Re: adjusting marks; W. Edwards Deming

1999-12-23 Thread Jim Clark

Hi

On Wed, 22 Dec 1999, Peter Westfall wrote:
 Jim Clark wrote:
  Artificially giving all students (or almost all) the same grade
  does not minimize variation in the underlying trait, achievement,
  in this case. It simply hides the variation so that one does not
  know to what extent one is minimizing differences in achievement,
  and rewards students for not trying to achieve more than some
  minimal level.

 I don't Deming would have said assignment of Pass/Fail should
 be "artificial".  If the student doesn't perform, then of
 course they shouldn't Pass.  He did say, on the other hand,
 that grading imposes an artificial scarcity of A's (also of C's
 and D's).  These are again Deming's words, and echo Dennis
 Robert's comments about the pure subjectivity of the grading
 process. 

Artificial scarcity is _not_ a necessary feature of grading (see
below) and a relatively small number of high grades does _not_
necessarily indicate anything about the subjectivity of grading.
Students (or employees or whatever) vary on characteristics that
affect their performance in class (or on the job), such as
ability and motivation.  To treat all human beings as some
homogenous group indicates to me a serious misunderstanding of
human beings.  We should certainly do everything we can to
maximize performance of everyone, but there are limits to what
can be achieved.

 The motivation for the students should be in Joy of Learning
 (one of Deming's 14 points) rather than the grade.  This I
 agree with wholeheartedly.  How can we achieve this?  I think
 it is our main challenge as educators.  Using the grading
 system as a motivational substitute for Joy of Learning is
 lazy, inefficient management of our classes. 

You do not promote joy of learning by creating a system in which
people who work hard find that people who do less or poorer work
achieve the same benefits (i.e., grades, salary).  That strikes
me as a good way to disillusion everyone.  You can certainly
downplay the consequences side and emphasize to students that
they should focus on understanding and learning the material,
that evaluations are primarily to provide feedback on how well
things are going, and the like.  Mostly, you need to design the
educational system to maximize learning and achievement by as
many students as possible (e.g., well organized instruction,
constructive evaluation, enhancing interest in the material,
teaching study or other prerequisite skills, and so on).

 Students who are fairly sure they are not going to get the
 coveted A, or who only need a "C or better" are going to give
 less effort.  This will increase variation, and operates
 contrary to the stated goal of the system. 

In fact research shows that low aptitude students tend to study
_more_ than high aptitude students, which results in a moderation
of the relationship between aptitude and grades (i.e., reducing
variation).  One hypothesis is that students study as much as
necessary to achieve some level of perceived
understanding/learning, and the amount of study needed differs
across students.

  Grading is not equivalent to ranking, unless one uses a forced
  distribution.  One can grade without any restriction on the
  number of As or other grades other than the achievement of the
  students.  I would be interested in hearing about any empirical
  evidence that non-use of grading schemes produces better or even
  as good learning as the use of grades?

 I think this is a very important point: what can we do in place
 of ranking?  Now, as much as you say you don't use ranking, I
 am not sure you can get away without out.  What if all of a
 sudden everyone got A's by your criteria?  Wouldn't the
 administration get on your case?  Then, you might say, just
 make the criteria harder so that we get back to a "normal"
 proportion of As, Bs etc.  Well, aren't you just back to
 ranking? 

In my experience, the odds of everyone getting As by any sensible
criteria are quite slim.  By sensible, I mean not so excessively
low that everyone passes some real minimal standard (e.g., as for
driving a car, to use an example from another posting).  In fact
I teach an honours methods and statistics class that routinely
has half the class receive As.  The class has select students to
begin with and is designed so that hard work is pretty much
ensured.  Even though grades at our institution are formally
reviewed by a committee, I have never had a problem.  As for
changing criteria, that is a complex issue.  I teach my students
now far more than what I learned in the comparable class 30 years
ago.  Such evolution does occur, but it is not artificial.  For
example, graduates today are expected to have greater computer
expertise.

 I don't have any data from the classroom experience, but I do
 have an observation from business.  Texas Instruments had a
 policy of ranking plants in terms of their performance.  The
 employees at the top plants received bonuses.  Great idea,
 right?  Motivates 

algorithm for cumulative t-distribution -Reply

1999-12-23 Thread Jerrold Zar

Various methods for this sort of thing are found in the marvelous
compilation by M. Zelen and N. C. Severo, 1964, Probability functions,
pp. 925-995, in M. Abramowitz and I. Stegun (eds.), Handbok of
Mathematical Functions, National Bureau of Standards, Wsahington, D.C.
(1965 edition by Dover Publications, New York).

You'll have to write the computer code for these methods.

Jerrold H. Zar, Professor
Department of Biological Sciences
Northern Illinois University
DeKalb, IL 60115
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/20 12:36 pm 
Hello;

I am trying to write some code which will churn
out a set of values representing the cumulative
density function of the Student t-distribution,
for a given probability and range of DFs.

Can anyone tell me what I should be trying to
code?

I can find dozens of tables which list the values
I want, and dozens of applets which generate the
values I want, but I need an algorithm which will
allow me to generate these values on the fly,
given the user's "certainty".

I need to know which "X value" corresponds to
given "area under the t-distribution".

Any pointers to papers or URLs, would be much
appreciated.

Neil
([EMAIL PROTECTED])



Re: grading on the curve

1999-12-23 Thread Herman Rubin

In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Rich Ulrich  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 22 Dec 1999 14:47:38 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (dennis roberts) wrote:



Actually, I see where I might want to be more arbitrary that just
changing a cutoff.  How do you reward someone who is really trying
hard, vs. someone who is smart but is blowing it off?

Why should you?  The grade should be on knowledge and the ability
to use it, not on effort.  If somebody is born with the knowledge,
he deserves the grade and credit.  If someone works full time and
cannot do it, he deserves to fail.

 Or, to get
concrete in another fashion -- the football ratings reward/punish
teams more for the most recent games, the final games.  But I think
more of my courses (as a student) used equal weighting across a term,
by halves or thirds, than used a highly weighted Final.  Suddenly, I
see a virtue in having a heavy Final.  And in having some subjective
grading of it (essay questions always gave room to fudge).

I always use a non-linear grading scheme, with the course grade
rarely lower than the grade on the final.  This is the best I can
do; we really should be giving comprehensive exams on many courses
well after the end of the courses.

...

In chemistry, everyone noticed, right off, that the ridiculously
difficult homework assignments, due each Monday, were weighted *zero*
points in the total;  that certainly cut down on the amount of papers
that the TAs had to look at. -- There was an object-lesson implicit
there, I am sure, but I am less sure what that lesson was.

What is the purpose of homework?  It should be to help learning,
and this cannot be combined with being used for a grade.  Those
problems which do not contribute to learning are a waste of time.
-- 
This address is for information only.  I do not claim that these views
are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: (765)494-6054   FAX: (765)494-0558



Adjusting marks

1999-12-23 Thread David A. Heiser

Splendid.

The pot has been stirred.

Some very good responses to my stone.

I stand corrected.

DAH