Re: [Dorset] IMAP instead of POP3 in KMail

2016-06-19 Thread Patrick Wigmore
On Sunday 12 Jun 2016, at 12:04:45, Terry Coles wrote:
> ...In particular, I like to archive messages into sub-folders 
and
> then get the filters to automatically sort incoming messages
> into the appropriate folders automatically.
> ...
> If I changed from POP3 to IMAP ... will I still be able to do
> all these things...?

I have certainly used KMail's filters successfully to sort 
incoming messages into folders in IMAP accounts. I am not 
currently using that feature, but, unless it's been broken in 
recent versions, I would expect it to work.

The user interface for defining a filter does not discriminate 
against IMAP folders.

Currently, server-side filters meet my needs.

I like to use the "Enable disconnected mode" setting for my IMAP 
accounts in KMail, so that I don't need a working network 
connection in order to work with previously-received emails.

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Re: [Dorset] IMAP instead of POP3 in KMail

2016-06-14 Thread tda

Hi Terry

On 13/06/16 16:32, Terry Coles wrote:

On Monday, 13 June 2016 14:40:16 BST t...@ls83.eclipse.co.uk wrote:

Yes. IMAP is a proper client/server protocol. Your folder structure is
all on the server. Your drafts and sent folders are (if you wish, and no
reason not to) on the server. So you can flit from device to device and
everything is there in one place. e.g. you can work on a draft, continue
working on it from another device.


Sounds good.  One final question before I try it out.  I currently have
several thousand messages in my local folders and sub-folders in KMail.
Presumably IMAP doesn't work in reverse, so I will have to recreate that
folder structure at the server.  So I should probably archive them into a
separate local folder before I make the change?



In Thunderbird you can just drag your local folders to your IMAP 
top-level folder (always called Inbox) - this copies (rather than moves) 
them. I'd assume you can do the same in Kmail. If you do the folder copy 
in Kmail first you would avoid needing to export local folders out of 
Kmail and into TB. Obviously make sure you've got backups first.


Cheers

Tim


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Re: [Dorset] IMAP instead of POP3 in KMail

2016-06-13 Thread Keith Edmunds
On Mon, 13 Jun 2016 16:32:07 +0100, d-...@hadrian-way.co.uk said:

> Presumably IMAP doesn't work in reverse

There are IMAP copy utilities around. In short, you could upload all your
local mail to remote IMAP folders, but it would take a bit of work.

Unlike others, I abhor Thunderbird - but the beauty of using IMAP is that
it doesn't matter what your tastes are in MUAs. So long as you can find
one you like, you're fine.
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Re: [Dorset] IMAP instead of POP3 in KMail

2016-06-13 Thread Terry Coles
On Monday, 13 June 2016 14:40:16 BST t...@ls83.eclipse.co.uk wrote:
> > OK.  I think I've got that.  Is the end result any different from using
> > POP3 and ticking 'Leave the messages on the server'?
> 
> Yes. IMAP is a proper client/server protocol. Your folder structure is
> all on the server. Your drafts and sent folders are (if you wish, and no
> reason not to) on the server. So you can flit from device to device and
> everything is there in one place. e.g. you can work on a draft, continue
> working on it from another device.

Sounds good.  One final question before I try it out.  I currently have 
several thousand messages in my local folders and sub-folders in KMail.  
Presumably IMAP doesn't work in reverse, so I will have to recreate that 
folder structure at the server.  So I should probably archive them into a 
separate local folder before I make the change?
 
> If running your own mail server, add in a Caldav/Carddav server like
> Davical and your calendar and address book are also on the server and
> accessible from any of your devices. Lightning and SOGO connector
> add-ins for Thunderbird give client access to these.

I have no desire to do that, so I'll let One and One deal with it.

-- 

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Re: [Dorset] IMAP instead of POP3 in KMail

2016-06-13 Thread tda

Hi Terry

On 13/06/16 10:26, Terry Coles wrote:

Basically, I have three mailboxes (one for commercial comms, one for personal
(family, friends, etc) and one for the DLUG (so I could respond to the list
from Hotel rooms using only webmail, without the list server barfing at the
address I was using).

Those three mailboxes service around 100 aliases (simply put; one for each
recipient).  That way, if I get a surfeit of SPAM, I can kill the alias
instead of the mailbox.  This has worked well for years.

The downside is that this takes a bit of management.  KMail helps because it
supports mailing lists very seamlessly and if I reply to an incoming message
the Reply To address will be the alias that the sender used not the mailbox
address, that the account uses.  I couldn't get Thunderbird or Evolution to do
those things when I tried them.


Just tried sending myself emails to two different aliases. Hitting reply 
uses the alias I sent to, so unless I'm missing something that seems OK.



Again, as Keith said, with IMAP all your messages stay on the mail
server and are accessible from any of the devices you are using. In the
typical case this will be your ISP IMAP server.


OK.  I think I've got that.  Is the end result any different from using POP3
and ticking 'Leave the messages on the server'?


Yes. IMAP is a proper client/server protocol. Your folder structure is 
all on the server. Your drafts and sent folders are (if you wish, and no 
reason not to) on the server. So you can flit from device to device and 
everything is there in one place. e.g. you can work on a draft, continue 
working on it from another device.


If running your own mail server, add in a Caldav/Carddav server like 
Davical and your calendar and address book are also on the server and 
accessible from any of your devices. Lightning and SOGO connector 
add-ins for Thunderbird give client access to these.


Cheers


Tim



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Re: [Dorset] IMAP instead of POP3 in KMail

2016-06-13 Thread tda

Hi Peter

On 13/06/16 10:35, Peter Merchant wrote:

Like Tim, I like Thunderbird. I use it with the lightning add-on to my
Google calendar. It sorts incoming mail to the appropriate folder. It
manages three email accounts, all set up as Pop3, with the settings to
delete mail from the server when read. this aspect doesn't work too
well, but I blame the Netscape/yahoo/hotmail servers as occasionally it
picks up mail for a second time. The one thing that I miss in
Thunderbird is  putting emails into draft so that I can review them
later before sending. It is not as easy as in my other mail programs.


File, Save (or simply Ctrl-s).



 From this  discussion I guess the one thing that would be nice to do
would be to filter outgoing mail into folders., But as all the DLUG
stuff comes back anyway.

Procmail + formail. But Thunderbird may way be able to do this - set up 
a filter on your Sent folder.



I occasionally read emails  from these accounts on-line, but they then
get picked up by T-bird when I fire it up.

If Pop3 is obsolete(?) and IMAP is the current thing, can I reconfigure
T-bird to IMAP and still delete emails once read?



Yes, by default Delete sends to Trash folder, then Unpunge from trash 
either manually or on exit. All these are tweakable.


Cheers

Tim



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Re: [Dorset] IMAP instead of POP3 in KMail

2016-06-13 Thread Peter Merchant

On 13/06/16 10:05, t...@ls83.eclipse.co.uk wrote:

Hi Terry

On 12/06/16 12:04, Terry Coles wrote:

Hi,

Sometimes I wonder why I stick with KMail!  This morning I made a 
minor change
to the settings of the three mail accounts that I use and KMail 
proceeded to

throw up dozens of errors when I closed the Settings dialog.



As Keith said, try something else. I've found Thunderbird to be 
grief-free for many years.




(Actually, I do know why I like KMail; its management of Identities, 
filtering

and other features are better than all of the others I've tried.  In
particular, I like to archive messages into sub-folders and then get the
filters to automatically sort incoming messages into the appropriate 
folders

automatically.)



Not sure exactly what identities management features you're after, but 
Thunderbird has all that. As regards mail sorting, I've always used 
Procmail. Really long in the tooth but very powerful and completely 
MUA-agnostic. In addition to sorting incoming mail, I have a cronjob 
which sorts all my sent messages into the relevant folders every night.



My question therefore is this.  If I changed from POP3 to IMAP, (to 
ensure

that I can find the messages again in the future using any tool if this
happens again) will I still be able to do all these things, bearing 
in mind

that the messages will be retained on the server instead of locally?



Again, as Keith said, with IMAP all your messages stay on the mail 
server and are accessible from any of the devices you are using. In 
the typical case this will be your ISP IMAP server.


If your ISP mailbox size limits are too restrictive or you don't trust 
your ISP to not lose old messages, you can set up your own IMAP 
server. Then you can use POP3 to pull messages down from the ISP onto 
your own server using something like fetchmail. But getting that all 
set up does require a fair bit of sys admin.


Cheers

Tim




Like Tim, I like Thunderbird. I use it with the lightning add-on to my 
Google calendar. It sorts incoming mail to the appropriate folder. It 
manages three email accounts, all set up as Pop3, with the settings to 
delete mail from the server when read. this aspect doesn't work too 
well, but I blame the Netscape/yahoo/hotmail servers as occasionally it 
picks up mail for a second time. The one thing that I miss in 
Thunderbird is  putting emails into draft so that I can review them 
later before sending. It is not as easy as in my other mail programs.


From this  discussion I guess the one thing that would be nice to do 
would be to filter outgoing mail into folders., But as all the DLUG 
stuff comes back anyway.


I occasionally read emails  from these accounts on-line, but they then 
get picked up by T-bird when I fire it up.


If Pop3 is obsolete(?) and IMAP is the current thing, can I reconfigure 
T-bird to IMAP and still delete emails once read?


Peter M.

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Re: [Dorset] IMAP instead of POP3 in KMail

2016-06-13 Thread Terry Coles
On Monday, 13 June 2016 10:05:02 BST t...@ls83.eclipse.co.uk wrote:
> On 12/06/16 12:04, Terry Coles wrote:
> > Sometimes I wonder why I stick with KMail!  This morning I made a minor
> > change to the settings of the three mail accounts that I use and KMail
> > proceeded to throw up dozens of errors when I closed the Settings dialog.
> 
> As Keith said, try something else. I've found Thunderbird to be
> grief-free for many years.

Well.  It has been a while since I tried Thunderbird (I also tried Evolution) 
and went back to KMail because I found its features to be superior.

> Not sure exactly what identities management features you're after, but
> Thunderbird has all that. As regards mail sorting, I've always used
> Procmail. Really long in the tooth but very powerful and completely
> MUA-agnostic. In addition to sorting incoming mail, I have a cronjob
> which sorts all my sent messages into the relevant folders every night.

Basically, I have three mailboxes (one for commercial comms, one for personal  
(family, friends, etc) and one for the DLUG (so I could respond to the list 
from Hotel rooms using only webmail, without the list server barfing at the 
address I was using).

Those three mailboxes service around 100 aliases (simply put; one for each 
recipient).  That way, if I get a surfeit of SPAM, I can kill the alias 
instead of the mailbox.  This has worked well for years.

The downside is that this takes a bit of management.  KMail helps because it 
supports mailing lists very seamlessly and if I reply to an incoming message 
the Reply To address will be the alias that the sender used not the mailbox 
address, that the account uses.  I couldn't get Thunderbird or Evolution to do 
those things when I tried them.

> Again, as Keith said, with IMAP all your messages stay on the mail
> server and are accessible from any of the devices you are using. In the
> typical case this will be your ISP IMAP server.

OK.  I think I've got that.  Is the end result any different from using POP3 
and ticking 'Leave the messages on the server'?

> If your ISP mailbox size limits are too restrictive or you don't trust
> your ISP to not lose old messages, you can set up your own IMAP server.
> Then you can use POP3 to pull messages down from the ISP onto your own
> server using something like fetchmail. But getting that all set up does
> require a fair bit of sys admin.

I have a pretty big mailbox; I own the domain and use a SOHO product.

-- 

Terry Coles



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Re: [Dorset] IMAP instead of POP3 in KMail

2016-06-13 Thread tda

Hi Terry

On 12/06/16 12:04, Terry Coles wrote:

Hi,

Sometimes I wonder why I stick with KMail!  This morning I made a minor change
to the settings of the three mail accounts that I use and KMail proceeded to
throw up dozens of errors when I closed the Settings dialog.



As Keith said, try something else. I've found Thunderbird to be 
grief-free for many years.




(Actually, I do know why I like KMail; its management of Identities, filtering
and other features are better than all of the others I've tried.  In
particular, I like to archive messages into sub-folders and then get the
filters to automatically sort incoming messages into the appropriate folders
automatically.)



Not sure exactly what identities management features you're after, but 
Thunderbird has all that. As regards mail sorting, I've always used 
Procmail. Really long in the tooth but very powerful and completely 
MUA-agnostic. In addition to sorting incoming mail, I have a cronjob 
which sorts all my sent messages into the relevant folders every night.




My question therefore is this.  If I changed from POP3 to IMAP, (to ensure
that I can find the messages again in the future using any tool if this
happens again) will I still be able to do all these things, bearing in mind
that the messages will be retained on the server instead of locally?



Again, as Keith said, with IMAP all your messages stay on the mail 
server and are accessible from any of the devices you are using. In the 
typical case this will be your ISP IMAP server.


If your ISP mailbox size limits are too restrictive or you don't trust 
your ISP to not lose old messages, you can set up your own IMAP server. 
Then you can use POP3 to pull messages down from the ISP onto your own 
server using something like fetchmail. But getting that all set up does 
require a fair bit of sys admin.


Cheers

Tim




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Re: [Dorset] IMAP instead of POP3 in KMail

2016-06-12 Thread Keith Edmunds
On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 12:04:44 +0100, d-...@hadrian-way.co.uk said:

> Sometimes I wonder why I stick with KMail!

So change...

> My question therefore is this.  If I changed from POP3 to IMAP, (to
> ensure that I can find the messages again in the future using any tool
> if this happens again) will I still be able to do all these things,
> bearing in mind that the messages will be retained on the server instead
> of locally?

I can't say whether KMail would let you do those things (although I can't
see why it wouldn't). Certainly those things are possible. POP3 and IMAP
are ways of accessing mail only; they don't define how it is stored or
manipulated. You really, really don't want to be using POP3 today. By
default, that downloads your mail to the local system, making it much
harder to access from other devices. It also makes it much harder to
change Mail User Agents. If you set up IMAP, you can try lots of different
MUAs, and change the one you use every third Wednesday if that floats your
boat.
-- 
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than Americans do - you know, like healthcare, education and gun
control" - David Letterman


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[Dorset] IMAP instead of POP3 in KMail

2016-06-12 Thread Terry Coles
Hi,

Sometimes I wonder why I stick with KMail!  This morning I made a minor change 
to the settings of the three mail accounts that I use and KMail proceeded to 
throw up dozens of errors when I closed the Settings dialog.

When the flak had died down, I found that none of my saved messages remained; 
not in the Inbox and or any of the standard KMail folders or in my archived 
sub-folders.  I been able to retrieve *most* of the messages and the folder 
structure by re-importing them into the tool, but for some reason I seem to 
have lost a fair proportion of them.

Also, it took me ages to work out where my messages were stored and I suspect 
that this is because the KDE developers changed it all (again) when Plasma 5 
came out.

(Actually, I do know why I like KMail; its management of Identities, filtering 
and other features are better than all of the others I've tried.  In 
particular, I like to archive messages into sub-folders and then get the 
filters to automatically sort incoming messages into the appropriate folders 
automatically.)

My question therefore is this.  If I changed from POP3 to IMAP, (to ensure 
that I can find the messages again in the future using any tool if this 
happens again) will I still be able to do all these things, bearing in mind 
that the messages will be retained on the server instead of locally?

Anyone use KMail and does this sort of thing?

-- 

Terry Coles



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