Re: [Ekiga-list] Privacy policy of Ekiga
Stefan Monnier wrote: I hope you will be able to point me to the privacy statements of Ekiga or otherwise You will take this subject very seriously. Are you talking about ekiga or ekiga.net? I think both are really important, is it not? Not really: the Ekiga application is just that: an application. It happens to use the network, just like Firefox, but it doesn't (modulo bugs or nasty people adding backdoors) connect to any machine to which you haven't explicitly asked it to connect. I don't think a privacy statement is important here. You seem to assume that Ekiga is an organization, in the way that Skype is an organization. It is not at all the same thing: Skype is a commercial organization with a proprietary product and service; Ekiga is an open source application, and there is a community that supports and uses it. To use myself as an example, the only information that ekiga.net has access to are my name and email address. There need be no privacy statement, since there is no collection of personal data, such as Skype might require and use. The fact that Ekiga.net is not commercial doesn't make much difference: it does keep a database of users with their email address and names, and (more importantly) it does keep track of which ones are connected and from where, so it know about IP addresses and may potentially keep a log of when which user connected with which IP. And the police may order Damien to give out some of that info, or some dire financial need (or juicy offer) may push Damien to sell that info. So a privacy statement explaining what info is kept (e.g. is a log of IP addresses kept?), that to which it is intended (e.g. it's not intended to be distributed to any third party, except the name database which is freely searchable, IIUC), and the worst case guarantee (all the data may be stolen, subpoena'd, sold, ...). Stefan ___ ekiga-list mailing list ekiga-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/ekiga-list D Webb wrote: I assume that everything I read, write, upload or download on the Internet and dates, times and IP addresses are being recorded by several governmental agencies at any given moment. Thus far, I have rarely been proven wrong. I assume everything I do on the Internet could just as well have been shouted at the top of my lungs in a football stadium. It is in this sense that I think privacy statements, while being a profitable marketing gesture for a business, offers no more privacy than no statement at all. Let us say you are going to tell someone over Ekiga about some terrible crime you will commit. Do you really think you will escape police intervention or a prison sentence because of a privacy statement? I guess you could try and file a lawsuit from a prison cell, but would it not be easier to accept my interpretation of VoIP as shouting in a football stadium? Finally, a lawyer could butt in and tell us all these complicated issues and scenarios and pitfalls, and the infinite variances in different countries. Again, would it not be easier to just assume you are shouting in a football stadium and just accept the Internet does not have much mercy for privacy? Dominic Of course the governments and police can get at a given time (as exception) access to data stored on the internet. But, at least in the Netherlands, also the government and the police have to respect laws and rules. So the comparison with information that is shouted in a stadium is not right here. It's also not a good attitude of the citizens of a country to just accept that everyone can violate your privacy. Citizens should put effort in making good rules for privacy or to protect it. Privacy is a human right of a democracy. And there is more then police and government. The police and government are not the first and also not the second reason to have a privacy policy. The first reason is that you as a user, have the right to know what is happening with your given or received data. On the basis of the policy you can decide whether or not you are going to use that service. So Ekiga as a service can at least give information how they handle the information with or without given guarantees. Second it is also good to know if a service will doing at least there best to take care about privacy. The fact that other service store information for a long time, set cookies, or even give or sell information to third parties (advertisement companies for example) makes a privacy policy useful or necessary for a service as Ekiga. I don't want a service that is gathering information and give it to third parties and so I like to know of Ekiga what there policy is in this case. And I think it is something that a service like Ekiga should have, because it is important how a service is dealing with your
Re: [Ekiga-list] Privacy policy of Ekiga
rules. So the comparison with information that is shouted in a stadium is not right here. It's also not a good attitude of the citizens of a country to just accept that everyone can violate your privacy. Citizens should put effort in making good rules for privacy or to protect it. Privacy is a human right of a democracy. Right, wrong, the law and self-preservation are 4 different things with infinite permutations of interpretation. Please consider thinking of your privacy much like your bicycle, you from the Netherlands. You will want laws to punish bicycle thieves AND a strong lock. The law exists because there are people who do not follow it. I expect privacy laws and the corresponding violators to co-exist. I do not see privacy statements helping much. Dee _ Windows Live Hotmail is giving away Zunes. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/ZuneADay/?locale=en-USocid=TXT_TAGLM_Mobile_Zune_V3___ ekiga-list mailing list ekiga-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/ekiga-list
Re: [Ekiga-list] Privacy policy of Ekiga
D Webb wrote: rules. So the comparison with information that is shouted in a stadium is not right here. It's also not a good attitude of the citizens of a country to just accept that everyone can violate your privacy. Citizens should put effort in making good rules for privacy or to protect it. Privacy is a human right of a democracy. Right, wrong, the law and self-preservation are 4 different things with infinite permutations of interpretation. Please consider thinking of your privacy much like your bicycle, you from the Netherlands. You will want laws to punish bicycle thieves AND a strong lock. The law exists because there are people who do not follow it. I expect privacy laws and the corresponding violators to co-exist. I do not see privacy statements helping much. Dee I think you're right on this point, although Ekiga should, in my opinion, do there best to protect my information against potential violators But it seems that you not really understand what I was trying to say. It's not only about protecting information against violators outside, but as a user I want to know the policy of* Ekiga itself.* What are they doing with my information. That's what I want to know before I will use a service like Ekiga. And I think they should put there policy, like many other comparable services, on there website. Privacy for a internet service like Ekiga is an important issue. That's why I was a little surprised by the reaction of developer Damien (with respect), who said that he finds writing a privacy policy boring or hasn't enough time for it. I think if you're offering a service like this and like to have a lot of users, the first thing you should do is doing your best to protect your users against violations of all kind and give them information about how you deal with the privacy of your users. That's at least the right your users have. I like to help spreading the word about Ekiga, but I'd like to do that with the knowledge that the service has a good and open privacy policy. Kind regards, Dirk ___ ekiga-list mailing list ekiga-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/ekiga-list
Re: [Ekiga-list] Privacy policy of Ekiga
I hope you will be able to point me to the privacy statements of Ekiga or otherwise You will take this subject very seriously. Are you talking about ekiga or ekiga.net? I think both are really important, is it not? Not really: the Ekiga application is just that: an application. It happens to use the network, just like Firefox, but it doesn't (modulo bugs or nasty people adding backdoors) connect to any machine to which you haven't explicitly asked it to connect. I don't think a privacy statement is important here. You seem to assume that Ekiga is an organization, in the way that Skype is an organization. It is not at all the same thing: Skype is a commercial organization with a proprietary product and service; Ekiga is an open source application, and there is a community that supports and uses it. To use myself as an example, the only information that ekiga.net has access to are my name and email address. There need be no privacy statement, since there is no collection of personal data, such as Skype might require and use. The fact that Ekiga.net is not commercial doesn't make much difference: it does keep a database of users with their email address and names, and (more importantly) it does keep track of which ones are connected and from where, so it know about IP addresses and may potentially keep a log of when which user connected with which IP. And the police may order Damien to give out some of that info, or some dire financial need (or juicy offer) may push Damien to sell that info. So a privacy statement explaining what info is kept (e.g. is a log of IP addresses kept?), that to which it is intended (e.g. it's not intended to be distributed to any third party, except the name database which is freely searchable, IIUC), and the worst case guarantee (all the data may be stolen, subpoena'd, sold, ...). Stefan ___ ekiga-list mailing list ekiga-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/ekiga-list
Re: [Ekiga-list] Privacy policy of Ekiga
I assume that everything I read, write, upload or download on the Internet and dates, times and IP addresses are being recorded by several governmental agencies at any given moment. Thus far, I have rarely been proven wrong. I assume everything I do on the Internet could just as well have been shouted at the top of my lungs in a football stadium. It is in this sense that I think privacy statements, while being a profitable marketing gesture for a business, offers no more privacy than no statement at all. Let us say you are going to tell someone over Ekiga about some terrible crime you will commit. Do you really think you will escape police intervention or a prison sentence because of a privacy statement? I guess you could try and file a lawsuit from a prison cell, but would it not be easier to accept my interpretation of VoIP as shouting in a football stadium? Finally, a lawyer could butt in and tell us all these complicated issues and scenarios and pitfalls, and the infinite variances in different countries. Again, would it not be easier to just assume you are shouting in a football stadium and just accept the Internet does not have much mercy for privacy? Dominic _ Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan___ ekiga-list mailing list ekiga-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/ekiga-list
Re: [Ekiga-list] Privacy policy of Ekiga
Mike Fedyk wrote: BBB template http://www.bbbonline.org/privacy/sample_privacy.asp or another template http://www.perfectlyprivate.com/easy_template.shtml These two look good. The OECD one is geared toward a large organization. Mike ___ ekiga-list mailing list ekiga-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/ekiga-list Hi all, I think the one of BBB is good, but also the other templates can help. As a 'user' I like the introduction, especially the second part: /Introduction: A good privacy notice is easy to find, easy to read, and comprehensively explains all your online information practices. _It also provides online visitors an opportunity to make informed decisions about the collection and use of their information._ As part of good business practices, posting a notice is an important first step in defining your online policies and towards answering one of the major concerns (and barriers) voiced by web-users when going online. _A privacy notice is also a promise. As a promise, it is not enough to simply post such a notice. _To effectively promote trust and confidence in you and your website, the provisions of a privacy notice must also be fully implemented as part of a larger privacy policy. Careful consideration should therefore go into the creation of a notice so it accurately reflects your own unique information practices and you can guarantee a faithful adherence to its provisions. /I'd like to help making it, but I think the developers and maintainers of Ekiga should say what there policy is, cause I do not know. Maybe they can make a policy in French and I am sure that we can find someone for a good English translation. Kind regards, Dirk ___ ekiga-list mailing list ekiga-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/ekiga-list
Re: [Ekiga-list] Privacy policy of Ekiga
Hello,
Le mardi 18 mars 2008 à 11:40 +0100, schoappied a écrit :
Mike Fedyk wrote:
BBB template http://www.bbbonline.org/privacy/sample_privacy.asp or
another template http://www.perfectlyprivate.com/easy_template.shtml
These two look good. The OECD one is geared toward a large organization.
Mike
___
ekiga-list mailing list
ekiga-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/ekiga-list
Hi all,
I think the one of BBB is good, but also the other templates can help.
As a 'user' I like the introduction, especially the second part:
/Introduction:
A good privacy notice is easy to find, easy to read, and comprehensively
explains all your online information practices. _It also provides online
visitors an opportunity to make informed decisions about the collection
and use of their information._ As part of good business practices,
posting a notice is an important first step in defining your online
policies and towards answering one of the major concerns (and barriers)
voiced by web-users when going online.
_A privacy notice is also a promise. As a promise, it is not enough to
simply post such a notice. _To effectively promote trust and confidence
in you and your website, the provisions of a privacy notice must also be
fully implemented as part of a larger privacy policy. Careful
consideration should therefore go into the creation of a notice so it
accurately reflects your own unique information practices and you can
guarantee a faithful adherence to its provisions.
/I'd like to help making it, but I think the developers and maintainers
of Ekiga should say what there policy is, cause I do not know. Maybe
they can make a policy in French and I am sure that we can find someone
for a good English translation.
I do not have the time to write a policy right now. As I said, it is a
time-consuming and boring thing to do. Moreover, we are jurists, so it
makes things even more complex.
However, I added a sentence in the terms and conditions text provided
by our signup interface. That sentence specifies that data will not be
made available to third parties.
The terms and conditions text is the one that can be found with the
Open Source SERWEB software. It is the WEB interface of our SIP Proxy.
The SIP Proxy is the only software that stores information about users
on a remote server, ie not on your own computer.
The text is the following :
BY PRESSING THE 'I ACCEPT' BUTTON, YOU (HEREINAFTER THE 'USER') ARE
STATING THAT YOU AGREE TO ACCEPT AND BE BOUND BY ALL OF THE TERMS AND
CONDITIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT. DO NOT PROCEED IF YOU ARE UNABLE TO AGREE
TO THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT. THESE TERMS AND
CONDITIONS OF SERVICE FOR USE OF ekiga.net SIP SERVER (THE 'AGREEMENT')
CONSTITUTE A LEGALLY BINDING CONTRACT BETWEEN ekiga.net
AND THE ENTITY THAT AGREES TO AND ACCEPTS THESE TERMS AND CONDITIONS.
ACCESS TO ekiga.net's SESSION INITIATION PROTOCOL SERVER
('SIP SERVER') IS BEING PROVIDED ON AN 'AS IS' AND 'AS AVAILABLE' BASIS,
AND ekiga.net MAKES NO REPRESENTATIONS OR WARRANTIES OF ANY
KIND, WHETHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, WITH RESPECT TO USER'S ACCESS OF THE
SIP SERVER, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY,
NONINFRINGEMENT, TITLE OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. FURTHER,
ekiga.net MAKES NO REPRESENTATIONS OR WARRANTIES THAT THE SIP
SERVER, OR USER'S ACCESS THERETO, WILL BE AVAILABLE AT ANY GIVEN TIME,
OR WILL BE FREE FROM ERRORS, DEFECTS, OMISSIONS, INACCURACIES, OR
FAILURES OR DELAYS IN DELIVERY OF DATA. USER ASSUMES, AND ekiga.net
DISCLAIM, TOTAL RISK, RESPONSIBILITY, AND LIABILITY FOR USER'S ACCESS TO
AND USE OF THE SIP SERVER.
Access to ekiga.net SIP Server is being provided on a
non-exclusive basis. User acknowledges and understands that
ekiga.net SIP site is in a developmental stage and that
ekiga.net makes no guarantees regarding the availability or
functionality thereof. User may not sublicense its access rights to the
SIP Server to any third party.
USER AGREES TO INDEMNIFY, DEFEND AND HOLD ekiga.org, ITS AFFILIATES,
DIRECTORS, OFFICERS, EMPLOYEES, AGENTS AND LICENSORS HARMLESS FROM AND
AGAINST ANY AND ALL CLAIMS, ACTIONS, EXPENSES, LOSSES, AND LIABILITIES
(INCLUDING COURTS COSTS AND REASONABLE ATTORNEYS' FEES),
ARISING FROM OR RELATING TO THIS AGREEMENT INCLUDING USER'S ACCESS TO
AND USE OF THE SIP SERVER TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE
LAW, IN NO EVENT SHALL ekiga.net OR ANY OF ITS LICENSORS, BE LIABLE
FOR ANY INDIRECT, SPECIAL, PUNITIVE, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL
DAMAGES, ARISING OUT OF THE ACCESS TO OR USE OF OR INABILITY TO ACCESS
OR USE THE SIP SERVER, OR THAT RESULT FROM MISTAKES, OMISSIONS,
INTERRUPTIONS, DELETIONS OF FILES, ERRORS, DEFECTS, DELAYS IN
TRANSMISSION OR OPERATION OR ANY FAILURE OF PERFORMANCE, EVEN IF ADVISED
OF THE
Re: [Ekiga-list] Privacy policy of Ekiga
Hi, Le lundi 17 mars 2008 à 19:41 +0100, schoappied a écrit : Hi, I'm a skype user, but I'm thinking about to try Ekiga. What I need to know is the privacy policy of Ekiga. I'm very surprised that there's nothing about it on the website and also nothing to set up in the settings of Ekiga. Even skype has it... Isn't necessary to have very clear rules about the privacy of your users? And shouldn't those rules be on your website? I hope you will be able to point me to the privacy statements of Ekiga or otherwise You will take this subject very seriously. Are you talking about ekiga or ekiga.net ? -- _ Damien Sandras (o- //\Ekiga Softphone : http://www.ekiga.org/ v_/_ NOVACOM : http://www.novacom.be/ FOSDEM : http://www.fosdem.org/ SIP Phone : sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ ekiga-list mailing list ekiga-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/ekiga-list
Re: [Ekiga-list] Privacy policy of Ekiga
Damien Sandras wrote: Hi, Le lundi 17 mars 2008 à 19:41 +0100, schoappied a écrit : Hi, I'm a skype user, but I'm thinking about to try Ekiga. What I need to know is the privacy policy of Ekiga. I'm very surprised that there's nothing about it on the website and also nothing to set up in the settings of Ekiga. Even skype has it... Isn't necessary to have very clear rules about the privacy of your users? And shouldn't those rules be on your website? I hope you will be able to point me to the privacy statements of Ekiga or otherwise You will take this subject very seriously. Are you talking about ekiga or ekiga.net ? I think both are really important, is it not? Dirk ___ ekiga-list mailing list ekiga-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/ekiga-list
Re: [Ekiga-list] Privacy policy of Ekiga
Le lundi 17 mars 2008 à 19:58 +0100, schoappied a écrit : Damien Sandras wrote: Hi, Le lundi 17 mars 2008 à 19:41 +0100, schoappied a écrit : Hi, I'm a skype user, but I'm thinking about to try Ekiga. What I need to know is the privacy policy of Ekiga. I'm very surprised that there's nothing about it on the website and also nothing to set up in the settings of Ekiga. Even skype has it... Isn't necessary to have very clear rules about the privacy of your users? And shouldn't those rules be on your website? I hope you will be able to point me to the privacy statements of Ekiga or otherwise You will take this subject very seriously. Are you talking about ekiga or ekiga.net ? I think both are really important, is it not? I do not understand what kind of user privacy you want to see stated related to ekiga. Do you mean encryption ? -- _ Damien Sandras (o- //\Ekiga Softphone : http://www.ekiga.org/ v_/_ NOVACOM : http://www.novacom.be/ FOSDEM : http://www.fosdem.org/ SIP Phone : sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ ekiga-list mailing list ekiga-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/ekiga-list
Re: [Ekiga-list] Privacy policy of Ekiga
Damien Sandras wrote: Le lundi 17 mars 2008 à 19:58 +0100, schoappied a écrit : Damien Sandras wrote: Hi, Le lundi 17 mars 2008 à 19:41 +0100, schoappied a écrit : Hi, I'm a skype user, but I'm thinking about to try Ekiga. What I need to know is the privacy policy of Ekiga. I'm very surprised that there's nothing about it on the website and also nothing to set up in the settings of Ekiga. Even skype has it... Isn't necessary to have very clear rules about the privacy of your users? And shouldn't those rules be on your website? I hope you will be able to point me to the privacy statements of Ekiga or otherwise You will take this subject very seriously. Are you talking about ekiga or ekiga.net ? I think both are really important, is it not? I do not understand what kind of user privacy you want to see stated related to ekiga. Do you mean encryption ? Damien, As a 'user' of a internetservice, like internet chat or phone, I want to know which information will be gathered and stored by the service. If they use information, what for and if there giving or selling information to third party's. Also I like to know how they protect there users against violations of privacy. Do you store for example the chat or call sessions? Do you store who call who and when? And if so, how can we as users delete 'history' or change the setting so that that sort of information will not be stored. It is not a specific distrust of Ekiga, but in my opinion every internet service should be protecting there users for misuse or privacy violations and they should be open about there privacy rules. I think it would be good if Ekiga can ensure there users that there privacy will not be violated by the service and that Ekiga shall do there best to protect there users against it. A sort of statement. As a user I can read that statement/ policy and can decide whether or not I will use that service. Here are some examples: http://www.skype.com/legal/privacy/general/ http://privacy.microsoft.com/en-us/default.aspx http://www.voipbuster.com/en/privacy.html http://www.digium.com/en/company/view-policy.php?id=Privacy-Policy I think your service and software will be more 'open' if you're open, honest and clear about this, for every (potential) user. Best regards, Dirk ___ ekiga-list mailing list ekiga-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/ekiga-list
Re: [Ekiga-list] Privacy policy of Ekiga
On Monday 17 March 2008 11:58:27 schoappied wrote: Damien Sandras wrote: I hope you will be able to point me to the privacy statements of Ekiga or otherwise You will take this subject very seriously. Are you talking about ekiga or ekiga.net ? I think both are really important, is it not? You seem to assume that Ekiga is an organization, in the way that Skype is an organization. It is not at all the same thing: Skype is a commercial organization with a proprietary product and service; Ekiga is an open source application, and there is a community that supports and uses it. To use myself as an example, the only information that ekiga.net has access to are my name and email address. There need be no privacy statement, since there is no collection of personal data, such as Skype might require and use. Does that help? Cam -- Cam Ellison Ph.D. R.Psych. #01417 Cam Ellison Associates Ltd. Management Psychology 3446 Beach Avenue Roberts Creek BC V0N 2W2 Phone: 604.885.4806 Fax: 604.885.4809 Cell: 604.989.0635 ___ ekiga-list mailing list ekiga-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/ekiga-list
Re: [Ekiga-list] Privacy policy of Ekiga
Le lundi 17 mars 2008 à 20:32 +0100, schoappied a écrit : Damien, As a 'user' of a internetservice, like internet chat or phone, I want to know which information will be gathered and stored by the service. If they use information, what for and if there giving or selling information to third party's. Also I like to know how they protect there users against violations of privacy. Do you store for example the chat or call sessions? Do you store who call who and when? And if so, how can we as users delete 'history' or change the setting so that that sort of information will not be stored. It is not a specific distrust of Ekiga, but in my opinion every internet service should be protecting there users for misuse or privacy violations and they should be open about there privacy rules. I think it would be good if Ekiga can ensure there users that there privacy will not be violated by the service and that Ekiga shall do there best to protect there users against it. A sort of statement. As a user I can read that statement/ policy and can decide whether or not I will use that service. Here are some examples: http://www.skype.com/legal/privacy/general/ http://privacy.microsoft.com/en-us/default.aspx http://www.voipbuster.com/en/privacy.html http://www.digium.com/en/company/view-policy.php?id=Privacy-Policy I think your service and software will be more 'open' if you're open, honest and clear about this, for every (potential) user. We only store user names and e-mail addresses and are not a commercial company, so perhaps it does not really make sense (as reported by Cam Ellison). However, it can not harm if we add such a notice somewhere. It is on the TODO : http://wiki.ekiga.org/index.php/Ekiga.net_VoIP_service_subscription#What_about_privacy_and_VoIP_services_.3F -- _ Damien Sandras (o- //\Ekiga Softphone : http://www.ekiga.org/ v_/_ NOVACOM : http://www.novacom.be/ FOSDEM : http://www.fosdem.org/ SIP Phone : sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ ekiga-list mailing list ekiga-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/ekiga-list
Re: [Ekiga-list] Privacy policy of Ekiga
Damien Sandras wrote: Le lundi 17 mars 2008 à 20:32 +0100, schoappied a écrit : Damien, As a 'user' of a internetservice, like internet chat or phone, I want to know which information will be gathered and stored by the service. If they use information, what for and if there giving or selling information to third party's. Also I like to know how they protect there users against violations of privacy. Do you store for example the chat or call sessions? Do you store who call who and when? And if so, how can we as users delete 'history' or change the setting so that that sort of information will not be stored. It is not a specific distrust of Ekiga, but in my opinion every internet service should be protecting there users for misuse or privacy violations and they should be open about there privacy rules. I think it would be good if Ekiga can ensure there users that there privacy will not be violated by the service and that Ekiga shall do there best to protect there users against it. A sort of statement. As a user I can read that statement/ policy and can decide whether or not I will use that service. Here are some examples: http://www.skype.com/legal/privacy/general/ http://privacy.microsoft.com/en-us/default.aspx http://www.voipbuster.com/en/privacy.html http://www.digium.com/en/company/view-policy.php?id=Privacy-Policy I think your service and software will be more 'open' if you're open, honest and clear about this, for every (potential) user. We only store user names and e-mail addresses and are not a commercial company, so perhaps it does not really make sense (as reported by Cam Ellison). However, it can not harm if we add such a notice somewhere. It is on the TODO : http://wiki.ekiga.org/index.php/Ekiga.net_VoIP_service_subscription#What_about_privacy_and_VoIP_services_.3F Thanks for your replies. I do disagree with your statements about that privacy statements is only or more needed for commercial services or organisations. I agree with you that some issues are more likely to happen when the service or organisation is commercial (e.g. selling information to third party's). But the chance that for example, others can get access to stored chat sessions (don't like to find my chat with my girlfriend on Google) or that people inside or outside the project will misuse the service, seems to me almost equal, and has nothing to do with open source or community based. I'm pleased that the 'statement/ policy' is on the TODO list. Although I think it's more important then just 'it can not harm'. I think the service and the software will be better for us, the users, if we know what the policy of Ekiga is and we don't have to worry about the privacy. I also think that more people want to switch from Skype to Ekiga if Ekiga can give some clear statements and guarantees about the privacy, because I know that there're a lot of people who do not like the policy of Skype or are a doubting about the policy of (for them) vague 'open source' communities. Please let me know if your policy is on the website, so I can know if and/ or how information is stored and how I can remove that or prevent it. I promise that I'll try Ekiga when I can agree with your policy ;) Thanks again and good luck with your project, cause I'd like to see more people switching from Skype to good alternatives and off course I'd like to enjoy a good internet phone service myself! Regards, Dirk ___ ekiga-list mailing list ekiga-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/ekiga-list
Re: [Ekiga-list] Privacy policy of Ekiga
Damien Sandras wrote: Le lundi 17 mars 2008 à 21:41 +0100, schoappied a écrit : [...] However, it can not harm if we add such a notice somewhere. It is on the TODO : http://wiki.ekiga.org/index.php/Ekiga.net_VoIP_service_subscription#What_about_privacy_and_VoIP_services_.3F Thanks for your replies. I do disagree with your statements about that privacy statements is only or more needed for commercial services or organisations. I agree with you that some issues are more likely to happen when the service or organisation is commercial (e.g. selling information to third party's). But the chance that for example, others can get access to stored chat sessions (don't like to find my chat with my girlfriend on Google) or that people inside or outside the project will misuse the service, seems to me almost equal, and has nothing to do with open source or community based. I'm pleased that the 'statement/ policy' is on the TODO list. Although I think it's more important then just 'it can not harm'. I think the service and the software will be better for us, the users, if we know what the policy of Ekiga is and we don't have to worry about the privacy. I also think that more people want to switch from Skype to Ekiga if Ekiga can give some clear statements and guarantees about the privacy, because I know that there're a lot of people who do not like the policy of Skype or are a doubting about the policy of (for them) vague 'open source' communities. Please let me know if your policy is on the website, so I can know if and/ or how information is stored and how I can remove that or prevent it. I promise that I'll try Ekiga when I can agree with your policy ;) I'm not really a legal person. What do you mean? Moreover English is not my native language. Not mine too, that's dutch... Could you propose some text that we can put on the website after a review ? Only email addresses and first name / last name informations are stored in a database. This information will not be made public or given to third-parties. I'd like to help you, although I do not have any experience with this kind of stuff. I think what you can do is putting on your website how Ekiga handles information. So saying that information will not be made public or given to third parties is a start. Maybe you can make it possible to register without having to give your first and family name? Often there's a '*' for the information which is absolutely needed and the further information is optional You can make first and family name optional. Further you can use the skype privacy statements as a example. They give answers to a couple of 'possible' questions. http://www.skype.com/legal/privacy/general/ Look what's relevant to Ekiga and answer them, don't use the ones which a irrelevant to Ekiga and think if there're other questions/ answers which are relevant to the project. Keep it short. /'Basically, I do not want to give any guarantee about anything as an individual (imagine the server gets cracked for some reason, I do not want to be held responsible for that).' /I think you can say that you will not be responsible for anything, a sort of disclaimer. Here's a example of Ubuntu/ Canonical's website: /Disclaimer/ /This website and all information, products and services on it are provided on an “as is” basis, without warranty of any kind, either express or implied. Your use of this website is at your own risk. Canonical Ltd. disclaims all warranties, express or implied, including without limitation, warranties of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose. / /Canonical Ltd. disclaims liability for any direct, indirect, incidental, special, consequential, exemplary, punitive or other damages, or lost profits, that may result directly or indirectly from the use of this website and any material that is downloaded or obtained through the use of this website. / /This includes, without limitation, any damage to computer systems, hardware or software, loss of data, or any other performance failures, any errors, bugs, viruses or other defects that result from, or are associated with the use of this website. / /Yes, it gives most of us a headache to read all of this, but it's important so thank you for your patience and now, enjoy the site! / / /I don't know if you are from the Dutch speaking site of Belgium...? Maybe you can give me the information and I think I can ask someone who can give a good English translation, or better, maybe there's someone on the list who can write English very well? Regards, Dirk ___ ekiga-list mailing list ekiga-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/ekiga-list
Re: [Ekiga-list] Privacy policy of Ekiga
Le lundi 17 mars 2008 à 22:23 +0100, schoappied a écrit : [...] I'm not really a legal person. What do you mean? A jurist used to write and read legal stuff. [...] /I don't know if you are from the Dutch speaking site of Belgium...? I'm from the french speaking part. Maybe you can give me the information and I think I can ask someone who can give a good English translation, or better, maybe there's someone on the list who can write English very well? Perhaps somebody on the list can even write something down so that we can publish the text as is? Anyone ? I have added this sentence to the registration text on ekiga.net : Ekiga.net will not make information used when subscribing available to third-parties. -- _ Damien Sandras (o- //\Ekiga Softphone : http://www.ekiga.org/ v_/_ NOVACOM : http://www.novacom.be/ FOSDEM : http://www.fosdem.org/ SIP Phone : sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ ekiga-list mailing list ekiga-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/ekiga-list
Re: [Ekiga-list] Privacy policy of Ekiga
On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 2:38 PM, Damien Sandras [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Le lundi 17 mars 2008 à 22:23 +0100, schoappied a écrit : Perhaps somebody on the list can even write something down so that we can publish the text as is? You could try the free OECD privacy policy generatorhttp://www.oecd.org/document/39/0,3343,en_2649_34255_28863271_1_1_1_1,00.html, or use the BBB templatehttp://www.bbbonline.org/privacy/sample_privacy.aspor another template http://www.perfectlyprivate.com/easy_template.shtml I found. --Dean ___ ekiga-list mailing list ekiga-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/ekiga-list
Re: [Ekiga-list] Privacy policy of Ekiga
http://www.bbbonline.org/privacy/sample_privacy.asp BBB template or another http://www.perfectlyprivate.com/easy_template.shtml template These two look good. The OECD one is geared toward a large organization. Mike ___ ekiga-list mailing list ekiga-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/ekiga-list
