Re: [Edu-sig] another edu-sig page textbook (suggesting to AR)
On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 1:04 PM, Jeff Rush wrote: << SNIP >> > I was thinking of regional events, 3-4 a year, to make them more convenient to > teachers and students who often lack a budget to travel. With a focus on the > use of Python programming in education, both K-12 and University level, both > for CS and definitely non-CS subjects. It would take place on a weekend, > perhaps just Saturday to be considerate of those who cannot take time off from > school. > Some of the thinking over hear is Cubespace could host Barcamps specific to visiting schools, say a combined 11-12th grade coming in for a day and doing the self organize thing, with teachers having their legal role of adult guardians but otherwise not trying to distort this already well-developed model. Part of our thinking is FOSS subculture doesn't easily survive when narrowed to one language, showcases like Pycon a large billboard advertising the few exceptions, though we don't rival ESRI's I understand (on the other hand, there's Python there too). So if attempting to bring students into an experience of our "way of life", we have Perl, PHP, Apache... very long list of tools, not wanting to "fall below threshold". Basically, there's no "world domination" with "just Python" so we're not really able to talk like pirates er geeks unless we have a complete ecosystems to return home to (at Pycons, we do). An alternative is "Barcamp in a Box" where we take it into the schools, more realistic in some cases, less realistic in others. Plus I'm not sure Cubespace really wants to be overrun with "yellow bus people", so even better would be ESD sets aside a repurposed facility, some warehouse in ToonTown maybe (east side, near Produce Row?). Once you're all grown up and well versed in geek culture, going to Pycon doesn't risk stripping you of your memepool, i.e. you already know all this other stuff besides Python. But when still in high school, you need to follow various rules about not mixing the students with strangers on school time, plus not falling below threshold in terms of keeping the content believable. I think a big problem with contemporary "classroom math" is it has, in fact, "fallen below threshold", fails to meet the relevance test. The only thing that keeps it in place is the relentless pressure to pass ETS-administered screening tests. Those who control the obstacle course control the shape of recruiting. However, we have a long history of pioneering and experimenting in this country, are getting official encouragement to keep at it from on high. I'm feeling pretty upbeat about FOSS having a bright future in our schools, but it'll take a lot more than a few dedicated Pythonistas to keep the flame alive. Good thing we've got GNU, EFF, all the rest of 'em. Kirby ___ Edu-sig mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
Re: [Edu-sig] another edu-sig page textbook (suggesting to AR)
On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Jeff Rush wrote: > > Hmm, "science fair", how about a "Python Fair" along those lines. It could be > a "Programming Fair" but that might lead people to think it was only for CS > majors. It might be "Computer Fair" that I think that opens up the event too > broadly. > > How about an alarm clock you can program with simple script, to make it work > the way you want - a different snooze delay, with per-day differences in > behavior for your work schedule. When I was working on my dissertation, I programmed an alarm clock I called "two-timer" which since have been used by many people with attention issues. You program two different time periods, say, 20 minutes for writing and 10 minutes for cleaning the house; the (pleasant) alarm goes off after 20, 10, 20, 10 and so on minutes and you know to switch between your two tasks. It had sliders, because when one is tired or nervous time periods need to be shorter. I used it with some math anxious kids, too - it seems the very thought of switching between activities frequently is enough to keep them calm and focused. I need to move the thing to cell phones so I can carry it with me. There are many little "social apps" like that you could make. -- Cheers, MariaD Make math your own, to make your own math. http://www.naturalmath.com social math site http://www.phenixsolutions.com empowering our innovations ___ Edu-sig mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
Re: [Edu-sig] another edu-sig page textbook (suggesting to AR)
kirby urner wrote: > > I'm not saying the edu-sig page should get into all this, as it aims > to stay brief and uncluttered, just thinking we need some way to > suggest the "science fair" aspect of future Pycons (the idea > originates with Steve Holden in response to BOF-expressed desires to > get teachers more involved, Pycon having a predominantly business > flavor, with Jeff Rush going so far as to suggest a whole separate > EduPycon, which idea I've continued to float, as worthy of > consideration, including in edu-sig threads why not? Hmm, "science fair", how about a "Python Fair" along those lines. It could be a "Programming Fair" but that might lead people to think it was only for CS majors. It might be "Computer Fair" that I think that opens up the event too broadly. I was thinking of regional events, 3-4 a year, to make them more convenient to teachers and students who often lack a budget to travel. With a focus on the use of Python programming in education, both K-12 and University level, both for CS and definitely non-CS subjects. It would take place on a weekend, perhaps just Saturday to be considerate of those who cannot take time off from school. There would be two tracks; one for students learning to program, with good support for beginners to Python and total beginners to programming. The second track would be for teachers to learn how other teachers use programming to present their subject areas. I bet we could get some sponsors to defray costs, and put together a proposal to the PSF for funding of travel costs for some top-notch speakers. Anyway just a idea I keep thinking about, that could show a good return on the PSF finances, and wondering if its something enough people would get behind to make happen. It also promotes the use of Python early in the pipeline, with students adopting it in their professional life after leaving school. I don't have the background or contacts in education to chair it though. > CP4E and/or P4E never meant turning everyone into CS majors right? We > should make sure that the "education" in edu-sig is far broader than > CS departments reaching out... It definitely meant more than making everyone a CS major. It is about empowering people to participate in an increasingly more computerized world, opening the box, dispelling the magic and getting people to take control according to their abilities. A basic literacy, a conceptual model of how it works and the encouragement to dabble, to program their appliances for their lifestyle or just to have fun. Few dabble with electricity or water due to the danger and costs. Programming is much more forgiving of play and very very cheap to do. How about an alarm clock you can program with simple script, to make it work the way you want - a different snooze delay, with per-day differences in behavior for your work schedule. Or a TV system scriptable to catch programs in the manner you want, the prioritization you want, and store different content to different levels of quality, perhaps with email/IM/twitter notices of specific situations. Or perhaps just a better understanding of the idea of automated trading or the power grid failures or why security of online systems is so elusive. Imagine an alternate history where cars (buses) are all driven by hired drivers because only trained automotive professionals are considered safe by society to control multi-ton powerful masses of metal and fuel. I mean, if non-engineers drove them, there would be wrecks everywhere and cars flying off the road -- certainly a grandmother or teenager could not drive them safely. Imagine the impact on society of that history and of when people start insisting on driving themselves for the simple trips, tired of being dependent on others. That's what I see today, people in their driving caps and jackets, making programming a big deal when it shouldn't be. -Jeff ___ Edu-sig mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
Re: [Edu-sig] another edu-sig page textbook (suggesting to AR)
The "coolness" factor has to be there, for everybody. The forms/representations/approaches can be adapted to your audience, but... > > That's smart pedagogy by the way. As soon as you call it "remedial" > you've proved you're not a smart teacher, as you've saddled students > with a label that works against them. > > So many colleges and universities fall into the trap of offering > "remedial" this and that -- not so smart as Princeton, which would > call it "Python for Thespians" or something (and it wouldn't be a lie > -- Princeton big into theater, always has been). > I finally tracked down that "Simpsons" quote. The episode, called "You can only move twice," places Bart into a remedial class: Teacher: Okay. Now, everyone take out your safety pencil and a circle of paper. This week, I hope we can finish our work on the letter "A". Bart: Let me get this straight. We're behind the rest of our class and we're going to catch up to them by going slower than they are? [making "crazy" gesture] Cuckoo. Kids: [imitating him] Cuckoo. Cuckoo. Cuckoo. Cuckoo. Cheers, MariaD Make math your own, to make your own math. http://www.naturalmath.com social math site http://www.phenixsolutions.com empowering our innovations ___ Edu-sig mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
Re: [Edu-sig] another edu-sig page textbook (suggesting to AR)
On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 7:06 AM, Maria Droujkova wrote: > The blurb says "not for dummies engaging style." I want a book like > that, well, not for dummies, but for people who may already harbor > significant math anxiety. They tend to disengage seeing certain > artifacts or representations... > Yes, very true. Also on the edu-sig page, check out the Sande book under "for kids": http://www.python.org/community/sigs/current/edu-sig/ > Hello World! Computer Programming for Kids and Other Beginners by Warren > Sande is just like the title says. It actually gets a lot deeper into Python than the Litvin text, which is more into the use of mathy formalisms, common to CS and not-CS alike. And yet the Sande book is written in a friendlier style for even younger kids, as a kind of father-son dialog (Carter, the son, is a real boy, albeit a gifted one who really likes Python). How we're thinking in Oregon is we'll use the Litvin text at the high school level, but with the reassuring "joke" in many cases that our students will already be beyond the Litvin level with Python coming in, i.e. they'll have studied Sande or something similar. This will reduce their anxiety of needing to learn both a programming language *and* math formalisms in one cycle. They'll feel more like ahead-of-the-pack gifted insiders in already having the requisite Python savvy and then some. That's smart pedagogy by the way. As soon as you call it "remedial" you've proved you're not a smart teacher, as you've saddled students with a label that works against them. So many colleges and universities fall into the trap of offering "remedial" this and that -- not so smart as Princeton, which would call it "Python for Thespians" or something (and it wouldn't be a lie -- Princeton big into theater, always has been). >From the blurb: """ Some students may choose to study AP Computer Science in high school, or major in CS in college. Others may decide to go into math, science, law, art, social sciences, or humanities. Regardless of your goals, Mathematics for the Digital Age and Programming in Python will help you gain a better understanding of the computerized world around you. """ Oregon universities tend to not accept AP compsci (unlike Utah) so it makes more sense to look at the Litvins' book as part of our discrete math track (pre-college), standard pre-law and/or pre-med you might say (rule of thumb). We conflate "medical" with "engineering" in this neck of the woods as well (lots of shovel ready bioinformatics, Python a player). I like your phrase "cowbell". Our goal in this region is to produce more animations about technical subjects. You can call them cartoons, but they're made by computer and look at topics like the effects of drugs in the body, but at a higher level of technical detail than you see in most drug pushing commercials on television (those are "comics" in the more "clown like" sense). Kirby > I think this book is a very cool resource and I intend to use it. With > the kind of students I have in mind, we may need to create our own. > With more cowbell (or, as Kirby put it earlier, comics). > > -- > Cheers, > MariaD > > Make math your own, to make your own math. > > http://www.naturalmath.com social math site > http://www.phenixsolutions.com empowering our innovations > > On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 12:15 PM, kirby urner wrote: >> Both, per the back cover: >> >> """ >> Some students may choose to study AP Computer Science in high school, >> or major in CS in college. Others may decide to go into math, >> science, law, art, social sciences, or humanities. Regardless of your >> goals, Mathematics for the Digital Age and Programming in Python will >> help you gain a better understanding of the computerized world around >> you. >> """ >> >> ... definitely looking at high school in Oregon, on a math track, not >> a CS track per se, as the Silicon Forest lobby here is working with >> our state legislature to have discrete math alternatives that segue to >> college and private industry tracks, e.g. we could use this in place >> of Algebra 2. >> >> Kirby >> >> >> On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 9:12 AM, Andre Roberge >> wrote: >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 1:07 PM, kirby urner wrote: http://www.skylit.com/mathandpython.html I have desk review copy, think many will appreciate the quasi-seamless blend of old and gnu world typographies, i.e. sigma and set notation, with concepts of iterator, types, functions etc. >>> >>> Would this be appropriate for high school students, or as a first CS course >>> for non Computer Science majors ? >>> >>> André >>> Reminiscent of 'Concrete Mathematics' though less difficult and explicitly Python based. For those training to read algebra, higher math, this is a friendly introduction (no cartoons or comics though -- gets you prepared for the somber dryness of the ambient literature). Kirby _
Re: [Edu-sig] another edu-sig page textbook (suggesting to AR)
The blurb says "not for dummies engaging style." I want a book like that, well, not for dummies, but for people who may already harbor significant math anxiety. They tend to disengage seeing certain artifacts or representations... I think this book is a very cool resource and I intend to use it. With the kind of students I have in mind, we may need to create our own. With more cowbell (or, as Kirby put it earlier, comics). -- Cheers, MariaD Make math your own, to make your own math. http://www.naturalmath.com social math site http://www.phenixsolutions.com empowering our innovations On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 12:15 PM, kirby urner wrote: > Both, per the back cover: > > """ > Some students may choose to study AP Computer Science in high school, > or major in CS in college. Others may decide to go into math, > science, law, art, social sciences, or humanities. Regardless of your > goals, Mathematics for the Digital Age and Programming in Python will > help you gain a better understanding of the computerized world around > you. > """ > > ... definitely looking at high school in Oregon, on a math track, not > a CS track per se, as the Silicon Forest lobby here is working with > our state legislature to have discrete math alternatives that segue to > college and private industry tracks, e.g. we could use this in place > of Algebra 2. > > Kirby > > > On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 9:12 AM, Andre Roberge > wrote: >> >> >> On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 1:07 PM, kirby urner wrote: >>> >>> http://www.skylit.com/mathandpython.html >>> >>> I have desk review copy, think many will appreciate the quasi-seamless >>> blend of old and gnu world typographies, i.e. sigma and set notation, >>> with concepts of iterator, types, functions etc. >> >> Would this be appropriate for high school students, or as a first CS course >> for non Computer Science majors ? >> >> André >> >>> >>> Reminiscent of 'Concrete Mathematics' though less difficult and >>> explicitly Python based. >>> >>> For those training to read algebra, higher math, this is a friendly >>> introduction (no cartoons or comics though -- gets you prepared for >>> the somber dryness of the ambient literature). >>> >>> Kirby >>> ___ ___ Edu-sig mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
Re: [Edu-sig] another edu-sig page textbook (suggesting to AR)
Another thought is maybe edu-sig page is an appropriate place to provide contact info for Vern Ceder. The thought there is to have someone to help coordinate a more academically flavored poster space wherein we showcase interesting applications of Python where the sponsor (helping pay for hotel floorspace) might not be a private company booth exhibitor but a university or NGO or publisher or whatever. User groups might have their own contests why not? I'm not saying the edu-sig page should get into all this, as it aims to stay brief and uncluttered, just thinking we need some way to suggest the "science fair" aspect of future Pycons (the idea originates with Steve Holden in response to BOF-expressed desires to get teachers more involved, Pycon having a predominantly business flavor, with Jeff Rush going so far as to suggest a whole separate EduPycon, which idea I've continued to float, as worthy of consideration, including in edu-sig threads why not? These slides from some random GIS conference in Oregon, where I talked about Python (familiar through ESRI), show what a conference is like when split between private companies and academia, I'm sure a familiar site to most of you already, just not quite what Pycon has been like (which is where Vern comes in): http://worldgame.blogspot.com/2009/04/gis-2009.html Somewhat unrelated, I'd welcome any comments on my What is a Scripting Language? answer, something I might point to in a kind of FAQ mode (emailed question about Python being "a scripting language"). BTW I'm glad the edu-sig page still points to Software Carpentry under Miscellaneous (where we also link to my stuff) as I think we're also a gateway for system administrator types who choose a non-CS degree path (similar to the math track people we're tagging with the aforesaid title mentioned below). http://controlroom.blogspot.com/2009/04/whats-scripting-language.html CP4E and/or P4E never meant turning everyone into CS majors right? We should make sure that the "education" in edu-sig is far broader than CS departments reaching out, advertising they teach in that language (among others), although they're welcome to do that of course (we welcome "converts" or whatever). Kirby On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 9:15 AM, kirby urner wrote: > Both, per the back cover: > > """ > Some students may choose to study AP Computer Science in high school, > or major in CS in college. Others may decide to go into math, > science, law, art, social sciences, or humanities. Regardless of your > goals, Mathematics for the Digital Age and Programming in Python will > help you gain a better understanding of the computerized world around > you. > """ > > ... definitely looking at high school in Oregon, on a math track, not > a CS track per se, as the Silicon Forest lobby here is working with > our state legislature to have discrete math alternatives that segue to > college and private industry tracks, e.g. we could use this in place > of Algebra 2. > > Kirby > > > On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 9:12 AM, Andre Roberge > wrote: >> >> >> On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 1:07 PM, kirby urner wrote: >>> >>> http://www.skylit.com/mathandpython.html >>> >>> I have desk review copy, think many will appreciate the quasi-seamless >>> blend of old and gnu world typographies, i.e. sigma and set notation, >>> with concepts of iterator, types, functions etc. >> >> Would this be appropriate for high school students, or as a first CS course >> for non Computer Science majors ? >> >> André >> >>> >>> Reminiscent of 'Concrete Mathematics' though less difficult and >>> explicitly Python based. >>> >>> For those training to read algebra, higher math, this is a friendly >>> introduction (no cartoons or comics though -- gets you prepared for >>> the somber dryness of the ambient literature). >>> >>> Kirby >>> ___ >>> Edu-sig mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig >> >> > ___ Edu-sig mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
Re: [Edu-sig] another edu-sig page textbook (suggesting to AR)
Both, per the back cover: """ Some students may choose to study AP Computer Science in high school, or major in CS in college. Others may decide to go into math, science, law, art, social sciences, or humanities. Regardless of your goals, Mathematics for the Digital Age and Programming in Python will help you gain a better understanding of the computerized world around you. """ ... definitely looking at high school in Oregon, on a math track, not a CS track per se, as the Silicon Forest lobby here is working with our state legislature to have discrete math alternatives that segue to college and private industry tracks, e.g. we could use this in place of Algebra 2. Kirby On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 9:12 AM, Andre Roberge wrote: > > > On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 1:07 PM, kirby urner wrote: >> >> http://www.skylit.com/mathandpython.html >> >> I have desk review copy, think many will appreciate the quasi-seamless >> blend of old and gnu world typographies, i.e. sigma and set notation, >> with concepts of iterator, types, functions etc. > > Would this be appropriate for high school students, or as a first CS course > for non Computer Science majors ? > > André > >> >> Reminiscent of 'Concrete Mathematics' though less difficult and >> explicitly Python based. >> >> For those training to read algebra, higher math, this is a friendly >> introduction (no cartoons or comics though -- gets you prepared for >> the somber dryness of the ambient literature). >> >> Kirby >> ___ >> Edu-sig mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > > ___ Edu-sig mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
Re: [Edu-sig] another edu-sig page textbook (suggesting to AR)
On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 1:07 PM, kirby urner wrote: > http://www.skylit.com/mathandpython.html > > I have desk review copy, think many will appreciate the quasi-seamless > blend of old and gnu world typographies, i.e. sigma and set notation, > with concepts of iterator, types, functions etc. > Would this be appropriate for high school students, or as a first CS course for non Computer Science majors ? André > > Reminiscent of 'Concrete Mathematics' though less difficult and > explicitly Python based. > > For those training to read algebra, higher math, this is a friendly > introduction (no cartoons or comics though -- gets you prepared for > the somber dryness of the ambient literature). > > Kirby > ___ > Edu-sig mailing list > [email protected] > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > ___ Edu-sig mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
