Ecolog-l...i sent the attached reply to Todd Doherty's reply [*in bold*] to Jarrett Byrnes...my comments to Todd are in *italics...clara*
*Jarrett, thanks for sharing. I think this issue (and many of those in academia regarding gender gaps, socio-economic accessibility) boil down to...Ego-tripping. A lot of fiercely talented and passionate people trying to leave their mark on the world enter the halls of academia, and many fewer find it their permanent career home*. *...is it really different in other fields...how can we determine what proportion of those leaving Science leave for reasons other than the "ego-tripping" of other scientists...* *The people who have always been the players in these halls will grasp onto that power and resist the changing of the guard*.*...let's assume this is accurate...is this any different than the state of affairs in other fields...i recently heard a famous football player tell a reporter: "My job is to keep the guy behind me on the bench."...maybe this phenotype is, simply, a byproduct of competition...maybe it is a byproduct of being, say, in the top 5% of any competitive field...* *This isn't to say Academia isn't full of many wonderful, inspiring people*, *...it is my personal opinion that a person has an obligation to be polite but no obligation to be "wonderful, inspiring"...a professional's job is to be the best...* *but I do think there is often an aire of elitism and separatism that discourages many talented and passionate people unnecessarily**...might these perceptions be projections by individuals who, for whatever reasons, are not likely to be among the top 1 or the 5% of the scientific mainstream...aren't the top 1%, 5% the standard-bearers for all of us...don't they stand out de facto, without any effort of their own...maybe you're noting that some % of the top 1, 5% are pretty obnoxious, arrogant, etc...well, sure, but there are, IMO, people everywhere w those traits...thus, what else is new...* *Many who have rightfully earned a place to grace the halls end up leaving dissatisfied or even feeling like they were run out of town**..*.*well, leaving is a personal decision...a grad student either "gets with" the program or s/he does not...academia is broad enough to accomodate pretty much every personal inclination...i require, for example, certain specialized medical care...it would not be a university's problem if i chose to attend one without that service...i could, i guess, attend such a university and then try to change it once i got there...but, well, this simply doesn't seem like a very good or justifiable idea to me...* *Striving to have an impact as Ecologists, we should be striving to be inclusive, collaborate - without borders*...*this is a goal...some people will be sympathetic to the goal...some people [me, for example] will want to know a bit more about what you mean by this...some people will want to know whether you're suggesting that this perspective need be adopted by all faculty in all EEB departments...how is this statement operationalized in a manner that has the potential to turn out Ecologists among the next generation's 1, 5%...aren't there many academic departments in which the goals advanced in your statement have been realized...can't EEB applicants with your attitudes apply to these departments...if i'm a female w 3 kids who wants to be home every d when her kids come home from school or a new mom committed to "attachment parenting" or a college graduate from an inner-city ghetto who doesn't want to learn Standard English, then, maybe some departments will decide not to include or collaborate with me...on the other hand, there are EEB departments that wouldn't consider one or another of the profiles a dis-advantage...a grown-up would apply to those universities...* *We should be striving to demystify science, to make it more accessible to everyone. Ecology is a way of thinking, not just a gilded profession of which few are worthy. Elitism in science and the externalization of the concepts of "Ecology" or "the Environment" work against all of us. Empowering and encouraging different minded colleagues grows our network and links disciplines. Living by example, illustrating the inherent nature of ecology in each of our daily lives, connecting the community at large with their "environment" - these all grow your impact as an Ecologist, all simply by focusing on things like being inclusive and collaborative, rather than competitive*.*..i'll simply say in response to the foregoing that you might want to discuss these ideas with a grad student busting his/her butt to be first author on his/her first Nature or Science or PNAS paper...i would add, highly subjectively...that maybe all EEB professors should be seeking grad students who are prepared to bust their butts for such papers...this is what the big leagues is all about, Todd...think of your favorite sport, your favorite team, you're not rooting for the wimps...or for the players who were chosen by democratic vote...even in politics where someone is elected by democratic vote...you're voting for the person you want to win...etc, etc [apply to any choice...say, your choice of life partner or best friend, etc, etc...you're choosing someone with certain criteria, winning or other criteria & choosing obviously obviates other choices...there are a seemingly large % of people in my community who are "polyamorous" or "polysexual" or who practice "polifidelity"...but most of us don't choose to be "inclusive" about our romantic lives...most of us don't want to "demystify" the objects of our romantic desires just as a passionate EEBer doesn't want to demystify or democratize her/his passion for Ecology...to make a mark in love or in Science is, ceteris paribus, a singular event...[please do not trivialize the last couple of comments by reminding me that much of what scientists are doing now is collaborative...that is not my point...my point is that each contribution from each of us deserves to be "top drawer"]...* *Sure, not everyone can or has the desire to stay in Academia. When people find themselves on a divergent path, they should be wished well on their way and better educated on the great alternatives out there. They likely still have loads to contribute to science, ecology and the world in general - their passion and intelligence shouldn't be snuffed from the world because their original plan changed*.*..as per Johnny Cash..."Every hand's a winner, every hand's a loser."...the fact that this statement is not true in an absolute sense is beside the point...each of us has a set or cards in his/her hand &, conditionally, gets his/her chances to play them...* *We should all avoid guarding science, being noninclusive. It is Ego sabotaging positive growth. Good work speaks for itself. Let's focus on what we can do together*.*..the foregoing 4 statements are replete with value judgments...that need to be carefully unpacked...Science, IMO, is not and should not be a democracy...anyone is free to object...BTW...the comments herein [yours & mine] are potentially polarizing...hopefully, there is room for disagreement as well as room for the effete among us who simply want to be left alone to pursue our passions for a few questions related to EEB...work that may not get us to the 1, 5% but work that has emulated those standards...all best, clara* *Cheers, Todd * On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 7:52 AM, Aaron T. Dossey <bugoc...@gmail.com> wrote: > Complete silence. Could academia be feeling some shame here? ..... nah.... > > The article has a few new comments on the article itself though, check > them out! > > http://deepseanews.com/2013/**02/19294/< http://deepseanews.com/2013/02/19294/> > > https://www.facebook.com/**notes/national-postdoc-union/** > ideas-for-expanding-**opportunity-and-innovation-in-**science-careers/** > 279532325495663< https://www.facebook.com/notes/national-postdoc-union/ideas-for-expanding-opportunity-and-innovation-in-science-careers/279532325495663 > > > > > On 2/11/2013 10:24 AM, Jarrett Byrnes wrote: > >> Colleagues, >> >> I just read a piece that describes how one young bright and very talented >> scientist was lost to our profession. It's an open and honest discussion >> of one man's struggles with the way modern academia works, and how it can >> make use eat our young, as it were. I think it points out a lot of the >> hidden corners and the darker sides of how academic science currently works >> - things we make jokes about or shake our heads at, and sometimes, in >> moments of bravery, we confront and try to change. Heck, I'd like to think >> that we Ecologists are better than most other fields, but I know that to >> not always be the case. >> >> The post is at http://deepseanews.com/2013/**02/19294/< http://deepseanews.com/2013/02/19294/> >> >> I think there is a lot in this piece to unpack. I know a some on this >> list or out in academia who will think that the author _should_ leave >> science and does not deserve to be here. And I'm sure that there are other >> sides to the story being told, etc. etc. The specifics, though, are less >> important than the broad patterns and themes it evinces. >> >> Given the conversation is has spawned in comments, other blogs, and >> Twitter, it is clear this is not an isolated story. It dovetails with many >> issues that we traditionally relegate to 'leaky pipeline' discussions, but >> are true regardless of gender - indeed, gender, race, class, and lack >> privileged background often only amplify them. >> >> The piece is worth reading, and then asking, what effect does driving out >> voices like this have on science as a whole? Are we better or poorer for >> such losses? Is this acceptable? >> >> Food for thought. >> >> -Jarrett >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------**---------- >> >> Jarrett Byrnes >> Assistant Professor >> Department of Biology >> University of Massachusetts Boston >> 100 Morrissey Blvd. >> Boston, MA 02125 >> 617-287-3145 >> >> http://jarrettbyrnes.info >> b: http://imachordata.com >> t: @jebyrnes >> g+: http://gplus.to/jebyrnes >> > > > -- > Aaron T. Dossey, Ph.D. > Biochemistry and Molecular Biology > Founder/Owner: All Things Bugs > Capitalizing on Low-Crawling Fruit from Insect-Based Innovation > http://allthingsbugs.com/**about/people/< http://allthingsbugs.com/about/people/> > http://www.facebook.com/**Allthingsbugs< http://www.facebook.com/Allthingsbugs> > 1-352-281-3643 > -- Clara B. Jones Director Mammals and Phenogroups (MaPs) Twitter: http://twitter.com/cbjones1943 Cell: -828-279-4429 Blog Profile: http://www.blogger.com/profile/09089578792549394529 Brief CV: http://vertebratesocialbehavior.blogspot.com/2012/10/clara-b-jones-brief-cv.html "Where no estimate of error of any kind can be made, generalizations about populations from sample data are worthless." Ferguson, 1959 -- Clara B. Jones Director Mammals and Phenogroups (MaPs) Twitter: http://twitter.com/cbjones1943 Cell: -828-279-4429 Blog Profile: http://www.blogger.com/profile/09089578792549394529 Brief CV: http://vertebratesocialbehavior.blogspot.com/2012/10/clara-b-jones-brief-cv.html "Where no estimate of error of any kind can be made, generalizations about populations from sample data are worthless." Ferguson, 1959 -- Clara B. Jones Director Mammals and Phenogroups (MaPs) Twitter: http://twitter.com/cbjones1943 Cell: -828-279-4429 Blog Profile: http://www.blogger.com/profile/09089578792549394529 Brief CV: http://vertebratesocialbehavior.blogspot.com/2012/10/clara-b-jones-brief-cv.html "Where no estimate of error of any kind can be made, generalizations about populations from sample data are worthless." Ferguson, 1959
