Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Change our practice of linking back to NextCloud
Hello Olivier, Le 22/09/2020 à 20:58, Olivier Hallot a écrit : I'm open to do whatever it is necessary to make people get the documentation the easiest way. Actually we have several places to get the guides: A) The documentation website: https://documentation.libreoffice.org B) The wiki page https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Publications C) The extension site https://extensions.libreoffice.org/?Tags%5B%5D=53 D) Nextcloud folders when shared read-only in public. I'm sure that I wouldn't look for documentation in the extensions/templates pages. Best regards, -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Change our practice of linking back to NextCloud
HI Dave Em 22/09/2020 12:49, DaveB escreveu: > On 22/09/2020 15:55, Olivier Hallot wrote: >> Hi Dave >> >> Em 22/09/2020 09:51, DaveB escreveu: >>> Sorry folks, I am back here again with yet another proposal. >>> >>> It is starting to become our practice to link published guides on the >>> website and wiki back to the Published Folder on the Documentation >>> NextCloud instance. In *theory* this should not create any issues and is >>> an extremely easy and convenient (lazy) mechanism for us to use. >> >> Scattering files in several places increases work on file tracking, IMO. >> >>> >>> I am currently involved with the on-line training of two people, who >>> have been complaining that links I have given them to website and wiki >>> copies of the documentation don't allow them to DIRECTLY download the >>> required guides, without getting into a "jumping through hoops" >>> work-around to download the required material. I encountered this myself >>> when trying to offer Bernard John Poole some guidance on the mailing >>> list. Namely that clicking the link-back links opens the files in the >>> web browser and a browser right click "Save As" offers a weirdly >>> formatted copy of the NextCloud html file. >> >> Links to ODF files in stored in TDF Nextcloud triggers the LibreOffice >> Online module and opens LibreOffice Online inside the browser. That >> said, you cannot "save as" the file from the browser menu (it will save >> the URL content which is an html gibberish). You must choose the menu >> File - Download to be able to save the copy of the document in your >> computer with the bonus of selecting the file format. >> >> Links to PDF files will open the pdfviewer of NextCloud which just add a >> blue header in the page and has a Download button on the right. As far >> as I can see, the PDF file is rendered inside the browser. Likewise, do >> not use the browser "save as", but use the Download button instead. >> >>> >>> Even though the link-back mechanism is convenient for us, it really >>> doesn't take a great deal of work to upload the published material to >>> the wiki/website, but does make life much easier for our readers. >>> >>> So can we please end this method of linking back to the NextCloud instance. >> >> I beg to differ, not diminishing your remarks, but the links to >> NextCloud is also a display of the LibreOffice technology and a live >> example of the online features. >> >> Kind regards > > Hi Oliver, > > Agreed, it is "*nice*" to showcase LibreOffice technology, but that is > not what our readers who seek to obtain a copies of our documentation > are interested in. > > In principle I also oppose "Scattering files in several places", which > is in part why I proposed the simplification of the next cloud directory > structure. However, when we get fist hand negative feedback about > something we do purely for our own convenience, I think it's time review > what is best for our readers. Uploading copies of the documentation > files to the wiki/website has never been a problem or an issue in the > past and there is no clear reason, other than it is useful for our own > convenience, to change that now just because we can. > > If we continue this link-back method let us at least see if we can find > some way of informing our readers of the work-around steps to download > copies of our documentation and not some vague entry in a wiki page. > Currently, our links dump them at (to them) an unknown destination and > leaves them to work it out from there. I seriously doubt that our QA/UX > teams would congratulate us for adopting such a policy. > > Sorry to be a PITA, but I am pushing these things, because I see them as > being important for the benefit of our readers. That is not to say that > you don't share that same interest, but we hold different views about > how to serve those interests. > > Best Regards > Dave > No PITA at all. Your voice is important. I'm open to do whatever it is necessary to make people get the documentation the easiest way. Actually we have several places to get the guides: A) The documentation website: https://documentation.libreoffice.org B) The wiki page https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Publications C) The extension site https://extensions.libreoffice.org/?Tags%5B%5D=53 D) Nextcloud folders when shared read-only in public. There are also 2 personas for using our documentation 1) End users (wants the book in PDF or printed, and then Bye!) 2) Contributors/professionals/translators that want the above + source files. I' prefer to move this much needed debate to the Doc Meeting this Thursday (I hope all parties interested can attend), because each 1,2 will use a different A,B,C,D. Naturally each web service has advantages and drawbacks in maintenance and user experience. Kind regards -- Olivier Hallot LibreOffice Documentation Coordinator Rio de Janeiro - Brasil - Local Time: UTC-03:00 LibreOffice – free and open source office suite:
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Change our practice of linking back to NextCloud
On 22/09/2020 15:55, Olivier Hallot wrote: > Hi Dave > > Em 22/09/2020 09:51, DaveB escreveu: >> Sorry folks, I am back here again with yet another proposal. >> >> It is starting to become our practice to link published guides on the >> website and wiki back to the Published Folder on the Documentation >> NextCloud instance. In *theory* this should not create any issues and is >> an extremely easy and convenient (lazy) mechanism for us to use. > > Scattering files in several places increases work on file tracking, IMO. > >> >> I am currently involved with the on-line training of two people, who >> have been complaining that links I have given them to website and wiki >> copies of the documentation don't allow them to DIRECTLY download the >> required guides, without getting into a "jumping through hoops" >> work-around to download the required material. I encountered this myself >> when trying to offer Bernard John Poole some guidance on the mailing >> list. Namely that clicking the link-back links opens the files in the >> web browser and a browser right click "Save As" offers a weirdly >> formatted copy of the NextCloud html file. > > Links to ODF files in stored in TDF Nextcloud triggers the LibreOffice > Online module and opens LibreOffice Online inside the browser. That > said, you cannot "save as" the file from the browser menu (it will save > the URL content which is an html gibberish). You must choose the menu > File - Download to be able to save the copy of the document in your > computer with the bonus of selecting the file format. > > Links to PDF files will open the pdfviewer of NextCloud which just add a > blue header in the page and has a Download button on the right. As far > as I can see, the PDF file is rendered inside the browser. Likewise, do > not use the browser "save as", but use the Download button instead. > >> >> Even though the link-back mechanism is convenient for us, it really >> doesn't take a great deal of work to upload the published material to >> the wiki/website, but does make life much easier for our readers. >> >> So can we please end this method of linking back to the NextCloud instance. > > I beg to differ, not diminishing your remarks, but the links to > NextCloud is also a display of the LibreOffice technology and a live > example of the online features. > > Kind regards Hi Oliver, Agreed, it is "*nice*" to showcase LibreOffice technology, but that is not what our readers who seek to obtain a copies of our documentation are interested in. In principle I also oppose "Scattering files in several places", which is in part why I proposed the simplification of the next cloud directory structure. However, when we get fist hand negative feedback about something we do purely for our own convenience, I think it's time review what is best for our readers. Uploading copies of the documentation files to the wiki/website has never been a problem or an issue in the past and there is no clear reason, other than it is useful for our own convenience, to change that now just because we can. If we continue this link-back method let us at least see if we can find some way of informing our readers of the work-around steps to download copies of our documentation and not some vague entry in a wiki page. Currently, our links dump them at (to them) an unknown destination and leaves them to work it out from there. I seriously doubt that our QA/UX teams would congratulate us for adopting such a policy. Sorry to be a PITA, but I am pushing these things, because I see them as being important for the benefit of our readers. That is not to say that you don't share that same interest, but we hold different views about how to serve those interests. Best Regards Dave -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Change our practice of linking back to NextCloud
Hi Dave Em 22/09/2020 09:51, DaveB escreveu: > Sorry folks, I am back here again with yet another proposal. > > It is starting to become our practice to link published guides on the > website and wiki back to the Published Folder on the Documentation > NextCloud instance. In *theory* this should not create any issues and is > an extremely easy and convenient (lazy) mechanism for us to use. Scattering files in several places increases work on file tracking, IMO. > > I am currently involved with the on-line training of two people, who > have been complaining that links I have given them to website and wiki > copies of the documentation don't allow them to DIRECTLY download the > required guides, without getting into a "jumping through hoops" > work-around to download the required material. I encountered this myself > when trying to offer Bernard John Poole some guidance on the mailing > list. Namely that clicking the link-back links opens the files in the > web browser and a browser right click "Save As" offers a weirdly > formatted copy of the NextCloud html file. Links to ODF files in stored in TDF Nextcloud triggers the LibreOffice Online module and opens LibreOffice Online inside the browser. That said, you cannot "save as" the file from the browser menu (it will save the URL content which is an html gibberish). You must choose the menu File - Download to be able to save the copy of the document in your computer with the bonus of selecting the file format. Links to PDF files will open the pdfviewer of NextCloud which just add a blue header in the page and has a Download button on the right. As far as I can see, the PDF file is rendered inside the browser. Likewise, do not use the browser "save as", but use the Download button instead. > > Even though the link-back mechanism is convenient for us, it really > doesn't take a great deal of work to upload the published material to > the wiki/website, but does make life much easier for our readers. > > So can we please end this method of linking back to the NextCloud instance. I beg to differ, not diminishing your remarks, but the links to NextCloud is also a display of the LibreOffice technology and a live example of the online features. Kind regards -- Olivier Hallot LibreOffice Documentation Coordinator Rio de Janeiro - Brasil - Local Time: UTC-03:00 LibreOffice – free and open source office suite: https://www.libreoffice.org Respects your privacy, and gives you back control over your data http://tdf.io/joinus -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
[libreoffice-documentation] Change our practice of linking back to NextCloud
Sorry folks, I am back here again with yet another proposal. It is starting to become our practice to link published guides on the website and wiki back to the Published Folder on the Documentation NextCloud instance. In *theory* this should not create any issues and is an extremely easy and convenient (lazy) mechanism for us to use. I am currently involved with the on-line training of two people, who have been complaining that links I have given them to website and wiki copies of the documentation don't allow them to DIRECTLY download the required guides, without getting into a "jumping through hoops" work-around to download the required material. I encountered this myself when trying to offer Bernard John Poole some guidance on the mailing list. Namely that clicking the link-back links opens the files in the web browser and a browser right click "Save As" offers a weirdly formatted copy of the NextCloud html file. Even though the link-back mechanism is convenient for us, it really doesn't take a great deal of work to upload the published material to the wiki/website, but does make life much easier for our readers. So can we please end this method of linking back to the NextCloud instance. Best Regards Dave -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
