Re: [libreoffice-documentation] English videos in help files

2018-04-27 Thread Ilmari Lauhakangas 

On 27.04.2018 15:00, Ilmari Lauhakangas wrote:
If and when videos are included, I assume they are produced from a 
written script. Providing this script would be the resource any 
deployments can use to solve their respective translation & a11y 
conformance issues. Even better would be timed subtitle files (more work).


A next level solution might be to use the cool UI testing framework 
created by Markus Mohrhard to programmatically define the content of the 
videos. This would enable anyone to produce versions with different UI 
languages by simply running the Python UI test and recording the screen. 
The only thing to solve would be the representation of the mouse pointer.


Ilmari

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] English videos in help files

2018-04-27 Thread Ilmari Lauhakangas 

toki kirjoitti 26.04.2018 klo 23:13:

On 04/26/2018 07:12 AM, Martin Srebotnjak wrote:


I'm only sad that we are not part of the discussion when we are highly 
concerned.

That probably has as much to do with where and when the discussions are held, 
as anything else.

you miss the point. Changing help (documentation project) and UI (UX project) 
is not a self-enclosed thing.


One of the vices of agile development is that documentation is
considered to be, at best, unnecessary. This applies for both developer
documentation, and user documentation.

Whilst the theory is that Agile Development has the following for End
User Documentation Creation:

*  using a topic-oriented approach such as the Darwin Information Typing
Architecture (DITA) or Information MappingTM
*  leveraging user stories to produce task-oriented documentation
*  applying minimalist principles
*  participating as an active team member

the reality is that the usual Agile Development creed on end user
documentation is _They Ain't Gonna Read It So Why Bother Writing It_.

...
> TDF practices agile development, in which nothing is specified until
after delivery.

LibreOffice development does not follow the agile methodology. All this 
talk about storyboards etc. is completely untrue.


There is an l10n representative present in all Engineering Steering 
Committee calls. In this case it seems like a minor misunderstanding 
regarding the videos: 
https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice/2018-April/080079.html 
"didn’t realize embedded rather than a link"


Marina's call to stop the legal speculation is highly appreciated (it 
was really starting to get on my nerves even as a bystander). The legal 
concerns would in any case target LibreOffice *deployments* and not TDF 
itself. Naturally TDF and volunteers are willing to cooperate with 
private and public sector entities having concerns.


If and when videos are included, I assume they are produced from a 
written script. Providing this script would be the resource any 
deployments can use to solve their respective translation & a11y 
conformance issues. Even better would be timed subtitle files (more work).


Ilmari

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Re: [The Document Foundation - Pootle server] Unit #149620465 (da/libo_help)

2018-04-27 Thread Sophia Schröder 

Meh, my English today... ;-) I am working on it now. ;-)


Am 27.04.2018 um 12:29 schrieb Sophia Schröder:

Thank you for report. I'll overtake it. :-)


Am 27.04.2018 um 11:47 schrieb Sophie:

Hi Steen,

Thanks for your feedback, I'm forwarding your mail to the documentation
project.
Cheers
Sophie
Le 27/04/2018 à 00:28, hostmas...@documentfoundation.org a écrit :

Username: anonymous user
Current URL:
IP address:
User-Agent:

Unit: 
https://translations.documentfoundation.org/da/libo_help/translate/swriter/01.po#unit=149620465


Source: ahelp hid=.Select the slant angle for 
the watermark. A positive angle displays tha watermark from bottom 
to top. A negative value displays the watermark text from top to 
bottom./ahelp


Current translation:

Your question or comment:

Typo:  ... displays tha watermark ...  should be  ...displays the 
watermark








--
Regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Sophia Schröder
---
German Language Team
LibreOffice.org
IRC: SophiaS


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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Re: [The Document Foundation - Pootle server] Unit #149620465 (da/libo_help)

2018-04-27 Thread Sophia Schröder 

Thank you for report. I'll overtake it. :-)


Am 27.04.2018 um 11:47 schrieb Sophie:

Hi Steen,

Thanks for your feedback, I'm forwarding your mail to the documentation
project.
Cheers
Sophie
Le 27/04/2018 à 00:28, hostmas...@documentfoundation.org a écrit :

Username: anonymous user
Current URL:
IP address:
User-Agent:

Unit: 
https://translations.documentfoundation.org/da/libo_help/translate/swriter/01.po#unit=149620465

Source: ahelp hid=.Select the slant angle for the watermark. A 
positive angle displays tha watermark from bottom to top. A negative value displays the watermark text 
from top to bottom./ahelp

Current translation:

Your question or comment:

Typo:  ... displays tha watermark ...  should be  ...displays the watermark





--
Regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Sophia Schröder
---
German Language Team
LibreOffice.org
IRC: SophiaS


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: [The Document Foundation - Pootle server] Unit #145045203 (de/libo60_help)

2018-04-27 Thread Sophie 
Hi Sophia,

Thanks for your feedback, I'm forwarding your mail to the documentation
project.
Cheers
Sophie
Le 27/04/2018 à 10:20, hostmas...@documentfoundation.org a écrit :
> Username: anonymous user
> Current URL: 
> IP address: 
> User-Agent: 
> 
> Unit: 
> https://translations.documentfoundation.org/de/libo60_help/translate/shared/optionen.po#unit=145045203
> 
> Source: ahelp hid=.High print quality corresponds to a 
> resolution of 300dpi. Normal print quality corresponds to a resolution of 
> 200dpi. /ahelp
> 
> Current translation: ahelp hid=.Hohe Druckqualität 
> entspricht einer Auflösung von 300 dpi. Normale Druckqualität entspricht 
> einer Auflösung von 200 dpi./ahelp
> 
> Your question or comment:
> 
> /me wonders if this is still the case...
> 


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[libreoffice-documentation] Re: [The Document Foundation - Pootle server] Unit #149620465 (da/libo_help)

2018-04-27 Thread Sophie 
Hi Steen,

Thanks for your feedback, I'm forwarding your mail to the documentation
project.
Cheers
Sophie
Le 27/04/2018 à 00:28, hostmas...@documentfoundation.org a écrit :
> Username: anonymous user
> Current URL: 
> IP address: 
> User-Agent: 
> 
> Unit: 
> https://translations.documentfoundation.org/da/libo_help/translate/swriter/01.po#unit=149620465
> 
> Source: ahelp hid=.Select the slant angle for the 
> watermark. A positive angle displays tha watermark from bottom to top. A 
> negative value displays the watermark text from top to bottom./ahelp
> 
> Current translation:
> 
> Your question or comment:
> 
> Typo:  ... displays tha watermark ...  should be  ...displays the watermark
> 


-- 
Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org
GSM: +33683901545
IRC: sophi
Release coordinator
The Document Foundation

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] English videos in help files

2018-04-27 Thread John Lucius 
This is a fascinating, awareness enriching discussion that will definitely
help the entire documentation team. The resolution of these issues will
make a big impact on the documentation process.


On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 1:43 AM, toki  wrote:

> On 04/26/2018 07:12 AM, Martin Srebotnjak wrote:
>
> >>> I'm only sad that we are not part of the discussion when we are highly
> concerned.
> >> That probably has as much to do with where and when the discussions are
> held, as anything else.
> > you miss the point. Changing help (documentation project) and UI (UX
> project) is not a self-enclosed thing.
>
> One of the vices of agile development is that documentation is
> considered to be, at best, unnecessary. This applies for both developer
> documentation, and user documentation.
>
> Whilst the theory is that Agile Development has the following for End
> User Documentation Creation:
>
> *  using a topic-oriented approach such as the Darwin Information Typing
> Architecture (DITA) or Information MappingTM
> *  leveraging user stories to produce task-oriented documentation
> *  applying minimalist principles
> *  participating as an active team member
>
> the reality is that the usual Agile Development creed on end user
> documentation is _They Ain't Gonna Read It So Why Bother Writing It_.
>
> >This is one of the biggest open source projects and changes in code (and
> UI and documentation) affect not only many community members participating
> in the project on different tasks, but millions of users.
>
> The other part of the equation, is that there were/are features and
> capabilities in LibO that virtually nobody other than the original
> developer knows exist. Features that never made their way into any
> user-documentation, and only got one line in a developer synopsis.
>
> By way of example, which version of Logo is embedded within LibO?
>
> Only slightly more esoteric is which version of R does LibO have hooks
> for? (Who needs VBA when you've got R?)
>
> Now wondering if the Flight Simulator game was removed from LibO.
>
> > So we do need to copy or thoroughly adapt some of the "corporate"
> workflow magic and make this process a road to success, not to chaos.
>
> Sun practiced waterfall development, in which specifications for
> everything were written out in advance.
>
> TDF practices agile development, in which nothing is specified until
> after delivery.
>
> The adoption of these models reflect what was considered to be "best
> practices" when the organization started developing the program.
>
> There are advantages and disadvantages to each of these models.
>
> >but there must be a workflow where such changes, when already thought
> through by its native team,
>
> The thinking through, as such, happens during/after construction, not
> before construction.
>
> This is why the _only_ way that l10n teams can get a hint of what will
> happen, is to have a designated l10n team member, whose sole function is
> to sit in on each and every call, and follow both the Bugzilla, and
> Commits list, and the use-case and user-story storyboards for each
> proposed function, capability, etc.
>
> I realize that that is literally a full time job.
>
> > with l10n teams (who are not just localizers, translators, but in most
> cases promoters of LO in their countries/languages/cultures and can offer a
> lot of advice what might not be good for their language/cultural
> environment/law requirements) - before they get introduced. So we need such
> a forum/discussion point in development process.
>
> +1
>
> > I often remember the OOo days where every upcoming bigger feature had a
> webpage (a kind of a wiki page in the Sun web subworld) made by the
> developers,
>
> That happened for both minor and major features.
> It is a side effect of the waterfall model of software development.
>
> If you roam around on the openoffice.org website, you can still find
> some/most of those web pages.
>
> >but all this iterative changing (that does lead to better and better
> results, no doubt about it) in the end hits the l10n teams and makes their
> members feel like Sisyphus.
>
> Sisyphus was lucky. He knew his fate.
>
> jonathon
>
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