Re: Ms Exchange vs dovecot
I'm in the process of implementing Z-Push: a PHP-written layer that sits between your client and backends and offers activesync, since clients that belong to multinationals that offer propietary stuff (MS, Google) try to steer you around protocols like CardDAV, CalDAV and IMAP since their protocols are 'pushier' (while in reality the only 'push' they provide is in the direction of their products). The only thing they *do* properly support is activesync. Z-Push lets you connect to Dovecot for IMAP/mail and to for instance nextcloud for CardDAV and CalDAV while offering *all* those protocols to clients, which means that Thunderbird, Outlook, Gmail and Apple devices all can get their optimal experience. There are some issues regarding the IMAP flag synchronization which I'm working on (https://jira.z-hub.io/browse/ZP-1561). I also have some notes on implementing a multi-domain setup (https://forum.kopano.io/topic/3265/multiple-z-push-instances-on-one-server/6) Regards, Guido Goluke Op 12-05-2020 om 18:23 schreef Benoît PELISSIER: i use SOGo, with samba4AD and exim/dovecot/sieve and i have the same fonctionality than exchange server ... Benoît Le 12/05/2020 à 18:18, Benny Pedersen a écrit : On 2020-05-12 17:54, Robert Schetterer wrote: At the end the subject question makes no sense... lets play football then :) i just wish that dovecot could be next generation exchange server, no kidding at the current state i get more on using cyrus-* why was dovecot-oy even created ? back to my fully source code compiled problems
Re: Ms Exchange vs dovecot
On 13-05-2020 4:24, Sami Ketola wrote: On 12. May 2020, at 19.18, Benny Pedersen wrote: On 2020-05-12 17:54, Robert Schetterer wrote: At the end the subject question makes no sense... lets play football then :) i just wish that dovecot could be next generation exchange server, no kidding Our parent company Open-Xchange offers one. It's called App Suite. Actually Dovecot Oy no longer exists as we are part of Open-Xchange now. at the current state i get more on using cyrus-* why was dovecot-oy even created ? To provide paid support and consulting. ... and that's pretty end of thread ladies and gentlemen. There's no such thing as a free lunch, people still need to pay their bills at the end of the day and, every so often, some *really* great software such as Dovecot / Sieve blossoms out as a result of that :) -- Adi Pircalabu
Re: Ms Exchange vs dovecot
On 12-05-2020 15:45, Michael Hirmke wrote: Hi Robert, Hi, sorry for top post but short answer is ,there is no exchange without outlook, that is what makes exchange a good "groupware solution", on windows only. So compare it to dovecot makes only small sense. you can use Exchange with pure IMAP clients, too, but then you lose all groupware functionality, because it doesn't offer any DAV interface. But: You can use a few Linux clients, that support EWS (Exchange Web Services) and don't lose groupware functions. I tested Kontact and Evolution - and both worked fine. You can also run e.g. Nextcloud to get carddav, caldav, webdav, etc, etc. -- Rob
Re: Ms Exchange vs dovecot
> On 12. May 2020, at 19.18, Benny Pedersen wrote: > > On 2020-05-12 17:54, Robert Schetterer wrote: > >> At the end the subject question makes no sense... > > lets play football then :) > > i just wish that dovecot could be next generation exchange server, no kidding Our parent company Open-Xchange offers one. It's called App Suite. Actually Dovecot Oy no longer exists as we are part of Open-Xchange now. > > at the current state i get more on using cyrus-* > > why was dovecot-oy even created ? To provide paid support and consulting. Sami
Re: Ms Exchange vs dovecot
Rolling your own MTA/Dovecot and groupware isn't a trivial undertaking.
But I think one of the best examples of a really well done setup is mailcow.
I've recently been tinkering with it, and it does an exceptional job.
While it's not really an exchange replacement I'm quite impressed and feel it
checks a lot of the boxes I have around calendaring/caldav (group and
individual), contacts/carddav and synchronization {activesync equivalent).
(Exchange is kind of a weird product to start with and I'm not sure a goal of
"replacing" it is a worthy one - at least for the needs I'm considering.)
And it uses Dovecot as part of the mix to get there. :)
One might consider it if you're looking to do some of the things that Exchange
does.
-Greg
RSL> On 12-05-2020 15:45, Michael Hirmke wrote:
>> Hi Robert,
>>> Hi, sorry for top post
>>> but short answer is ,there is no exchange without outlook, that is what
>>> makes exchange a good "groupware solution", on windows only.
>>> So compare it to dovecot makes only small sense.
>> you can use Exchange with pure IMAP clients, too, but then you lose all
>> groupware functionality, because it doesn't offer any DAV interface.
>> But: You can use a few Linux clients, that support EWS (Exchange Web
>> Services) and don't lose groupware functions. I tested Kontact and
>> Evolution - and both worked fine.
RSL> You can also run e.g. Nextcloud to get carddav, caldav, webdav, etc, etc.
RSL> --
RSL> Rob
Re: Ms Exchange vs dovecot
i use SOGo, with samba4AD and exim/dovecot/sieve and i have the same fonctionality than exchange server ... Benoît Le 12/05/2020 à 18:18, Benny Pedersen a écrit : On 2020-05-12 17:54, Robert Schetterer wrote: At the end the subject question makes no sense... lets play football then :) i just wish that dovecot could be next generation exchange server, no kidding at the current state i get more on using cyrus-* why was dovecot-oy even created ? back to my fully source code compiled problems <>
Re: Ms Exchange vs dovecot
On 2020-05-12 17:54, Robert Schetterer wrote: At the end the subject question makes no sense... lets play football then :) i just wish that dovecot could be next generation exchange server, no kidding at the current state i get more on using cyrus-* why was dovecot-oy even created ? back to my fully source code compiled problems
Re: Ms Exchange vs dovecot
Am 12.05.20 um 16:45 schrieb Benny Pedersen: On 2020-05-12 16:23, Bobber wrote: On 5/12/20 8:45 AM, Michael Hirmke wrote: Hi Robert, Hi, sorry for top post but short answer is ,there is no exchange without outlook, that is what makes exchange a good "groupware solution", on windows only. So compare it to dovecot makes only small sense. Have you looked at SOGo for a groupware option? https://sogo.nu/ or https://kopano.com/ these are not dovecot, yes i know them all and much more and used them, also exchange, what i tried to say is exchange/outlook are groupware solutions ( it makes no sense to look at it seperate ) hosted on windows servers ,in a windows active dir,you may compare it with other groupware solutions/combinations , but dovecot is a imap/pop3 server in first line, and stand for its own, just like i.e postfix however it may part and/or combined/bundled in/with other groupware solutions. At the end the subject question makes no sense... -- [*] sys4 AG http://sys4.de, +49 (89) 30 90 46 64 Schleißheimer Straße 26/MG, 80333 München Sitz der Gesellschaft: München, Amtsgericht München: HRB 199263 Vorstand: Patrick Ben Koetter, Marc Schiffbauer Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Florian Kirstein
Re: Ms Exchange vs dovecot
On 2020-05-12 16:23, Bobber wrote: On 5/12/20 8:45 AM, Michael Hirmke wrote: Hi Robert, Hi, sorry for top post but short answer is ,there is no exchange without outlook, that is what makes exchange a good "groupware solution", on windows only. So compare it to dovecot makes only small sense. Have you looked at SOGo for a groupware option? https://sogo.nu/ or https://kopano.com/
Re: Ms Exchange vs dovecot
On 5/12/20 8:45 AM, Michael Hirmke wrote: Hi Robert, Hi, sorry for top post but short answer is ,there is no exchange without outlook, that is what makes exchange a good "groupware solution", on windows only. So compare it to dovecot makes only small sense. Have you looked at SOGo for a groupware option? https://sogo.nu/ -- Bob Wooldridge Blog: http://kc0dxf.net/blog/
Re: Ms Exchange vs dovecot
Hi Robert, >Hi, sorry for top post >but short answer is ,there is no exchange without outlook, that is what >makes exchange a good "groupware solution", on windows only. >So compare it to dovecot makes only small sense. you can use Exchange with pure IMAP clients, too, but then you lose all groupware functionality, because it doesn't offer any DAV interface. But: You can use a few Linux clients, that support EWS (Exchange Web Services) and don't lose groupware functions. I tested Kontact and Evolution - and both worked fine. Bye. Michael. -- Michael Hirmke
Re: Ms Exchange vs dovecot
Hi, sorry for top post but short answer is ,there is no exchange without outlook, that is what makes exchange a good "groupware solution", on windows only. So compare it to dovecot makes only small sense. Am 12.05.20 um 13:24 schrieb Michael Hirmke: Hi Marc, How did you decide for the Baikal? I have been testing a long time ago it was easy to install/configure and it was sufficient for my needs. with this apple ccs calendarserver, but it did/does not feel right. I I have no idea about anything regarding the Apple universe. think there were tasks also in this one, but I am not sure anymore. I They are called "Todos", if I get your intention right. had argument with the developers that they should not enforce openssl building, they did not get that they are developers and not sysadmins and should just do development. Their approach made it cumbersome to update the ccs server, exactly the opposite of their goal. I even saw some issues recently that meeting invitation requests were not compatible. Which is an issue with lots of caldav implementations. I have everything in ldap, so that support is necessary. I don't think people use that many exchange features, like with office 80%-90% can just do fine with libre/open office. Granting someone access to folders is mostly it I guess. Ccs was supporting this also if I remember correctly. At work we use nearly everything, Exchange offers. And thats my "fault", because when I was the admin in duty, I tried to get most of our money we had to pay MS. Bye. Michael. -Original Message- From: (Michael Hirmke) [mailto:m...@mike.franken.de] Sent: 09 May 2020 13:36 To: dovecot@dovecot.org Subject: Re: Ms Exchange vs dovecot Hi Marc, I have recently been working/testing with exchange 2016 and started thinking if I should even migrate to this platform. I assume more people here have experience with exchange and this idea. I was an Exchange admin for years and even had an Exchange server at home for about 20 years - just for fun and for testing purposes. Three months ago I migrated to dovecot and baikal - and dropped Exchange completely. This worked flawless, so *I* don't miss Exchange at all. But: You can't compare dovecot with Exchange, because dovecot is a mail server, Exchange is a groupware server. This is why I added a baikal server to my infrastructure. Baikal is a Cal- and CardDAV server, that can replace the calendar und contact parts of Exchange. Nevertheless you loose many features of an Exchange server after migrating to such a setup, so if your users got used to these feature, it wouldn't be possible to drop Exchange. It is only feasable for small environments with few people or in a new environment, where nobody has used an Exchange Server until now. IMHO. This was not your question, it is meant as background information, if you wouldn't already know that. For your environment I can't tell if it is possible to migrate to Exchange, because you didn't write, if you already have an Active Directory in place, which is necessary for Exchange on premise. If you want to use Microsoft's Azure AD and the Exchange cloud services on top, you have to migrate your users to Azure AD. In any case you need an Active Directory for Exchange server. I was wondering if this is possible with a dovecot setup 1. public folder can be implemented with a public mailbox? Yes, but public folders in Exchange are dying for years. They still exist, but are only supported so so. Public mailboxes in dovecot are supported full fledged. 2. authorize users via groups access to mailboxes/folders of the public folder/mailbox. I think I saw ACL's with dovecot, does this compare to 'folder permissions' Not really, but I'm not an expert for permissions on public mailboxes. 3. is it possible with sieve to apply a rule on any mailbox/folder? Thus if I 'drag' a message to a folder, the sieve rule is activated? You can configure a folder to act on incoming mail in the folder properties. I never tested, though, if "incoming" also applies when copying to a folder. Bye. Michael. -- Michael Hirmke -- [*] sys4 AG http://sys4.de, +49 (89) 30 90 46 64 Schleißheimer Straße 26/MG, 80333 München Sitz der Gesellschaft: München, Amtsgericht München: HRB 199263 Vorstand: Patrick Ben Koetter, Marc Schiffbauer Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Florian Kirstein
Re: Ms Exchange vs dovecot
Hi Marc, >How did you decide for the Baikal? I have been testing a long time ago it was easy to install/configure and it was sufficient for my needs. >with this apple ccs calendarserver, but it did/does not feel right. I I have no idea about anything regarding the Apple universe. >think there were tasks also in this one, but I am not sure anymore. I They are called "Todos", if I get your intention right. >had argument with the developers that they should not enforce openssl >building, they did not get that they are developers and not sysadmins >and should just do development. Their approach made it cumbersome to >update the ccs server, exactly the opposite of their goal. I even saw >some issues recently that meeting invitation requests were not >compatible. Which is an issue with lots of caldav implementations. I >have everything in ldap, so that support is necessary. >I don't think people use that many exchange features, like with office >80%-90% can just do fine with libre/open office. Granting someone access >to folders is mostly it I guess. Ccs was supporting this also if I >remember correctly. At work we use nearly everything, Exchange offers. And thats my "fault", because when I was the admin in duty, I tried to get most of our money we had to pay MS. Bye. Michael. >-Original Message- >From: (Michael Hirmke) [mailto:m...@mike.franken.de] >Sent: 09 May 2020 13:36 >To: dovecot@dovecot.org >Subject: Re: Ms Exchange vs dovecot >Hi Marc, >>I have recently been working/testing with exchange 2016 and started >>thinking if I should even migrate to this platform. I assume more >>people here have experience with exchange and this idea. >I was an Exchange admin for years and even had an Exchange server at >home for about 20 years - just for fun and for testing purposes. >Three months ago I migrated to dovecot and baikal - and dropped Exchange >completely. >This worked flawless, so *I* don't miss Exchange at all. >But: >You can't compare dovecot with Exchange, because dovecot is a mail >server, Exchange is a groupware server. This is why I added a baikal >server to my infrastructure. Baikal is a Cal- and CardDAV server, that >can replace the calendar und contact parts of Exchange. >Nevertheless you loose many features of an Exchange server after >migrating to such a setup, so if your users got used to these feature, >it wouldn't be possible to drop Exchange. It is only feasable for small >environments with few people or in a new environment, where nobody has >used an Exchange Server until now. IMHO. >This was not your question, it is meant as background information, if >you wouldn't already know that. >For your environment I can't tell if it is possible to migrate to >Exchange, because you didn't write, if you already have an Active >Directory in place, which is necessary for Exchange on premise. >If you want to use Microsoft's Azure AD and the Exchange cloud services >on top, you have to migrate your users to Azure AD. In any case you need >an Active Directory for Exchange server. >>I was wondering if this is possible with a dovecot setup >> 1. public folder can be implemented with a public mailbox? >Yes, but public folders in Exchange are dying for years. >They still exist, but are only supported so so. >Public mailboxes in dovecot are supported full fledged. >> 2. authorize users via groups access to mailboxes/folders of the >>public folder/mailbox. I think I saw ACL's with dovecot, does this >>compare to 'folder permissions' >Not really, but I'm not an expert for permissions on public mailboxes. >> 3. is it possible with sieve to apply a rule on any mailbox/folder? >>Thus if I 'drag' a message to a folder, the sieve rule is activated? >You can configure a folder to act on incoming mail in the folder >properties. I never tested, though, if "incoming" also applies when >copying to a folder. >Bye. >Michael. >-- >Michael Hirmke -- Michael Hirmke
RE: Ms Exchange vs dovecot
How did you decide for the Baikal? I have been testing a long time ago with this apple ccs calendarserver, but it did/does not feel right. I think there were tasks also in this one, but I am not sure anymore. I had argument with the developers that they should not enforce openssl building, they did not get that they are developers and not sysadmins and should just do development. Their approach made it cumbersome to update the ccs server, exactly the opposite of their goal. I even saw some issues recently that meeting invitation requests were not compatible. Which is an issue with lots of caldav implementations. I have everything in ldap, so that support is necessary. I don't think people use that many exchange features, like with office 80%-90% can just do fine with libre/open office. Granting someone access to folders is mostly it I guess. Ccs was supporting this also if I remember correctly. -Original Message- From: (Michael Hirmke) [mailto:m...@mike.franken.de] Sent: 09 May 2020 13:36 To: dovecot@dovecot.org Subject: Re: Ms Exchange vs dovecot Hi Marc, >I have recently been working/testing with exchange 2016 and started >thinking if I should even migrate to this platform. I assume more >people here have experience with exchange and this idea. I was an Exchange admin for years and even had an Exchange server at home for about 20 years - just for fun and for testing purposes. Three months ago I migrated to dovecot and baikal - and dropped Exchange completely. This worked flawless, so *I* don't miss Exchange at all. But: You can't compare dovecot with Exchange, because dovecot is a mail server, Exchange is a groupware server. This is why I added a baikal server to my infrastructure. Baikal is a Cal- and CardDAV server, that can replace the calendar und contact parts of Exchange. Nevertheless you loose many features of an Exchange server after migrating to such a setup, so if your users got used to these feature, it wouldn't be possible to drop Exchange. It is only feasable for small environments with few people or in a new environment, where nobody has used an Exchange Server until now. IMHO. This was not your question, it is meant as background information, if you wouldn't already know that. For your environment I can't tell if it is possible to migrate to Exchange, because you didn't write, if you already have an Active Directory in place, which is necessary for Exchange on premise. If you want to use Microsoft's Azure AD and the Exchange cloud services on top, you have to migrate your users to Azure AD. In any case you need an Active Directory for Exchange server. >I was wondering if this is possible with a dovecot setup > 1. public folder can be implemented with a public mailbox? Yes, but public folders in Exchange are dying for years. They still exist, but are only supported so so. Public mailboxes in dovecot are supported full fledged. > 2. authorize users via groups access to mailboxes/folders of the >public folder/mailbox. I think I saw ACL's with dovecot, does this >compare to 'folder permissions' Not really, but I'm not an expert for permissions on public mailboxes. > 3. is it possible with sieve to apply a rule on any mailbox/folder? >Thus if I 'drag' a message to a folder, the sieve rule is activated? You can configure a folder to act on incoming mail in the folder properties. I never tested, though, if "incoming" also applies when copying to a folder. Bye. Michael. -- Michael Hirmke
RE: Ms Exchange vs dovecot
> > >Thank you, Michael, for an intelligent and reasoned response. The last thing this forum needs are the rantings of some anarchist with dreams of socialism. > Yes indeed, it seems to be very difficult to stay on topic. >In any event, I question why the OP is interested in Exchange 2016? It has already been surpassed by MS Exchange 2019. I would seriously question the wisdom of using any outdated software, especially if it happens to be in a 'mission-critical' position. Perhaps this URL might be of interest to the OP. > You never heard of LTS etc? You are such idiot that is waiting in front of the apple store, when a new version out? > >I do agree that DOVECOT != MS EXCHANGE. They are two very different animals. Yes, nobody has questioned this. Do you also agree that a pigeon is not a snake? We can continue for quite a while like this. >I have never liked having to use multiple applications to achieve the same results I can with an 'all-in-one,' This is the future. Everything is going to be microservices and distributed (that scales ;)). This all-in-one is nice for people who click next-next-next. All these companies that try to do everything are not speciliazed in any specific feature. Example how microsoft fucks up in this area with outlook. Save send message in folder that is not inbox: works on imap folders, not on public folder not on shared mailbox (wtf) Categories: not working on imap. public folder contacts: do not sync to mobile. The whole exchange server looks like a mess, with all this trace logging on. For the majority you cannot even specify logging levels, let alone do remote logging. Why all proprietary shit? Just offer out of the box card/caldav access. 10 years from now exchange is dead.
Re: Ms Exchange vs dovecot
On 09 May 2020 13:36:00 +0200, Michael Hirmke stated: >Hi Marc, > >>I have recently been working/testing with exchange 2016 and started >>thinking if I should even migrate to this platform. I assume more >>people here have experience with exchange and this idea. > >I was an Exchange admin for years and even had an Exchange server at >home for about 20 years - just for fun and for testing purposes. >Three months ago I migrated to dovecot and baikal - and dropped >Exchange completely. >This worked flawless, so *I* don't miss Exchange at all. > >But: > >You can't compare dovecot with Exchange, because dovecot is a mail >server, Exchange is a groupware server. This is why I added a baikal >server to my infrastructure. Baikal is a Cal- and CardDAV server, that >can replace the calendar und contact parts of Exchange. >Nevertheless you loose many features of an Exchange server after >migrating to such a setup, so if your users got used to these feature, >it wouldn't be possible to drop Exchange. It is only feasable for small >environments with few people or in a new environment, where nobody has >used an Exchange Server until now. IMHO. >This was not your question, it is meant as background information, if >you wouldn't already know that. > >For your environment I can't tell if it is possible to migrate to >Exchange, because you didn't write, if you already have an Active >Directory in place, which is necessary for Exchange on premise. >If you want to use Microsoft's Azure AD and the Exchange cloud services >on top, you have to migrate your users to Azure AD. In any case you >need an Active Directory for Exchange server. > >>I was wondering if this is possible with a dovecot setup > >> 1. public folder can be implemented with a public mailbox? > >Yes, but public folders in Exchange are dying for years. >They still exist, but are only supported so so. >Public mailboxes in dovecot are supported full fledged. > >> 2. authorize users via groups access to mailboxes/folders of the >> public >>folder/mailbox. I think I saw ACL's with dovecot, does this compare to >>'folder permissions' > >Not really, but I'm not an expert for permissions on public mailboxes. > >> 3. is it possible with sieve to apply a rule on any mailbox/folder? >>Thus if I 'drag' a message to a folder, the sieve rule is activated? > >You can configure a folder to act on incoming mail in the folder >properties. I never tested, though, if "incoming" also applies when >copying to a folder. > >Bye. >Michael. Thank you, Michael, for an intelligent and reasoned response. The last thing this forum needs are the rantings of some anarchist with dreams of socialism. In any event, I question why the OP is interested in Exchange 2016? It has already been surpassed by MS Exchange 2019. I would seriously question the wisdom of using any outdated software, especially if it happens to be in a 'mission-critical' position. Perhaps this URL might be of interest to the OP. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/Exchange/new-features/new-features?view=exchserver-2019 I do agree that DOVECOT != MS EXCHANGE. They are two very different animals. I have never liked having to use multiple applications to achieve the same results I can with an 'all-in-one,' but that is just my personal preference. For the record, I do use 'dovecot' for my home network. Using MS Exchange would be massive overkill. -- Jerry pgpkBcBBK0Pc2.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Ms Exchange vs dovecot
Hi Marc, >I have recently been working/testing with exchange 2016 and started >thinking if I should even migrate to this platform. I assume more people >here have experience with exchange and this idea. I was an Exchange admin for years and even had an Exchange server at home for about 20 years - just for fun and for testing purposes. Three months ago I migrated to dovecot and baikal - and dropped Exchange completely. This worked flawless, so *I* don't miss Exchange at all. But: You can't compare dovecot with Exchange, because dovecot is a mail server, Exchange is a groupware server. This is why I added a baikal server to my infrastructure. Baikal is a Cal- and CardDAV server, that can replace the calendar und contact parts of Exchange. Nevertheless you loose many features of an Exchange server after migrating to such a setup, so if your users got used to these feature, it wouldn't be possible to drop Exchange. It is only feasable for small environments with few people or in a new environment, where nobody has used an Exchange Server until now. IMHO. This was not your question, it is meant as background information, if you wouldn't already know that. For your environment I can't tell if it is possible to migrate to Exchange, because you didn't write, if you already have an Active Directory in place, which is necessary for Exchange on premise. If you want to use Microsoft's Azure AD and the Exchange cloud services on top, you have to migrate your users to Azure AD. In any case you need an Active Directory for Exchange server. >I was wondering if this is possible with a dovecot setup > 1. public folder can be implemented with a public mailbox? Yes, but public folders in Exchange are dying for years. They still exist, but are only supported so so. Public mailboxes in dovecot are supported full fledged. > 2. authorize users via groups access to mailboxes/folders of the public >folder/mailbox. I think I saw ACL's with dovecot, does this compare to >'folder permissions' Not really, but I'm not an expert for permissions on public mailboxes. > 3. is it possible with sieve to apply a rule on any mailbox/folder? >Thus if I 'drag' a message to a folder, the sieve rule is activated? You can configure a folder to act on incoming mail in the folder properties. I never tested, though, if "incoming" also applies when copying to a folder. Bye. Michael. -- Michael Hirmke
RE: Ms Exchange vs dovecot
On May 9, 2020 1:21:09 PM GMT+02:00, Marc Roos wrote: > > >I was wondering about the sieve rules, because I thought they were >executed during mail delivery in the lmtp process. You can also 'guess' > >this a bit from syntax of the rules or the single file they are stored >in. Thus if you 'drag' messages between folders, they are not executed. > There is IMAP sieve that can execute a sieve script after an IMAP event. See https://wiki.dovecot.org/Pigeonhole/Sieve/Plugins/IMAPSieve > >Off topic: >I know Exchange is a different solution. What I think is stupid, is >that >they store mail in a database still. Making it difficult to scale. (I >wonder if they have such solution in their cloud) Better would be per >user of course. I also do not like that they try and push users to >their >cloud with all this 365 advertising in the on premises solution. Sooner > >or later on premises will be gone. > >Public folder is not removed, they were thinking of it, and community >complained (afaik), so they kept it, still there in 2019. (although >changed) > > > > >-Original Message- >From: MIhai Badici [mailto:mi...@badici.ro] >Sent: 09 May 2020 12:32 >To: dovecot@dovecot.org >Subject: Re: Ms Exchange vs dovecot > >First of all, Exchange is a complete solution. Dovecot is a imap/pop3 >server ( a good one, sure... ) > >So replacing exchange means to find an integrated solution. > >about the questions: public folder was removed in exchange. IMHO they >made the right choice :) > >There is a different thing, need different tools and different client >app. You can create shared mailboxes ( i think it's a little demand for > >that, but yes) > >Sieve rules should work ( never tried actually) > >I can see a need for an integration with folders only when you work >with >webmail (like roundcube) . In this scenario ( a liitle bit like gmail) > >is good to see the folders and attach them ( or save) > >I use the kolab plugins for roundcube and there is a sort of >integration >between the chwala ( files plugin) and any webdav capable file server ( > >I use owncloud/nextcloud). So you can share files, edit etc using >owncloud but also attach them and save them from webmail. You can find >a >lot of plugins in owncloud to deal with files, even editing with >onlyoffice . IMHO, that's the way, there is no need to create a client >app to deal with all; maybe other people will not agree but... > > > >On 5/9/20 1:07 PM, Marc Roos wrote: >> >> My, my, did not expect this discussion. It is our own fault we are >> stuck with google and microsoft monopolies. If small companies would >> combine effort (resources and cash) and would not reinvent/create the > >> wheel constantly on our own little islands, we would have much better > >> products. So respect for the dovecot team. >> >> The reason I am asking is that, the public folder solution is not as >> it was in 2000. Exchange 2016+ do not support CDO etc. Nobody >> transitioned between the two? >> >> 1. public folder can be implemented with a public mailbox? >> >> 2. authorize users via groups access to mailboxes/folders of the >> public folder/mailbox. I think I saw ACL's with dovecot, does this >> compare to 'folder permissions' >> >> 3. is it possible with sieve to apply a rule on any mailbox/folder? >> Thus if I 'drag' a message to a folder, the sieve rule is activated? >> >> -- Christian Kivalo
RE: Ms Exchange vs dovecot
I was wondering about the sieve rules, because I thought they were executed during mail delivery in the lmtp process. You can also 'guess' this a bit from syntax of the rules or the single file they are stored in. Thus if you 'drag' messages between folders, they are not executed. Off topic: I know Exchange is a different solution. What I think is stupid, is that they store mail in a database still. Making it difficult to scale. (I wonder if they have such solution in their cloud) Better would be per user of course. I also do not like that they try and push users to their cloud with all this 365 advertising in the on premises solution. Sooner or later on premises will be gone. Public folder is not removed, they were thinking of it, and community complained (afaik), so they kept it, still there in 2019. (although changed) -Original Message- From: MIhai Badici [mailto:mi...@badici.ro] Sent: 09 May 2020 12:32 To: dovecot@dovecot.org Subject: Re: Ms Exchange vs dovecot First of all, Exchange is a complete solution. Dovecot is a imap/pop3 server ( a good one, sure... ) So replacing exchange means to find an integrated solution. about the questions: public folder was removed in exchange. IMHO they made the right choice :) There is a different thing, need different tools and different client app. You can create shared mailboxes ( i think it's a little demand for that, but yes) Sieve rules should work ( never tried actually) I can see a need for an integration with folders only when you work with webmail (like roundcube) . In this scenario ( a liitle bit like gmail) is good to see the folders and attach them ( or save) I use the kolab plugins for roundcube and there is a sort of integration between the chwala ( files plugin) and any webdav capable file server ( I use owncloud/nextcloud). So you can share files, edit etc using owncloud but also attach them and save them from webmail. You can find a lot of plugins in owncloud to deal with files, even editing with onlyoffice . IMHO, that's the way, there is no need to create a client app to deal with all; maybe other people will not agree but... On 5/9/20 1:07 PM, Marc Roos wrote: > > My, my, did not expect this discussion. It is our own fault we are > stuck with google and microsoft monopolies. If small companies would > combine effort (resources and cash) and would not reinvent/create the > wheel constantly on our own little islands, we would have much better > products. So respect for the dovecot team. > > The reason I am asking is that, the public folder solution is not as > it was in 2000. Exchange 2016+ do not support CDO etc. Nobody > transitioned between the two? > > 1. public folder can be implemented with a public mailbox? > > 2. authorize users via groups access to mailboxes/folders of the > public folder/mailbox. I think I saw ACL's with dovecot, does this > compare to 'folder permissions' > > 3. is it possible with sieve to apply a rule on any mailbox/folder? > Thus if I 'drag' a message to a folder, the sieve rule is activated? > >
Re: Ms Exchange vs dovecot
First of all, Exchange is a complete solution. Dovecot is a imap/pop3 server ( a good one, sure... ) So replacing exchange means to find an integrated solution. about the questions: public folder was removed in exchange. IMHO they made the right choice :) There is a different thing, need different tools and different client app. You can create shared mailboxes ( i think it's a little demand for that, but yes) Sieve rules should work ( never tried actually) I can see a need for an integration with folders only when you work with webmail (like roundcube) . In this scenario ( a liitle bit like gmail) is good to see the folders and attach them ( or save) I use the kolab plugins for roundcube and there is a sort of integration between the chwala ( files plugin) and any webdav capable file server ( I use owncloud/nextcloud). So you can share files, edit etc using owncloud but also attach them and save them from webmail. You can find a lot of plugins in owncloud to deal with files, even editing with onlyoffice . IMHO, that's the way, there is no need to create a client app to deal with all; maybe other people will not agree but... On 5/9/20 1:07 PM, Marc Roos wrote: My, my, did not expect this discussion. It is our own fault we are stuck with google and microsoft monopolies. If small companies would combine effort (resources and cash) and would not reinvent/create the wheel constantly on our own little islands, we would have much better products. So respect for the dovecot team. The reason I am asking is that, the public folder solution is not as it was in 2000. Exchange 2016+ do not support CDO etc. Nobody transitioned between the two? 1. public folder can be implemented with a public mailbox? 2. authorize users via groups access to mailboxes/folders of the public folder/mailbox. I think I saw ACL's with dovecot, does this compare to 'folder permissions' 3. is it possible with sieve to apply a rule on any mailbox/folder? Thus if I 'drag' a message to a folder, the sieve rule is activated?
RE: Ms Exchange vs dovecot
My, my, did not expect this discussion. It is our own fault we are stuck with google and microsoft monopolies. If small companies would combine effort (resources and cash) and would not reinvent/create the wheel constantly on our own little islands, we would have much better products. So respect for the dovecot team. The reason I am asking is that, the public folder solution is not as it was in 2000. Exchange 2016+ do not support CDO etc. Nobody transitioned between the two? 1. public folder can be implemented with a public mailbox? 2. authorize users via groups access to mailboxes/folders of the public folder/mailbox. I think I saw ACL's with dovecot, does this compare to 'folder permissions' 3. is it possible with sieve to apply a rule on any mailbox/folder? Thus if I 'drag' a message to a folder, the sieve rule is activated?
Re: Ms Exchange vs dovecot
On 08 May 2020, at 19:02, Eric Broch wrote: > Microsoft and Bill Gates are like inoperable tumors. Your outdated knee-jerking is entirely off-topic. Please find a political list if you want to continue your screed. -- The way I see it, the longer I put it off, the better it'll end up being. Heck, school doesn't start for another 43 minutes.
Re: Ms Exchange vs dovecot
The U.S. government is lawless and the Cloud Act is meaningless, like U.S. Constitution. The laws are written to placate the masses, to delude U.S. citizens into thinking they're still free. There is no privacy in the United States and all major corporations, the courts, and the alphabet agencies are in bed together. Assume the worst about them. Microsoft and Bill Gates are like inoperable tumors. Eric On 5/8/2020 4:49 PM, Peter wrote: Am 08.05.20 um 23:52 schrieb Bernd Petrovitsch: I assume you are aware of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_Act so using software from (heavily) US-based companies implies that all data (controlled by said companies) will - sooner or later - end up in the databases of US-3-letter-organizations. So forget about GDPR compliance with such software providers. Curiously, the linked wiki page says to the contrary, quote: The CLOUD Act […] provides mechanisms for the companies or the courts to reject or challenge these [warrants by US-3-letter-organizations] if they believe the request violates the privacy rights of the foreign country the data is stored in.
Re: Ms Exchange vs dovecot
Am 08.05.20 um 23:52 schrieb Bernd Petrovitsch: I assume you are aware of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_Act so using software from (heavily) US-based companies implies that all data (controlled by said companies) will - sooner or later - end up in the databases of US-3-letter-organizations. So forget about GDPR compliance with such software providers. Curiously, the linked wiki page says to the contrary, quote: The CLOUD Act […] provides mechanisms for the companies or the courts to reject or challenge these [warrants by US-3-letter-organizations] if they believe the request violates the privacy rights of the foreign country the data is stored in. -- peter
Re: Ms Exchange vs dovecot
On Fri, 2020-05-08 at 22:17 +0200, Marc Roos wrote: > I have recently been working/testing with exchange 2016 and started > thinking if I should even migrate to this platform. I assume more people [...] I assume you are aware of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_Act so using software from (heavily) US-based companies implies that all data (controlled by said companies) will - sooner or later - end up in the databases of US-3-letter-organizations. So forget about GDPR compliance with such software providers. MfG, Bernd -- Bernd Petrovitsch Email : be...@petrovitsch.priv.at There is no cloud, just other people computers. - FSFE LUGA : http://www.luga.at
