simply install a copy of the DTD on your hard disk, and change the system reference to the disk based copy instead of the web based one. If you disconnect from the Internet you will find out which files need changing. HTH DaveP To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the subscription manager: http://lists.oasis-open.org/ob/adm.pl
Re: DOCBOOK: Re: Concrete proposal for #480954: Extend textobject toinsertexternal files
At 09:06 13/11/2001 -0400, Elliotte Rusty Harold wrote: OK, I can see that; but DocBook doesn't need PSVI properties so this isn't a problem here. Heck. there's not even a schema for DocBook yet, is there? Can you try and persuade the laggards that its worthwhile Elliot? E.g. some example showing a valid use within docbook environment? grin/ We might then try and persuade Norm and Jirka. Less sure about Daniel!!! Regards DaveP To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the subscription manager: http://lists.oasis-open.org/ob/adm.pl
Re: DOCBOOK: Linking in DocBook V5.0
At 18:13 14/11/2001 +0100, Jirka Kosek wrote: OK. So lets have extended links in DocBook. With ~400 elements, DocBook always provided features that most users didn't use, but they were there for few people who needed them. Lot of truth in that Norm! The XML ahead is a docbook instance? Regards DaveP To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the subscription manager: http://lists.oasis-open.org/ob/adm.pl
Re: DOCBOOK: XML Schemas and docbook documents
At 16:19 15/11/2001 -0800, Earl Bingham wrote: Since I have heard that all new standards with W3 and since .NET is completely XML Schema related, is DTD's dead? No. OK? To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the subscription manager: http://lists.oasis-open.org/ob/adm.pl
Re: DOCBOOK: Why are legalnotices dropped?
At 11:47 29/11/2001 -0600, Scott Bolte wrote: At this point I'm going to abandon the use of legalnotice and use a warning or something else that will highlight the importance of the message. Before I do that though, I'd like to make sure I'm not missing some reliable way to get the notices included, and to ask what the logic is behind not including a legal notice. Same logic as specifying most 'front page stuff'. Your needs are different to mine, his, hers and mostly everyone else's. Hence what I want for 'my' docbook output is fully specified in my own (not the downloaded docbook stylesheets) stylesheets which then override and include Norms styling. That way I can update to keep up with docbook development and mostly keep all my front page output (and other styling) just the way I want it (or my bosses :-) I find it satisfactory, and am thankful that I have the opportunity to utilise the bulk of the processing, without having to do the work myself. I think that justifies the decision. Regards DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: A straw proposal for help topics in DocBook
At 13:56 16/10/2001 -0400, Norman Walsh wrote: What's the plan: The overall plan is to allow people to author Help Sets using all of the rich technical structure of DocBook without shoe-horning it into the classical print book model. Guessing that 'topics' could be viewed in a similar way to the way in which I use qanda stuff, I like the idea of allowing it within other structures, as well as on its own. On some occasions it is nice to have 'other' forms than the one primarily in use. also in favour of retaining full markup, rather than a reduced set. First glance it looks about right Norm. Regards DaveP To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the subscription manager: http://lists.oasis-open.org/ob/adm.pl
Re: DOCBOOK: XSLT stylesheet documentation
At 10:11 03/12/2001 +0100, Christoph Steinbeck wrote: Having to write a customization wrapper stylesheet is clear from your documentation of docbook.sf.net, but is there any documentation on the switches that can be used for customization? Say, to switch the line separation to 1.5 lines in the output document? http://www.dpawson.co.uk/docbook/styling/custom.html may help you more generally. Regards DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: DocBook community of users
At 15:57 13/12/2001 -0500, Rowland, Cindy wrote: Anyone know of a list of organizations using DocBook? I'm trying to get a feeling for how wide-spread DocBook is and in what industries. http://www.dpawson.co.uk/docbook/reference.html#d53e60 May give you a clue. HTH DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: Elements and attributes (was Re: XML Schemas and docbookdocuments)
At 14:24 15/12/2001 -0500, Norman Walsh wrote: In other words, attributes should be reserved for lists of tokens, numbers, simple datatypes, etc. One nice consequence of this rule is that the need for entity references (most frequently character entity references) in attribute values is effectively be removed. (Yes, I've used entity references in attributes for other things, but not often and never without other possible solutions.) What about a list of tokens that contain chars such as cafeacute; ? Surely we can't rule those out just because English doesn't use them? Regards DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: Re: doc domain vs. problem domain semantics (Re[2]:listitem)
At 07:46 03/01/2002 -0500, Norman Walsh wrote: Well, varlistentrys can have multiple terms, but yes. However, wanna bet the number of people confused by assoclist is roughly equal to the number of people confused by variablelist? :-) But far greater than the number who understand the HTML equivalent? Defn list would hit the mark with more people perhaps? | Regardless, I guess Variablelist is sort of confusing, not very | precise, because it doesn't imply anything about pairing or | association. If you think of the name as parallel to Glosslist (and | don't read the documentation), I guess it might be natural to assume | that a Variablelist is a list of variables. Yes, I suppose. RTFM, I guess. Renaming variablelist at this point would create a significant legacy problem for a very small return, IMHO. 'spose so :-) Regards DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: Adding metainfo to more places
At 14:37 15/01/2002 -0500, Norman Walsh wrote: The DocBook TC has had several discussions about additional places in DocBook where it would be beneficial to allow metainfo. Our current candidate list of places is: equation, example, figure, informalequation, informalexample, informalfigure, informaltable, itemizedlist, legalnoticeinfo, msgset, orderedlist, procedure, qandadiv, qandaentry, qandaset, table, variablelist The TC requests your feedback on this list. Our plan of record is to add a single new *info element (and not EquationInfo, ExampleInfo, etc.). Suggestions for the name of this single info element are also solicited. blockmeta Regards DaveP
DOCBOOK: Markup problem
How might the 'typedef struct' section below be marked up please?
First (void) part is a funcsynopsis markup,
but I'm stuck with the typedef.
Any help appreciated.
Regards DaveP
The driver may replace the generic access control functions for an entity by
it's own ones. This is done with the xf86SetAccessFuncs():
void xf86SetAccessFuncs(EntityInfoPtr pEnt,
xf86SetAccessFuncPtr funcs,
xf86SetAccessFuncPtr oldFuncs) with:
typedef struct {
xf86AccessPtr mem;
xf86AccessPtr io;
xf86AccessPtr io_mem;
} xf86SetAccessFuncRec, *xf86SetAccessFuncPtr;
DOCBOOK: macros
I can't find any markup for a macro (call). Is there any please? Regards DaveP
DOCBOOK: Re: macros
At 13:23 24/01/2002 -0500, Norman Walsh wrote: / Dave Pawson [EMAIL PROTECTED] was heard to say: | At 19:48 23/01/2002 -0600, Michael Smith wrote: |Dave Pawson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: | | I can't find any markup for a macro (call). | | Is there any please? | |Hi Dave, | |I think you need to do systemitem class=macro Or markup, perhaps. Not exactly intuitive? I'll take a look. | I asked earlier this week about data structures | typical C typedef, is there markup for that too? Theres structname and structfield for talking about pieces of the structure, but I don't think there's anything better for the whole struct. Candidate for an rfe Norm? Seems relevant. Regards DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: SVG in DocBook
At 11:39 07/03/2002 +0100, E.L. Willighagen wrote: Is there a similar module for SVG as well yet? Or, even better, since i need to use both in one source, a module to support both MathML and SVG in DocBook? In CVS perhaps? On the w3c svg page, there is a mathml to svg piece. Might help? Then use the svg embedded in html idea? SVG would be nice though. Regards DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: customizing docbook xsl
At 13:42 09/04/2002 -0400, Stefan Seefeld wrote: Uhm, you don't like the frames ? I understood the intent, just totally missed the solution :-) Well, the idea is that you can browse the document structure, content, as well as annotations in parallel. Right now I'm more or less trying to mimic the look and feel of this: http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/community/committees/umada/d0021/d0021-t.html One hairy website! Where's the stylesheet again? http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/berlin//web/xsl/doc.xsl?rev=1.6content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup It's still very specific to our needs, but it might well be generalized at some point OK, I'll look again when you get to that point. I believed it was at that stage from your earlier message. Regards DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: #docbook on irc.openprojects.net
At 23:49 27/04/2002 -0700, Jesse Proulx wrote: I'm new to this mailing list, and Michael (xmldoc) suggested that I announce the new #docbook channel here. Its #docbook on irc.openprojects.net, and the only rule so far is just to be polite. 24/7 ?? How about a time/dow as a starting point? Might be nice to make turnaround a little quicker? Regards DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: possible issue with fo XSLT
At 22:19 04/05/2002 +0100, Vincent Sanders wrote: I have applied norms XSLT FO transform (version 1.50.0) to produce an output xml file in FO format (using several processors including xsltproc and saxon). I then attempted to use FOP to create pdf output from this FO file, this resulted in FOP (version 0.20.3) giving an error: [ERROR]: The id toc...book1_chapter_2 already exists in this document I examine the FO file and sure enough the id is indeed duplicated... This is the same issue (different perspective) that I am up against. The stylesheets use generate-id() functions on all books to produce the tocs, and are probably being re-run (though if processed as a set then surely they are within the same document and hence are breaking the XSLT rules about the id values being unique?). The chapters or whatever that are being collated as toc content, have you tried using id values on them. I know that on chapters the id value sticks, probably on some of the major subdivisions under chapter as well. Perhaps try one or two (first chapter each book) and see if the count of repeats goes down by one? Regards DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: Re: Building Where is the bibliography ?
At 11:17 06/05/2002 -0400, Dan York wrote: Last time we (the DocBook Open Repository team) discussed it, the general feeling was that Make was still more broadly available than ant and was thus more appropriate. 100% agreed... warts and all, make is still the only thing you can count on finding on pretty much all versions of Linux/UNIX. ant isn't there yet. But I do wonder sometimes... Keep wondering Norm/Dan! make just plain ain't win32. Ant makes it for both groups. If I can understand it, most can, with a little steering. Regards DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: Re: Building Where is the bibliography ?
At 18:32 06/05/2002 +0200, Holger Krug wrote: Today it is very difficult to *make docbook*, it takes several hours to find all the resources needed, Good point Holger. Unless you've done it before, the full list of 'bits I need' are quite tiresome to track down. Worth a webpage on both oasis, docbook.org and sourceforge perhaps, just putting the links together for latest stable versions? Regards DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: Re: Building Where is the bibliography ?
At 20:56 06/05/2002 +0200, Jirka Kosek wrote: I'm able to make stylesheets in Win32 environment using Cygwin. Having better and more automatically working making environment (based on make or ant) will be plus, but there are more important things I think. Agreed. Normall people are not forced to build stylesheet. Even if they want to apply some patch before official release, they can usually get one or few modifed files from CVS and copy them over existing files. Build is neccessary only if new parameters are added. OK, we are using a different definition of 'make' Jirka :-) I withdraw my comments. Regards DaveP
RE: DOCBOOK: step number and content on different lines
At 12:13 10/05/2002 +0100, O'Donnell, Vincent wrote: (using stylesheets 1.50) I don't think I am using a customization layer, but here is an example of the offending fo, snip/ I don't understand all the things in there (know where I can get explanations?) - I think it looks like it should work ok, although I wonder what the label end-indent and the body start-indent are doing?? Its just a way of laying out lists. Try www.dpawson.co.uk/xsl/sect3/bk/index.html If this should be ok, does it mean that fop is making the mess? Can anyone else try this chunk on their setup? It certainly looks OK (no, haven't tried it). If you can pick out the fo file, try it with Antenna house or xep to see if its fop that's not processing it. HTH DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: newbie Q's about Simplified DocBook 1.0b2
At 01:31 17/05/2002 -0600, Mike Brown wrote: Hi, I'm attempting to use Simplified DocBook 1.0b2. I have a couple of questions about it. I've only dabbled in DocBook before, so please forgive my ignorance or point me to a FAQ or more appropriate forum if this isn't the place to ask. Hi Mike. www.dpawson.co.uk/docbook Or have you been there? 1. http://www.docbook.org/tdg/en/html/para.html shows an example wherein a para contains an itemizedlist. Simplified DocBook doesn't seem to allow this. I just want to make sure this was a deliberate change. Is the correct approach in Simplified DocBook to keep lists as blocks separate from paragraphs? 2. In my document, I want to provide some examples of command-line input and program output. I was just going to use screen, but that's not available in Simplified DocBook. Instead of screen, I am using literallayout class=monospaced format=linespecific and mixing computeroutput and userinput within it, as necessary. For example, command is available in full docbook, unsure about simple? Does this sound like the right way to go about marking up the kind of text I'm dealing with? Or you could try full docbook, then keep the definitive guide handy at the index page for when you get stuck? the element names are very well related to what you (OK I) expect. Learn as you go along? HTH DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: DocBook TC Meeting Minutes: 21 May 2002
At 15:15 21/05/2002 -0400, Norman Walsh wrote: / Norman Walsh [EMAIL PROTECTED] was heard to say: | DocBook Technical Committee Meeting Agenda: 21 May 2002 9b. XML Character entities Mike: Looking at some Linux distributions and a distribution for the CygWin system, I noticed that they are distributing another version of the character entity files. Nobody should be tampering with those files, they should just be using the standard versions distributed at the OASIS DocBook site. Rather a strong view? We should come up with some mechanism for clearly identifying the files (internally) and indicate that they should not be changed. Perhaps add, 'though they may be added to as a customisation'? (with rationale of re-use across installation). IBM posted quite a good paper on DITA recently, Don Day. http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-dita5/index.html Regards DaveP Regards DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: Macromedia Flash file in docbook
At 02:03 30/05/2002 +0800, Ming Fai wrote: I use docbook as the format to store content for my website. Now, there is a new page that need to use Macromedia Flash (.swf) file. After looked at the reference of mediaobject, it seems none of them is for holding this kind of web animation file. And obviously, the docbook xsl doesn't support the transformation of flash movie. (http://docbook.sourceforge.net/projects/xsl/) Am I correct? So, could anybody give me an advice on the preferred way to store and transform docbook with flash? Convert from flash to SVG? Regards DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: Docbook Q's - references and image objects on the titlepage...
At 11:25 10/06/2002 -0400, Val Schmidt wrote: I wasn't sure if this was a development-only list or if I can ask newbie questions. I apologize if these are bothersome and kindly ask that someone point me in a direction where I can get some help if they are. Second, I'd like to include an illustration on the title page of the book, however the mediaobject tags et. al. either are not allowed at the outset of the book, or if I move them around so jade successfully compiles things the image is not rendered. I'll leave the first question to others. I'm guessing you are writing XML and using the XSL stylesheets? (and a recent docbook setup from sourceforge) On that assumption, for the title page you need to customise the stylesheets (http://www.dpawson.co.uk/docbook/styling/custom.html) Not magic, and there is additional documentation in the downloaded stylesheets. Specifically for the titlepage http://www.dpawson.co.uk/docbook/styling/titlepage.html HTH DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: README
At 17:44 14/06/2002 +0200, Yann Dirson wrote: On Fri, Jun 14, 2002 at 08:25:34AM -0400, Phil Griffin wrote: The readme.txt file appears as a single line of characters interspersed with black blobs when opened on a Windows box using the Notepad program. Isn't Notepad an obsolete and mostly unmaintained program ? yes. The problem there will be that we on Unix platforms will get the useless supplementary that inherit the algorithm of mechanic typewriters :) Maybe the best solution would be to provide a README.msdos with the legacy linefeeds ? Or carve it in stone ;-) regards DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: Issues with processing expectations of the proposedannotation element
At 09:09 26/06/2002 -0400, Jason Foster wrote: snip/ Would a marginalia be considered an annotation? In textbooks a (somewhat) common layout is to divide the page into two columns (65%,35%?) where the inside columns contain the full text and the outside columns contain a paragraph-by-paragraph summary. A while back Norm described this as marginalia, +1. A very common (page based) annotation placement. Oft commented on, found in works, hence some readers almost expect it. A very welcome addition IMO. Regards DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: Issues with processing expectations of the proposedannotation element
At 10:49 27/06/2002 +0200, Yann Dirson wrote: How do people feel annotation would relate to footnote and remark ? Markup wise, same thing different name? It seems to me that remark would be just a special case of annotation (class=(Editorial|ProofReader), and maybe a couple more), and that footnote could be merged into annotation as well, but I'd rather not use footnote as a class value, as it has IMHO too much layout-oriented connotation. Maybe footnotes could be made the default processing for annotation, and some annotation classes (eg. editorial comments) would be possible to render as marginalia. Principle being that annotations (== notes?) default to being placed at the end (of something) unless another location is specified... where? in the source or in the stylesheet :-) regards DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: Issues with processing expectations of the proposedannotation element
At 06:15 27/06/2002 -0500, Michael Smith wrote: If we were to add an Annotation element, I think it could be of use for the HTML title attribute if a processing application (e.g. the DocBook XSL stylesheets) were to just convert all the Annotation content to text -- strip out any tags the content might contain, You may want that Mike. I certainly wouldn't. I don't want to mark up content to have it stripped. Regards DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: numbered QA entries how?
At 05:10 19/07/2002, David Kilgour wrote: I would like my QA entries to be numbered: Q1 A Q2 A and for this numbering to continue across chapters. I would like to do this with both dsssl and xml docbook. Any suggestions welcome. If you look at www.dpawson.co.uk/docbook the qandaset there is numbered. I'm using the standard website stylesheets. Regards DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: tdg translation
At 11:28 22/07/2002, BigSmoke wrote: Hiya anyone, I'm interested in writing a Dutch translation of Docbook: The Definitive Guide. I'm curious as to which XML sources to download and how. I'm not familiar with CVS. Any pointers which don't involve learning everything about CVS will be appreciated. If you ask 'ever so nicely', I'm sure one of the kind and clever people here (I'm not one of them) would download it [cvs takes a magic wand] and put it on a web site for you? Good luck. DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: hierarchical element reference list for docbook?
At 07:11 27/07/2002, Robert P. J. Day wrote: is there a hierarchical reference list for the current docbook elements somewhere? you know, grouped by association or category or something like that. I'd suggest the index in docbook, the definitive guide, though perhaps a seperate index into the book might be a good addition, I use the table of contents in docbook which is complete, when I want to hunt out a particular element. HTH DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: hierarchical element reference list for docbook?
At 08:58 27/07/2002, Robert P. J. Day wrote: actually, i'm in the process of creating a hierarchical list (in emacs outline mode) of all of the elements listed in TDG (updated when i get the chance). when i'm done, i can post it if anyone's interested. the point is to list elements in categories, such as * lists * function display * code/screen display * Q/A and so on, so i can just jump to the appropriate section to see all of the related elements. I'd appreciate a copy (xml markup please) for the docbook faq. TIA DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: hierarchical element reference list for docbook?
At 09:12 27/07/2002, Robert P. J. Day wrote: just fyi, here's the first part of it so you can see what i'm trying to do. it's in emacs outline mode at the moment: snip/ ... and so on. just a really quick reference to related elements. so nothing like this is available on the net somewhere already? bummer. Not grouped like that AFAIK, Norm? Bob? If Norm has tdg id values marking the sections/pages it could easily be linked via olink to tdg? I think that would make a very useful addition to the documentation. Regards DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: Uniq values of ID attributes
At 05:34 28/07/2002, Vitaly Ostanin wrote: Hello! 1. I'm join modular DocBook/XML documents and get errors for already declared values of ID attributes (each in separated documents). It's possible to do common attribute id uniq not for all document, in some levels only ? No, the id values must be unique to the whole document you are parsing. 2. It's possible to add fallback element within xref element ? And also for all idref's attributes? I don't think so, but I'm not sure I understand. Do you have an example? This may be another way to linking between documents, which located in one set of documents. PS On page http://www.docbook.org/tdg/en/html/ch01.html exist small text error in first para: you only need to skim this chapter. probably must be: ...to skip... grin/ English, to skim is to read very quickly, without understanding all of it. HTH DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: Uniq values of ID attributes
At 08:06 28/07/2002, Vitaly Ostanin wrote: It's possible to do common attribute id uniq not for all document, in some levels only ? No, the id values must be unique to the whole document you are parsing. Then authors of modular documents must to use long name values for id's. And this names will depend of document's structure :( Ok. Having seen what docbook stuff uses, I steal those ideas. E.g. a chapter on subject pages, chapter id='pgs' then example id='pgs.ex.1' etc, so the names relate to the subject? May be usable adding element for use XPointer or XLink functionality ? 2. It's possible to add fallback element within xref element ? And also for all idref's attributes? I don't think so, but I'm not sure I understand. Do you have an example? Sorry. In XInclude within element xi:include exist element xi:fallback for control errors of includes. I will wait for someone else to answer that one! I have tried olink, but not include. In DocBook DTD idref attributes point to id which must exist, right? Yes, at parse time. It's possible to add element, which will control situation when id not exist in current edition ? id may be visible after join of documents. No. Its an error if the id does not exist at parse time. Perhaps olink would help. http://www.sagehill.net/OlinkExtended.html may give you some help. regards DaveP.
DOCBOOK: Re: Uniq values of ID attributes
At 00:20 29/07/2002, Vitaly Ostanin wrote: E.g. a chapter on subject pages, chapter id='pgs' then example id='pgs.ex.1' etc, so the names relate to the subject? Yes, but for separated documents we must to use: id=full.path.with.sub.parts.of.set.document-name.pgs.ex.1 for it be unique. Not if you make the id's relate to the document subject? id values do not need the document path. skipped In DocBook DTD idref attributes point to id which must exist, right? Yes, at parse time. It's possible to add element, which will control situation when id not exist in current edition ? id may be visible after join of documents. No. Its an error if the id does not exist at parse time. Perhaps olink would help. http://www.sagehill.net/OlinkExtended.html may give you some help. Thanks, I'm already trying to use olink. Try Bob Stayton's olink site, I found it helpful. regards DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: Re: DOCBOOK-APPS: Your version, docbook elements
At 14:44 01/08/2002, Robert P. J. Day wrote: On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, Dave Pawson wrote: !DOCTYPE section PUBLIC -//OASIS//DTD DocBook XML V4.1.2//EN /sgml/oasis/docbook412/docbookx.dtd !ENTITY tdgHome /documentation/tdg/en/html/ snip what about for 4.2 rather than 4.1.2? or is that a silly question? Not wishing to be rude, but simply change it. Nothing advanced in the markup. My .emacs file hasn't changed since I first put it there, (call me plain lazy :-) - or that the docbook people move too fast for me! HTH DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: Re: hierarchical element reference list for docbook?
At 04:47 02/08/2002, Robert P. J. Day wrote: You dreamed of it, Norm did it :) the man is a stud. Oh I wouldn't go that far at least not in the hearing of his better half :-)
RE: DOCBOOK: alphabetical list of docbook 4.2 elements anywhere?
At 16:37 05/08/2002, David Cramer wrote: http://docbook.org/tdg/en/html/docbook.html It's officially an alpha version of the book, but I have a feeling Norm will chime in and tell us whether all the new elements are there :) Some folks are also working on a handy reference card, tho it appears not to have all the 4.2 elements in it: Hi David. Are you sufficiently aware of the 'new' (4.2) elements to provide them please? If so, I'll update and identify it as 4.2 docbook. Since the list came from Norm, I (possibly wrongly) assumed it was up to date :-) TIA, regards DaveP
RE: DOCBOOK: alphabetical list of docbook 4.2 elements anywhere?
At 11:12 12/08/2002, David Cramer wrote: Sorry, I'm not. That comment was based only on a quick spot check comparing elements having the v4.2 icon at http://docbook.org/tdg/en/html/docbook.html and the ref cards. I noticed that things like bibliocoverage, bibliorelation, bibliosource, were omitted from the cards (though v4.2 elements like biblioid, blockinfo, coref, errortext, etc. are there). OK, Thanks David. Norm told me that CVS had the source of the file I used on OASIS (yes I should have remembered where :-). I'll hunt for it. Regards DaveP.
Re: Fw: DOCBOOK: programlisting
At 19:17 14/08/2002, Bob Stayton wrote: If the 'pass through' of role, to 'class' in the html were available via the stylesheets, that would be easy... wouldn't it? Yes, it would be easy to pass it through. But the class attribute is already occupied by the element name, such as div class=programlisting. Are you suggesting that if there is a role value, that it should just replace the element name? I have suggested it before, for just this purpose, but hadn't realised (no, hadn't connected my 'other' use of it as you say). How much of a chore would it be to have it parameterised? class.usage='passthrough' or class.usage='elementName' Would that make sense? Then Geert and I could colour our program listings or define our stylesheets based on element names, but not both... which would break the rest of our css stylesheets :-) Mmmm. Now I see the problem. My only other suggestion would be for me to learn more about CSS I suppose. Isn't it possible to specify the hierarchy (selectors in css2) such that its possible to identify the two uses and hence style them differently? Regards DaveP
Re: Fw: DOCBOOK: programlisting
At 00:17 15/08/2002, Bob Stayton wrote: I notice that the HTML 4.0 spec says the class attribute can be a space-separated list of names. That sounds like you could have both element name and role value as class values in a div class attribute. But how do you write CSS to deal with that, and do the browsers support such syntax? John seems more up to date on css than I, but as you did Bob, I should be reading the specs :-) I could experiment on ie, if someone could play with the Linux browsers? I'll get back to you when I know more. Nice idea, regards DaveP
Re: Fw: DOCBOOK: programlisting
At 05:24 16/08/2002, ed nixon wrote: Before this is made a permanent feature, I'd like to suggest it be checked thoroughly against the modern browsers at least, i.e. 6 and above. (Sorry, but I've seen IE 5.x described as the Netscape 4 of the modern browser world.) In my experience, the CSS class/value selector works OK provided there is a single value involved, no space delimiters; I'm not so sanguin about selecting an arbitrary sub-string out of a space delimited list, nor about what space delimited values might do to the basic functionality of the class selector. I've been mailing John off list, and its fine with ie6. Its certainly not a perm fixture though Ed, (I haven't submitted to sourceforge yet), I (for one) would like to see it OK for the Linux browsers, and (min) ie5 and above, for us poor win32 waifs ;-) Has anyone checked it out on the Linux kit yet? This page should be sufficient to determine IE's support for selecting one component of a class attribute: http://www.geekhavoc.com/css.html If you Lucky Linux lovers would speak up please ;-) regards DaveP
DOCBOOK: Re: hierarchical element reference list for docbook?
At 11:31 16/08/2002, Norman Walsh wrote: | I have a couple of remarks about it: | | - the capitalization in the list is not consistent Yes, this is a lingering issue as the book makes the transition from SGML (where case didn't matter and CamelCase was the order of the day) to XML (where it does matter and we've settled on all lowercase for element and attribute names). My latest version has that aspect sorted. | - the ordering of elements in each section seems near to random. It | would be good to put first the first elements a user is likely to | look for. Look at the tables part for an illustration. The only purpose they serve(d) for me was to generate the list of see alsos at the bottom of the reference pages. I probably ended up sorting the list. So the order is random :-) I've had a couple of suggestions (e.g. links) for improving it for the ref card usage. Yes, probably not up-to-date with V4.2 yet. It's also possible that there are some completely missing because they didn't make sense for the purpose for which I wrote the list in the first place :-) It also raised the issue (for the ref card) which *should* be there, which shouldn't. My (original) aim was to have those top level elements from which to select, and not include all the others that could come almost anywhere, but this has been questionned. I have a list of 'missing' elements (4.2 version), but am unsure which way to go, hence I'm seeking guidance. After the Mulberrytech refcard (for xslt) I'm still chasing a max of two sides. Presently up to 1 generous side, so more could go on. Suggestions welcome. regards DaveP
Re: Fw: DOCBOOK: programlisting
At 23:49 18/08/2002, Jens Stavnstrup wrote: This looks ok on Linux, tried out on Konqueor 2.2.2 Opera 6.0.2 Mozilla 0.9.9 I think thats a fair summary of the browsers? I'm plus one for the change Norm. Regards DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: URI/URL markup in DocBook
At 04:13 20/08/2002, Michael Smith wrote: During the next monthly DocBook TC telcon, the TC will discuss adding URL/URN markup to the DocBook DTD. So, can others on the list please comment on their needs/expectations regarding URN/URL markup? Specifically: * Would adding 'url' and 'urn' to the list of enumerated values for the Systemitem element be a satisfactory solution? No. Too similar. or * Do you have a need for markup that would allow you to distinguish between different types of URLs and URNs? No. Again, indistinguishable from a presenation aspect. Suggest its a CSS task for presentation? Regards DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: Playing with annotations...
At 06:56 20/08/2002, Norman Walsh wrote: phraseHello Worldannotation class=noteA common test phrase/annotation/phrase Simple display of annotations puts them inline: Hello World[aAnnotation/a] +1, blatent. Discrete keeps them off the screen by percolating the link up to the containing element: aHello World/a -0, a little obfuscation. popup uses JavaScript to make hovering over the link popup a window containing the annotation. Non-popup doesn't, but uses JavaScript to popup a new browser window if the user clicks on it. Bleah is how Norm once spelled it I think. javascript and docbook don't mix Norm. The fifth possibility is simple, no-popup with the actual annotations rendered like footnotes at the bottom of the page, instead of using a new browser window to display them +0, I could live with that, footnote'ish. One of the reasons for the experiment was to see if it shed light on the seven issues that Paul raised[1] when we first started considering annotations: 1. In paginated output, should annotations be able to be rendered as footnotes (e.g., at the bottom of the current page)? If so, how Yes. Move my +0 to + 0.1 :-) do they interact with footnotes an dother floats? I'm tempted to make them footnotes labelled differently and presented in the same footnote list as other footnotes, either before all the other footnotes or after them. +0.2 and gaining favour. What if it is impossible to get the annotated element and the annotation on the same page? Do you allow a long annotation to be broken up over a page? Apply the same rules as footnotes. Makes sense. What do you do in the flowing text to indicate some text is annotated? Output the label that's used at the bottom of the page. How do you associate a given annotation with a given annotated element? For the paginated case, if you're using PDF popup features as Mike showed[2], I think you can go with either the simple or discrete style. If you're using footnotes, I think the simple style is the way to go. +1 for simple. I'm unhappy with the moniker title but I didn't try to fix that now. If you put arbitrary structure in a title annotation, you will probably get just the text content. +1, KISS principle. 7. If an annotation element is contained within a title, does the copy of the title in the Table of Contents (or List of XXX) also have the annotation? No. (IMHO). And mine (Was that serious Paul!) 'Treat as per footnotes' is my favourite now. (Is Paul normally this 'deep' with his questions :-) regards DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: Playing with annotations...
At 01:16 22/08/2002, Bob Stayton wrote: Footnotes are annotations, but not all annotations must be footnotes, even in print. I'm hoping the annotation mechanism might be used to put annotations next to paragraphs in a wide page margin. It looks like FO might even handle that using fo:list-block. or float? Probably not. Side floats are not implemented in any of the FO processors that I know of, not even XEP. grin/Oh yes they are. Next release of xep! Boy do they look good. The XSL-FO area generation for side floats looks quite complicated in the spec. It seems intended to handle images intruding into the text, with text wrapping around it. Yep, and the demo's really do look good. I'm more interested in a fixed side margin big enough to handle text annotations. My approach would be to put all the normal blocks into the fo:list-item-body part of a fo:list-item, and reserve its fo:list-item-label for annotation blocks associated with that normal block. If the list-item parts have fixed widths, you should get a regular margin, and the list-item pairing should keep the annotation near its text. I doubt I'll get line-by-line alignment, This is the problem. It will work for some content, but will look odd for others. but top-of-paragraph alignment would still be useful. This is all theortical, since I haven't actually tried this. But I think the current FO processors would handle this. Text alignment in the vertical direction isn't well supported for lists. I've heard the term marginalia, which could be an equivalent of annotation? Yes, this presentation could be referred to as marginalia. I hesitate to use that term, because, like you, many people take it as equivalent to annotation. My dictionary defines marginalia as notes in a book margin. I prefer Paul Grosso's distinction that marginalia is a presentation mode of annotation, and that annotations are a logical concept that can be expressed in many presentation modes. OK, I did say it was a new term to me. With the above, I'm shifting my view towards annotations== footnotes, but them at the bottom of the page. Regards DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: On the size of DocBook...
At 19:55 05/09/2002, Paul Grosso wrote: The tool is merely subsetting the list of tags it shows the user when the user goes to a menu of tags I can insert here. But it's still valid to insert (or have) any tag in the full DTD, and you can always click the button on the tool that says show me all tags instead of just the most used subset. (For example, Epic Editor supports this kind of thing.) As per the Microsoft 'learning' pull downs? I don't use it, so its not on the pull down list? I need to hit the 'expand' arrow to see the full list? The only other effect of size is performance. And I suggest that any attempt to save milliseconds in performance is going to be overshadowed by the hours spent in interoperability problems inherent in approaches 3 and 4 above. Sorry Paul, I don't see that. Its my head that can't handle it, not the tools. Hence the interop issue is a non starter for me. Suppose your head can only remember the simplified subset. So what if your doctype declaration points to the full DTD, all your head has to handle is the set you're using. In what way does having lots of tags in the DTD that you are never going to learn or use give your head a problem? If you haven't learned about them and don't use them, how can the fact that they're in the DTD bother your head--your head doesn't even know they are there. I think we are suggesting the same thing from a different angle. emacs offers me 100 items at C-c C-e. I scan for what I know, ignoring those I don't. I still need them there for the 'odd jobs' so want them to be there (for the tools and interop). regards DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: On the size of DocBook...
At 12:42 06/09/2002, Michael Smith wrote: Anyway, about the question at the end of number 3 above -- But what will that do to interchange? -- It seems like interchange isn't an issue if * the customized DTDs are strict subsets of the complete DTD * and users/user communities treat their customized DTDs as authoring DTDs and continue to use the full DTD for validation (that is, don't expect that DTDs that others interchange with their community will validate against their custom authoring-DTD subset) I had an 'ah ha' moment at xml-extreme this year. People don't give a ... about markup validity. Its our XML tools that do. The 'authoring' environment vs the 'interchange' environment? Hence Michaels point is quite valid. If they are all good subsets then we shouldn't see that problem. One of the values of having a set of standard strict-subset authoring DTDs is that would be carefully considered by the TC, potentially a lot more carefully than possibly-not-compatible-with-one-antoher ad-hoc custom authoring DTDs that users from the same community might end up creating and propagating and using. What impact might that have on the stylesheets Norm? Divergent sets of stylesheets for pizza slices? What I mean is, I think maybe there are some identifiable DocBook user sub-communities within which users have the same basic markup needs -- their needs within their community are not that radically different from one another. If the TC doesn't produce a subset that meets their needs, and that community is not well-organized enough to produce a suitable custom authoring DTD on its own, we risk having individual users within those communities producing conflicting, sub-optimal customizations. IMO it's the combination of dtd and stylesheets that make it what it is. One without the other would be a minor nicety. My experience is that users and user communities -- especially those that might be considered casual document authors (for example, individual open-source developers who write docs for their own applications) really, really, don't like to be told, DocBook is highly customizable -- go ahead and customize it to meet your needs. It seems like what they want typically want instead is something that just works right off the shelf. Bottom line its just too hard unless you've been there before? Time could be better spent elsewhere. That's it for now. But I really hope we can continue the discussion about this and maybe arrive at some resolutions. Picking up Pauls point, user demand is for 'less necessity' for customisation, i.e. easier out of the box usage. Less tags in a vertical slice of pizza, i.e. still valid to BBdocbook (big brother), but 'appropriate' to my niche? The stylesheets? I'd leave that to Norm. I have a nasty feeling they *could* ride such a divide? regards DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: Re: On the size of DocBook...
At 22:14 06/09/2002, Norman Walsh wrote: / Adam Turoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] was heard to say: [...] Taking things slightly out of order... | Just for kicks, how difficult would it be to refactor DocBook into | a simple core (based on Simplified DocBook, or the moral equivalent), | and implement the full DTD as multiple layers of customizations on Quite. Hard that is. And it would introduce N! different DocBooks. How easy would that be to explain? I don't see it like that Norm. I learn the basics (simplified). Then I need X layer/customisation, so I have to learn some percentage of an additional layer of tags, in which I must have interest, else I wouldn't bother? You don't eat the chocolate cake whole, you do it in bytes :-) Would the learning curve for DocBook Core + DocBook Dublin Core + DocBook Unix really have a significantly gentler slope? Yes, because its likely to be done over time. I want to see it working at first (I don't believe it), so I keep to simplified. ONly when my confidence grows do I chance using XML tagger 'chunk'. Then, later, I need some OO markup or whatever. By now I know how to 'add' a chunk, and my confidence has grown again. Its in the head, not the tools. Aren't the really hard issues editorial? Learning how to do structured authoring is hard. I suggest that it's possible that learning how to do structured authoring with a big DTD is only incrementally more difficult than learning how to do it with a small DTD. Seperable, IMO. its a mindset thing, hard with ten tags, another layer of difficulty if faced with 100? Regards DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: Re: On the size of DocBook...
At 00:03 07/09/2002, Norman Walsh wrote: | I suspect it wouldn't be difficult at all. Most of that work is | already done in TDG. Identifying the most important core 25-50 | elements might be a little tricky, I tried to identify the core 25-50 elements, I wound up with more than 100. Start with 'article' as the only root and give it a whirl. Which 'head' did you have on Norm? tdg author? TC chair? Going back to your earlier point about getting used to structured markup, put on a Word users head (OK, hat). OK article as root. Major chunks. sect1..3 would do. major blocks title, para, two lists and literallayout inlines emph, internal, external links Remember what this word guy is trying to do. Get used to structured markup. With the above its possible to teach the basics. Not 100. (Chances are that with not much more than that, you'd have covered 70% of my use of docbook markup). I'm not a Unix manual writer, I'm learning to use XML. Thats sufficient to 'get into docbook'. Semantic markup comes later! HTML has a good deal more than 14 elements, even if most people don't use most of them. Which is sort of the point, I think. Exactly. I've said enough now, I think I'm harping on. regards DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: Referencing examples and figures
At 18:22 11/09/2002, Sebastian Bergmann wrote: Hi there. How do I best go about referencing figures and examples, so that I only get their number in the rendered output, when using the DocBook XSL stylesheets? Example: para Example reference/ shows ... /para example ... /example Output: Example 4.2 shows ... para xref=ex1002/ shows . then example id=ex1002 titleBackground and border colours/title programlisting format=linespecific hth DaveP
DOCBOOK: Re: resolver for xml catalogs
At 04:38 12/09/2002, Michael Smith wrote: Norman Walsh [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: / Zhuravleva, Tatyana [EMAIL PROTECTED] was heard to say: | I've been trying to download the URI resolver from | http://wwws.sun.com/software/xml/developers/resolver/ | for two weeks now; keep getting some transaction error. Bleh. | Is there any alternative location where I could get it?... Yes, it's part of the XML Commons package at xml.apache.org. Here's a direct link to the download directory: http://xml.apache.org/dist/commons/ Make sure to grab the latest release - currently, xml-commons-1.0.b2 - and note that all you really need from the distribution is the resolver.jar file (in the /java/build/ directory). And Norm's writeup (screwed by Suns processing of it :-) It's worth a read... and for reference. For the purposes of doing entity and URI resolving, you can safely ignore the rest of the stuff in the xml-commons distro. More details about XML Catalogs and the resolver classes is available at: http://docbook.org/wiki/moin.cgi/DocBookAndXmlCatalogs declaration: As those of you monitoring the oft dormant irc channel may have realised, I'm becoming an avid xml catalog fan. I'm going to do some more write-up on it soon Stopping smoking is taking most of my attention recently. I've now moved all my xslt (Saxon) and xml validation to a catalog based application from Daniel, xmllint (daft name but it works :-) which is proving really valuable in terms of time saving. Do try it, it makes me smile! regards DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: Re: number continuation with orderedlist
At 12:47 02/10/2002, Norman Walsh wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 / Bob Stayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] was heard to say: | I noticed you also tried to use the inheritnum=inherit attribute | for any interior nested orderedlists. | That also does not appear to be implemented in the XSL | stylesheets. That would be another feature request if | you want that to actually work. I'm also fixing that for the FO case. I don't think HTML supports inherited numerations on OLs. ol liItem 1/li liItem 2/li pSome para within original lsit/p liItem 3/li /ol ol start=4 liItem 1, second list./li /ol Sort of, you need to give it the start number? HTH DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: simple ToC question
At 18:35 02/10/2002, Federico Sacerdoti wrote: Hello, We here at SDSC love docbook as everyone does. I have a question about how we can make our HTML ToC look better. Currently, our Rocks cluster homepage, http://www.rocksclusters.org/, is very simple, and I feel hard to visually parse. Perspective? Its 'visually' well laid out, IMO numbers wouldn't help with that? If it were chapters or sections which actually numbered... but Installing a Rocks Cluster isn't section/chapter 2, so (very much my opinion) it's not needed? However :-) See http://www.dpawson.co.uk/docbook/styling/params.html#d6e18 or http://docbook.sourceforge.net/release/xsl/current/doc/fo/chapter.autolabel.html and lots of stuff more http://docbook.sourceforge.net/release/xsl/current/doc/html/index.html is the html version. Makes delicious reading (perhaps I shouldn't admit that :-) regards DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: Re: Question about glossaries
At 11:55 04/10/2002, Norman Walsh wrote: | Why the content of the acronym elements are not rendered | when generating a glossary document? Because I have no idea how best to render them in the general case. But I'm open to suggestions. emcontent/em As a suggestion, html. Equivalent fo perhaps? italics, same font. I.e. nominal emphasis, inline. regards DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: Re: Subsets anyone?
At 00:27 07/10/2002, ed nixon wrote: I can't resist even though I should have done an archive search before posting: given that Topic Maps came out of the early DocBook efforts, what has been done by folks on the list or elsewhere to implement Topic Maps over DocBook and/or a collection of DocBook documents? Tools, schema, papers, whatever? Feeling quite guilty Ed. Nil. Though I'd second the need. I'm getting so many bitching (very polite, but bitching ntl), type of mails about the faq, that I think xtm might be the only solution, then use that for a furking great index, so that each topic has about 100 links. I've still done next to nil about it, but its certainly on my to do list. regards DaveP.
Re: DOCBOOK: problems with install on windows platform
At 21:26 08/10/2002, Daniel Veillard wrote: Not really. Basically if you give a filename as an input it may have to be used later to build an URI from an URI-Reference and there things were turning nasty if you were using Windows path names like c:\foo\bar for example ../foo2 would give back foo2 and not c:\foo2 OK. I'm getting used to x: or file:///x: or similar not working. What I've not seen is a way of getting round it. E.g. Some X* setting that says, use this 'windows path' as a root or something, ie. something that gets round this windows craziness. Where X might be (env variable set to c:/dir/dir2, parameter set to C:, or almost anything similar, which is well thought out. I doubt I would want to refer to f:dir/file from a stylesheet on c:/dir; i.e. more likely I would want to say ../../ etc, Not suggesting a solution, just an approach? Regards DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: problems with install on windows platform
At 18:50 09/10/2002, Daniel Veillard wrote: OK. I'm getting used to x: or file:///x: or similar not working. What I've not seen is a way of getting round it. Okay, then like for any libxslt/libxml2 bug tell the conditions where this give a problem, and I will try to fix it (or get it fixed with the help of the Windows maintainers). Preferably on the [EMAIL PROTECTED] list, since it's not Docbook specific. Heck Daniel this is XML specific. Even the guru's on the XSLT list can't figure this out. I think what I'm saying is: Propose a method for resolving windows specific file locations, and I think you could get it accepted quite widely. No one understands the file:///c:/dir/dir/file.xml rubbish. If its relative, no one understands what its relative to (source xml or stylesheet or .). You are providing an environment within which it could be resolved (my view - others may differ). propose a solution which is simple and understandable. If its a worker, I feel sure adoption would come. grin/ then get Norm to take it to TAG for adoption! regards DaveP.
Re: DOCBOOK: Re: Markup for exercises
At 16:43 10/10/2002, Joachim Ziegler wrote: BTW, I've written a book about learning programming. It was coded in Latex (and in German). I'm currently evaluating DocBook as a basis for the second print of this book or for some other book about programming (mainly because I like the ability to output HTML). The more I learn, the less I'm convinced that the current state of the XSL technology will produce a high quality PDF output comparable to Latex. Am I right? If DocBook is not the right DTD for writing a book about programming (including exercises), what else in the XML world is? Should I stick with Latex? grin/ Sounds like a bribe/blackmail Joachim? I'd suggest stick with latex Or whatever else turns you on. DaveP.
Re: DOCBOOK: Re: Markup for exercises
At 15:45 16/10/2002, Togan Muftuoglu wrote: * Norman Walsh; [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 16 Oct, 2002 wrote: I'm personally quite unhappy with this proposal as it's written. It me too with what I see below :-) adds five fairly general sounding element names (setup, scenario, task, objective, and solution) in a fairly narrow context. Experience suggests that this is too specific; it will work for some people, but it will spawn frequent requests for more flexibility and new special-purpose elements. Objective in my opionion is a higher level element. module moduleinfo title/title objective orderedlist listitem /listitem listitem /listitem /orderedlist /moduleinfo . exercise exerciseinfo.../exerciseinfo exercisesectiontitleSetup/title... exercisesectiontitleScenario/title... exercisesectiontitleTask/title exercisesectiontitleSolution/title /exercise /module How this sound to you ? Agree with Norm about exercisesection being quite a mouthful, Either his generic section, or is there a policy on abbreviating? exsection Too short? exersection then? regards Davep -- Togan Muftuoglu
Re: DOCBOOK: Re: Marking Up Taxonomic Names
At 02:28 19/10/2002, Norman Walsh wrote: Carefully document his processing expectations. I mean, if you rely on foreignphrase or emphasis or even phrase with (or without) a role attribute to give special presentation, write that down somewhere. It'll save you hours of pain later when you give the document to someone else to process and they use some different tools. Does the role value get through to html (via xslt) yet please? As a class attribute? Regards DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: Re: Markup for exercises
At 21:18 11/10/2002, Joachim Ziegler wrote: An exercise consists of a problem and eventually its solution(s). In a course, when it comes to an exercise, I might say Write a program that outputs HELLO WORLD. There is no question/answer involved here. If I were a student, I'd interpret that as: questionGenerate a program. /question You may not call it a question, I assure you 99% of students would take it as exactly that. I'm sure the linguists have a name for such as this. But a problem may well consist of finding the answer to a given question. (No matter how its phrases :-) Regards DaveP.
Re: DOCBOOK: Using HTMLHELP
At 03:28 07/11/2002, David Novak wrote: I tried to fix all these bugs, and for some of the processors I almost succeeded but when I finally got messages like: Don't know how to chunk with SAXON 7.2 from Michael Kay I almost stopped to trust in XML world... AFAIK docbook doesn't work with xslt 2.0 yet. go back to Saxon 6.5.2 and it should be OK. HTH DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: fo and slides
At 09:31 08/11/2002, Adrian Matellanes wrote: Hi all, I am currently using Norman's SLIDE doctype from CVS, everything works well but I cannot generate pdf handouts with 'fo' xsl. I get the following error: cannnot find /sourceforge/xsl/docbook.xsl Does anybody know how can I solve this? Use Norm Walsh's catalogue software. Works (partly) for me. that reference is to the standard distro of the docbook xsl stylesheet. Unless you are connected to the net, its going to fail regards DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: Favorite editing tool on windows based machine.
At 19:39 24/11/2002, Uten Navn wrote: If you are on a slow line and have Java installed (suppose you have to compile docbooks..:o) you definitely want jedit. It is a reasonable small download. 1.4MB beats the 17MB download for emacs. Just observe that the package manager requires a connection to download the XML plugins. Over 5 years, the efficiency of emacs must beat the *'% of out anything else... even if only used for xml. when its used for java, python text . If you know your way around emacs you might prefer that package, but jedit is really appealing. One hour of fiddling, and I'm sold on it. OK, I guess I spent more than one hour fiddling with emacs. But can jedit show you a calender view? Or provide a yard of motd? I doubt it. DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: DocBook and M$ Word
At 13:06 25/11/2002, Anton N. Mescheryakov wrote: So, can anyone tell how can I work with such a boss and still use DocBook to write and publish? Shoot him :-) I know some anti-Word tools out there, but how good actualy they are? If he doesn't want to listen, no matter what you say, you will be wrong! Regards DaveP (I've tried persuading such a person!)
Re: DOCBOOK: Request for comments: adding a Fileoutput element (RFE613293)
At 15:35 28/11/2002 +0900, Michael Smith wrote: The DocBook Technical Committee would like to ask for comments from readers of this list about a request for an enhancement to the DocBook DTD, RFE 613293, 'Generalize programlisting'[1], which proposes that the DTD be enhanced in some way to provide a 'semantically-precise way to wrap the contents of files that are not programs'. In the faq (docbook and xslt) I generally differentiate between a 'full' program (use programlisting) and a snippet that is being discussed (use literllayout). I'd generally support a new element to try and capture the idea of an extract from a file/listing/etc. fileoutput as such an element name strikes be as the best option, I am less keen on extending the attribute lists. It still misses my 'snippet' or filextract sementics, but is closer than the vague literallayout or (my case frequently wrong) programlisting. Regards DaveP
RE: DOCBOOK: Image callouts supported by XSL-FO stylesheet?
example
programlisting format=linespecific
lt;fo:block id={@id} co id=l11/
lt;xsl:apply-templates/lt;/fo:block
lt;/xsl:template
lt;xsl:template match=xref
lt;fo:inline lt;fo:basic-link
internal-destination={@idref} co id=l2/
Chapter
/programlisting
calloutlist
callout arearefs=l11
para ../para
/callout
/calloutlist
/example
this method doesn't position the callout pixel perfect, but it isn't far
out wrt the textual position.
HTH DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: example of docbook for FAQ?
At 02:27 01/12/2002 +, Joseph Panico wrote: Could someone point me to a docbook markup for producing nice looking FAQs? The kinds with TOC/index. Any pointers appreciated. I use website, with the following structure ?xml version=1.0 encoding=iso-8859-1 ? !-- Time-stamp: 2002-06-16 18:02:15 Dave Pawson -- !DOCTYPE webpage SYSTEM ../nw/docbook/website3/website.dtd webpage navto=yes id=dbroot head titleDocbook Frequently Asked Questions/title summaryDocbook FAQ/summary keywordsdocbook faq FAQ/keywords /head qandaset qandaentry question para/para /question answer para role=author/para literallayout format=linespecific class=normal /literallayout /answer /qandaentry The id value is used to create the filename through the parameter settings. Each file takes a topic containing multiple qnaentry elements wrapped in the qandaset. The result is at www.dpawson.co.uk/docbook HTH DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: docbook provided xsl stylesheets and ant?
At 23:12 01/12/2002 +, Joseph Panico wrote: Hi, I'm trying to use the xsl stylesheets (docbook.xsl) from the DocBook open repository with the ant 'style' task. By default, ant invokes Xalan and Xalan chokes on some XPath statement in those stylesheets. Supposedly Saxon will work, but despite what the ant documentation says, I can't get ant to use Saxon rather than Xalan. Has anyone had any success in this area? I'm not an Xalan user. I have had success with Saxon. See http://www.dpawson.co.uk/docbook/ant.html (~Sorry about the XX inclusion. Possibly more testing?) HTH DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: Re: Request for comments: adding a Fileoutput element(RFE 613293)
At 16:35 06/12/2002 -0500, Norman Walsh wrote: It really seems like we shouldn't need all of these: programlisting, screen, synopsis, literallayout, and verbatim. How does this sound: 1. Add 'verbatim'. !ELEMENT verbatim (...) !ATTLIST verbatim class(normal|monospaced) monospaced contents CDATA #IMPLIED Contents is where you can say it's a configfile or a cprogram or whatever you like. 2. We consider removing 'screen', 'synopsis', and 'literallayout' in favor of 'verbatim' at some point in the future. We could remove programlisting too, but I'm very hesitant to do that. I prefer verbatim to literallayout. Never used screen so I wouldn't miss it. I differentiate programlisting, that's noticably different semantically? regards DaveP
Re: AW: DOCBOOK: OT -- need more info on website.dtd
At 14:06 26/01/2003 +0100, Jiri Kuthan wrote: At 01:53 PM 1/26/2003, Robert P. J. Day wrote: you can email me offline with your offerings, unless there are others who are also interested. thanks. Others are interested, I am :-) please email me too. If questions are answered on the list, I'll add them to the faq. That's why I like to see nice clear, complete answers like Bobs :-) regards DaveP
Re: DOCBOOK: OT -- need more info on website.dtd
At 02:17 27/01/2003 -0800, Bob Stayton wrote: You are in luck. I just uploaded the new version of my Using the DocBook XSL Stylesheets, and it includes a new section on using Website. http://www.sagehill.net/xml/docbookxsl/PreCustom.html#Website OK, I give in. Bob, would you put me down for a copy of this book when it comes out sigh/ It's getting to be essential reading :-) regards DaveP
[docbook] namespace markup
I'm writing about XML. I can identify elements, attributes but AFAIK I can't identify namespaces semantically? Any suggestions please? regards -- Dave Pawson XSLT XSL-FO FAQ. http://www.dpawson.co.uk - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [docbook] namespace markup
Chris Chiasson wrote: IMO, namespaces are a scoping construct. Did you mean to ask how to identify namespaces (not namespace prefixes) syntactically? No. See Jirka's answer. I want to talk about ns X regards DaveP I can identify elements, attributes but AFAIK I can't identify namespaces semantically? Any suggestions please? regards -- Dave Pawson XSLT XSL-FO FAQ. http://www.dpawson.co.uk - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] regards -- Dave Pawson XSLT XSL-FO FAQ. http://www.dpawson.co.uk - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [docbook] namespace markup
Jirka Kosek wrote: Bob Stayton wrote: In DocBook 4.5, the sgmltag element has a class attribute with enumerated values. One of those enumerated values is 'namespace'. For some reason, the equivalent tag element in 5.0 is missing that value and a few others. I think it is an oversight, and I filed an RFE to see if it should get fixed. So I think this is how a namespace name should be marked up: tag class=namespacehttp://docbook.org/ns/docbook/tag I still think that uri type=xmlnamespacehttp://docbook.org/ns/docbook/uri is much more proper way of marking namespace. Namespace itself is not tag, nor other part of markup. I am talking about a namespace... so uri class='namespace'x.y.z/uri seems good to me. I can style it as needed using css. regards -- Dave Pawson XSLT XSL-FO FAQ. http://www.dpawson.co.uk - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [docbook] namespace markup
Bob Stayton wrote: How about prefix and localname? Wouldn't those be considered part of the markup, and appropriate class names for tag? Trust Bob :-! How about a namespace attribute: xmlns=http://docbook.org/ns/docbook Wouldn't that be marked with tag with class=attribute? It is part of the markup in a document. If I want to say I have a namespace http://example.com and a prefix bob: How should I mark it up. Back to you Bob. regards -- Dave Pawson XSLT XSL-FO FAQ. http://www.dpawson.co.uk - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [docbook] namespace markup
Peter Ring wrote: An XML namespace is not an URI; rather it is is *identified* by an URI reference. Oh dear. (I hate people who are 'right' especially when I didn't think of it. To be more precise, a subset of URI references with semantics that differ from URI references in general. The empty string is an URI reference, but the empty string cannot be used as an XML namespace name. We'll let that pass (default ns?) Relative URI references are deprecated as XML namespace names. +1 XML namespace names are compared by string equality, i.e. not the way URI references are resolved. [1] No, but as 'strings' they are uri's? In short: an XML namespace name looks a lot like an URI, and an XML namespace declaration look a lot like assigning a value to an attribute. But you cannot really infer much about the semantics of XML namespaces from that. An XML namespace name is not a type of URI. Tell you what Peter. I'll ask the stupid questions. You come back with the 'right' answers, to guide us, and the db comittee can think about it for a while. Agreed? regards -- Dave Pawson XSLT XSL-FO FAQ. http://www.dpawson.co.uk - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [docbook] docbook5 and adding elements (long)
Bob Stayton wrote: Do you know of a good step-by-step example of customizing Docbook5 with RelaxNG? Have you seen the DocBook 5.0 Transition Guide? It has examples: http://www.docbook.org/docs/howto/ A very good read IMHO. If you search through the archives of this mailing list, I posted a 'mini' docbook, simple or some such title, which is a reduction to a tiny subset. It really is well designed for customisation. A dream compared to the entity method. http://www.dpawson.co.uk/nodesets/entries/051130.html and http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/docbook-apps/200511/msg00107.html hth regards -- Dave Pawson XSLT XSL-FO FAQ. http://www.dpawson.co.uk - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[docbook] v5 feature request.
Could I request a (negative) addition to the schema please. define name=db._any a:documentationAny element from almost any namespace/a:documentation element anyName except nsName/ nsName ns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/ !-- DP Added for litprog-- nsName ns=http://nwalsh.com/xmlns/litprog/fragment/ /except /anyName zeroOrMore choice ref name=db._any.attribute/ text/ ref name=db._any/ /choice /zeroOrMore /element /define This to enable the schema to work with the litprog work that Norm has done. Also, for the record, though I believe Jirka has reported it. define name=db.computeroutput.inlines choice choice text/ ref name=db.ubiq.inlines/ ref name=db.os.inlines/ ref name=db.technical.inlines/ ref name=db.markup.inlines/ /choice ref name=db.co/!-- DP. Error Duplicated below? -- ref name=db.co/ /choice /define A duplicate reference to db.co regards regards -- Dave Pawson XSLT XSL-FO FAQ. http://www.dpawson.co.uk - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [docbook] docbook5 and adding elements (long)
Kells Kearney wrote: Have you seen the DocBook 5.0 Transition Guide? It has examples: http://www.docbook.org/docs/howto/ I had read this before, but it doesn't actually show the basic mechanics so that I can just use it. For instance, * What programs are used to convert between the compact syntax and XML syntax? Thanks to the links from Dick Hamilton I understand that James Clark's 'trang' is most often used, but I'd never know that from the Transition Guide. Then you need to read up on Relax NG. * How do you use the resulting RelaxNG XML file in a real-world XML document? I gather from Bob Stayton's reply that I should convert the RNG files (my customizations + the Docbook5 RNG) to a DTD. I guess that means that I should just put a !DOCTYPE book SYSTEM mynew.DTD in the front of the document. Does that mean that I then throw out the namespaces? No. You can validate with a Schema. Schema = dtd|W3C xsd | relax NG 'Jing' from James Clark allows you to validate an XML instance against a schema (relax ng in this case) I think that the previous example of asmbook (extending Docbook5 with register and instruction elements) is really close, so with perhaps just a little bit of corrections and gap filling I'll have a good foundation to build up and test my understanding. Would it be possible for someone to post the (hopefully small) corrections to that example? Not without hand holding. You go do the reading and come back with the questions. I'm sure you'll get help. regards -- Dave Pawson XSLT XSL-FO FAQ. http://www.dpawson.co.uk - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [docbook] v5 feature request.
Jirka Kosek wrote: Dave Pawson wrote: Could I request a (negative) addition to the schema please. define name=db._any a:documentationAny element from almost any namespace/a:documentation element anyName except nsName/ nsName ns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/ !-- DP Added for litprog-- nsName ns=http://nwalsh.com/xmlns/litprog/fragment/ /except /anyName Unfortunately you hit one of the very few limits of RELAX NG. You can not use general patterns inside anyName, so it is not possible to add new excluded namespace simply by combining new namespace name with an existing pattern for excluded namespaces. You have to redefine whole pattern for db._any. Yes, that was the request Jirka. regards -- Dave Pawson XSLT XSL-FO FAQ. http://www.dpawson.co.uk - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [docbook] Callout, footnotes, annotations.
cga2000 wrote: can imagine creating alternative output of callouts using SVG to draw connecting arrows instead bulleted numbers. That's (vaguely) what I had in mind .. clean arrows, rather than these ugly hyphens .. etc. But I didn't find any sample or doc that would show you how to do that so I figured it wasn't possible. Rather than having n callouts on one line, why not make 5 references to the same one? lt;define name=section co xml:id=triggers.ex3.3/ lt;element name=section lt;element name=titlelt;text/lt;/element lt;oneOrMorelt;element name=paralt;text/lt;/elementlt;/oneOrMore lt;/element lt;/define lt;define name=sect co xml:id=triggers.ex3.4/ lt;element name=sect lt;element name=headlt;text/lt;/element lt;oneOrMorelt;element name=paralt;text/lt;/elementlt;/oneOrMore lt;/element lt;/define lt;/grammar /programlisting calloutlist callout arearefs=triggers.ex3.1 paraAny of the 3 elements may be used as the start element/para /callout callout arearefs=triggers.ex3.2 paraThe root element is defined as being empty/para /callout callout arearefs=triggers.ex3.3 paraThe tag class=elementsection/tag element contains a tag class=elementtitle/tag child/para /callout callout arearefs=triggers.ex3.4 paraThe tag class=elementsect/tag element contains a tag class=elementhead /tag child/para /callout /calloutlist /example No reason I can't have 5 callouts, each specifying the same co element? Does that helpl? btw, I hope you have the appropriate customisation in place, to use the Unicode glyphs instead of just numbers? regards regards -- Dave Pawson XSLT XSL-FO FAQ. http://www.dpawson.co.uk - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[docbook] v5 version information.
From a quick look, it appears as if there is no version information in the .rng file for the docbook schema itself? !-- DocBook V5.0CR3-- !-- See http://docbook.org/ns/docbook -- Seems the only reference? I'd find it helpful if it were available. regards -- Dave Pawson XSLT XSL-FO FAQ. http://www.dpawson.co.uk - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [docbook] How to decrease font in the code examples
Markus Innerebner wrote: Hello to everyone, I am trying to decrease the font size of the examples. para example titleMy First Example/title programlisting ![CDATA[ root child id=123/ /root ]] /programlisting /example /para Is there a way to specify it somewhere? The problem is, I have a big xml document, that actually occupies the hole page. Therefore I want to decrease the font of the example. Use CSS (assuming html output). Use a role attribute on the element, then CSS to Style the output. HTH regards -- Dave Pawson XSLT XSL-FO FAQ. http://www.dpawson.co.uk - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [docbook] Indicating recipients of a document?
Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: I'm authoring a Docbook document and I indicate myself as author. My supervisor would like to have the recipients of the document (another division, who requested this report) indicated. I find no: recipient role=customer person ... element. Did I miss something? Is it a case for a little local customization of the Docbook schema? Variant on dedication? Acknowledgments? contractsponsor? Not many books 'acknowledge' the recipient... not many are written for one person / group of people! regards -- Dave Pawson XSLT XSL-FO FAQ. http://www.dpawson.co.uk - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
