[DX-CHAT] Re:Kosova
China, Russia, ARRL against. Free world in favor. Whose the patsies guys. David W1GDQ [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) **Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom000301) Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
[DX-CHAT] Re: Kosova
On Mar 22, 2008, at 9:05 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: China, Russia, ARRL against. Free world in favor. Whose the patsies guys. David W1GDQ David, That really is an unfair slap at ARRL, which is neither FOR nor AGAINST Kosova. Very wisely, ARRL set up specific non-amateur criteria which must be met by any new DXCC Entity, so that the decision is not reached by somebody's personal or political opinion (which someone else disagrees with, etc, etc). If you think those criteria are wrong, tell your ARRL Director. In the meantime ARRL is - correctly - on hold. CQ is a separate commercial organization, and can do whatever it wants for scoring in the contests which it owns. 73, John, NT5C. Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
[DX-CHAT] FJ/OH2AM received
FJ/OH2AM QSL for St. Barthelemy received in the mail today. Garth, KW4MM Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org dogs_03c.gif
[DX-CHAT] Re: [DX-NEWS] Re: Kosova
Jim: Now we have to hear from the ARRL DXCC folks on their position on this. An article I read on this said that licenses would be officially available for issue from April 14 on, so that might mean that any operatiion using the E7 call will not be official until after that date?? ARRL DXCC needs to state their position. John Owens - N7TK -- Original message -- From: Jim Reisert AD1C [EMAIL PROTECTED] From the CQ Newsroom... Kosovo Added to CQ DX Awards Country List Effective 2/17/08 (Hicksville, NY) March 21, 2008 -- Kosovo is being added to the list of countries and territories recognized for CQ DX awards, effective immediately, CQ DX Awards Manager Billy Williams, N4UF, announced today. Verifications for contacts made on or after February 17, 2008 are acceptable for CQ DX Award credit. CQ DX Honor Roll members with 335 or more credits should update by May 31st for highest placement in Honor Roll listings. The new 339 entity maximum will appear on CQ DX Honor Rolls to be prepared in early June. CQ DX Honor Roll listings prepared in early April will be based on a 338 maximum count. All Kosovo contacts will count for field KN on applications for the CQ DX Field Award. Kosovo's status has been the subject of some controversy in the amateur radio community as well as the world community, as the ARRL declared that special operations from there on February 17 will count as Serbia, not Kosovo, in terms of DXCC credit. The United States and many European countries immediately recognized Kosovo's independence. However, Russia and China are opposed to it and Russia has threatened to veto any U.N. action to recognize Kosovo as an independent nation. We are aware that the ARRL has not yet added Kosovo to the DXCC list, explained CQ magazine Editor Rich Moseson, W2VU. The League says it is waiting for Kosovo to become a member state of the United Nations or be issued a callsign block by the International Telecommunications Union (ITU), a U.N. agency. However, because of geopolitical issues far beyond the realm of amateur radio, it is unlikely that the United Nations or the ITU will act on Kosovo in the near future, even though the United States and many other countries have granted it recognition. Because it is CQ's policy to grant credit for contacts with 'new' entities as of the date that their status changes, Moseson continued, we have decided not to wait for U.N. action, but to follow the lead of the United States and other countries that have recognized Kosovo's independence, and to grant credit for contacts made with stations in Kosovo as of its independence day, February 17, 2008. (NOTE: This action does not affect the country list for the CQ WW DX Contest. CQWW rules state that its country list is composed of those entities on the DXCC list and the WAE (Worked All Europe) award list. If the WAE Committee decides to add Kosovo to its list, it will automatically be added to the CQWW list.) -- Jim Reisert AD1C/Ø, , http://www.ad1c.us -- Archives http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] THE DXR is sponsored by the North Jersey DX Association. Please visit our website: http://www.njdxa.org/index.php To subscribe/unsubscribe, please send request to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and allow a few hours for acknowledgement -- Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] Re: [DX-NEWS] Re: Kosova
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jim: Now we have to hear from the ARRL DXCC folks on their position on this. An article I read on this said that licenses would be officially available for issue from April 14 on, so that might mean that any operatiion using the E7 call will not be official until after that date?? ARRL DXCC needs to state their position. John Owens - N7TK John, You have mixed up things. E7 is new prefix for Bosnia and Herzegovina which was officially launched yesterday at 2300UTC (today, local time). At this moment only two and three letter licenses were issued and end date for submitting one letter applications is 14. April 2008... At the same time T9 callsigns are valid until changed into E7 or until end of 2008. All of this is happening in Bosnia and Herzegovina and has nothing to do with Kosovo. 73's Boris E73TW (ex. T93Y) -- Boris Knezovic E73TW, P.O. Box 59, Sarajevo BA-71000, Bosnia and Herzegovina E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] WEB Page: http://www.t93y.com -- Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
RE: [DX-CHAT] Re:Kosova
Gerry, The more I think about it, the more I agree with your position. I think if I had the power to make one change, at this point, it would be to revert to the original wording of the DXCC-2000 rules regarding IARU societies. Or failing that, at least putting that rule back on the books. While the current criteria for the 3rd choice is fine in and of itself, as we can see here, the Rule of Unintended Consequences shows us that there are always going to be situations that the rules don't quite cover. Now, IF that rule were reinstated (which, I know, is not going to happen, but let's just what if? here a moment), there's still no guarantee that a national amateur radio society for Kosova would be admitted to the IARU. But that's poltics of another sort. The bottom line remains that, in this and in several other situations, the operators knew or should have known what the rules are when they began planning and began operating. Should they choose to operate in situations where DXCC approval is uncertain or unlikely, the onus on that should be on the operators, not on the DXCC Desk. To constantly demand that the DXCC rules change, virtually on a moments notice, to accomodate situations where the operators could (and probably should) have known they wouldn't meet the criteria, is unfair to the DXCC and everyone involved in it, and will only result in a devauled program mired in chaos. Oh, what a tangled web we weave... 73 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Gerry Hohn Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 2:13 PM To: dx-chat@njdxa.org Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] Re:Kosova There are clear rules that cover this situation. There is no need for yet another rule that further devalues the DXCC program to satisfy political desires. Gerry VE6LB - Original Message - From: Ron Notarius W3WN To: dx-chat@njdxa.org Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 11:26 AM Subject: RE: [DX-CHAT] Re:Kosova Pardon me? The ARRL is neither for nor against Kosova's independance. The DXCC desk is simply applying the rules as they currently exist. Unwarranted smears against the organization are not going to help matters any, if you're inclined to try and change their minds on the matter. Funny that you should mention this today. In today's mail came my card from FJ/OH2AM. Within the letter, besides the usual fillers for The Daily DX and NCDXF was a nice, slick, preprinted post card, already addressed to my Division Director -- in short, a form letter that all I had to do was sign stamp drop in the mail -- requesting a change in the DXCC rules retroactive to February 17, which (not coincidentally, I'm sure) would make the operation a few weeks back count. This troubles me on several levels. I don't like it in general when someone, even people I know and respect, try to do an end-run around the rules that were in place at the time of the operation. I don't like it when someone tries to influence an organization with mass-mailings like this, which sometimes work, but sometimes backfire. What I dislike the most, though, are these continued calls for a quick-fix to the rules we've had in place for close to 10 years. Overall, the current DXCC rules (while not perfect -- I still disagree about not placing new deleted entities on the existing deleted list) are fair, baqlanced, and devoid of many of the unintended loopholes that existed in the past. The irony is that the rules originally had a way around the UN / ITU recognition. The existance of an IARU society. Now, I always thought that rule was simply a way to make certain that a few entities (Hong Kong and Macao specifically) to stay on the list after their political situation changed. But it has been pointed out to me, by someone who was very involved in the drafting and updating of the rules, that this was also intended to be used to cover political situations similar to Kosova. [Why did the rule get dropped? Do an internet search on the original Swain's expedition. I can't say more about that, or the rule that replaced it (which did get Swain's put on the list after all) without revealing some of my sources; I should not speak for them or put them further on the spot.] Bottom line is that the rules of unintended consequences have led to this situation. Yet, in all of the clamor to add Kosova to the list, no one seems to be able to suggest HOW to do it, in a fair way. Just THAT it should (or shouldn't) be done. Rather than try to put pressure on the DXCC desk, directly or indirectly through the ARRL board, why don't we draft a proposed rule that WILL cover this and similar situations. And if this rule can't be applied retroactively? Well, that's the risks a DXpedition trying to be first from a new one takes. Just like the first group to Swain's, or Scarborogh, or others. Them's the breaks. 73, ron w3wn -Original
Re: [DX-CHAT] Re:Kosova
David and All, I think this is something that should be very carefully discussed, if it is discussed at all. The issue of Kosovo is a very sensitive one politically. Kosovo is an extremely important area to serbians, primarily due to its religious history and signfiicance. I don't think I can understate the significance it has to Serbia. On the other hand, you have a population in Kosovo which is something like 80% or more non-serbian, a result of years of people being shuffled around in that part of the world. I pass this on simply because I think it is important to have at least some idea of the depth of the controversy before we go clamoring for DXCC purposes. We should let things work themselves out politically (which I am not sure has occurred, since such a large portion of the world has withheld recognition of Kosovo as a sovereign state). When there is some significant meeting of the minds about Kosovo, then it might be appropriate to proceed accordingly. To push too quickly on this is like picking on a scab that hasn't healed. Dave W7AQK - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: dx-chat@njdxa.org Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 7:05 AM Subject: [DX-CHAT] Re:Kosova China, Russia, ARRL against. Free world in favor. Whose the patsies guys. David W1GDQ [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] Re: Kosova
John Warren wrote: China, Russia, ARRL against. Free world in favor. Whose the patsies guys. David W1GDQ Don't you be that square. -- RX9TX Since the house is on fire let us warm ourselves. [Italian Proverb] Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
