Re: [docbook-apps] Using the DocBook XSLT 2.0 stylesheets with Gradle

[David Cramer]

On 3/5/18 11:33 AM, Dave Pawson wrote:

ant lets me pick / choose bits|all
Am I odd? Minority? Majority?


You are very odd Dave, but don't change the subject ;-)

In my case a couple of toolchain developers (minority) support a large 
number of authors (majority). The tools developer's job is to make it so 
the authors can create content without knowing much about the magic that 
turns that into pdf/html/xml artifacts. A system for managing 
dependencies like gradle+maven artifacts makes it easy to roll out 
changes without breaking existing doc builds and to hide lots of 
complexity from users.


Of course they need to understand enough to create correct markup, but 
few if any of my authors will ever subscribe to this list, but they're 
still DocBook users.


Regards,
David

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[docbook-apps] Re: Using the DocBook XSLT 2.0 stylesheets with Gradle

[Norman Walsh]

Dave Pawson  writes:
> My position.
>   1. I don't stretch the schema (db simple would likely suffice)
>   2. I haven't updated my stylesheets in ages
>   3. I build html / pdf with svg ... (500k + words)
>   4. I want (need?) to validate as an option.
>   5. All files are on my hard drive
>
> ant lets me pick / choose bits|all
> Am I odd? Minority? Majority?

I don’t know if you’re in the minority or the majority. You’re
definitely in the “I’ve had this working since the previous millenium”
group, though.

There’s no reason you have to change.

That said, if you switch from the 1.0 stylesheets to the 2.0
stylesheets, you’ll find that you need to update your environment with
new tools.

If you want to do that by grabbing all the jars and installing them
locally and setting up your classpath and updating your shell scripts,
etc., by all means go for it. I’ve done it that way lots of times.

>  Who needs steenkin
> esisinternet 
>
> Sorry - that quote stuck from dsssl days Norm - bet you've forgotten it.

I remember the ESIS. :-)

Be seeing you,
  norm

-- 
Norman Walsh  | We discover in ourselves what others
http://nwalsh.com/| hide from us, and we recognize in
  | others what we hide from
  | ourselves.--Vauvenargues


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Re: [docbook-apps] Using the DocBook XSLT 2.0 stylesheets with Gradle

[Dave Pawson]

Fair comment David.

Tempted to ask just how many are in that camp vs  like us who do
odd things with docbook.
(for some defn of odd).

My position.
  1. I don't stretch the schema (db simple would likely suffice)
  2. I haven't updated my stylesheets in ages
  3. I build html / pdf with svg ... (500k + words)
  4. I want (need?) to validate as an option.
  5. All files are on my hard drive

ant lets me pick / choose bits|all
Am I odd? Minority? Majority?

 Who needs steenkin
esisinternet 

Sorry - that quote stuck from dsssl days Norm - bet you've forgotten it.

regards



On 5 March 2018 at 17:24, David Cramer  wrote:
> On 3/5/18 10:14 AM, Dave Pawson wrote:
>>
>> I got as far as ant for builds. I can understand most of that.
>>
>> Bash script... similar? Maybe
>>
>> gradle? Wozzat.
>>
>> Why make it deeper than needs be?
>
>
> Dave,
>
> The idea is to make it super easy for someone (e.g. an author) who just
> wants to build the doc. They don't want to install a ton of stuff _at the
> right version_ and keep track of it.
>
> From an end-user's perspective, setting up the whole tool chain and building
> the doc at most three steps:
>
> # You only have to do this once (or use apt-get/yum or whatever windows
> # users do to install software):
> brew install gradle
>
> # Get DocBook xml source from whatever source control system
> # it lives in...
> git clone  && cd somedoc
>
> # This installs the DocBook toolchain and builds the doc:
> gradle somedoc
>
> Even as new versions of the underlying tools come out, "somedoc" continues
> to build because your gradle file indicates what versions it depends on.
> However, you easily can switch to newer versions if you need to.
>
> Regards,
> David
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: docbook-apps-unsubscr...@lists.oasis-open.org
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>



-- 
Dave Pawson
XSLT XSL-FO FAQ.
Docbook FAQ.

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Re: [docbook-apps] Using the DocBook XSLT 2.0 stylesheets with Gradle

[David Cramer]

On 3/5/18 10:14 AM, Dave Pawson wrote:

I got as far as ant for builds. I can understand most of that.

Bash script... similar? Maybe

gradle? Wozzat.

Why make it deeper than needs be?


Dave,

The idea is to make it super easy for someone (e.g. an author) who just 
wants to build the doc. They don't want to install a ton of stuff _at 
the right version_ and keep track of it.


From an end-user's perspective, setting up the whole tool chain and 
building the doc at most three steps:


# You only have to do this once (or use apt-get/yum or whatever windows
# users do to install software):
brew install gradle

# Get DocBook xml source from whatever source control system
# it lives in...
git clone  && cd somedoc

# This installs the DocBook toolchain and builds the doc:
gradle somedoc

Even as new versions of the underlying tools come out, "somedoc" 
continues to build because your gradle file indicates what versions it 
depends on. However, you easily can switch to newer versions if you need 
to.


Regards,
David

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[docbook-apps] Re: Using the DocBook XSLT 2.0 stylesheets with Gradle

[Dave Pawson]

On 5 March 2018 at 16:54, Norman Walsh  wrote:
> Dave Pawson  writes:
>> I stopped at "you don't have to understand it" Norm?
>> ... rude words.
>
> Apologies. No disrespect intended.

None taken Norm, just a bit... odd?
Especially with our docbook users!

>
>> I got as far as ant for builds. I can understand most of that.
>> Bash script... similar? Maybe
>> gradle? Wozzat.
>>
>> Why make it deeper than needs be?
>
> Well…I’m not sure I agree that it’s deeper than it needs to be.
> I’ve been building toolchains for ages: make, ant, bash, perl,
> ruby, python, sbt, etc. etc. etc.
>
> I settled on Gradle because of the advantages I outlined in that
> posting: it’s significantly better than ant for dealing with Maven and
> for extensibility; it’s cross platform (unlike bash); it’s relatively
> easy to install on most platforms (unlike make, perl, etc.); and it
> transparently deals with a whole lot of the backend infrastructure.

>From my reading, it sounds like it works, for Norms setup?


My 2009 build (ant) still works.

I do wonder how wide the network of users are?
  What versions are in use etc?

Hence how gradle / maven etc will work for us?

I'll shut up now.

regards

-- 
Dave Pawson
XSLT XSL-FO FAQ.
Docbook FAQ.

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[docbook-apps] Re: Using the DocBook XSLT 2.0 stylesheets with Gradle

[Norman Walsh]

Dave Pawson  writes:
> I stopped at "you don't have to understand it" Norm?
> ... rude words.

Apologies. No disrespect intended.

> I got as far as ant for builds. I can understand most of that.
> Bash script... similar? Maybe
> gradle? Wozzat.
>
> Why make it deeper than needs be?

Well…I’m not sure I agree that it’s deeper than it needs to be.
I’ve been building toolchains for ages: make, ant, bash, perl,
ruby, python, sbt, etc. etc. etc.

I settled on Gradle because of the advantages I outlined in that
posting: it’s significantly better than ant for dealing with Maven and
for extensibility; it’s cross platform (unlike bash); it’s relatively
easy to install on most platforms (unlike make, perl, etc.); and it
transparently deals with a whole lot of the backend infrastructure.

Be seeing you,
  norm

-- 
Norman Walsh  | The finest amusements are the most
http://nwalsh.com/| pointless ones.--Jacques Chardonne


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Re: [docbook-apps] Using the DocBook XSLT 2.0 stylesheets with Gradle

[Dave Pawson]

I stopped at "you don't have to understand it" Norm?

... rude words.

I got as far as ant for builds. I can understand most of that.

Bash script... similar? Maybe

gradle? Wozzat.

Why make it deeper than needs be?

Dave




On 5 March 2018 at 15:34, Norman Walsh  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Of possible interest to the readers of this list:
>
>   https://so.nwalsh.com/2018/03/05/easy
>
> (I found a couple of bugs so there’ll be updates within a day or two,
> but I still think it might be of interest.)
>
> Be seeing you,
>   norm
>
> --
> Norman Walsh  | Sun System & Network Admin manualIt is
> http://nwalsh.com/| important to realize that any lock can
>   | be picked with a big enough hammer.



-- 
Dave Pawson
XSLT XSL-FO FAQ.
Docbook FAQ.

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[docbook-apps] Using the DocBook XSLT 2.0 stylesheets with Gradle

[Norman Walsh]

Hello,

Of possible interest to the readers of this list:

  https://so.nwalsh.com/2018/03/05/easy

(I found a couple of bugs so there’ll be updates within a day or two,
but I still think it might be of interest.)

Be seeing you,
  norm

-- 
Norman Walsh  | Sun System & Network Admin manualIt is
http://nwalsh.com/| important to realize that any lock can
  | be picked with a big enough hammer.


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