Re: Hypothesis testing and magic - episode 2

2000-04-20 Thread P.G.Hamer
Jerry Dallal wrote: As Tukey has pointed out, the null hypothesis of no effect is not that we think there is no effect, but we are uncertain of the direction. I wish I knew more about Delany and its application. One problem, pointed out by David Salsburg, is that a substances that

Re: Hypothesis testing and magic - episode 2

2000-04-20 Thread Rich Ulrich
On Thu, 20 Apr 2000 10:48:38 +0100, "P.G.Hamer" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip, interesting stuff about, proper age-adjusted life-tables, with proper adjustment of base-line Ns, would not show an increase in competing causes of death BTW an even greater problem in animal testing seems to be

Re: Hypothesis testing and magic - episode 2

2000-04-18 Thread Jerry Dallal
Herman Rubin wrote: The truth myth is highly persistent. We have the Delaney Clause, which requires the FDA to ban any additive "which has been found to cause cancer in humans or animals". Now what does this mean? It is unlikely that anything does not affect the cancer rate. We do not

Re: Hypothesis testing and magic - episode 2

2000-04-13 Thread Michael Granaas
On Thu, 13 Apr 2000, Alan McLean wrote: Some more comments on hypothesis testing: My impression of the ‘hypothesis test controversy’, which seems to exist primarily in the areas of psychology, education and the like is that it is at least partly a consequence of the sheer difficulty of

Re: Hypothesis testing and magic - episode 2

2000-04-13 Thread dennis roberts
At 08:37 AM 4/13/00 -0400, Art Kendall wrote: in the "harder to do" sciences it is common to distinguish an experiment from a quasi-experiment. Part of the difficulty of these fields is that we can not (or ethically may not) manipulate many independent variables. Therefore we lose the

Re: Hypothesis testing and magic - episode 2

2000-04-13 Thread dennis roberts
At 10:23 AM 4/13/00 -0500, Michael Granaas wrote: In addition to defining the variables some areas do a better job of defining and therefore testing their models. The ag example is one where not only the variables are relatively clear so are the models. That is there is one highly plausible

Re: Hypothesis testing and magic - episode 2

2000-04-13 Thread Michael Granaas
On Thu, 13 Apr 2000, dennis roberts wrote: At 10:23 AM 4/13/00 -0500, Michael Granaas wrote: In addition to defining the variables some areas do a better job of defining and therefore testing their models. The ag example is one where not only the variables are relatively clear so are the

Re: Hypothesis testing and magic - episode 2

2000-04-13 Thread Alan McLean
Hi Michael, This sounds to me like lousy experimental design. Surely the purpose of the experiment is to distinguish between competing theoretical models? Michael Granaas wrote: But in some areas in psychology you will have a situation where many theoretical perspectives predict the same

Re: Hypothesis testing and magic - episode 2

2000-04-13 Thread Alan McLean
dennis roberts wrote: but, if we follow this to some logical conclusion ... this could be rephrased as meaning ... situations where you have essentially complete control over variable manipulation = situations where you can establish 'the truth' (in terms of the impacts of these

Re: Hypothesis testing and magic - episode 2

2000-04-13 Thread David A. Heiser
- Original Message - From: Michael Granaas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: EDSTAT list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2000 8:23 AM Subject: Re: Hypothesis testing and magic - episode 2 In addition to defining the variables some areas do a better job of defining and therefore testing

RE: Hypothesis testing and magic

2000-04-12 Thread Silvert, Henry
11, 2000 7:47 PM To: EDSTAT list Subject: Hypothesis testing and magic I have been reading all the back and forth about hypothesis testing with some degree of fascination. It's a topic of particular interest to me - I presented a paper called 'Hypothesis testing and the Westminster

Hypothesis testing and magic - episode 2

2000-04-12 Thread Alan McLean
Some more comments on hypothesis testing: My impression of the ‘hypothesis test controversy’, which seems to exist primarily in the areas of psychology, education and the like (this is coming from someone who has been involved in education for all my working life, but with a

Re: Hypothesis testing and magic - episode 2

2000-04-12 Thread dennis roberts
At 09:30 AM 4/13/00 +1000, Alan McLean wrote: In the ‘soft’ sciences it is easy enough to identify a characteristic of interest ­ alan makes good points as usual ... but i totally object to the term 'soft' sciences ... what does soft imply? that the science is bad ... or, that merely that

Hypothesis testing and magic

2000-04-11 Thread Alan McLean
I have been reading all the back and forth about hypothesis testing with some degree of fascination. It's a topic of particular interest to me - I presented a paper called 'Hypothesis testing and the Westminster System' at the ISI conference in Helsinki last year. What I find fascinating is the