Thanks Nigel. Some very interesting reading.What I've distilled from that info
is that there are some things I'll definitely do, and some that will depend on
circumstances at the time.
I'll definitely be more vigilant in checking fuel system integrity in DIs and
pre boarding checks. The GFA requirement to operate the boost pump and checks
for leaks during each of these is important.I'll definitely be putting all of
the anchors out and getting down onto the nearest patch of ground as soon as
possible while switching everything off (may need three hands for that!). The
whole point of this is visualising and rehearsing the relevant emergency
actions and I intend to do a lot more of that myself and encourage our members
to do the same.
As far as the canopy jettison is concerned, as we don't use shutes in our H36,
and even with one jumping would be a last resort due the results in your
summaries, I'll be aiming to dump the canopy when finally on the ground roll.
As an aside Nigel, I think you may be confusing the Burketown incident with
another. Pretty sure that the excessive fuel usage resulted from the carby jets
being drilled beyond specs but then a fuel leak was evident after repairs?
Another thought has come from the Ximango fire you mentioned (where the
aircraft fortunately landed in a lake!) and the fire dmaged one side moer than
the other. If a pilot has the presence of mind to detect a fire/smoke/heat on
one side of the engine bay or the other, It might pay to initiate the sideslip
towards the opposite side to direct all of that away from the aircraft, at
least in the early stages?
Best Regards
Laurie
On Wednesday, 20 February 2019, 12:11:35 am AEDT, Nigel Baker
<ni...@limbachaustralia.com> wrote:
Laurie and all.
We had an commanded jettison of the canopy on a G109 in S.A. some years ago. I
was not at all happy with the explanation from the 2 level 3 instructors on
board and still don’t believe they should be L3’s as they continued to deliver
more amazing calamities as time went by.
Anyhow aside from that. They reported that apart from the high rate of descent
the aircraft behaved normally. They circled and recorded the GPS position
enabling recovery of the remains before tracking direct to the nearest strip
from which the aircraft was trailered home with the recovered remains of the
canopy.
The S10VT fatal at Campden involving fire had the canopy jettisoned we believe
for the reason you suggest however the end result was a departure from
controlled flight. Stemme AG advised that they believed the controllability of
the aircraft after canopy release was extremely poor to not available.
There are 2 other cases of an S10VT and an very early S10 catching fire
overseas and the crew escaping. In both cases they went for the highest decent
rate they could achieve and side slipped to improve ventilation. The canopy was
retained in both cases. The latest one was late last year and I attach an image
taken by one of the pilots seconds after departing the cockpit. This was in
Germany. They had NO time to recover any items of value but his phone was in
his pocket hence the pics. His description from the time of realizing they were
in trouble till landing and watching it destroyed on the runway was alarming at
the speed things developed.
The Zhimango pilot opened but did not jettison the canopy. The aircraft
remained controllable and he could breath. Side slipping the aircraft resulting
in the unoccupied seat and headset suffering serious heat damage from which he
was spared.
I have seen a Standard Jantar lose a canopy on takeoff.
It struck the fin and he landed straight ahead no problems.
I watched the most unlucky stupidest pilot I ever met land in a paddock after
an aerotow upset on retrieve from a paddock. It was his Cirrus on its first
flight back from its last repair under insurance. He was thirsty and decided to
have a drink. Got way out of station.
He went for the release in a panic and jettisoned the canopy instead while the
tug pilot dumped him. He did a straight in approach to the paddock in front of
him and went under the SWER line with minimal clearance. I know this as I was
behind and about 500 feet above him on final glide calling over the radio to
alert him to the line. He later said he had it picked but he didn’t.
Handling was normal. His 4th accident and last was 4 months later in a Waikerie
Gliding Club Twin Astir. Total right off. The 4th claim in his name and our
insurers told us he was excluded from all club policies. Seems they had had a
enough after the first 3 on his aircraft. After that the CFI believed me when I
said I had serious concerns about his flying. WAY TOO LATE.
The IS28M2 touring motor glider (worst aircraft I have ever flown) which is a
side by side 2 seater can be flown with the sliding canopy open.
All this I suppose tells us it depends on the individual aircraft.
Our H36 tail feathers get slightly excited occasionally when I operate the
cabin vent and isn’t the only one of that variant to do it. I don’t think I
would like to try it canopy off.
In any event any canopy has the ability to remove a tail plane if it ends up
hitting it at speed. It depends on how cleanly it departs.
I work on the principle of being extremely diligent to mitigate the chance of a
fire. I can think of 3 right offs and one of them fatal in the last 6 years
from fires where that principle was left wanting.
Richard and I spent time at every DI for weeks trying to track down a fuel
smell. We ultimately found it by due diligence and it was a widow maker waiting
to happen.
Put the wind up us but as we were diligent we found an fixed the problem.
Others surprisingly accept such things and have even said to bystanders that a
bit of a fuel leak it is normal. That fatefully in a recent instance resulted
in the pilots death from inflight fire the day after he said it.
There is nothing normal about a fuel leak other than doing a fuel drain. Too
often I have encountered aircraft with leaks and the pilots are oblivious to
the risks.
The best one was when I discovered a 1litre a minute leak in a G109 just 2
weeks out of annual. I was doing an engine run after a carby change with the
cowls off and a fire extinguisher in my hand. The owner pilot ignored the
briefing and watched his instruments as I was indicting cut power. We got there
after a very long 25 seconds. The fuel was running directly onto the exhaust.
Only when the boost pump was running though. Later the pilot commented that
that explained why his passenger had reported the smell of fuel every time they
taxied and also partly why he was burning 22lits and hour (Leaking during
takeoff/climb and landing with the boost pump running).
To this day he doesn’t admit it was overly serious.
He flew from Byron Bay to Burketown in that state with 5 stops. He then flew
another 5 mornings before I found the leak.
The guy who signed off the aircraft annual is also very much to blame.
Cheers.
Nige.
From: dog@lists.riverland.net.au <dog@lists.riverland.net.au>
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2019 5:59 PM
To: dog@lists.riverland.net.au; dog@lists.riverland.net.au
Subject: RE: [DOG mailing list] In Flight Emergency Actions Part 2 Fire!
Good question Kurt and one we would have all thought about at some time.
Would depend on a number of variables. Given the width of the Dimona canopy the
probability of wiping out the tailplane on jettising would have to be high let
alone balance issues Andrew mentioned.
Windspeed in the cockpit wouldn't help either. I remember the blast in the
cockpit when flying the Blanik without the canopy all those years ago (sorry
Andrew!).
So I think I'd only do so if I was suffocating and/or burning, not while still
able.
Nigel, Andrew or anyone else aware of any other in flight jettison events?
I was going to suggest throwing the canopy as soon as you can free your hands
to do so on the landing roll but on second thoughts you would then be more
greatly exposed to the effects of the fire while still moving.
Would a severe ground loop on touch down assist directing heat and smoke away
from the cockpit and drastically shorten the landing roll?
Laurie
Sent from Yahoo7 Mail on Android
On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 at 10:20 am, Andrew Simpson via dog
<dog@lists.riverland.net.au> wrote:
Hi Kurt,
I performed the investigation on the latest fire in Australia, it’s a double
edged sword the jettisoning of the canopy can have the effect of fanning the
existing fire and making the situation worse. In the Ximango event the partial
deployment of the canopy allowed the flames to lick up the fuselage side and
affect the cockpit (Side slipping played an important part in the pilot walking
away in this event).
The canopy jettison has the potential to affect the cg and potential damage to
structure if not a clean departure from the aircraft.
I know of a few TMG pilots that have been involved in the 3 fire events in
Australia that are seriously considering using parachutes and jumping in the
case of a fire event.
On a side note the GFA is working on an AD to apply Firefree 88 to the cowls
and engine bay on motor gliders with repeat inspections at each form 2.
Background is to provide more time for the pilot to get the aircraft on the
ground.
Regards
Andrew
From: dog@lists.riverland.net.au [mailto:dog@lists.riverland.net.au] On Behalf
Of Kurt Redinbaugh
Sent: Wednesday, 13 February 2019 9:36 AM
To: dog@lists.riverland.net.au; Laurie Hoffman <lozhoff...@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [DOG mailing list] In Flight Emergency Actions Part 2 Fire!
Any thought of the benefit or not of blowing the canopy while in flight to mqke
egress easier once on the ground?
Kurt Redinbaugh
H-36 S/N 3660
On Tue, Feb 12, 2019 at 1:55 PM Laurie Hoffman via dog
<dog@lists.riverland.net.au> wrote:
In flight fire presents one of the worst scenarios for any pilot, especially
for one flying a resin soaked, plastic, fuel and oil carrying airframe.
The H36 AFM distinguishes between in flight engine and electrical fires.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Hoffmann
3
H 36 DIMONA
Emergency Procedures
3.10 Engine fire during flight:
Throttle - full power
Fuel Valve - OFF
Cabin Heat - Push ,
Cabin air - Pull
Ignition - OFF when engine Stops
Slipping the aircraft can keep smoke and flames from the cockpit
Execute normal landing from a glide
3. 11 Electrical Fire during flight:
Main Switch - OFF
Circuit breakers - PULL OFF
The engine will continue to run. Land as soon as practical or at the next
airfield
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
With the loss of a well known and highly experienced glider pilot in his MG due
in flight fire last year, this topic is fresh in the minds of most Aussie
glider pilots.
Nigel made the point that often a pilot may be unable to distinguish between
these types of fires during flight. Depending on the location and nature of the
smoke source within the cockpit that may well point to an electrical fire but
does it really matter which type of fire you have to contend with?
The reality is that if it continues to burn (and it will) one type is no less
hotter or catastrophic than the other although an electrical fire may take a
little longer but be more toxic!
As with the previous section on engine failure during early climb out, the AFM
contains some sound advice and Nigel and I would argue, some less sound advice.
in my opinion it badly understates the urgency to get the aircraft down onto
the ground asap.
Recommendations:
1. In the event of ANY fire, carry out ALL of the AFM actions listed for BOTH
Engine and Electrical fires.
2. WHILE doing the above, apply the greatest side slip that you can manage and
pull full spoilers as soon as your left hand is free from turning off and
pulling things. (The side slipping is for the reasons provided in the AFM and
also to redirect heat away from the canopy and cockpit)
3. Fly your Dimona through a wide spiraling descent so that you can survey the
best landing areas in your immediate vicinity on each turn and plan for a rapid
arrival at one.
4. Forget "Execute normal landing from a glide" just get the bloody thing down
so that you can egress and move well away upwind, while it burns.
My Comments and as usual, appreciate your thoughts and feedback:
1 & 2. I plan to sit in the cockpit before startup on occasions, close my eyes
and visualise a fire. No time for finding and reading a checklist with the H36.
I'll just rehearse shutting everything off while entering a rapid descent using
side slipping and full spoilers.
2. Its well worth staying current in side slipping. Caution required near the
ground close to roundout but practiced at height and then applied by joining a
high/steeper final occasionally provides ample opportunity.
3. Landing engine off and actually using your touring motor glider as a glider
now and again builds real confidence in putting your aircraft down at other
than a licenced airport. Aussie pilots flying sailplanes are required to
undergo an annual 'outlanding' check and this is an equally good idea for MG
pilots.
I have a very good Power Point on Outlanding developed by the GFA Coaching
dept if anyone is interested.
4. Be mindful of the toxicity of burning/smoldering plastics during descent
and try to lean towards any fresh air inlet for breathing in.
Any other suggestions?
Best Regards
Laurie
Sydney Australia
************** PLEASE CONSIDER OUR ENVIRONMENT BEFORE PRINTING *************
******************* Confidentiality and Privilege Notice *******************
This e-mail is intended only to be read or used by the addressee. It is
confidential and may contain legally privileged information. If you are not the
addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message
to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone, and you
should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply e-mail.
Confidentiality and legal privilege are not waived or lost by reason of
mistaken delivery to you.
Qantas Airways Limited
ABN 16 009 661 901
Visit Qantas online at http://qantas.com
****************************************************************************
---------------------------------------------------------------------
You are subscribed to the Dimona Owners Group mailing list.
To unsubscribe, send email to: dog-unsubscr...@lists.riverland.net.au
