Re: [DQSD-Users] Odd Math Error
If the binary arithmetic/floating point is a problem, use gg in the taskbar before the equation to send it to the Google calculator which does behave like a calculator: In the taskbar: gg 2156737.51 - 16123.81 produces: http://www.google.com/search?hl=&cat=&meta=&num=&ie=utf-8&q=2156737.51+-+16123.81 which will display: 2 156 737.51 - 16 123.81 = 2 140 613.7 Fredric From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Charlie Russel Sent: Thu 5/17/2007 10:53 PM To: DQSD users mailing list Subject: Re: [DQSD-Users] Odd Math Error It's all about binary arithmetic. Spreadsheets have traditionally had this same issue. There are workarounds for it, but there's a substantial performance penalty and in most cases it's simply not enough to worry about. The number is always only off by one bit at the limit of your precision. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:dqsd-users- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kim Gräsman > Sent: May-17-07 10:09 PM > To: DQSD users mailing list > Subject: Re: [DQSD-Users] Odd Math Error > > Hi Richard, > > > Uhhh that doesnt sound right to me. I subtracted 3 different values > > from another value and got the same result twice. > > Oops, I didn't see your results were identical for the first two cases. > I tried it here; > > 2156737.51 - 16123.81 => 2140613.67 > 2156737.51 - 16123.83 => 2140613.679997 <-- Note: .6_7_999... > 2156737.51 - 16123.82 => 2140613.69 > > Could you try it again to make sure you transcribed the values correctly? > > > Also two of the results are flat out wrong. > > Right, but they're pretty close to correct, which is what you get with > floating-point, if I understand things correctly. > > > I could understand if I had used some kind of hokey notation but its > > a straight up math problem X-Y. When performed in a calculator > > application I dont get that result? > > The calculator (at least the one in Windows) probably doesn't use > floating-point to store its numbers, but again, I'm a bit out of my > depth here. > > Cheers, > - Kim > > - > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ > ___ > To unsubscribe visit: > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dqsd-users > DQSD-Users@lists.sourceforge.net > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=8601 - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ To unsubscribe visit: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dqsd-users DQSD-Users@lists.sourceforge.net http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=8601 <>- This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/___ To unsubscribe visit: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dqsd-users DQSD-Users@lists.sourceforge.net http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=8601
Re: [DQSD-Users] Odd Math Error
It's all about binary arithmetic. Spreadsheets have traditionally had this same issue. There are workarounds for it, but there's a substantial performance penalty and in most cases it's simply not enough to worry about. The number is always only off by one bit at the limit of your precision. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:dqsd-users- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kim Gräsman > Sent: May-17-07 10:09 PM > To: DQSD users mailing list > Subject: Re: [DQSD-Users] Odd Math Error > > Hi Richard, > > > Uhhh that doesnt sound right to me. I subtracted 3 different values > > from another value and got the same result twice. > > Oops, I didn't see your results were identical for the first two cases. > I tried it here; > > 2156737.51 - 16123.81 => 2140613.67 > 2156737.51 - 16123.83 => 2140613.679997 <-- Note: .6_7_999... > 2156737.51 - 16123.82 => 2140613.69 > > Could you try it again to make sure you transcribed the values correctly? > > > Also two of the results are flat out wrong. > > Right, but they're pretty close to correct, which is what you get with > floating-point, if I understand things correctly. > > > I could understand if I had used some kind of hokey notation but its > > a straight up math problem X-Y. When performed in a calculator > > application I dont get that result? > > The calculator (at least the one in Windows) probably doesn't use > floating-point to store its numbers, but again, I'm a bit out of my > depth here. > > Cheers, > - Kim > > - > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ > ___ > To unsubscribe visit: > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dqsd-users > DQSD-Users@lists.sourceforge.net > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=8601 - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ To unsubscribe visit: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dqsd-users DQSD-Users@lists.sourceforge.net http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=8601
Re: [DQSD-Users] Odd Math Error
Hi Richard, > Uhhh that doesnt sound right to me. I subtracted 3 different values > from another value and got the same result twice. Oops, I didn't see your results were identical for the first two cases. I tried it here; 2156737.51 - 16123.81 => 2140613.67 2156737.51 - 16123.83 => 2140613.679997 <-- Note: .6_7_999... 2156737.51 - 16123.82 => 2140613.69 Could you try it again to make sure you transcribed the values correctly? > Also two of the results are flat out wrong. Right, but they're pretty close to correct, which is what you get with floating-point, if I understand things correctly. > I could understand if I had used some kind of hokey notation but its > a straight up math problem X-Y. When performed in a calculator > application I dont get that result? The calculator (at least the one in Windows) probably doesn't use floating-point to store its numbers, but again, I'm a bit out of my depth here. Cheers, - Kim - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ To unsubscribe visit: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dqsd-users DQSD-Users@lists.sourceforge.net http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=8601
Re: [DQSD-Users] cut & paste & firefox error
Tom, Bill, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > On Thu, 17 May 2007 23:08:08 +0100, you [Tom Corcoran] wrote: > > }Note I got it after 2 clean installs on 2 different machines. anyone > }using this version successfully with the latest Firefox? > > Sorry to have to tell you that I am having no problems with either > Firefox (ver 2.0.0.3) nor with ctl-v pasting into the taskbar with > DQSD (ver 4.0.0.3). Yep, works fine here as well on the same setup. There were problems with the keyboard accelerators if the pre-4.0 DLL had not been successfully unregistered -- could that be the case for you? - Kim - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ To unsubscribe visit: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dqsd-users DQSD-Users@lists.sourceforge.net http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=8601
Re: [DQSD-Users] cut & paste & firefox error
Hi Tom, On Thu, 17 May 2007 23:08:08 +0100, you [Tom Corcoran] wrote: }Note I got it after 2 clean installs on 2 different machines. anyone }using this version successfully with the latest Firefox? Sorry to have to tell you that I am having no problems with either Firefox (ver 2.0.0.3) nor with ctl-v pasting into the taskbar with DQSD (ver 4.0.0.3). -- Bill - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ To unsubscribe visit: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dqsd-users DQSD-Users@lists.sourceforge.net http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=8601
[DQSD-Users] cut & paste & firefox error
Another thing I notice with the new version is, as reported by Brain Dunsworth in March, I can no longer paste (ctrl+V or the old trusty ctrl+ins) into the taskbar. Already in the last day I've done it many times to be frustrated and realise how much I do this. Is there a way to get this working? It would be a shame if that functionality was gone now. Interesting to read that Richard Ahlquist is also getting the ff blowup. Note I got it after 2 clean installs on 2 different machines. anyone using this version successfully with the latest Firefox? Thanks, Tom. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ To unsubscribe visit: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dqsd-users DQSD-Users@lists.sourceforge.net http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=8601
Re: [DQSD-Users] Odd Math Error
Kim, Uhhh that doesnt sound right to me. I subtracted 3 different values from another value and got the same result twice. Also two of the results are flat out wrong. I could understand if I had used some kind of hokey notation but its a straight up math problem X-Y. When performed in a calculator application I dont get that result? On 5/17/07, Kim Gräsman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi Richard, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Had something really screwy happen today, had to do some math so I dropped > into my DQSD bar and typed; > > 2156737.51 - 16123.81 > > and it gives me the result; > > 2140613.67 > WOW! That's how floating-point arithmetic works on most PCs. I can never describe it without at least confusing accuracy and precision, so I suggest you Google for details :-) http://www.google.com/search?q=floating-point+arithmetic I really have a hard time understanding the details myself, but I know it's how it's supposed to be, even if it's disconcerting. Cheers, - Kim - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ To unsubscribe visit: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dqsd-users DQSD-Users@lists.sourceforge.net http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=8601 -- Richard Ahlquist Systems Analyst Webmaster http://www.patentlystupid.com http://www.pcsites.com http://www.unlimitedbs.com - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/___ To unsubscribe visit: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dqsd-users DQSD-Users@lists.sourceforge.net http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=8601
Re: [DQSD-Users] Odd Math Error
Hi Richard, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Had something really screwy happen today, had to do some math so I dropped > into my DQSD bar and typed; > > 2156737.51 - 16123.81 > > and it gives me the result; > > 2140613.67 > WOW! That's how floating-point arithmetic works on most PCs. I can never describe it without at least confusing accuracy and precision, so I suggest you Google for details :-) http://www.google.com/search?q=floating-point+arithmetic I really have a hard time understanding the details myself, but I know it's how it's supposed to be, even if it's disconcerting. Cheers, - Kim - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ To unsubscribe visit: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dqsd-users DQSD-Users@lists.sourceforge.net http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=8601
[DQSD-Users] Odd Math Error
Had something really screwy happen today, had to do some math so I dropped into my DQSD bar and typed; 2156737.51 - 16123.81 and it gives me the result; 2140613.67 WOW! ok, so lets try 2156737.51 - 16123.83 gives me the result; 2140613.67 err thats just weird, how bout 2156737.51 - 16123.82 nets; 2140613.69 Er thats just screwy and scary because ufortunatley I've trusted the math done in DQSD many times... p.s. I am getting the same error as TomCorcoran on launching with FF closed. -- Richard Ahlquist Systems Analyst Webmaster http://www.patentlystupid.com - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/___ To unsubscribe visit: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dqsd-users DQSD-Users@lists.sourceforge.net http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=8601
