Re: [Dorset] Next Meeting - COVID-19 Situation

2020-04-06 Thread Terry Coles
On Monday, 6 April 2020 16:37:55 BST Tim Waugh wrote:
> So we'll meet tomorrow, the same day as Terry sends out the reminder?

Yes.

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Re: [Dorset] Next Meeting - COVID-19 Situation

2020-04-06 Thread Tim Waugh
On Mon, 6 Apr 2020 at 11:25, Ralph Corderoy  wrote:

> This should be as simple as
>
> wget -q
> https://github.com/jitsi/jitsi-meet-electron/releases/download/v1.1.1/jitsi-meet-x86_64.AppImage
> chmod +x jitsi-meet-x86_64.AppImage
> ./jitsi-meet-x86_64.AppImage
>
> and then entering ‘dorset-lug’ as the meeting ID.
>

Works here.

So we'll meet tomorrow, the same day as Terry sends out the reminder?

Tim.
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Re: [Dorset] Next Meeting - COVID-19 Situation

2020-04-06 Thread Ralph Corderoy
Hi Terry,

> > Okay, Jitsi it is by the looks of it.
>
> Unless someone has any better ideas, I'll send out the reminder
> tomorrow as usual, but with the URL to the Jitsi resource and the
> time.

Please also mention that Chrome or Chromium probably fare better than
Firefox and that an alternative to installing one of those two is to
obtain it bundled especially for Jitsi from
https://github.com/jitsi/jitsi-meet-electron/releases

This should be as simple as

wget -q 
https://github.com/jitsi/jitsi-meet-electron/releases/download/v1.1.1/jitsi-meet-x86_64.AppImage
chmod +x jitsi-meet-x86_64.AppImage
./jitsi-meet-x86_64.AppImage

and then entering ‘dorset-lug’ as the meeting ID.

Perhaps someone can test that; I haven't.

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Re: [Dorset] Next Meeting - COVID-19 Situation

2020-04-01 Thread Hamish McIntyre-Bhatty
So, I made us a strawpoll. Anyone who's interested in doing this, please
vote :)

Link: https://strawpoll.com/c6kzy7xx

Hamish



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Re: [Dorset] Next Meeting - COVID-19 Situation

2020-03-30 Thread Ralph Corderoy
Hi Terry,

> > Don't bother scheduling a meeting.  For testing, just head to the
> > meeting room with the above URL whenever you like and see if anyone
> > else is there or shows up, or ping someone privately to help with a
> > test.
>
> https://meet.jit.si/dorset-lug
>
> OK.  Did you set that up on one of your servers (or a desktop) via the
> Chromium Extension?  If so how did you get the URL to include
> 'dorset-lug'.  Whenever I tried setting a meeting up, I ended up with
> a nonsensical URL.

I know nothing about the Chromium extension.  Without that, I think you
can go to https://meet.jit.si and just type in a meeting name, like
dorset-lug.

A password for entry can be set, but I don't think there's a way to list
current meetings so anything unusual suffices.

> > The scheduled time can appear on the mailing list.  :-)
>
> Is that Meeting perpetual or will you take it down shortly?

It springs into existence whenever one of us goes there.

Or when someone else picks dorset-lug as their meeting name even if
they're nothing to do with a Linux user group.

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Re: [Dorset] Next Meeting - COVID-19 Situation

2020-03-30 Thread Ralph Corderoy
Hi Tim H,

> Can I ask what we are trying to achieve here?

To muddle through to something to attempt one night with a chance of
success, I think.  :-)

> Is it to have a full blown video conferencing setup with multiple
> rooms for various conversation or just somewhere on the web where can
> all join up and chat on a monthly basis about what ever we want with
> various rooms for various chats?

I only see a difference if I interpret ‘chat’ in that to mean text or
audio; no video.  So like the text chat of IRC.

> Do we need to have the video aspect of it or is somewhere to chat more
> important?

I think the audio aspect is required.  We already have #dorset on IRC
but for those not use to it a busy IRC channel can be hard to follow
because P says something and replies come from Q, R, and S over time and
intermingled with those is P's extra information and T pipes up with a
related issue.  It's like multiple parties audibly talking but being
able to untangle the audio in your head to distinct conversations.

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Re: [Dorset] Next Meeting - COVID-19 Situation

2020-03-30 Thread Ralph Corderoy
Hi Patrick,

> On the other hand, I do not enjoy video conferences/calls in general.
> I think it must be something to do with not being able to tell who
> else might be listening in or watching, just out of frame

I don't have a camera, but I know some that do turn it off just because
they prefer the privacy.  Sharing a window is an alternative which
replaces the camera feed.  Then it's just who's listening, and I assume
everyone.  :-)

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Re: [Dorset] Next Meeting - COVID-19 Situation

2020-03-30 Thread Terry Coles
On Monday, 30 March 2020 18:00:07 BST Hamish McIntyre-Bhatty wrote:
> Free to help test this evening. When is the meet happening again?

Tomorrow week 2020-04-07.

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Re: [Dorset] Next Meeting - COVID-19 Situation

2020-03-30 Thread Hamish McIntyre-Bhatty
On 30/03/2020 17:58, Terry Coles wrote:
> On Monday, 30 March 2020 17:43:33 BST zir...@xendistar.co.uk wrote:
>> Can I ask what we are trying to achieve here? Is it to have a full blown
>> video conferencing setup with multiple rooms for various conversation or
>> just somewhere on the web where can all join up and chat on a monthly
>> basis about what ever we want with various rooms for various chats? We
>> seemed to have moved from sorting out how to handle the next meeting to
>> comparing video conferencing.
>>
>> Do we need to have the video aspect of it or is somewhere to chat more
>> important?
> Actually I thought the whole point was to find a conferencing facility that 
> could do video so we could actually mimic to some degree the face-to-face 
> environment at a pub/club meet.
>
> I'm not sure, but I think most comms tools provide video as well as audio 
> anyway.   
>
> If you accept that most of us want video then we should at least test the 
> options to see if they are suitable.
>
Free to help test this evening. When is the meet happening again?

Hamish



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Re: [Dorset] Next Meeting - COVID-19 Situation

2020-03-30 Thread Terry Coles
On Monday, 30 March 2020 17:43:33 BST zir...@xendistar.co.uk wrote:
> Can I ask what we are trying to achieve here? Is it to have a full blown
> video conferencing setup with multiple rooms for various conversation or
> just somewhere on the web where can all join up and chat on a monthly
> basis about what ever we want with various rooms for various chats? We
> seemed to have moved from sorting out how to handle the next meeting to
> comparing video conferencing.
> 
> Do we need to have the video aspect of it or is somewhere to chat more
> important?

Actually I thought the whole point was to find a conferencing facility that 
could do video so we could actually mimic to some degree the face-to-face 
environment at a pub/club meet.

I'm not sure, but I think most comms tools provide video as well as audio 
anyway.   

If you accept that most of us want video then we should at least test the 
options to see if they are suitable.

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Re: [Dorset] Next Meeting - COVID-19 Situation

2020-03-30 Thread zircon

On 2020-03-29 19:01, Hamish McIntyre-Bhatty wrote:

Are people interested in getting this going?

I could make us a poll to sort out how we're doing it. I like the idea
of subgroups - I think it'd be difficult otherwise cos we often have
subgroups having mini-conversations. That way we could also switch
between conversations at will.

I was also wondering if people might like to do these more often, 
seeing

as we're all pretty much stuck at home for the foreseeable future?

Hamish

On 17/03/2020 16:42, PeterMerchant wrote:



I was wondering about some kind of virtual meeting at the normal date
and time, given homes now have fast Internet connections, but it 
would

need some experimentation beforehand by someone who has time or
experience.  :-)


I wonder if we could set up a WhatsApp group, and whether it could
split off into sub-groups for different conversations. We use it at
home, but only one-to-one so I don't know if this is possible.  Think
I can link it from the small screen phone to my PC, but I haven't had
too much luck with that.

Also just saw a tweet for Zoom.us and my son says he has been using it
for his lectures as he is teaching from home at the moment. Once again
I know nothing about it.

Peter M.




Can I ask what we are trying to achieve here? Is it to have a full blown 
video conferencing setup with multiple rooms for various conversation or 
just somewhere on the web where can all join up and chat on a monthly 
basis about what ever we want with various rooms for various chats? We 
seemed to have moved from sorting out how to handle the next meeting to 
comparing video conferencing.


Do we need to have the video aspect of it or is somewhere to chat more 
important?


Confused

Tim H

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Re: [Dorset] Next Meeting - COVID-19 Situation

2020-03-30 Thread Patrick Wigmore
On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 14:11:44 +0100, Ralph Corderoy wrote:
> The open-source issue is why I mentioned Jitsi.

I like the sound of Jitsi for that reason.

On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 14:48:37 +0100, t...@ls83.eclipse.co.uk wrote:
> I would guess that quite a few of us have a tablet or smartphone
> with Skype installed too

I used to do that and the Skype account is probably still active, but 
I'd have to set the tablet back up again. It's stuck on an outdated 
version of iOS now, so it might not be compatible with the latest 
Skype app.

On the other hand, I do not enjoy video conferences/calls in general. 
I think it must be something to do with not being able to tell who 
else might be listening in or watching, just out of frame, and the 
general bombardment of visual information and inability to tell who's 
paying attention to who.

I'm reminded of time spent playing around with VLC Media Player back 
when I first had broadband internet access. A friend and I used to 
stream webcam video two ways for the novelty of it. You could surpass 
the video quality of MSN Messenger, which was my main point of 
reference. I don't think we talked about very much over the stream; it 
was really just for the novelty of being able to do it!

Of course, without a central host to handle duplication and 
distribution, that doesn't scale well to many-to-many conferences; 
people would quickly run out of upload bandwidth if they had to serve 
a unicast stream to every other participant directly. Plus there's no 
authentication or encryption, but maybe that makes it more pub-like. 
:)

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Re: [Dorset] Next Meeting - COVID-19 Situation

2020-03-30 Thread Terry Coles
On Monday, 30 March 2020 15:16:57 BST Ralph Corderoy wrote:
> Don't bother scheduling a meeting.  For testing, just head to the
> meeting room with the above URL whenever you like and see if anyone else
> is there or shows up, or ping someone privately to help with a test.

https://meet.jit.si/dorset-lug

OK.  Did you set that up on one of your servers (or a desktop) via the 
Chromium Extension?  If so how did you get the URL to include 'dorset-lug'.  
Whenever I tried setting a meeting up, I ended up with a nonsensical URL.

> The scheduled time can appear on the mailing list.  :-)

Is that Meeting perpetual or will you take it down shortly?

BTW.  I'm there if anyone has time to try it.  I have to do some routine 
maintenance on this PC (clean the CPU heat pipe fin bank and replace the heat 
sink compound), so I'll be going offline in about an hour.

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Re: [Dorset] Next Meeting - COVID-19 Situation

2020-03-30 Thread Ralph Corderoy
Hi Terry,

> > For example, https://meet.jit.si/dorset-lug
...
> > It's best within Chrome or Chrome-wrapped-up-in-Electron if the
> > Chrome browser isn't available.  Up to date Firefox's fair better
> > than older ones.
>
> I've just installed in Chromium.  The only problem is that the person
> that schedules the meeting appears to need to join it via Google
> Calendar or  Oulook 365 (spit).

Don't bother scheduling a meeting.  For testing, just head to the
meeting room with the above URL whenever you like and see if anyone else
is there or shows up, or ping someone privately to help with a test.

The scheduled time can appear on the mailing list.  :-)

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Re: [Dorset] Next Meeting - COVID-19 Situation

2020-03-30 Thread Terry Coles
On Monday, 30 March 2020 14:56:55 BST Terry Coles wrote:
> One problem with Skype is that I have no idea how a Conference is set up;
> does everyone simply call the convener?

Looking at my Skype client, it would seem that a Meeting can be convened in 
the same way as Jitsi and the participants don't need a Skype Account.  (They 
may be asked for an email address though.)

> Looking at jitsi, it would appear that the convener simply sets the Meeting
> up in Google Calendar and publishes the URL and time.  Everyone with a
> compatible browser and plugin then simply surfs to that URL at the
> appointed time.

Can anyone say if the browser and plugin is actually needed?  If not then I 
would suggest that Jitsi is preferable because it is self-hosted and Open 
Source.

If the browser and plugin is needed then I would still say that we still use 
Jitsi because of the above advantages.  The only downside would be if anyone 
is totally anti Google.

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Re: [Dorset] Next Meeting - COVID-19 Situation

2020-03-30 Thread Terry Coles
On Monday, 30 March 2020 14:48:37 BST t...@ls83.eclipse.co.uk wrote:
> I would guess that quite a few of us have a tablet or smartphone with Skype
> installed too - that's what I tend to use rather than running it under
> Linux as it's pretty universal and is just expected to work (which it does
> at least most of the time).

One problem with Skype is that I have no idea how a Conference is set up; does 
everyone simply call the convener?

Looking at jitsi, it would appear that the convener simply sets the Meeting up 
in Google Calendar and publishes the URL and time.  Everyone with a compatible 
browser and plugin then simply surfs to that URL at the appointed time.

Has anyone here actually used it?  Are there any issues?  Do you think it 
would work for us?  Barring problems it would appear to be the best compromise 
between availability, ease-of-use and functionality.

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Re: [Dorset] Next Meeting - COVID-19 Situation

2020-03-30 Thread tda

Hi Terry

On 30/03/2020 13:20, Terry Coles wrote:

The discussion about Zoom recently shows how iffy it is to get it going.  I've
used Skype on Linux to keep in touch with family for years, but some people
are reluctant to use it because of the fact that it isn't Open Source (neither
is Zoom).



I would guess that quite a few of us have a tablet or smartphone with Skype 
installed too - that's what I tend to use rather than running it under Linux as 
it's pretty universal and is just expected to work (which it does at least most 
of the time).

Cheers

Tim

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Re: [Dorset] Next Meeting - COVID-19 Situation

2020-03-30 Thread Terry Coles
On Monday, 30 March 2020 14:11:44 BST Ralph Corderoy wrote:
> True.  And it also needs volunteers to do bit of a trial in the days
> leading up to it so solutions can be communicated on the list in
> advance, e.g. turning off your video feed if upstream bandwidth is an
> issue.

Well.  I've listed the commercial offerings that I use and I now recall 
(prompted by looking up the email address I created for the account at the 
time), that I was using qtox and utox.  As I recall they both worked OKish on 
Ubuntu at the time.

However, a single-ended trial is not very meaningful.  I have successfully 
installed Zoom, but I've not used it so who knows?  Similarly can every one 
use a tox client?  (Apparently not see below)

> The open-source issue is why I mentioned Jitsi.
> https://www.mail-archive.com/dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk/msg09166.html
> For example, https://meet.jit.si/dorset-lug

I've not used jitsi, but I'm happy to try it.

> It's best within Chrome or Chrome-wrapped-up-in-Electron if the Chrome
> browser isn't available.  Up to date Firefox's fair better than older
> ones.

I've just installed in Chromium.  The only problem is that the person that 
schedules the meeting appears to need to join it via Google Calendar or  
Oulook 365 (spit).
 
> Perhaps the Tox protocol, qtox is one program.  It's doesn't do
> multi-party audio/video.

Ah I didn't know that.  Clearly not suitable.

> No, it's not the same, but it might be better in some ways, e.g. share a
> window, or new participants arrive.

There is that.

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Re: [Dorset] Next Meeting - COVID-19 Situation

2020-03-30 Thread Ralph Corderoy
Hi Terry,

> There are lots of different tools out there but without a poll 
> we won't know who can run what.

True.  And it also needs volunteers to do bit of a trial in the days
leading up to it so solutions can be communicated on the list in
advance, e.g. turning off your video feed if upstream bandwidth is an
issue.

> The discussion about Zoom recently shows how iffy it is to get it
> going.  I've used Skype on Linux to keep in touch with family for
> years, but some people are reluctant to use it because of the fact
> that it isn't Open Source (neither is Zoom).

The open-source issue is why I mentioned Jitsi.
https://www.mail-archive.com/dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk/msg09166.html
For example, https://meet.jit.si/dorset-lug

It's best within Chrome or Chrome-wrapped-up-in-Electron if the Chrome
browser isn't available.  Up to date Firefox's fair better than older
ones.

> I remember using one Open Source tool years ago, but since none of my
> family wanted to use it I neglected to re-install it when I last did a
> complete distro installation.  I can't even remember the name; I
> thought it began with 'T', but I can't see anything in the (K)Ubuntu
> repository under Communications that begins with T.

Perhaps the Tox protocol, qtox is one program.  It's doesn't do
multi-party audio/video.

> TBH, I'm not too bothered about an online Meeting, It's never the same
> as face-to-face and I don't have any beer ;-(

No, it's not the same, but it might be better in some ways, e.g. share a
window, or new participants arrive.

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Re: [Dorset] Next Meeting - COVID-19 Situation

2020-03-30 Thread Terry Coles
On Sunday, 29 March 2020 20:50:49 BST t...@ls83.eclipse.co.uk wrote:
> Count me in. Just need a decision on what to use.

That's the rub.  There are lots of different tools out there but without a poll 
we won't know who can run what.

The discussion about Zoom recently shows how iffy it is to get it going.  I've 
used Skype on Linux to keep in touch with family for years, but some people 
are reluctant to use it because of the fact that it isn't Open Source (neither 
is Zoom).

I remember using one Open Source tool years ago, but since none of my family 
wanted to use it I neglected to re-install it when I last did a complete 
distro installation.  I can't even remember the name; I thought it began with 
'T', but I can't see anything in the (K)Ubuntu repository under Communications 
that begins with T.

TBH, I'm not too bothered about an online Meeting, It's never the same as 
face-to-face and I don't have any beer ;-(  If something is set up, I'll come 
along to make up the numbers, but the main reason I like the monthly meetings 
is the environment and the chat content.

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Re: [Dorset] Next Meeting - COVID-19 Situation

2020-03-29 Thread tda

Hi Hamish

On 17/03/2020 22:35, Hamish McIntyre-Bhatty wrote:

I think a remote meetup would be nice. We could also use something like
Discord potentially. WhatsApp requires that they have your phone number
I believe - I won't be using that.


Count me in. Just need a decision on what to use.

Cheers

Tim



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Re: [Dorset] Next Meeting - COVID-19 Situation

2020-03-29 Thread Hamish McIntyre-Bhatty
Are people interested in getting this going?

I could make us a poll to sort out how we're doing it. I like the idea
of subgroups - I think it'd be difficult otherwise cos we often have
subgroups having mini-conversations. That way we could also switch
between conversations at will.

I was also wondering if people might like to do these more often, seeing
as we're all pretty much stuck at home for the foreseeable future?

Hamish

On 17/03/2020 16:42, PeterMerchant wrote:
>
>> I was wondering about some kind of virtual meeting at the normal date
>> and time, given homes now have fast Internet connections, but it would
>> need some experimentation beforehand by someone who has time or
>> experience.  :-)
>>
> I wonder if we could set up a WhatsApp group, and whether it could
> split off into sub-groups for different conversations. We use it at
> home, but only one-to-one so I don't know if this is possible.  Think
> I can link it from the small screen phone to my PC, but I haven't had
> too much luck with that.
>
> Also just saw a tweet for Zoom.us and my son says he has been using it
> for his lectures as he is teaching from home at the moment. Once again
> I know nothing about it.
>
> Peter M.
>
>


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Re: [Dorset] Next Meeting - COVID-19 Situation

2020-03-17 Thread Hamish McIntyre-Bhatty
I think a remote meetup would be nice. We could also use something like
Discord potentially. WhatsApp requires that they have your phone number
I believe - I won't be using that.

Hamish

On 17/03/2020 16:42, PeterMerchant wrote:
>
>> I was wondering about some kind of virtual meeting at the normal date
>> and time, given homes now have fast Internet connections, but it would
>> need some experimentation beforehand by someone who has time or
>> experience.  :-)
>>
> I wonder if we could set up a WhatsApp group, and whether it could
> split off into sub-groups for different conversations. We use it at
> home, but only one-to-one so I don't know if this is possible.  Think
> I can link it from the small screen phone to my PC, but I haven't had
> too much luck with that.
>
> Also just saw a tweet for Zoom.us and my son says he has been using it
> for his lectures as he is teaching from home at the moment. Once again
> I know nothing about it.
>
> Peter M.
>
>


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Re: [Dorset] Next Meeting - COVID-19 Situation

2020-03-17 Thread PeterMerchant



I was wondering about some kind of virtual meeting at the normal date
and time, given homes now have fast Internet connections, but it would
need some experimentation beforehand by someone who has time or
experience.  :-)


I wonder if we could set up a WhatsApp group, and whether it could split off 
into sub-groups for different conversations. We use it at home, but only 
one-to-one so I don't know if this is possible.  Think I can link it from the 
small screen phone to my PC, but I haven't had too much luck with that.

Also just saw a tweet for Zoom.us and my son says he has been using it for his 
lectures as he is teaching from home at the moment. Once again I know nothing 
about it.

Peter M.


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Re: [Dorset] Next Meeting - COVID-19 Situation

2020-03-17 Thread Ralph Corderoy
Hi Terry,

> As of now, they are no longer opening Mondays or Tuesdays, so that
> scuppers the next meeting straight away.  Apart from that, the
> likelihood is that the Government may shut down all places of assembly
> if the disease progresses as it has done in Italy and other countries
> that are a bit ahead of us.

And the Government advice is already to

- avoid social activities, such as going to pubs, restaurants,
  theatres and cinemas
- avoid events with large groups of people

so I updated the signature below a little before your email.  :-)

> our monthly social meetings will have to be put on hold.

I was wondering about some kind of virtual meeting at the normal date
and time, given homes now have fast Internet connections, but it would
need some experimentation beforehand by someone who has time or
experience.  :-)

There's self-hosted options like https://jitsi.org or off-the-shelf
ones.  But the problem I see is one large conversation doesn't really
suit the normal ebb and flow of pools of people conversing in real life.
Internet chat gets around that by just intermingling all the lines
people type with one prefixing the line by whom one's addressing, e.g.

AndrewM: Try  gmic camera screen resize2dx 20% append x

but I understand reading the result in a busy environment can be taxing
if it's novel.

-- 
Cheers, Ralph.

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[Dorset] Next Meeting - COVID-19 Situation

2020-03-17 Thread Terry Coles
Hi,

The next meeting is still 3 weeks away, but with the developing COVID-19 
situation I thought it might be an idea to ring the Bournemouth Electric Club 
to see if they had framed any Policy.

As of now, they are no longer opening Mondays or Tuesdays, so that scuppers 
the next meeting straight away.  Apart from that, the likelihood is that the 
Government may shut down all places of assembly if the disease progresses as 
it has done in Italy and other countries that are a bit ahead of us.

What this probably means is that we are probably going to have to suspend the 
meetings for an undefined period; how long that is likely to be varies from one 
month to 1-2 years depending on who you listen to.  I for one am already self-
isolating to try to avoid carrying the disease to my wife who has to take 
immunosuppressive drugs.  To be effective, that will have to continue at least 
until the medical community have come up with a cure and/or a vaccination.

So I'm predicting that whatever we as a group think about the COVID-19 
situation, our monthly social meetings will have to be put on hold.

I look forward to the end of this.

-- 



Terry Coles



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