Re: [Dorset] IONOS Appears to be Banning the use of Identities (Aliases)
On 09/12/2023 08:49, Terry Coles wrote: 'Important Change for Sending Emails with Sender Addresses Using Domains that are Different Sender Addresses.' Doh!.. That wasn't the original title at all. It was, and still is: 'Important Change for Sending Emails with Different Sender Addresses' -- Terry Coles -- Next meeting: Online, Jitsi, Tuesday, 2024-01-02 20:00 Check to whom you are replying Meetings, mailing list, IRC, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk New thread, don't hijack: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk
Re: [Dorset] IONOS Appears to be Banning the use of Identities (Aliases)
On 07/12/2023 13:13, Terry Coles wrote: On 07/12/2023 12:56, Ralph Corderoy wrote: Talk to IONOS. If they persist in restricting their service then withdraw your custom to send them a price signal. :-) I've just despatched a complaint and threatened that very thing. Surprise, surprise; they didn't really mean what they said. According to Support, the problem they have is with the level of spoofing that goes on where users use aliases to point to other domains. Once they had clarified this, I pointed out that the content of their guidance left a bit to be desired and suggested that, at the very least, the Title of the original notice that leads to the reference page be changed from: 'Important Change for Sending Emails with Sender Addresses Using Domains that are Different Sender Addresses.' to 'Important Change for Sending Emails with Sender Addresses Using Domains that are Different to the Default Mailbox.' As of this morning, they haven't taken this on board. -- Terry Coles -- Next meeting: Online, Jitsi, Tuesday, 2024-01-02 20:00 Check to whom you are replying Meetings, mailing list, IRC, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk New thread, don't hijack: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk
Re: [Dorset] IONOS Appears to be Banning the use of Identities (Aliases)
On 07/12/2023 12:56, Ralph Corderoy wrote: Hi Terry, As I said, I’m surprised that any hosting provider allows otherwise these days. Hugh, Can you please explain to me why using an alias (which has previously been set up as a mail forward) is a security risk? Can anyone explain this? I don't see the issue with a provider of email hosting for your-domain.com to allow you to send and receive emails from all and sundry addresses at that domain. Anti-spam measures SPF, DKIM, and DMARC work at the domain level AFAIK, not at the individual email address. Yes, to talk POP3, IMAP, or SMTP to your provider you will need to authenticate, preferably after establishing a encrypted connection using TLS. It's up to the provider what you authenticate with, e.g. ‘terry’ and ‘letmein’, what mailbox that gives you access to, and what email addresses it lets you send from. Talk to IONOS. If they persist in restricting their service then withdraw your custom to send them a price signal. :-) Many years ago when Ionos were 1 and 1, I threaten to withdraw my services from them (cant remember what the issue was), by the time I had got off the phone my account had been terminated. Fortunately I was intending to to move anyway and was part way through moving stuff the but it still left me with several hours of panic to get everything up and running on my new provider. Tim H -- Next meeting: Online, Jitsi, Tuesday, 2024-01-02 20:00 Check to whom you are replying Meetings, mailing list, IRC, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk New thread, don't hijack: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk
Re: [Dorset] IONOS Appears to be Banning the use of Identities (Aliases)
On 07/12/2023 12:56, Ralph Corderoy wrote: Talk to IONOS. If they persist in restricting their service then withdraw your custom to send them a price signal. :-) I've just despatched a complaint and threatened that very thing. -- Terry Coles -- Next meeting: Online, Jitsi, Tuesday, 2024-01-02 20:00 Check to whom you are replying Meetings, mailing list, IRC, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk New thread, don't hijack: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk
Re: [Dorset] IONOS Appears to be Banning the use of Identities (Aliases)
Hi Terry, > > > As I said, I’m surprised that any hosting provider allows > > > otherwise these days. > > > > Hugh, > > > > Can you please explain to me why using an alias (which has > > previously been set up as a mail forward) is a security risk? > > Can anyone explain this? I don't see the issue with a provider of email hosting for your-domain.com to allow you to send and receive emails from all and sundry addresses at that domain. Anti-spam measures SPF, DKIM, and DMARC work at the domain level AFAIK, not at the individual email address. Yes, to talk POP3, IMAP, or SMTP to your provider you will need to authenticate, preferably after establishing a encrypted connection using TLS. It's up to the provider what you authenticate with, e.g. ‘terry’ and ‘letmein’, what mailbox that gives you access to, and what email addresses it lets you send from. Talk to IONOS. If they persist in restricting their service then withdraw your custom to send them a price signal. :-) -- Cheers, Ralph. -- Next meeting: Online, Jitsi, Tuesday, 2024-01-02 20:00 Check to whom you are replying Meetings, mailing list, IRC, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk New thread, don't hijack: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk
Re: [Dorset] IONOS Appears to be Banning the use of Identities (Aliases)
On 07/12/2023 12:17, Terry Coles wrote: I still cannot understand where the security risk lies, so maybe it's time to ask IONOS. At least I won't be asking them to explain something that is obvious to everyone else, which was my initial concern. I just spoke to IONOS Support, who were remarkably quick to answer my call, but also remarkably useless. When I asked what the risk was in using mail forwards as aliases I was initially told that this was the new Policy, not what the risk was. When I persisted, I was eventually told that this was to stop me spamming! Since the alias would point to my legitimate domain, I fail to see how banning aliases prevents me getting away with spamming any more than using the mailbox address would. I now have to raise a complaint, but it looks as if I'm going to have to transfer my domain to another provider and laboriously set up all the aliases again (I have 399, although some of those may well be defunct). Hopefully the new provider won't have the same bright idea. -- Terry Coles -- Next meeting: Online, Jitsi, Tuesday, 2024-01-02 20:00 Check to whom you are replying Meetings, mailing list, IRC, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk New thread, don't hijack: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk
Re: [Dorset] IONOS Appears to be Banning the use of Identities (Aliases)
On 07/12/2023 12:10, Stephen Wolff wrote: I don’t think you’re being dense no, but emails can be cryptographically signed and also encrypted. Not sure if you can sign an alias. I'm aware that the *messages* can be encrypted and/or signed with a cryptographic signature, but that has nothing to do with the mailbox, let alone any alias pointing to that mailbox. I still cannot understand where the security risk lies, so maybe it's time to ask IONOS. At least I won't be asking them to explain something that is obvious to everyone else, which was my initial concern. -- Terry Coles -- Next meeting: Online, Jitsi, Tuesday, 2024-01-02 20:00 Check to whom you are replying Meetings, mailing list, IRC, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk New thread, don't hijack: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk
Re: [Dorset] IONOS Appears to be Banning the use of Identities (Aliases)
I don’t think you’re being dense no, but emails can be cryptographically signed and also encrypted. Not sure if you can sign an alias. > On 7 Dec 2023, at 07:09, Terry Coles wrote: > > On 07/12/2023 07:03, Stephen Wolff wrote: >> My guess is if you can have an alias which isn’t (cryptographically) signed, >> you can pretend to be whoever you like, and as such spam folk as your best >> friend or worst enemy. I suppose the alternative is to use a mail service >> like Proton or something? > > AFAIK, a pukka mailbox isn't cryptographically signed and even if it is, the > alias simply points to a pukka mailbox in the same domain as the alias. > > Am I being particularly dense? > > -- > > Terry Coles > > > -- > Next meeting: Online, Jitsi, Tuesday, 2024-01-02 20:00 > Check to whom you are replying > Meetings, mailing list, IRC, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk > New thread, don't hijack: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk -- Next meeting: Online, Jitsi, Tuesday, 2024-01-02 20:00 Check to whom you are replying Meetings, mailing list, IRC, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk New thread, don't hijack: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk
Re: [Dorset] IONOS Appears to be Banning the use of Identities (Aliases)
On 07/12/2023 07:03, Stephen Wolff wrote: My guess is if you can have an alias which isn’t (cryptographically) signed, you can pretend to be whoever you like, and as such spam folk as your best friend or worst enemy. I suppose the alternative is to use a mail service like Proton or something? AFAIK, a pukka mailbox isn't cryptographically signed and even if it is, the alias simply points to a pukka mailbox in the same domain as the alias. Am I being particularly dense? -- Terry Coles -- Next meeting: Online, Jitsi, Tuesday, 2024-01-02 20:00 Check to whom you are replying Meetings, mailing list, IRC, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk New thread, don't hijack: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk
Re: [Dorset] IONOS Appears to be Banning the use of Identities (Aliases)
>> Can you please explain to me why using an alias (which has previously been >> set up as a mail forward) is a security risk? > Can anyone explain this? My guess is if you can have an alias which isn’t (cryptographically) signed, you can pretend to be whoever you like, and as such spam folk as your best friend or worst enemy. I suppose the alternative is to use a mail service like Proton or something? Stephen -- Next meeting: Online, Jitsi, Tuesday, 2024-01-02 20:00 Check to whom you are replying Meetings, mailing list, IRC, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk New thread, don't hijack: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk
Re: [Dorset] IONOS Appears to be Banning the use of Identities (Aliases)
On 06/12/2023 10:38, Terry Coles wrote: On 06/12/2023 10:29, Hugh Frater wrote: As I said, I’m surprised that any hosting provider allows otherwise these days. Hugh, Can you please explain to me why using an alias (which has previously been set up as a mail forward) is a security risk? Can anyone explain this? -- Terry Coles -- Next meeting: Online, Jitsi, Tuesday, 2024-01-02 20:00 Check to whom you are replying Meetings, mailing list, IRC, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk New thread, don't hijack: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk
Re: [Dorset] IONOS Appears to be Banning the use of Identities (Aliases)
On 06/12/2023 10:29, Hugh Frater wrote: As I said, I’m surprised that any hosting provider allows otherwise these days. Hugh, Can you please explain to me why using an alias (which has previously been set up as a mail forward) is a security risk? -- Terry Coles -- Next meeting: Online, Jitsi, Tuesday, 2023-12-05 20:00 Check to whom you are replying Meetings, mailing list, IRC, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk New thread, don't hijack: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk
Re: [Dorset] IONOS Appears to be Banning the use of Identities (Aliases)
Yeah, that’s what I figured Terry was trying to do. I know fasthosts don’t let us do this for our work domain. The from address must exist as a mailbox, and smtp auth is required on the server for that mailbox (obviously).. As I said, I’m surprised that any hosting provider allows otherwise these days. For our domain we use a single catch-all mailbox that everyone sends from, but our display names are different. That has been fun to get setup on 365 (not)…. Sent from my iPhone On Wed, 6 Dec 2023 at 10:16, Ralph Corderoy wrote: > Hi Hugh, > > > I thought all hosting providers did this about 10 years ago? > > I think Terry's complaint is he has his own domain name and pays IONOS > to host it. He expect to be able to use anyth...@his-domain.com. > He isn't trying to use other domain names. > > If switching provider, these two firms have good reputations. > https://www.mythic-beasts.com/hosting > https://www.aa.net.uk/etc/domains/email/ > > -- > Cheers, Ralph. > > -- > Next meeting: Online, Jitsi, Tuesday, 2023-12-05 20:00 > Check to whom you are replying > Meetings, mailing list, IRC, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk > New thread, don't hijack: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk > -- Next meeting: Online, Jitsi, Tuesday, 2023-12-05 20:00 Check to whom you are replying Meetings, mailing list, IRC, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk New thread, don't hijack: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk
Re: [Dorset] IONOS Appears to be Banning the use of Identities (Aliases)
On 06/12/2023 10:16, Ralph Corderoy wrote: I think Terry's complaint is he has his own domain name and pays IONOS to host it. He expect to be able to use anyth...@his-domain.com. He isn't trying to use other domain names. If switching provider, these two firms have good reputations. https://www.mythic-beasts.com/hosting https://www.aa.net.uk/etc/domains/email/ Thanks Ralph; that is exactly what I'm querying. IONOS provides the facility to create an unlimited number of email forwards. I appreciate that many would use this to forward their mail to another mailbox, eg personal mail to a work address or vice versa. I have used this feature to create aliases or identities ever since I first subscribed to the company about 20 -30 years ago (they were One and One then). What I can't work out from their description is whether they are restricting the use of all and any aliases or if the ones that they know about from the previously defined forwards are exempt from the ban. If necessary, I will raise a query with their support team, but they aren't noted for responsiveness, so I thought I would seek clarification here first. -- Terry Coles -- Next meeting: Online, Jitsi, Tuesday, 2023-12-05 20:00 Check to whom you are replying Meetings, mailing list, IRC, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk New thread, don't hijack: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk
Re: [Dorset] IONOS Appears to be Banning the use of Identities (Aliases)
Hi Hugh, > I thought all hosting providers did this about 10 years ago? I think Terry's complaint is he has his own domain name and pays IONOS to host it. He expect to be able to use anyth...@his-domain.com. He isn't trying to use other domain names. If switching provider, these two firms have good reputations. https://www.mythic-beasts.com/hosting https://www.aa.net.uk/etc/domains/email/ -- Cheers, Ralph. -- Next meeting: Online, Jitsi, Tuesday, 2023-12-05 20:00 Check to whom you are replying Meetings, mailing list, IRC, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk New thread, don't hijack: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk
Re: [Dorset] IONOS Appears to be Banning the use of Identities (Aliases)
I thought all hosting providers did this about 10 years ago? It has certainly been the case with fasthosts for as long as I can remember. Couple that with a proper spf and dmarc entry and it pretty much eliminates from: spoofing. Sent from my iPhone On Wed, 6 Dec 2023 at 08:08, Terry Coles wrote: > Hi, > > I received a message from my hosting provider, IONOS which appears to > state that they are banning the use of Identities. > > Having drilled down through the various layers of their message, I > reached the following link, which pertains to users of Thunderbird: > > > https://www.ionos.co.uk/help/email/absenderadressen-aendern/checking-and-changing-your-sender-address-in-mozilla-thunderbird/ > > In there, it talks about deleting all identities except the default one > (the actual mailbox address). > > Can anyone confirm that they are saying that Identities or Aliases may > no longer be used? If so, far from being an improvement in security, it > opens up the users to spammers and scammers from any business or website > that obtains the mailbox address. For the most part, I have studiously > avoided giving *anyone *this address for the past 30 odd years > specifically to avoid problems with spam. > > Have I missed something? > > -- > Terry Coles > > > -- > Next meeting: Online, Jitsi, Tuesday, 2023-12-05 20:00 > Check to whom you are replying > Meetings, mailing list, IRC, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk > New thread, don't hijack: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk > -- Next meeting: Online, Jitsi, Tuesday, 2023-12-05 20:00 Check to whom you are replying Meetings, mailing list, IRC, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk New thread, don't hijack: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk