Re: Dovecot + sis problem

2021-01-06 Thread Michał Kiljański
Ok, thanks. But :) What is strange for me is disk usage. du -s -h /var/mail/attachments/8b/67/ 16M /var/mail/attachments/8b/67/ check indes ls -i /var/mail/attachments/8b/67/ 662975

Re: Dovecot + sis problem

2021-01-06 Thread Patrick Cernko
Hi Michal, On 06.01.21 00:18, Michał Kiljański wrote: Hi, My setup is: mail_attachment_dir = /var/mail/attachments mail_attachment_hash = %{sha512} mail_attachment_min_size = 64k mail_attachment_fs = sis posix Something works - but I expected that is one instance of file, and this file is

Dovecot + sis problem

2021-01-05 Thread Michał Kiljański
Hi, My setup is: mail_attachment_dir = /var/mail/attachments mail_attachment_hash = %{sha512} mail_attachment_min_size = 64k mail_attachment_fs = sis posix Something works - but I expected that is one instance of file, and this file is linked to messages. But here in folder I have got this: sudo

[Dovecot] SiS attachment file larger than expected

2013-03-24 Thread Erik Persson
Hello! Name's Erik and I have been using Dovecot for a few months and I so far quite happy with the software. To this list I am quite new though. After a testing period I have now been running a ~300 user system running CentOS 6 and Dovecot 2.1.14 with Postfix and SiS enabled. For the large

Re: [Dovecot] SiS attachment file larger than expected

2013-03-24 Thread Timo Sirainen
On 25.3.2013, at 1.10, Erik Persson e...@lysator.liu.se wrote: For the large part the system is running flawlessly but I have caught a few error messages: imap(censored@censored.domain): Error: Attachment file

Re: [Dovecot] SiS attachment file larger than expected

2013-03-24 Thread Erik Persson
25 mar 2013 kl. 00:19 skrev Timo Sirainen t...@iki.fi: On 25.3.2013, at 1.10, Erik Persson e...@lysator.liu.se wrote: For the large part the system is running flawlessly but I have caught a few error messages: imap(censored@censored.domain): Error: Attachment file

Re: [Dovecot] SIS and restoring from backups

2012-03-29 Thread Charles Marcus
On 2012-03-28 7:57 PM, Timo Sirainen t...@iki.fi wrote: It's easy to restore a full backup. And it's easy to restore specific users if you have the full backup easily accessible (just run doveadm import with proper settings pointing to backup). What's difficult is if you just want to restore a

Re: [Dovecot] SIS and restoring from backups

2012-03-28 Thread Timo Sirainen
On 25.3.2012, at 18.12, Charles Marcus wrote: On 2012-03-24 9:16 AM, Timo Sirainen t...@iki.fi wrote: On 24.3.2012, at 14.54, Charles Marcus wrote: On 2012-03-24 8:08 AM, Timo Sirainent...@iki.fi wrote: You can do full backups from a filesystem snapshot, which works well enough (might

Re: [Dovecot] SIS and restoring from backups

2012-03-25 Thread Charles Marcus
On 2012-03-24 9:16 AM, Timo Sirainen t...@iki.fi wrote: On 24.3.2012, at 14.54, Charles Marcus wrote: On 2012-03-24 8:08 AM, Timo Sirainent...@iki.fi wrote: You can do full backups from a filesystem snapshot, which works well enough (might leave some unused attachments lying around in some

[Dovecot] SIS and restoring from backups

2012-03-24 Thread Charles Marcus
On 2012-03-24 7:49 AM, Timo Sirainen t...@iki.fi wrote: This is already optionally done in v2.0+dbox. MIME attachments can be stored in plain binary form if they can be reconstructed back into their original form. It doesn't break any signed stuff. Hey Timo, Splitting this off into a

Re: [Dovecot] SIS and restoring from backups

2012-03-24 Thread Timo Sirainen
On 24.3.2012, at 14.01, Charles Marcus wrote: On the question of the existing SIS capability for attachments... have you given any thought as to how to solve the problem of restoring from backups when SIS is used? I was planning on using it initially, until I read on list that restoring

Re: [Dovecot] SIS and restoring from backups

2012-03-24 Thread Charles Marcus
On 2012-03-24 8:08 AM, Timo Sirainen t...@iki.fi wrote: You can do full backups from a filesystem snapshot, which works well enough (might leave some unused attachments lying around in some rare cases, but that can also happen if Dovecot crashes/dies). But the problem isn't with backups, but

Re: [Dovecot] SIS and restoring from backups

2012-03-24 Thread Timo Sirainen
On 24.3.2012, at 14.54, Charles Marcus wrote: On 2012-03-24 8:08 AM, Timo Sirainen t...@iki.fi wrote: You can do full backups from a filesystem snapshot, which works well enough (might leave some unused attachments lying around in some rare cases, but that can also happen if Dovecot

[Dovecot] SiS

2011-08-24 Thread Guy Deleeuw
Hello, SiS is implemented and stable in the last version ? Best Regards Guy

Re: [Dovecot] SIS: Corrupted dbox file /dane/...../m.1 (around offset=98692): uid=44 points to broken data at offset=98662

2011-04-04 Thread Timo Sirainen
On Thu, 2011-03-31 at 18:40 +0200, Marcin Mirosław wrote: P.S. Is it possible to have attachments comprest with zlib plugin? Not currently. (Or you could of course use a filesystem that offers compression internally.)

Re: [Dovecot] SiS: Attachment file larger than expected

2011-04-04 Thread Timo Sirainen
On Mon, 2011-03-28 at 16:00 +0200, Andrew Lewis wrote: Do you think it's possible for you to reproduce this? If you have the original pre-dbox mail and you convert it to a new and empty dbox+sis and reading it gives this error message, I'd really like to get the original mail. Yes, I

Re: [Dovecot] SiS: Attachment file larger than expected

2011-04-04 Thread Timo Sirainen
On Mon, 2011-04-04 at 17:59 +0300, Timo Sirainen wrote: Mar 28 15:54:38 mail dovecot: imap(dru.test@xxx): Error: Attachment file /mailstore/attachments/ce/73/ce737a45fe07495e2ae6466f9e381a30d5ec300406f11269d79bd5608cc0c922-e2ff0d2b0692904dc51b9501e12a larger than expected (252218)

[Dovecot] SIS: Corrupted dbox file /dane/...../m.1 (around offset=98692): uid=44 points to broken data at offset=98662

2011-03-31 Thread Marcin Mirosław
Hi! I'm not sure is it the same as described by Andrew Lewis, this is whay i'm posting. Log is: 2011-03-31T17:40:08.369598+02:00 hermes dovecot: imap-login: Login: user=mar...@mejor.pl, method=PLAIN, rip=62.121.127.119, lip=193.238.12.139, mpid=19221, TLS 2011-03-31T17:40:08.684562+02:00 hermes

Re: [Dovecot] SIS: Corrupted dbox file /dane/...../m.1 (around offset=98692): uid=44 points to broken data at offset=98662

2011-03-31 Thread Timo Sirainen
On 31.3.2011, at 18.46, Marcin Mirosław wrote: Error: Corrupted dbox file /dane/domeny/mejor.pl/mail/marcin/mdbox/storage/m.1 (around offset=98692): Ext refs metadata corrupted: 3604 3311 - a5/2f/a52fbe2094a0f68cdb403d696b313d9e3fba6978-f722212d1ea0944daf4aa95b0854 .. # 2.0.11:

Re: [Dovecot] SIS: Corrupted dbox file /dane/...../m.1 (around offset=98692): uid=44 points to broken data at offset=98662

2011-03-31 Thread Marcin Mirosław
W dniu 2011-03-31 18:09, Timo Sirainen pisze: Unpatched 2.0.11? Now patched with mentioned patch ;) Problem has gone away. Thank you. P.S. Is it possible to have attachments comprest with zlib plugin?

[Dovecot] SiS: Attachment file larger than expected

2011-03-28 Thread Andrew Lewis
I recently set up SiS and imported a large chunk of mail. I've noticed one or two instances of this in the logs: Mar 28 09:03:50 mail dovecot: imap(x...@yyy.zz): Error: Attachment file

Re: [Dovecot] SiS: Attachment file larger than expected

2011-03-28 Thread Timo Sirainen
On 28.3.2011, at 16.25, Andrew Lewis wrote: I recently set up SiS and imported a large chunk of mail. With dsync? I've noticed one or two instances of this in the logs: Mar 28 09:03:50 mail dovecot: imap(x...@yyy.zz): Error: Attachment file

Re: [Dovecot] SiS: Attachment file larger than expected

2011-03-28 Thread Andrew Lewis
Hi Timo, I recently set up SiS and imported a large chunk of mail. With dsync? Using fetchmail (delivery via LMTP) and imapsync, dsync does not support the mail storage I moved away from. Do you think it's possible for you to reproduce this? If you have the original pre-dbox mail and you

Re: [Dovecot] SIS errors - was Error from mobile client (Palm Pre)

2010-12-03 Thread Timo Sirainen
I fixed a couple of bugs: http://hg.dovecot.org/dovecot-2.0/rev/e5dcc12f8dba http://hg.dovecot.org/dovecot-2.0/rev/4455f79f964d But yeah, looks like there are some more bugs when mail compression is enabled. It somehow truncates attachments sometimes. I'll continue looking into it..

Re: [Dovecot] SIS errors - was Error from mobile client (Palm Pre)

2010-12-03 Thread Timo Sirainen
On 3.12.2010, at 9.26, Timo Sirainen wrote: I fixed a couple of bugs: http://hg.dovecot.org/dovecot-2.0/rev/e5dcc12f8dba http://hg.dovecot.org/dovecot-2.0/rev/4455f79f964d But yeah, looks like there are some more bugs when mail compression is enabled. It somehow truncates attachments

Re: [Dovecot] SIS errors - was Error from mobile client (Palm Pre)

2010-12-03 Thread Daniel L. Miller
On 12/2/2010 11:52 PM, Timo Sirainen wrote: On 2.12.2010, at 23.39, Daniel L. Miller wrote: When I do a doveadm fetch -u user hdr uid 12557 I receive more than one message. Is this normal? Yes, because you didn't specify mailbox. Also don't just fetch hdr, that won't trigger the error. So

Re: [Dovecot] SIS errors - was Error from mobile client (Palm Pre)

2010-12-03 Thread Daniel L. Miller
On 12/3/2010 2:17 AM, Timo Sirainen wrote: On 3.12.2010, at 9.26, Timo Sirainen wrote: I fixed a couple of bugs: http://hg.dovecot.org/dovecot-2.0/rev/e5dcc12f8dba http://hg.dovecot.org/dovecot-2.0/rev/4455f79f964d But yeah, looks like there are some more bugs when mail compression is

Re: [Dovecot] SIS errors - was Error from mobile client (Palm Pre)

2010-12-03 Thread Daniel L. Miller
On 12/3/2010 9:15 AM, Daniel L. Miller wrote: On 12/3/2010 2:17 AM, Timo Sirainen wrote: On 3.12.2010, at 9.26, Timo Sirainen wrote: I fixed a couple of bugs: http://hg.dovecot.org/dovecot-2.0/rev/e5dcc12f8dba http://hg.dovecot.org/dovecot-2.0/rev/4455f79f964d But yeah, looks like there are

Re: [Dovecot] SIS errors - was Error from mobile client (Palm Pre)

2010-12-03 Thread Timo Sirainen
On 3.12.2010, at 23.28, Daniel L. Miller wrote: Still breaking on new mails. Show some error logs.

Re: [Dovecot] SIS errors - was Error from mobile client (Palm Pre)

2010-12-03 Thread Daniel L. Miller
On 12/3/2010 3:32 PM, Timo Sirainen wrote: On 3.12.2010, at 23.28, Daniel L. Miller wrote: Still breaking on new mails. Show some error logs. Dec 3 15:24:45 bubba dovecot: imap(dmil...@amfes.com): Error: FETCH [1.2.MIME] for mailbox INBOX UID 10921 got too little data: 0 vs 94 Dec 3

Re: [Dovecot] SIS errors - was Error from mobile client (Palm Pre)

2010-12-03 Thread Timo Sirainen
On 4.12.2010, at 0.46, Daniel L. Miller wrote: On 12/3/2010 3:32 PM, Timo Sirainen wrote: On 3.12.2010, at 23.28, Daniel L. Miller wrote: Still breaking on new mails. Show some error logs. Dec 3 15:24:45 bubba dovecot: imap(dmil...@amfes.com): Error: FETCH [1.2.MIME] for mailbox

Re: [Dovecot] SIS errors - was Error from mobile client (Palm Pre)

2010-12-02 Thread Daniel L. Miller
On 12/1/2010 11:02 AM, Daniel L. Miller wrote: On 12/1/2010 10:49 AM, Daniel L. Miller wrote: On 11/30/2010 8:09 PM, Daniel L. Miller wrote: Continuing to see errors on this with some new messages. Is it possible this has anything to do with zlib plugin, or possibly having a mix of zlib

Re: [Dovecot] SIS errors - was Error from mobile client (Palm Pre)

2010-12-02 Thread Timo Sirainen
On Thu, 2010-12-02 at 10:40 -0800, Daniel L. Miller wrote: On 12/1/2010 11:02 AM, Daniel L. Miller wrote: On 12/1/2010 10:49 AM, Daniel L. Miller wrote: On 11/30/2010 8:09 PM, Daniel L. Miller wrote: Continuing to see errors on this with some new messages. Is it possible this has

Re: [Dovecot] SIS errors - was Error from mobile client (Palm Pre)

2010-12-02 Thread Daniel L. Miller
On 12/2/2010 11:17 AM, Timo Sirainen wrote: I'll try to look into this soon.. You could of course see if disabling zlib plugin makes it work again? Or the best would be if you could get a copy of such mdbox storage where this is reproducible with a doveadm fetch command. I could then send some

Re: [Dovecot] SIS errors - was Error from mobile client (Palm Pre)

2010-12-02 Thread Timo Sirainen
On 2.12.2010, at 23.39, Daniel L. Miller wrote: When I do a doveadm fetch -u user hdr uid 12557 I receive more than one message. Is this normal? Yes, because you didn't specify mailbox. Also don't just fetch hdr, that won't trigger the error. So something like: doveadm fetch -u user text

Re: [Dovecot] SIS errors - was Error from mobile client (Palm Pre)

2010-12-01 Thread Daniel L. Miller
On 11/30/2010 8:09 PM, Daniel L. Miller wrote: Continuing to see errors on this with some new messages. Is it possible this has anything to do with zlib plugin, or possibly having a mix of zlib compressed uncompressed messages with mdbox? I recently added zlib to deliver plugin list. I

Re: [Dovecot] SIS errors - was Error from mobile client (Palm Pre)

2010-12-01 Thread Daniel L. Miller
On 12/1/2010 10:49 AM, Daniel L. Miller wrote: On 11/30/2010 8:09 PM, Daniel L. Miller wrote: Continuing to see errors on this with some new messages. Is it possible this has anything to do with zlib plugin, or possibly having a mix of zlib compressed uncompressed messages with mdbox? I

[Dovecot] SIS errors - was Error from mobile client (Palm Pre)

2010-11-30 Thread Daniel L. Miller
Continuing to see errors on this with some new messages. Is it possible this has anything to do with zlib plugin, or possibly having a mix of zlib compressed uncompressed messages with mdbox? I recently added zlib to deliver plugin list. -- Daniel L. Miller, VP - Engineering, SET AM Fire

Re: [Dovecot] SIS Error

2010-11-04 Thread Timo Sirainen
On Thu, 2010-11-04 at 14:01 +, Timo Sirainen wrote: On Wed, 2010-11-03 at 19:17 -0700, Daniel L. Miller wrote: Nov 3 16:08:00 bubba dovecot: imap(dmil...@amfes.com): Error: Attachment file

Re: [Dovecot] SIS Error

2010-11-04 Thread Timo Sirainen
On Thu, 2010-11-04 at 14:02 +, Timo Sirainen wrote: Nov 3 16:08:00 bubba dovecot: imap(dmil...@amfes.com): Error: Attachment file /var/mail/attachments/dc/73/dc7398c85dd02efe8a14fe6cc019b2cf07eec600-d5ca962aaae7d14c58743bc41c5f size mismatch: 122626 != 165655 OK,

Re: [Dovecot] SIS Error

2010-11-04 Thread Daniel L. Miller
On 11/4/2010 7:08 AM, Timo Sirainen wrote: On Thu, 2010-11-04 at 14:02 +, Timo Sirainen wrote: Nov 3 16:08:00 bubba dovecot: imap(dmil...@amfes.com): Error: Attachment file /var/mail/attachments/dc/73/dc7398c85dd02efe8a14fe6cc019b2cf07eec600-d5ca962aaae7d14c58743bc41c5f size

[Dovecot] SIS Error

2010-11-03 Thread Daniel L. Miller
Came across this in the logs... Nov 3 16:08:00 bubba dovecot: imap(dmil...@amfes.com): Error: Attachment file /var/mail/attachments/dc/73/dc7398c85dd02efe8a14fe6cc019b2cf07eec600-d5ca962aaae7d14c58743bc41c5f size mismatch: 122626 != 165655 There's about a dozen different file entries

Re: [Dovecot] SIS Error

2010-11-03 Thread Timo Sirainen
On 4.11.2010, at 2.09, Daniel L. Miller wrote: Nov 3 16:08:00 bubba dovecot: imap(dmil...@amfes.com): Error: Attachment file /var/mail/attachments/dc/73/dc7398c85dd02efe8a14fe6cc019b2cf07eec600-d5ca962aaae7d14c58743bc41c5f size mismatch: 122626 != 165655 What's the file's size? What

Re: [Dovecot] SIS Error

2010-11-03 Thread Daniel L. Miller
On 11/3/2010 7:13 PM, Timo Sirainen wrote: On 4.11.2010, at 2.09, Daniel L. Miller wrote: Nov 3 16:08:00 bubba dovecot: imap(dmil...@amfes.com): Error: Attachment file /var/mail/attachments/dc/73/dc7398c85dd02efe8a14fe6cc019b2cf07eec600-d5ca962aaae7d14c58743bc41c5f size mismatch: 122626

Re: [Dovecot] SIS

2010-09-16 Thread Timo Sirainen
On Wed, 2010-09-15 at 22:16 -0700, Daniel L. Miller wrote: Is SIS for dbox included in the 2.0.2 sources? Or only via Mercurial? Only in hg. Maybe I'll put it to 2.0.3 or 2.0.4.

[Dovecot] SIS

2010-09-15 Thread Daniel L. Miller
Is SIS for dbox included in the 2.0.2 sources? Or only via Mercurial? -- Daniel

[Dovecot] SIS for maildir?

2010-09-03 Thread Mike Abbott
When might deduplication of attachments work with maildir?

Re: [Dovecot] SIS for maildir?

2010-09-03 Thread Timo Sirainen
On Fri, 2010-09-03 at 12:07 -0500, Mike Abbott wrote: When might deduplication of attachments work with maildir? I was planning on never. :) But here's a quick design idea: - Save normal mail data without attachments, similar to dbox - In maildir filename keep S= and W= the same as if the

Re: [Dovecot] SIS for maildir?

2010-09-03 Thread Timo Sirainen
On Fri, 2010-09-03 at 18:17 +0100, Timo Sirainen wrote: Hmm. This reminds me, it might be nice to be able to copy messages with attachments in sdbox without temporarily duplicating the attachment.. Oh, it does, because it normally copies with hard links.

[Dovecot] SIS Implementation

2009-08-14 Thread Daniel L. Miller
What would be involved in implementing SIS within Dovecot? A new or modified mailbox format? -- Daniel

Re: [Dovecot] SIS Implementation

2009-08-14 Thread Timo Sirainen
On Fri, 2009-08-14 at 11:28 -0700, Daniel L. Miller wrote: What would be involved in implementing SIS within Dovecot? A new or modified mailbox format? It could be added to dbox without too much trouble. I already kind of planned for it: /* Pointer to external message data. Format

Re: [Dovecot] SIS Implementation

2009-08-14 Thread Daniel L. Miller
Timo Sirainen wrote: On Fri, 2009-08-14 at 11:28 -0700, Daniel L. Miller wrote: What would be involved in implementing SIS within Dovecot? A new or modified mailbox format? It could be added to dbox without too much trouble. I already kind of planned for it: /* Pointer to

Re: [Dovecot] SIS Implementation

2009-08-14 Thread Eric Jon Rostetter
Quoting Timo Sirainen t...@iki.fi: 1) When writing the data, extract the attachments and write them to different files. Add pointers to those files to the EXT_REF metadata. Dovecot's message parsers should make this not-too-difficult to implement. I'd rather it did mime parts, rather than

Re: [Dovecot] SIS Implementation

2009-08-14 Thread Timo Sirainen
On Fri, 2009-08-14 at 12:06 -0700, Daniel L. Miller wrote: Now do we need to implement some kind of external database for tracking the attachments between mailboxes? Any thoughts on what that should look like? I think: Step 1) Calculate SHA256 of the attachment and get base64 sum of it.

Re: [Dovecot] SIS Implementation

2009-08-14 Thread Timo Sirainen
On Fri, 2009-08-14 at 14:18 -0500, Eric Jon Rostetter wrote: Quoting Timo Sirainen t...@iki.fi: 1) When writing the data, extract the attachments and write them to different files. Add pointers to those files to the EXT_REF metadata. Dovecot's message parsers should make this

Re: [Dovecot] SIS Implementation

2009-08-14 Thread Jason Fesler
Hard links would be the simplest implementation without needing a separate database. Sure you could implement that too if you wanted to. It would be worth checking the limits for hard links, and making sure they are suitable for a large mail system using this scheme, without having a fallback

Re: [Dovecot] SIS Implementation

2009-08-14 Thread Timo Sirainen
On Fri, 2009-08-14 at 12:40 -0700, Jason Fesler wrote: Hard links would be the simplest implementation without needing a separate database. Sure you could implement that too if you wanted to. It would be worth checking the limits for hard links, and making sure they are suitable for a

Re: [Dovecot] SIS Implementation

2009-08-14 Thread Timo Sirainen
Step 4) Figure out if base64-encoded attachments can be decoded in a way that allows re-encoding them back to the exact original encoding. If so, save the attachment decoded and add the necessary encoding info the dbox metadata. Or perhaps just store them compressed. How much of a difference is

Re: [Dovecot] SIS Implementation

2009-08-14 Thread Timo Sirainen
On Fri, 2009-08-14 at 13:54 -0700, Daniel L. Miller wrote: Timo Sirainen wrote: Step 4) Figure out if base64-encoded attachments can be decoded in a way that allows re-encoding them back to the exact original encoding. If so, save the attachment decoded and add the necessary encoding info

Re: [Dovecot] SIS Implementation

2009-08-14 Thread Daniel L. Miller
Timo Sirainen wrote: Step 4) Figure out if base64-encoded attachments can be decoded in a way that allows re-encoding them back to the exact original encoding. If so, save the attachment decoded and add the necessary encoding info the dbox metadata. Or perhaps just store them compressed. How

Re: [Dovecot] SIS Implementation

2009-08-14 Thread Charles Marcus
On 8/14/2009, Timo Sirainen (t...@iki.fi) wrote: Hard links would be the simplest implementation without needing a separate database. Sure you could implement that too if you wanted to. So... support hard links natively (on FS that support them), then allow for supporting other backend storage

Re: [Dovecot] SIS Implementation

2009-08-14 Thread Timo Sirainen
On Fri, 2009-08-14 at 17:06 -0400, Charles Marcus wrote: On 8/14/2009, Timo Sirainen (t...@iki.fi) wrote: Hard links would be the simplest implementation without needing a separate database. Sure you could implement that too if you wanted to. So... support hard links natively (on FS that

Re: [Dovecot] SIS Implementation

2009-08-14 Thread WJCarpenter
Step 4) Figure out if base64-encoded attachments can be decoded in a way that allows re-encoding them back to the exact original encoding. If so, save the attachment decoded and add the necessary encoding info the dbox metadata. Although you might like to do that for some sort of tidiness

Re: [Dovecot] SIS Implementation

2009-08-14 Thread Timo Sirainen
On Aug 14, 2009, at 7:15 PM, WJCarpenter wrote: Step 4) Figure out if base64-encoded attachments can be decoded in a way that allows re-encoding them back to the exact original encoding. If so, save the attachment decoded and add the necessary encoding info the dbox metadata.

Re: [Dovecot] SIS Implementation

2009-08-14 Thread WJCarpenter
I was thinking things like: upper vs. lowercase characters, different line wrapping lengths, possibly some other weird stuff.. I'd think that all digital signatures break if any of those change? Or do they really parse the headers and do calculate the signatures using the decoded base64?

Re: [Dovecot] SIS Implementation

2009-08-14 Thread Timo Sirainen
On Aug 14, 2009, at 8:39 PM, WJCarpenter wrote: These days, standardized digitial signature schemes take into account legal transformations that can happen during message transmission. Most of them have a canonicalization formula so that things still work. However, in early days, various