RE: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan

2011-07-10 Thread Dave White
 
Take up gardening?  Stamp collecting? Goat keeping?  Graffiti painting? IOTA?

It's not every day that a new one comes along so let's make the most of it.  If 
it's no longer fun, do something else, Don. 

Dave G0OIL

- Original Message -
From: Don Berger dberger...@gmail.com
Sent: 09 July 2011 22:25
To: jjreis...@gmail.com; ct1...@mail.telepac.pt
Cc: dx-chat@njdxa.org
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan


This what I love so much about DXCC. I worked ST0 years ago and will have to 
waste the time doing it again on a bunch of bands. At some point, this 
becomes silly.

Don/K1VSK



- Original Message - 
From: Jim Reisert AD1C jjreis...@alum.mit.edu
To: ct1...@mail.telepac.pt
Cc: dx-chat@njdxa.org
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 4:16 PM
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan



 On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 1:48 PM, Aurelio Costa ct1...@mail.telepac.pt 
 wrote:

 Can someone please give the latitude and longitude of this new country?

 It's not a new country yet.

 Coordinates are same as for deleted ST0 entity, or look up Southern
 Sudan on Wikipedia.

 -- 
 Jim Reisert AD1C, jjreis...@alum.mit.edu, http://www.ad1c.us


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RE: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan

2011-07-10 Thread Dave White
 
The one that makes me smile even after all these years is all things are 
relative, some more so.

Priceless.

Dave G0OIL

- Original Message -
From: Paul M Dunphy list...@ve1dx.net
Sent: 10 July 2011 04:15
To: dx-chat@njdxa.org
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan


At 07:18 PM 7/9/2011, you wrote:

I still have all the West /Coast DX Bulletins but couldn't find the 
reference to catching the same fish twice!

73
K1vsk

 I have them all, Don.  All ~550 original issues, given to me by 
Cass when he was cleaning house ~2000-2001 or so.  I also have a copy 
of the book Bernie describes.  I don't think The Old Timer, any of 
the Local QRPers, or even Red-Eyed Louie and his cousin Sunspot Louie 
ever directly addressed the topic of catching the same fish twice.

 We were left to ponder the meaning of DX IS!, the Eternal 
Enigmas of DXing and the Mysteries of the Ages.  Cass often said, If 
you have to ask the question, you probably won't understand the 
answer.  After reading his material many times, and having numerous 
telephone conversations with WA6AUD, probably the closest advice I 
took away from Hugh Cassidy in situations like this was to emulate 
Lord Baden-Powell, the Hero of Mafeking, and Be Prepared!

 DX IS!  Although for some more than others.

73, Paul VE1DX 



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RE: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan

2011-07-10 Thread Aurelio Costa

It has been recognized by the United Nations THUS is a new country! Or not?
And thanks for the information. It was very helpful! Why didn't I think of
that before bothering you?
73, Leo CT1CSN

-Original Message-
From: jjreis...@gmail.com [mailto:jjreis...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Reisert AD1C
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 9:16 PM
To: ct1...@mail.telepac.pt
Cc: dx-chat@njdxa.org
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan

On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 1:48 PM, Aurelio Costa ct1...@mail.telepac.pt
wrote:

 Can someone please give the latitude and longitude of this new country?

It's not a new country yet.

Coordinates are same as for deleted ST0 entity, or look up Southern
Sudan on Wikipedia.

-- 
Jim Reisert AD1C, jjreis...@alum.mit.edu, http://www.ad1c.us




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RE: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan

2011-07-10 Thread Bernie McClenny, W3UR

Recognized yes - but not a member of the UN until July 14th.

Bernie McClenny, W3UR
Editor of The Daily DX, The Weekly DX and How's DX?
Get a free two week trial of The Daily DX and The Weekly DX
http://www.dailydx.com/trial.htm 



-Original Message-
From: kf...@njdxa.org [mailto:kf...@njdxa.org] On Behalf Of Aurelio
Costa
Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2011 7:01 AM
To: dx-chat@njdxa.org
Subject: RE: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan
Importance: High


It has been recognized by the United Nations THUS is a new country! Or
not?
And thanks for the information. It was very helpful! Why didn't I think
of that before bothering you?
73, Leo CT1CSN

-Original Message-
From: jjreis...@gmail.com [mailto:jjreis...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Reisert AD1C
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 9:16 PM
To: ct1...@mail.telepac.pt
Cc: dx-chat@njdxa.org
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan

On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 1:48 PM, Aurelio Costa ct1...@mail.telepac.pt
wrote:

 Can someone please give the latitude and longitude of this new
country?

It's not a new country yet.

Coordinates are same as for deleted ST0 entity, or look up Southern
Sudan on Wikipedia.

--
Jim Reisert AD1C, jjreis...@alum.mit.edu, http://www.ad1c.us




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Re: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan

2011-07-10 Thread Ryan Jairam

It's not a matter of catching the same fish twice.

ST0 is a different country before and after they split. What if you worked
ST0 and they were operating from what is now South Sudan (but which was
Sudan before)? Which country did you really work, Sudan or South Sudan?
 DXCC doesn't keep track of exact location within an entity, just that you
worked a particular entity. If the entity changes from what it was, you'll
need to work it again  because that old entity no longer exists.

Let's say Texas annexes Northern Mexico and secedes from the USA. If you
worked USA contacts in Texas or northern Mexico, will they now be part of
the USA? No, they will not. Should you get credit for working those
entities? No because they did not exist as DXCC entities at that time.

Your total entity count does not go down, but the number on the current list
does. And it's the number on the current list that determines eligibility
for HR and #1HR.

Ryan, N2RJ





On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 8:31 PM, Fred Stevens K2FRD k2...@mac.com wrote:


 Yes, Bernie, there are several explanations for catching the same fish
 twice. In my own world as a wildlife biologist, it's called
 catch-and-release and mark-and-recapture; the fish (or other wildlife
 such as rabbits, deer, mice, insects, crustaceans, whatever) is caught, then
 tagged before release. Subsequent catches of the tagged fish or other
 animals are measured against catches of the same species which are not
 tagged. After a certain number (N) are caught and again released, a
 formula called the Lincoln-Peterson Index is applied to determine population
 numbers.

 Now, one might reasonably ask, how does a Lincoln-Peterson Index apply to
 recapture of a long gone, then reappearing DX entity such as South Sudan, I
 have no idea, at least not yet. Working on it... I'm still trying to
 recapture QSLs from QSOs in the early 1990s. For example, I made contact
 with only a single station from Rhode Island during my 2001 and 2004
 mini-dxpeditions to VO2 despite repeated efforts. This one station responded
 to my CQ RI but never responded to my repeated QSL requests (I sent him
 SASEs, green stamps, even $5 GS, and letters) but no response thus denying
 me WAS from VO2. Using the Lincoln-Peterson Index (N=1), I would calculate
 that Rhode Island no longer exists, has gone extinct, HF-wise. Yet, QRZ.com
 insists that RI has a ham population of 2263. Such are the vagaries of both
 wildlife and ham radio populations and contacts.

 You win some, you lose some, but you keep playing the game.

 73 de Fred Stevens K2FRD
 Previously VO2/K2FRD
 VO2FS to be QRV in summer 2012

 At 7:00 PM -0400 9/7/11, Bernie McClenny, W3UR wrote:
 Professor Cass taught before the DXCC 2000 rule change, but I suspect
 there must be something that explains catching the same fish twice.  The
 man was a genius!  Guess I'll have to re-read the book, again!
 
 Bernie
 
 Bernie McClenny, W3UR
 Editor of The Daily DX, The Weekly DX and How's DX?
 Get a free two week trial of The Daily DX and The Weekly DX
 http://www.dailydx.com/trial.htm
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: kf...@njdxa.org [mailto:kf...@njdxa.org] On Behalf Of Don Berger
 Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 6:18 PM
 To: ke...@verizon.net; dx-chat@njdxa.org
 Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan
 
 
 I still have all the West /Coast DX Bulletins but couldn't find the
 reference to catching the same fish twice!
 
 73
 K1vsk


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-- 
Ryan A. Jairam,


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Re: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan

2011-07-10 Thread Joe Subich, W4TV




ST0 is a different country before and after they split. What if you
worked ST0 and they were operating from what is now South Sudan (but
which was Sudan before)? Which country did you really work, Sudan or
South Sudan?


Not in this case ... ST0 was a self-governing territory within Sudan.
It was deleted when the Sudanese central government and the regional
government reached an agreement to change status.  That change in
status agreement included the right to a referendum for secession
after a period of time.  The result of the referendum was an
overwhelming vote for independence in the south.

The government of the new South Sudan is the same government that
participated in the reconciliation and referendum process and the
new S. Sudan covers the same area as the former autonomous region.

Except for the fact that the DXCC rules say (Section II, DXCC List
Criteria):

 Entities deleted from the List may be returned to the List in
 the future, should they qualify again in the future under these
 criteria.  However, an entity that does qualify again in the future
 does so as a totally new Entity, not as a reinstated old one.

the secession of Southern Sudan from Sudan would simply mean the
reinstatement of the old (deleted) ST0.

73,

  ... Joe, W4TV


On 7/10/2011 9:25 AM, Ryan Jairam wrote:


It's not a matter of catching the same fish twice.

ST0 is a different country before and after they split. What if you worked
ST0 and they were operating from what is now South Sudan (but which was
Sudan before)? Which country did you really work, Sudan or South Sudan?
  DXCC doesn't keep track of exact location within an entity, just that you
worked a particular entity. If the entity changes from what it was, you'll
need to work it again  because that old entity no longer exists.

Let's say Texas annexes Northern Mexico and secedes from the USA. If you
worked USA contacts in Texas or northern Mexico, will they now be part of
the USA? No, they will not. Should you get credit for working those
entities? No because they did not exist as DXCC entities at that time.

Your total entity count does not go down, but the number on the current list
does. And it's the number on the current list that determines eligibility
for HR and #1HR.

Ryan, N2RJ





On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 8:31 PM, Fred Stevens K2FRDk2...@mac.com  wrote:



Yes, Bernie, there are several explanations for catching the same fish
twice. In my own world as a wildlife biologist, it's called
catch-and-release and mark-and-recapture; the fish (or other wildlife
such as rabbits, deer, mice, insects, crustaceans, whatever) is caught, then
tagged before release. Subsequent catches of the tagged fish or other
animals are measured against catches of the same species which are not
tagged. After a certain number (N) are caught and again released, a
formula called the Lincoln-Peterson Index is applied to determine population
numbers.

Now, one might reasonably ask, how does a Lincoln-Peterson Index apply to
recapture of a long gone, then reappearing DX entity such as South Sudan, I
have no idea, at least not yet. Working on it... I'm still trying to
recapture QSLs from QSOs in the early 1990s. For example, I made contact
with only a single station from Rhode Island during my 2001 and 2004
mini-dxpeditions to VO2 despite repeated efforts. This one station responded
to my CQ RI but never responded to my repeated QSL requests (I sent him
SASEs, green stamps, even $5 GS, and letters) but no response thus denying
me WAS from VO2. Using the Lincoln-Peterson Index (N=1), I would calculate
that Rhode Island no longer exists, has gone extinct, HF-wise. Yet, QRZ.com
insists that RI has a ham population of 2263. Such are the vagaries of both
wildlife and ham radio populations and contacts.

You win some, you lose some, but you keep playing the game.

73 de Fred Stevens K2FRD
Previously VO2/K2FRD
VO2FS to be QRV in summer 2012

At 7:00 PM -0400 9/7/11, Bernie McClenny, W3UR wrote:

Professor Cass taught before the DXCC 2000 rule change, but I suspect
there must be something that explains catching the same fish twice.  The
man was a genius!  Guess I'll have to re-read the book, again!

Bernie

Bernie McClenny, W3UR
Editor of The Daily DX, The Weekly DX and How's DX?
Get a free two week trial of The Daily DX and The Weekly DX
http://www.dailydx.com/trial.htm



-Original Message-
From: kf...@njdxa.org [mailto:kf...@njdxa.org] On Behalf Of Don Berger
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 6:18 PM
To: ke...@verizon.net; dx-chat@njdxa.org
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan


I still have all the West /Coast DX Bulletins but couldn't find the
reference to catching the same fish twice!

73
K1vsk



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Re: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan

2011-07-10 Thread Barry


I like Mome's idea.

These new countries (like PJx) are just a PITA.   They generate a lot of 
noise for a few days and waste everyone's time in the pileups.  Everyone 
just stays in the same place on the DXCC list.


There's no skill in DXIng any more with Cluster spots within 
milliseconds of the DX's appearance.  It's simply a shouting match.  Who 
tunes these days and finds something new and rare?


Barry W2UP

On 7/10/2011 9:13 AM, Z32ZM Mome wrote:


*/HI  OC  Bernie,/*
*/I think that complete story  is verry  simple: /*
*/just REMOVE South Sudan from DELETED to CURRENT  DXCC  everybody  
happy  :)/*

*/(execpt  few's)./*
*//*
*/p.s. what if next year or so, South Sudan's gov. decide to go back 
in united Sudan ? whatever they will still have own Provintial 
Goverment - so I dont see much reasons for been deleted before  add 
now as new DXCC country  (even by DXAC regulations). /*

*//*
*//*
*/Stay Tuned on SIX!!!
73 , GL  DX !!!   de:  Mome Z32ZM , AH6ZM, 3D2ZM/*
- Original Message -
From: Bernie McClenny, W3UR ber...@dailydx.com 
mailto:ber...@dailydx.com
To: ct1...@mail.telepac.pt mailto:ct1...@mail.telepac.pt; 
dx-chat@njdxa.org mailto:dx-chat@njdxa.org

Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2011 2:11 PM
Subject: RE: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan


 Recognized yes - but not a member of the UN until July 14th.

 Bernie McClenny, W3UR
 Editor of The Daily DX, The Weekly DX and How's DX?
 Get a free two week trial of The Daily DX and The Weekly DX
 http://www.dailydx.com/trial.htm



 -Original Message-
 From: kf...@njdxa.org 
mailto:kf...@njdxa.org[mailto:kf...@njdxa.org] On Behalf Of Aurelio

 Costa
 Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2011 7:01 AM
 To: dx-chat@njdxa.org mailto:dx-chat@njdxa.org
 Subject: RE: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan
 Importance: High


 It has been recognized by the United Nations THUS is a new country! Or
 not?
 And thanks for the information. It was very helpful! Why didn't I think
 of that before bothering you?
 73, Leo CT1CSN

 -Original Message-
 From: jjreis...@gmail.com 
mailto:jjreis...@gmail.com[mailto:jjreis...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Jim

 Reisert AD1C
 Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 9:16 PM
 To: ct1...@mail.telepac.pt mailto:ct1...@mail.telepac.pt
 Cc: dx-chat@njdxa.org mailto:dx-chat@njdxa.org
 Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan

 On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 1:48 PM, Aurelio Costa 
ct1...@mail.telepac.pt mailto:ct1...@mail.telepac.pt

 wrote:

 Can someone please give the latitude and longitude of this new
 country?

 It's not a new country yet.

 Coordinates are same as for deleted ST0 entity, or look up Southern
 Sudan on Wikipedia.

 --
 Jim Reisert AD1C, jjreis...@alum.mit.edu 
mailto:jjreis...@alum.mit.edu, http://www.ad1c.us





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--

Barry Kutner, W2UP Lakewood, CO



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RE: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan

2011-07-10 Thread Ron Notarius W3WN

Forgive me for being, ah, late to the party, but we were out of town for the
weekend (anyone want to see pictures of my grandson?) and I'm just now
getting caught up on my email.

 

We had to work Germany again, after the reunification?  I must have missed
the memo on that one.  I THOUGHT that since the former German Democratic
Republic (East) got absorbed into the existing Federal Republic of Germany
(West), for DXCC purposes, since the FRG survived, it still counts as the
same entity, even if we now simply refer to it as Germany.

 

So there's no reason to re-work the existing Sudan.  For precedent, look at
Serbia nee Yugoslavia.  As independence came to one, ah, component of
Yugoslavia after another, the new nations became new DXCC entities, but the
original entity remained - just smaller.

 

73, ron w3wn

 

  _  

From: kf...@njdxa.org [mailto:kf...@njdxa.org] On Behalf Of Jim Abercrombie
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 6:35 PM
To: DX-CHAT@njdxa.org
Subject: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan

 

I remember when Germany-East and West was counted as one country. Then they
were counted as two and we had to work them both again. When they were
united , we worked Germany again.

I wonder if we are going to have to work both Sudans again.Only the DXAC
knows.


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Re: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan

2011-07-10 Thread Don Berger
 
I'm confused - if there is no reason, as Ron explains, to work ST0 again, why 
is NCDXF financially supporting a dx-pedition?
K1VSK

 Glenn Johnson, W0GJ, NCDXF Vice President, sent out
  the following on July 6th: The Northern California DX Foundation (NCDXF)
  is pleased to announce a major grant to the Intrepid DX Group
  http://www.intrepid-dx.com/ and the DX Friends http://www.dxfriends.com/
  who have joined together to activate the new entity of the Republic of
  Southern Sudan. Licensing is imminent and operation could begin in the
  next few days.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Ron Notarius W3WN 
  To: DX-CHAT@njdxa.org 
  Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2011 7:27 PM
  Subject: RE: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan




  Forgive me for being, ah, late to the party, but we were out of town for the 
weekend (anyone want to see pictures of my grandson?) and I'm just now getting 
caught up on my email.

   

  We had to work Germany again, after the reunification?  I must have missed 
the memo on that one.  I THOUGHT that since the former German Democratic 
Republic (East) got absorbed into the existing Federal Republic of Germany 
(West), for DXCC purposes, since the FRG survived, it still counts as the 
same entity, even if we now simply refer to it as Germany.

   

  So there's no reason to re-work the existing Sudan.  For precedent, look at 
Serbia nee Yugoslavia.  As independence came to one, ah, component of 
Yugoslavia after another, the new nations became new DXCC entities, but the 
original entity remained - just smaller.

   

  73, ron w3wn

   


--

  From: kf...@njdxa.org [mailto:kf...@njdxa.org] On Behalf Of Jim Abercrombie
  Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 6:35 PM
  To: DX-CHAT@njdxa.org
  Subject: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan

   

  I remember when Germany-East and West was counted as one country. Then they 
were counted as two and we had to work them both again. When they were united , 
we worked Germany again.

  I wonder if we are going to have to work both Sudans again.Only the DXAC 
knows.


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RE: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan

2011-07-10 Thread Ron Notarius W3WN

That's not what I said.  

 

There's no reason to rework SUDAN again.  But the new nation of Southern
Sudan (or whatever name the country ultimately ends up with) is not, for
DXCC purposes, the same entity as the now-deleted entity of the autonomous
region of Southern Sudan.  

 

The fact that there are current SUDAN stations using the prefix of ST0,
which at one time was generally in use in  recognized as the prefix of the
now defunct Southern Sudan, is irrelevant.

 

As they say at PNC Park Programs!  Programs!  You can't tell the players
without a program!  In other words, don't be misled by a prefix.

 

After all. would you consider a VR6 you worked today as a Pitcairn station
because only a few short years ago, it was the prefix for Pitcairn - but is
today the prefix assigned to Hong Kong?  Of course not, I hope!

 

73

 

  _  

From: Don Berger [mailto:dberger...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2011 7:49 PM
To: wn3...@verizon.net; DX-CHAT@njdxa.org
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan

 

I'm confused - if there is no reason, as Ron explains, to work ST0 again,
why is NCDXF financially supporting a dx-pedition?

K1VSK 



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Re: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan

2011-07-09 Thread Jim Reisert AD1C

On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 1:48 PM, Aurelio Costa ct1...@mail.telepac.pt wrote:

 Can someone please give the latitude and longitude of this new country?

It's not a new country yet.

Coordinates are same as for deleted ST0 entity, or look up Southern
Sudan on Wikipedia.

-- 
Jim Reisert AD1C, jjreis...@alum.mit.edu, http://www.ad1c.us


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Re: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan

2011-07-09 Thread Don Berger


This what I love so much about DXCC. I worked ST0 years ago and will have to 
waste the time doing it again on a bunch of bands. At some point, this 
becomes silly.


Don/K1VSK



- Original Message - 
From: Jim Reisert AD1C jjreis...@alum.mit.edu

To: ct1...@mail.telepac.pt
Cc: dx-chat@njdxa.org
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 4:16 PM
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan




On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 1:48 PM, Aurelio Costa ct1...@mail.telepac.pt 
wrote:



Can someone please give the latitude and longitude of this new country?


It's not a new country yet.

Coordinates are same as for deleted ST0 entity, or look up Southern
Sudan on Wikipedia.

--
Jim Reisert AD1C, jjreis...@alum.mit.edu, http://www.ad1c.us


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Re: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan

2011-07-09 Thread Paul M Dunphy


At 05:25 PM 7/9/2011, you wrote:

This what I love so much about DXCC. I worked ST0 years ago and will 
have to waste the time doing it again on a bunch of bands. At some 
point, this becomes silly.


Don/K1VSK


Many of us are in the same situation, Don.  My feeling is that 
it is a good thing.  As DXers, there is no better thrill than when 
you send or say your call and the DX comes back to you.  Wow!  It's 
like fishing.  You sit there all day and then you get a 
strike.  That's what you go fishing, and why you are a DXer.  To 
catch another one.


We won't have any trouble getting them if the planned operation 
(multiple stations with gain antennas and amps) sets up there for 3 
weeks.  I'm looking forward to it.  Sure, we worked the same 
geographical location in 1990 or whenever, but it's now a different 
political entity and essentially a new country.  The FS and all 4 PJs 
of the past few years made a lot of excitement.  If we never got any 
new ones, it wouldn't be much fun.  What is a person going to do with 
the gear?  Become a contester?


73, Paul VE1DX  




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RE: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan

2011-07-09 Thread Bernie McClenny, W3UR

Don 
If you can ever get your hands on a copy of DX IS!  The Best of the
West Coast DX Bulletin it would be well worth the read!

Bernie

Bernie McClenny, W3UR
Editor of The Daily DX, The Weekly DX and How's DX?
Get a free two week trial of The Daily DX and The Weekly DX
http://www.dailydx.com/trial.htm 



-Original Message-
From: kf...@njdxa.org [mailto:kf...@njdxa.org] On Behalf Of Don Berger
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 4:25 PM
To: jjreis...@gmail.com; ct1...@mail.telepac.pt
Cc: dx-chat@njdxa.org
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan


This what I love so much about DXCC. I worked ST0 years ago and will
have to waste the time doing it again on a bunch of bands. At some
point, this becomes silly.

Don/K1VSK



- Original Message -
From: Jim Reisert AD1C jjreis...@alum.mit.edu
To: ct1...@mail.telepac.pt
Cc: dx-chat@njdxa.org
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 4:16 PM
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan



 On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 1:48 PM, Aurelio Costa ct1...@mail.telepac.pt

 wrote:

 Can someone please give the latitude and longitude of this new
country?

 It's not a new country yet.

 Coordinates are same as for deleted ST0 entity, or look up Southern
 Sudan on Wikipedia.

 -- 
 Jim Reisert AD1C, jjreis...@alum.mit.edu, http://www.ad1c.us


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Re: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan

2011-07-09 Thread Tom-KE1JF


Well Said Paul,  If this didn't happen eventually we would run out of all
time new ones then what would be left.  It's almost like the state stocking
the pond to give the fishermen something good to catch.

73,
Tom, KE1JF


--
From: Paul M Dunphy list...@ve1dx.net
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 5:03 PM
To: dx-chat@njdxa.org
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan



At 05:25 PM 7/9/2011, you wrote:

This what I love so much about DXCC. I worked ST0 years ago and will have 
to waste the time doing it again on a bunch of bands. At some point, this 
becomes silly.


Don/K1VSK


Many of us are in the same situation, Don.  My feeling is that it is a 
good thing.  As DXers, there is no better thrill than when you send or say 
your call and the DX comes back to you.  Wow!  It's like fishing.  You sit 
there all day and then you get a strike.  That's what you go fishing, and 
why you are a DXer.  To catch another one.


We won't have any trouble getting them if the planned operation 
(multiple stations with gain antennas and amps) sets up there for 3 weeks. 
I'm looking forward to it.  Sure, we worked the same geographical location 
in 1990 or whenever, but it's now a different political entity and 
essentially a new country.  The FS and all 4 PJs of the past few years 
made a lot of excitement.  If we never got any new ones, it wouldn't be 
much fun.  What is a person going to do with the gear?  Become a 
contester?


73, Paul VE1DX


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Re: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan

2011-07-09 Thread Don Berger


I still have all the West /Coast DX Bulletins but couldn't find the 
reference to catching the same fish twice!


73
K1vsk
- Original Message - 
From: Tom-KE1JF ke...@verizon.net

To: dx-chat@njdxa.org
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan




Well Said Paul,  If this didn't happen eventually we would run out of all
time new ones then what would be left.  It's almost like the state 
stocking

the pond to give the fishermen something good to catch.

73,
Tom, KE1JF


--
From: Paul M Dunphy list...@ve1dx.net
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 5:03 PM
To: dx-chat@njdxa.org
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan



At 05:25 PM 7/9/2011, you wrote:

This what I love so much about DXCC. I worked ST0 years ago and will have 
to waste the time doing it again on a bunch of bands. At some point, this 
becomes silly.


Don/K1VSK


Many of us are in the same situation, Don.  My feeling is that it is 
a good thing.  As DXers, there is no better thrill than when you send or 
say your call and the DX comes back to you.  Wow!  It's like fishing. 
You sit there all day and then you get a strike.  That's what you go 
fishing, and why you are a DXer.  To catch another one.


We won't have any trouble getting them if the planned operation 
(multiple stations with gain antennas and amps) sets up there for 3 
weeks. I'm looking forward to it.  Sure, we worked the same geographical 
location in 1990 or whenever, but it's now a different political entity 
and essentially a new country.  The FS and all 4 PJs of the past few 
years made a lot of excitement.  If we never got any new ones, it 
wouldn't be much fun.  What is a person going to do with the gear? 
Become a contester?


73, Paul VE1DX


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RE: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan

2011-07-09 Thread Bernie McClenny, W3UR

Professor Cass taught before the DXCC 2000 rule change, but I suspect
there must be something that explains catching the same fish twice.  The
man was a genius!  Guess I'll have to re-read the book, again!

Bernie

Bernie McClenny, W3UR
Editor of The Daily DX, The Weekly DX and How's DX?
Get a free two week trial of The Daily DX and The Weekly DX
http://www.dailydx.com/trial.htm 



-Original Message-
From: kf...@njdxa.org [mailto:kf...@njdxa.org] On Behalf Of Don Berger
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 6:18 PM
To: ke...@verizon.net; dx-chat@njdxa.org
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan


I still have all the West /Coast DX Bulletins but couldn't find the
reference to catching the same fish twice!

73
K1vsk
- Original Message -
From: Tom-KE1JF ke...@verizon.net
To: dx-chat@njdxa.org
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan



 Well Said Paul,  If this didn't happen eventually we would run out of
all
 time new ones then what would be left.  It's almost like the state 
 stocking
 the pond to give the fishermen something good to catch.

 73,
 Tom, KE1JF


 --
 From: Paul M Dunphy list...@ve1dx.net
 Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 5:03 PM
 To: dx-chat@njdxa.org
 Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan


 At 05:25 PM 7/9/2011, you wrote:

This what I love so much about DXCC. I worked ST0 years ago and will
have 
to waste the time doing it again on a bunch of bands. At some point,
this 
becomes silly.

Don/K1VSK

 Many of us are in the same situation, Don.  My feeling is that it
is 
 a good thing.  As DXers, there is no better thrill than when you send
or 
 say your call and the DX comes back to you.  Wow!  It's like fishing.

 You sit there all day and then you get a strike.  That's what you go 
 fishing, and why you are a DXer.  To catch another one.

 We won't have any trouble getting them if the planned operation 
 (multiple stations with gain antennas and amps) sets up there for 3 
 weeks. I'm looking forward to it.  Sure, we worked the same
geographical 
 location in 1990 or whenever, but it's now a different political
entity 
 and essentially a new country.  The FS and all 4 PJs of the past few 
 years made a lot of excitement.  If we never got any new ones, it 
 wouldn't be much fun.  What is a person going to do with the gear? 
 Become a contester?

 73, Paul VE1DX


 ---
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Re: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan

2011-07-09 Thread Joe Subich, W4TV



  When they were united , we worked Germany again.

No, the former West Germany remained as the counter for the unified
Germany.

 I wonder if we are going to have to work both Sudans again. Only the
 DXAC knows.

Just the new South Sudan.

DXCC 2000 rules do not allow a deleted country to ever be undeleted -
the new entity must be new even if it represents the same territory
and same government as the entity that was deleted.   Another case of
rules not reflecting reality (just like 800 miles not meaning 800
miles).

73,

  ... Joe, W4TV


On 7/9/2011 6:34 PM, Jim Abercrombie wrote:


I remember when Germany-East and West was counted as one country. Then they 
were counted as two and we had to work them both again. When they were united , 
we worked Germany again.
I wonder if we are going to have to work both Sudans again.Only the DXAC knows.

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RE: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan

2011-07-09 Thread Fred Stevens K2FRD

Yes, Bernie, there are several explanations for catching the same fish twice. 
In my own world as a wildlife biologist, it's called catch-and-release and 
mark-and-recapture; the fish (or other wildlife such as rabbits, deer, mice, 
insects, crustaceans, whatever) is caught, then tagged before release. 
Subsequent catches of the tagged fish or other animals are measured against 
catches of the same species which are not tagged. After a certain number (N) 
are caught and again released, a formula called the Lincoln-Peterson Index is 
applied to determine population numbers.

Now, one might reasonably ask, how does a Lincoln-Peterson Index apply to 
recapture of a long gone, then reappearing DX entity such as South Sudan, I 
have no idea, at least not yet. Working on it... I'm still trying to recapture 
QSLs from QSOs in the early 1990s. For example, I made contact with only a 
single station from Rhode Island during my 2001 and 2004 mini-dxpeditions to 
VO2 despite repeated efforts. This one station responded to my CQ RI but never 
responded to my repeated QSL requests (I sent him SASEs, green stamps, even $5 
GS, and letters) but no response thus denying me WAS from VO2. Using the 
Lincoln-Peterson Index (N=1), I would calculate that Rhode Island no longer 
exists, has gone extinct, HF-wise. Yet, QRZ.com insists that RI has a ham 
population of 2263. Such are the vagaries of both wildlife and ham radio 
populations and contacts.

You win some, you lose some, but you keep playing the game.

73 de Fred Stevens K2FRD
Previously VO2/K2FRD
VO2FS to be QRV in summer 2012

At 7:00 PM -0400 9/7/11, Bernie McClenny, W3UR wrote:
Professor Cass taught before the DXCC 2000 rule change, but I suspect
there must be something that explains catching the same fish twice.  The
man was a genius!  Guess I'll have to re-read the book, again!

Bernie

Bernie McClenny, W3UR
Editor of The Daily DX, The Weekly DX and How's DX?
Get a free two week trial of The Daily DX and The Weekly DX
http://www.dailydx.com/trial.htm



-Original Message-
From: kf...@njdxa.org [mailto:kf...@njdxa.org] On Behalf Of Don Berger
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 6:18 PM
To: ke...@verizon.net; dx-chat@njdxa.org
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan


I still have all the West /Coast DX Bulletins but couldn't find the
reference to catching the same fish twice!

73
K1vsk


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Re: [DX-CHAT] South Sudan

2011-07-09 Thread Paul M Dunphy


At 07:18 PM 7/9/2011, you wrote:

I still have all the West /Coast DX Bulletins but couldn't find the 
reference to catching the same fish twice!


73
K1vsk


I have them all, Don.  All ~550 original issues, given to me by 
Cass when he was cleaning house ~2000-2001 or so.  I also have a copy 
of the book Bernie describes.  I don't think The Old Timer, any of 
the Local QRPers, or even Red-Eyed Louie and his cousin Sunspot Louie 
ever directly addressed the topic of catching the same fish twice.


We were left to ponder the meaning of DX IS!, the Eternal 
Enigmas of DXing and the Mysteries of the Ages.  Cass often said, If 
you have to ask the question, you probably won't understand the 
answer.  After reading his material many times, and having numerous 
telephone conversations with WA6AUD, probably the closest advice I 
took away from Hugh Cassidy in situations like this was to emulate 
Lord Baden-Powell, the Hero of Mafeking, and Be Prepared!


DX IS!  Although for some more than others.

73, Paul VE1DX 




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