Re: [Elecraft] Choosing A Battery For Ham Use
Does every one who buy's a QRP RANGER one get a cracked upper right hand foot? ARS N5GE __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Choosing A Battery For Ham Use
I am giving this one some serious thought. Anyone else have experience with it? http://www.portableuniversalpower.com/our-products/qrp-ranger/ Mark Lunday, WD4ELG Greensboro, NC FM06be wd4...@arrl.net http://wd4elg.blogspot.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Choosing A Battery For Ham Use
Thanks Jim! That'll get me started! __ Clay Autery, KY5G MONTAC Enterprises (318) 518-1389 On 6/30/2016 3:28 PM, Jim Brown wrote: > Hi Clay, > > Because this is of general interest, I'm replying to the list. > > First, LiFePO4 batteries are pretty much ideal for ham applications > because of their relatively flat discharge curve, and because their Ah > vs weight ratio is a good compromise. For example, an LiFePO4 pack > will be above 12.5 for about 80% of capacity and 12V for 90% of > capacity, while a lead-acid battery will drop below 12V before it > reaches 50% of capacity. > > Second, LiFePO4 batteries provide a LOT more charge-discharge cycles > if treated properly. The result is that if you're going to use them > for a lot of years, the longer life more than compensates for their > higher cost. > > Third, LiFePO4 batteries are MUCH safer than Li-ion batteries. > > Disadvantages of LiFePO4 are initial cost and the fact that they need > a special charger. However -- Bioenne told me that they can be safely > charged using the West Mountain SuperPWR Gate set for AGM batteries > and a power supply that is adjusted to about 14.5 volts. The AGM > setting of the PwrGate limits the charging voltage to 14.2V, which is > what LiFePO4 batteries need. Also, LiFePO4 batteries do NOT like to > be discharged below about 95%, so care must be taken not to fully > discharge them. Good battery packs will have control circuity that > prevents this. > > Now, as to how much battery to buy. Start by studying current draw of > the radio(s) and other equipment that you'll use with the battery, > taking TX/RX duty cycle into account. Also look at weight if you're > going to carry it. I bought a 20Ah pack (5.5#) to loan to a friend > who was going to pack several miles uphill to activate a rare 6M grid > with a KX3 and the 100W amp, and I just bought a 100Ah pack (26#) to > run my SO2R shack. If I were going to pack with a KX2 or KX3, I'd buy > something much smaller, like 6 - 12 Ah (2 - 4#), or even smaller. > Your application carrying a K3/P3 around to chase RFI pulls about > 1.6A, (1.8A with the SVGA module in the P3). A KX3 plus PX3 pulls > about 350 mA at max screen brightness. > > Bioenne (and other vendors) package their LiFePO4 batteries more than > one way for the same Ah capacity, often to retrofit into existing > gear. With Bioenne batteries, I chose the PVC pack, which is lighter > weight than the rectangular "solid" format. > > Bioenne and other battery vendors do NOT say that their chargers are > RF-quiet, which is why you would use a PowerGate and known clean > supply. To charge from solar, buy a Genasun charge regulator, which IS > pretty RF-quiet. I've told Bioenne that they need to find quiet > chargers. We'll see how they respond. > > As to voltages -- I would ONLY buy 12V nominal to power ham gear. If > you need other voltages for other gear, look at > http://www.batteryspace.com which carries a MUCH broader range of > batteries. They're also good people, located in the SF Bay area. > Bioenne is in Santa Ana, CA. > > I've chosen to avoid voltage boost products, which are essentially > SMPS, and noisy. Yes, you can set them to be active only on TX, but if > you're running two radios, the one you aren't TXing on will hear the > noise. > > As to charging -- LiFePO4 batteries will last a lot longer if they are > not fast-charged. A good rule of thumb is their 4 hour or 10 hour > discharge current. In other words, for a 20Ah battery, avoid more than > about 5A charge current. > > If you're sizing the battery to power your shack and will be float > charging it, the charge current can be added to the capacity to figure > how much battery you need. In my application, with worst case of SO2R > contesting at 100W, I'll be TX on one radio or the other almost all > the time, so I'm looking at roughly 12A worst case. If I wasn't doing > SO2R, I could get by with a smaller battery. > > For non-critical applications like video monitors, router, cable > modem, etc, I'm using el-cheapo lead acid batteries from my hamfest > stash, and floating them from suitably sized linear wall warts. I've > found that for most gear, voltage is not all that critical. For > example, my Samsung computer monitors are sold with a 14VDC wall wart, > but were still running fine when my lead-acid battery had dropped to > 10.5 volts. > > I've looked around a lot, and so far have not found a better practical > battery chemistry than LiFePO4. > > Another important point. For running electronics of all types, we do > NOT want automotive batteries, which are primarily designed to provide > a big hunk of current to start the engine, but which don't like to be > deeply discharged. Instead, we want deep discharge types. Pay > attention to this when selecting a battery. > > 73, Jim K9YC > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home:
Re: [Elecraft] Choosing A Battery For Ham Use
I'm also replying to the list. Jim's advice and observations [I left them on this] are in total agreement with mine. My LiFePO4 A123 4S1P pack powers my K2 for way longer than I choose to sit on the ground on some SOTA peak. With the K2, over-discharge is self-limiting -- at what amounts to full discharge on the pack, the voltage drops very quickly and the K2 shuts down. Store them with about 75-80% charge. I've had one LiPoly RC pack burst into flames while operating in a Spartan Sprint with my KX1. Fortunately, I was out on the deck, and more fortunately, had the pack on a pigtail external to the KX1 and could fling it over onto the gravel driveway. I understand their use and good attributes in the RC-world, my only advice is charge them outside. :-) Yes, LiFePO4's do require a cell-balancing charger [some say they don't, but then some say the moon landings were faked too], and this complicates a situation where you want to power your station from batteries on a float charger. If ounces matter to you, LiPoly is probably the lightest for the capacity. Hard to beat LiFePO4 if you can tolerate a little more weight however. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2016 - www.cqp.org On 6/30/2016 4:17 PM, Bill wrote: My RC hobby charger manages these batteries according to specs. I have not tried but am ready to pull the plug to use them to charge my LIPOs in the field to enjoy more operation time. Any thoughts or experience appreciated. I do RC via boats, cars and sailplanes. Bill K9YEQ -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Brown Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 3:29 PM To: Reflector Elecraft <elecraft@mailman.qth.net> Subject: [Elecraft] Choosing A Battery For Ham Use Hi Clay, Because this is of general interest, I'm replying to the list. First, LiFePO4 batteries are pretty much ideal for ham applications because of their relatively flat discharge curve, and because their Ah vs weight ratio is a good compromise. For example, an LiFePO4 pack will be above 12.5 for about 80% of capacity and 12V for 90% of capacity, while a lead-acid battery will drop below 12V before it reaches 50% of capacity. Second, LiFePO4 batteries provide a LOT more charge-discharge cycles if treated properly. The result is that if you're going to use them for a lot of years, the longer life more than compensates for their higher cost. Third, LiFePO4 batteries are MUCH safer than Li-ion batteries. Disadvantages of LiFePO4 are initial cost and the fact that they need a special charger. However -- Bioenne told me that they can be safely charged using the West Mountain SuperPWR Gate set for AGM batteries and a power supply that is adjusted to about 14.5 volts. The AGM setting of the PwrGate limits the charging voltage to 14.2V, which is what LiFePO4 batteries need. Also, LiFePO4 batteries do NOT like to be discharged below about 95%, so care must be taken not to fully discharge them. Good battery packs will have control circuity that prevents this. Now, as to how much battery to buy. Start by studying current draw of the radio(s) and other equipment that you'll use with the battery, taking TX/RX duty cycle into account. Also look at weight if you're going to carry it. I bought a 20Ah pack (5.5#) to loan to a friend who was going to pack several miles uphill to activate a rare 6M grid with a KX3 and the 100W amp, and I just bought a 100Ah pack (26#) to run my SO2R shack. If I were going to pack with a KX2 or KX3, I'd buy something much smaller, like 6 - 12 Ah (2 - 4#), or even smaller. Your application carrying a K3/P3 around to chase RFI pulls about 1.6A, (1.8A with the SVGA module in the P3). A KX3 plus PX3 pulls about 350 mA at max screen brightness. Bioenne (and other vendors) package their LiFePO4 batteries more than one way for the same Ah capacity, often to retrofit into existing gear. With Bioenne batteries, I chose the PVC pack, which is lighter weight than the rectangular "solid" format. Bioenne and other battery vendors do NOT say that their chargers are RF-quiet, which is why you would use a PowerGate and known clean supply. To charge from solar, buy a Genasun charge regulator, which IS pretty RF-quiet. I've told Bioenne that they need to find quiet chargers. We'll see how they respond. As to voltages -- I would ONLY buy 12V nominal to power ham gear. If you need other voltages for other gear, look at http://www.batteryspace.com which carries a MUCH broader range of batteries. They're also good people, located in the SF Bay area. Bioenne is in Santa Ana, CA. I've chosen to avoid voltage boost products, which are essentially SMPS, and noisy. Yes, you can set them to be active only on TX, but if you're running two radios, the one you aren't TXing on will hear the noise. As to charging -- LiFePO4 batteries will last a lot longer if they are not fast-charg
Re: [Elecraft] Choosing A Battery For Ham Use
My RC hobby charger manages these batteries according to specs. I have not tried but am ready to pull the plug to use them to charge my LIPOs in the field to enjoy more operation time. Any thoughts or experience appreciated. I do RC via boats, cars and sailplanes. Bill K9YEQ -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Brown Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 3:29 PM To: Reflector Elecraft <elecraft@mailman.qth.net> Subject: [Elecraft] Choosing A Battery For Ham Use Hi Clay, Because this is of general interest, I'm replying to the list. First, LiFePO4 batteries are pretty much ideal for ham applications because of their relatively flat discharge curve, and because their Ah vs weight ratio is a good compromise. For example, an LiFePO4 pack will be above 12.5 for about 80% of capacity and 12V for 90% of capacity, while a lead-acid battery will drop below 12V before it reaches 50% of capacity. Second, LiFePO4 batteries provide a LOT more charge-discharge cycles if treated properly. The result is that if you're going to use them for a lot of years, the longer life more than compensates for their higher cost. Third, LiFePO4 batteries are MUCH safer than Li-ion batteries. Disadvantages of LiFePO4 are initial cost and the fact that they need a special charger. However -- Bioenne told me that they can be safely charged using the West Mountain SuperPWR Gate set for AGM batteries and a power supply that is adjusted to about 14.5 volts. The AGM setting of the PwrGate limits the charging voltage to 14.2V, which is what LiFePO4 batteries need. Also, LiFePO4 batteries do NOT like to be discharged below about 95%, so care must be taken not to fully discharge them. Good battery packs will have control circuity that prevents this. Now, as to how much battery to buy. Start by studying current draw of the radio(s) and other equipment that you'll use with the battery, taking TX/RX duty cycle into account. Also look at weight if you're going to carry it. I bought a 20Ah pack (5.5#) to loan to a friend who was going to pack several miles uphill to activate a rare 6M grid with a KX3 and the 100W amp, and I just bought a 100Ah pack (26#) to run my SO2R shack. If I were going to pack with a KX2 or KX3, I'd buy something much smaller, like 6 - 12 Ah (2 - 4#), or even smaller. Your application carrying a K3/P3 around to chase RFI pulls about 1.6A, (1.8A with the SVGA module in the P3). A KX3 plus PX3 pulls about 350 mA at max screen brightness. Bioenne (and other vendors) package their LiFePO4 batteries more than one way for the same Ah capacity, often to retrofit into existing gear. With Bioenne batteries, I chose the PVC pack, which is lighter weight than the rectangular "solid" format. Bioenne and other battery vendors do NOT say that their chargers are RF-quiet, which is why you would use a PowerGate and known clean supply. To charge from solar, buy a Genasun charge regulator, which IS pretty RF-quiet. I've told Bioenne that they need to find quiet chargers. We'll see how they respond. As to voltages -- I would ONLY buy 12V nominal to power ham gear. If you need other voltages for other gear, look at http://www.batteryspace.com which carries a MUCH broader range of batteries. They're also good people, located in the SF Bay area. Bioenne is in Santa Ana, CA. I've chosen to avoid voltage boost products, which are essentially SMPS, and noisy. Yes, you can set them to be active only on TX, but if you're running two radios, the one you aren't TXing on will hear the noise. As to charging -- LiFePO4 batteries will last a lot longer if they are not fast-charged. A good rule of thumb is their 4 hour or 10 hour discharge current. In other words, for a 20Ah battery, avoid more than about 5A charge current. If you're sizing the battery to power your shack and will be float charging it, the charge current can be added to the capacity to figure how much battery you need. In my application, with worst case of SO2R contesting at 100W, I'll be TX on one radio or the other almost all the time, so I'm looking at roughly 12A worst case. If I wasn't doing SO2R, I could get by with a smaller battery. For non-critical applications like video monitors, router, cable modem, etc, I'm using el-cheapo lead acid batteries from my hamfest stash, and floating them from suitably sized linear wall warts. I've found that for most gear, voltage is not all that critical. For example, my Samsung computer monitors are sold with a 14VDC wall wart, but were still running fine when my lead-acid battery had dropped to 10.5 volts. I've looked around a lot, and so far have not found a better practical battery chemistry than LiFePO4. Another important point. For running electronics of all types, we do NOT want automotive batteries, which are primarily designed to provide a big hunk of current to start the engine, but which don't like to be deeply discharged. Instead, we wan
Re: [Elecraft] Choosing A Battery For Ham Use
Jim, this is very helpful info. I'm just in the planning process of taking my station solar and this is information that will help immensely. Thanks. Chuck NN7U - Chuck Teague NN7U -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Fwd-Bioenno-s-July-Promotion-tp7619450p7619466.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] Choosing A Battery For Ham Use
Hi Clay, Because this is of general interest, I'm replying to the list. First, LiFePO4 batteries are pretty much ideal for ham applications because of their relatively flat discharge curve, and because their Ah vs weight ratio is a good compromise. For example, an LiFePO4 pack will be above 12.5 for about 80% of capacity and 12V for 90% of capacity, while a lead-acid battery will drop below 12V before it reaches 50% of capacity. Second, LiFePO4 batteries provide a LOT more charge-discharge cycles if treated properly. The result is that if you're going to use them for a lot of years, the longer life more than compensates for their higher cost. Third, LiFePO4 batteries are MUCH safer than Li-ion batteries. Disadvantages of LiFePO4 are initial cost and the fact that they need a special charger. However -- Bioenne told me that they can be safely charged using the West Mountain SuperPWR Gate set for AGM batteries and a power supply that is adjusted to about 14.5 volts. The AGM setting of the PwrGate limits the charging voltage to 14.2V, which is what LiFePO4 batteries need. Also, LiFePO4 batteries do NOT like to be discharged below about 95%, so care must be taken not to fully discharge them. Good battery packs will have control circuity that prevents this. Now, as to how much battery to buy. Start by studying current draw of the radio(s) and other equipment that you'll use with the battery, taking TX/RX duty cycle into account. Also look at weight if you're going to carry it. I bought a 20Ah pack (5.5#) to loan to a friend who was going to pack several miles uphill to activate a rare 6M grid with a KX3 and the 100W amp, and I just bought a 100Ah pack (26#) to run my SO2R shack. If I were going to pack with a KX2 or KX3, I'd buy something much smaller, like 6 - 12 Ah (2 - 4#), or even smaller. Your application carrying a K3/P3 around to chase RFI pulls about 1.6A, (1.8A with the SVGA module in the P3). A KX3 plus PX3 pulls about 350 mA at max screen brightness. Bioenne (and other vendors) package their LiFePO4 batteries more than one way for the same Ah capacity, often to retrofit into existing gear. With Bioenne batteries, I chose the PVC pack, which is lighter weight than the rectangular "solid" format. Bioenne and other battery vendors do NOT say that their chargers are RF-quiet, which is why you would use a PowerGate and known clean supply. To charge from solar, buy a Genasun charge regulator, which IS pretty RF-quiet. I've told Bioenne that they need to find quiet chargers. We'll see how they respond. As to voltages -- I would ONLY buy 12V nominal to power ham gear. If you need other voltages for other gear, look at http://www.batteryspace.com which carries a MUCH broader range of batteries. They're also good people, located in the SF Bay area. Bioenne is in Santa Ana, CA. I've chosen to avoid voltage boost products, which are essentially SMPS, and noisy. Yes, you can set them to be active only on TX, but if you're running two radios, the one you aren't TXing on will hear the noise. As to charging -- LiFePO4 batteries will last a lot longer if they are not fast-charged. A good rule of thumb is their 4 hour or 10 hour discharge current. In other words, for a 20Ah battery, avoid more than about 5A charge current. If you're sizing the battery to power your shack and will be float charging it, the charge current can be added to the capacity to figure how much battery you need. In my application, with worst case of SO2R contesting at 100W, I'll be TX on one radio or the other almost all the time, so I'm looking at roughly 12A worst case. If I wasn't doing SO2R, I could get by with a smaller battery. For non-critical applications like video monitors, router, cable modem, etc, I'm using el-cheapo lead acid batteries from my hamfest stash, and floating them from suitably sized linear wall warts. I've found that for most gear, voltage is not all that critical. For example, my Samsung computer monitors are sold with a 14VDC wall wart, but were still running fine when my lead-acid battery had dropped to 10.5 volts. I've looked around a lot, and so far have not found a better practical battery chemistry than LiFePO4. Another important point. For running electronics of all types, we do NOT want automotive batteries, which are primarily designed to provide a big hunk of current to start the engine, but which don't like to be deeply discharged. Instead, we want deep discharge types. Pay attention to this when selecting a battery. 73, Jim K9YC On Thu,6/30/2016 12:07 PM, Clay Autery wrote: Jim, Looking to get LFP batts for my shack/house/mobile. Could you recommend sizing guidance? Is it as simple as multiplying the voltage x amps to get watts and then dividing by 12VDC to get a 12VDC current draw, and then spec'ing a batt based on Ah, etc etc... calculate run time to 80% discharge (they claim up to 90%). Or do I need to spec
