Re: [Elecraft] Anti-static Pads

[Richard Fjeld]

G=1/R as I remember it.

Yes, I wanted to reply to Alan's method, but I have been away.  I wanted 
to re-read it to see if he allowed time to determine if a cap was leaky 
first.  It was a clever idea.  I have two Simpson's so I should be able 
to duplicate the test, if I can round up exposed metal pans.

I bought my anti-static mat online.  I'm at a loss concerning specs.  I 
file everything, but after doing so for more than 50 years, things 
aren't found quickly.  I don't remember receiving specs, either.

Static discharge is an on-going concern for me. I humidify in the 
winter, and try to stay around 40%.  I keep a grounded wrist-band around 
a tin breath mint container on the table beside my recliner for watching 
TV.  When I stand up, I touch the tin to discharge myself. Otherwise, I 
zap my video equipment. Humidifying helps, but it's no guarantee.

At my workbench, I have a four outlet metal box that is grounded so that 
I can touch it regularly to bleed off any static build-up.  I can be 
'sure' that it is grounded, but I have to 'trust' that my wrist strap 
and anti-static mat are.   Maybe I'm a 'belt and suspenders' type of guy.

Dick, n0ce



On 9/20/2016 12:41 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
> Simplest way I know: Conductivity = 1 / Resistance. All you need is a 
> slide rule. :-)  But seriously,
>
> Alan's method ... charge a capacitor to a known voltage, discharge it 
> through the mat to a lower voltage measuring how long it takes, and 
> use the RC time constant to calculate the resistance ... is about the 
> simplest and maybe the most ingenious.
>
> 73,
>
> Fred K6DGW
> - Sparks NV DM09dn

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Re: [Elecraft] Anti-static Pads

[Fred Jensen]

Simplest way I know: Conductivity = 1 / Resistance.  All you need is a 
slide rule. :-)  But seriously,


Alan's method ... charge a capacitor to a known voltage, discharge it 
through the mat to a lower voltage measuring how long it takes, and use 
the RC time constant to calculate the resistance ... is about the 
simplest and maybe the most ingenious.


73,

Fred K6DGW
- Sparks NV DM09dn

- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2016
- www.cqp.org

On 9/19/2016 8:32 PM, Richard Fjeld wrote:

I stand corrected.  I didn't realize the resistance was that great.

I need to think of a simple way to determine conductivity rather than
 measuring the resistance.

Thanks for the answers.

Dick, n0ce

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Re: [Elecraft] Anti-static Pads

[Fred Moore]

The person who needs a piece of you mind is the Electrical Inspector who
didn't do his job Fred


On 9/20/16 10:37 AM, Terry Schieler wrote:
> Don wrote,
>
>  your house.  You can use a banana plug in the round pin of an electrical 
> receptacle, but before you trust it, get one of the receptacle testers and 
> make sure that green wire ground is intact - some are not.>
>
> I built a new home in 1996.  After living there a few years I noticed an 
> intermittent issue with an outlet on the first floor.  Upon opening up the 
> outlet box I discovered the green "safety ground" coiled up, disconnected in 
> the back of the box.  I fixed that.  Then I used a receptacle tester to 
> confirm the other outlets.  All the outlets but three on the first floor had 
> the disconnected green wire stuffed into the back of the box.  I spent a 
> weekend making them safe again.  All outlets in the rest of the house were 
> fine.  
> Hearing my experience, most people say "man I hope you gave your builder a 
> piece of your mind".  I was unable to do that as he was in federal prison at 
> the time... for fraud.  Every dog has his day.
>
> Check your receptacles.  
>
> Terry, WØFM
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Don Wilhelm [mailto:donw...@embarqmail.com] 
> Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 3:59 PM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Anti-static Pads
>
> Hi all,
>
> While I can state that Ron's comment about the K2 is typically true, the 
> static tolerance of thru-hole ICs and transistors is lower than it was back 
> in 1998 or even 2006 (OK, I picked those years as a guess).  Many DIP mounted 
> devices are really SMD devices with DIP leads and can be as static sensitive 
> as the devices in the K3 and KX3.
> Despite the "touch grounded metal" instruction in the K2 manual, I do see 
> some repairs come in with failed firmware ICs, and rarely, but not zero, some 
> 'normal' ICs on a new build.
> My best guess is that those parts were damaged due to a static charge.
> Whether the builder did not follow the "touch a metal ground" or not I cannot 
> tell, all I know is that it failed.
>
> When possible, use an anti-static mat and wrist strap when handling ICs and 
> transistors, especially during periods of low humidity.  Do not work on 
> carpet without them and do not wear nylon clothing - and don't shuffle your 
> feet on the floor while working.
> The minimum should be a wrist strap connected to the green-wire ground in 
> your house.  You can use a banana plug in the round pin of an electrical 
> receptacle, but before you trust it, get one of the receptacle testers and 
> make sure that green wire ground is intact - some are not.
>
>
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-- 
Fred Moore
email: f...@fmeco.com
   f...@safes.com
phone:  321-217-8699

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Re: [Elecraft] Anti-static Pads

[Terry Schieler]

Don wrote,



I built a new home in 1996.  After living there a few years I noticed an 
intermittent issue with an outlet on the first floor.  Upon opening up the 
outlet box I discovered the green "safety ground" coiled up, disconnected in 
the back of the box.  I fixed that.  Then I used a receptacle tester to confirm 
the other outlets.  All the outlets but three on the first floor had the 
disconnected green wire stuffed into the back of the box.  I spent a weekend 
making them safe again.  All outlets in the rest of the house were fine.  
Hearing my experience, most people say "man I hope you gave your builder a 
piece of your mind".  I was unable to do that as he was in federal prison at 
the time... for fraud.  Every dog has his day.

Check your receptacles.  

Terry, WØFM



-Original Message-
From: Don Wilhelm [mailto:donw...@embarqmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 3:59 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Anti-static Pads

Hi all,

While I can state that Ron's comment about the K2 is typically true, the static 
tolerance of thru-hole ICs and transistors is lower than it was back in 1998 or 
even 2006 (OK, I picked those years as a guess).  Many DIP mounted devices are 
really SMD devices with DIP leads and can be as static sensitive as the devices 
in the K3 and KX3.
Despite the "touch grounded metal" instruction in the K2 manual, I do see some 
repairs come in with failed firmware ICs, and rarely, but not zero, some 
'normal' ICs on a new build.
My best guess is that those parts were damaged due to a static charge.
Whether the builder did not follow the "touch a metal ground" or not I cannot 
tell, all I know is that it failed.

When possible, use an anti-static mat and wrist strap when handling ICs and 
transistors, especially during periods of low humidity.  Do not work on carpet 
without them and do not wear nylon clothing - and don't shuffle your feet on 
the floor while working.
The minimum should be a wrist strap connected to the green-wire ground in your 
house.  You can use a banana plug in the round pin of an electrical receptacle, 
but before you trust it, get one of the receptacle testers and make sure that 
green wire ground is intact - some are not.


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Re: [Elecraft] Anti-static Pads

[Alan Bloom]

On 09/19/2016 08:32 PM, Richard Fjeld wrote:

I stand corrected.  I didn't realize the resistance was that great.

I need to think of a simple way to determine conductivity rather than
measuring the resistance.


Here are the results of some anti-static mat testing that I did a few 
years ago.  If you scroll down to the bottom, there is a description of 
the test procedure.


http://www.mail-archive.com/elecraft%40mailman.qth.net/msg94407.html

Alan N1AL
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Re: [Elecraft] Anti-static Pads

[Richard Fjeld]

I stand corrected.  I didn't realize the resistance was that great.

I need to think of a simple way to determine conductivity rather than 
measuring the resistance.

Thanks for the answers.

Dick, n0ce



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Re: [Elecraft] Anti-static Pads

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

The test procedure involves both the contact area and measuring a very high
resistance - in the Gigaohm range. That requires very specialized equipment
that few (if any) Hams have on hand. 

Useful "probes" for connecting to the mat run from $150 to almost $400. For
example:

https://www.amazon.com/PRS-801-W-Conductive-Surface-Resistance-Electrode/dp/
B017V3RO2A/ref=pd_day0_328_6?ie=UTF8=1=9VFF4V66Y9VFB0F7Z4E9

I believe you will need two probes, plus a meter that can measure in the
Gigaohm range .

The price of one probe would convince me to simply buy a new mat, Hi! 

73 Ron AC7AC

P.S. Us K2 owners are rather quiet these days. I suspect few are still
monitoring the reflector. I miss the many questions about soldering,
testing, setting up an antenna, etc. But time, and products, moves on..


-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
Richard Fjeld
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 7:34 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Anti-static Pads

At this point; A Question about how to properly test an anti-static mat?

I bought one last winter that appears to be totally non-conductive. I don't
think it is my error.
If others have mats like this, and are trusting them, I can see the
possibility for failures.

Dick, n0ce

P.S. I like reading the comments about the K2's.


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Re: [Elecraft] Anti-static Pads

[Fred Jensen]

10^9+ ohms [1,000 megohms or more] is pretty much "non-conductive" for 
anything we ordinary hams have to measure it.  My Heath MM-1 just 
doesn't register at that. :-)


Whether or not your mat is any good for ESD protection, and whether or 
not you can believe the specs if it has them, depends a lot on where it 
comes from.


73,

Fred K6DGW
- Sparks NV DM09dn

- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2016
- www.cqp.org

On 9/19/2016 7:34 PM, Richard Fjeld wrote:

At this point; A Question about how to properly test an anti-static mat?

I bought one last winter that appears to be totally non-conductive. I
don't think it is my error.
If others have mats like this, and are trusting them, I can see the
possibility for failures.

Dick, n0ce


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Re: [Elecraft] Anti-static Pads

[Jim Rhodes]

Well, the resistance of a good one is probably higher than what a normal
VOM could measure. A merger might measure it, but having never had access
to one I couldn't be sure.

On Sep 19, 2016 8:35 PM, "Richard Fjeld"  wrote:

At this point; A Question about how to properly test an anti-static mat?

I bought one last winter that appears to be totally non-conductive. I
don't think it is my error.
If others have mats like this, and are trusting them, I can see the
possibility for failures.

Dick, n0ce

P.S. I like reading the comments about the K2's.



On 9/19/2016 4:12 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> A point I failed to make in my comments below is that the goal of
> anti-static measures is to keep everything at the same potential (and
> not necessarily to 'ground things').
> For instance, all my tools touch my anti-static mat before I use them,
> and when I remove a device which is shipped in anti-static bags or the
> black foam from its anti-static material, I place the bag or foam on
> my anti-static mat first, then remove the device and place its leads
> on the mat.  That assures that anything originating beyond the bounds
> of my mat will be equalized to whatever potential exists on the mat -
> there should be no static potential difference between items that
> reside on my mat.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR

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Re: [Elecraft] Anti-static Pads

[Richard Fjeld]

At this point; A Question about how to properly test an anti-static mat?

I bought one last winter that appears to be totally non-conductive. I 
don't think it is my error.
If others have mats like this, and are trusting them, I can see the 
possibility for failures.

Dick, n0ce

P.S. I like reading the comments about the K2's.



On 9/19/2016 4:12 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> A point I failed to make in my comments below is that the goal of 
> anti-static measures is to keep everything at the same potential (and 
> not necessarily to 'ground things').
> For instance, all my tools touch my anti-static mat before I use them, 
> and when I remove a device which is shipped in anti-static bags or the 
> black foam from its anti-static material, I place the bag or foam on 
> my anti-static mat first, then remove the device and place its leads 
> on the mat.  That assures that anything originating beyond the bounds 
> of my mat will be equalized to whatever potential exists on the mat - 
> there should be no static potential difference between items that 
> reside on my mat.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR

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Re: [Elecraft] Anti-static Pads

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

As I observed to Dick, n0ce:

It's been a long, long road from the early low-impedance bipolar transistors
to the modern ultra low power FETs.

There was a time we worried about getting hurt: knocked on our keister by
accidentally touching high voltage or burning our fingers on a hot vacuum
tube. Now the tables are turned and we have to worry more about the
equipment. 

73, Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Don
Wilhelm
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 1:59 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Anti-static Pads

Hi all,

While I can state that Ron's comment about the K2 is typically true, the
static tolerance of thru-hole ICs and transistors is lower than it was back
in 1998 or even 2006 (OK, I picked those years as a guess).  Many DIP
mounted devices are really SMD devices with DIP leads and can be as static
sensitive as the devices in the K3 and KX3.
Despite the "touch grounded metal" instruction in the K2 manual, I do see
some repairs come in with failed firmware ICs, and rarely, but not zero,
some 'normal' ICs on a new build.
My best guess is that those parts were damaged due to a static charge.
Whether the builder did not follow the "touch a metal ground" or not I
cannot tell, all I know is that it failed.

When possible, use an anti-static mat and wrist strap when handling ICs and
transistors, especially during periods of low humidity.  Do not work on
carpet without them and do not wear nylon clothing - and don't shuffle your
feet on the floor while working.
The minimum should be a wrist strap connected to the green-wire ground in
your house.  You can use a banana plug in the round pin of an electrical
receptacle, but before you trust it, get one of the receptacle testers and
make sure that green wire ground is intact - some are not.

Whether your anti-static precautions are 'overkill' for the task to be
accomplished will never be known.  Take whatever precautions make you feel
comfortable with the risk factor involved.  Doing nothing or ignoring the
static damage probability is not acceptable unless you are willing to accept
the risk.

I suggest that you do not connect the wrist strap to a separate ground rod
that you have for your hamshack unless that ground rod is also bonded to the
utility entrance ground rod.
It is off this topic, but if your ground rods are not connected to the
utility entrance ground, it is a safety hazard should something in the house
*or* your shack develop a fault.  In addition, it is a violation of the NEC
(those codes are written for your safety).

73,
Don W3FPR


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Re: [Elecraft] Anti-static Pads

[Don Wilhelm]

Hi all,

While I can state that Ron's comment about the K2 is typically true, the 
static tolerance of thru-hole ICs and transistors is lower than it was 
back in 1998 or even 2006 (OK, I picked those years as a guess).  Many 
DIP mounted devices are really SMD devices with DIP leads and can be as 
static sensitive as the devices in the K3 and KX3.
Despite the "touch grounded metal" instruction in the K2 manual, I do 
see some repairs come in with failed firmware ICs, and rarely, but not 
zero, some 'normal' ICs on a new build.

My best guess is that those parts were damaged due to a static charge.
Whether the builder did not follow the "touch a metal ground" or not I 
cannot tell, all I know is that it failed.


When possible, use an anti-static mat and wrist strap when handling ICs 
and transistors, especially during periods of low humidity.  Do not work 
on carpet without them and do not wear nylon clothing - and don't 
shuffle your feet on the floor while working.
The minimum should be a wrist strap connected to the green-wire ground 
in your house.  You can use a banana plug in the round pin of an 
electrical receptacle, but before you trust it, get one of the 
receptacle testers and make sure that green wire ground is intact - some 
are not.


Whether your anti-static precautions are 'overkill' for the task to be 
accomplished will never be known.  Take whatever precautions make you 
feel comfortable with the risk factor involved.  Doing nothing or 
ignoring the static damage probability is not acceptable unless you are 
willing to accept the risk.


I suggest that you do not connect the wrist strap to a separate ground 
rod that you have for your hamshack unless that ground rod is also 
bonded to the utility entrance ground rod.
It is off this topic, but if your ground rods are not connected to the 
utility entrance ground, it is a safety hazard should something in the 
house *or* your shack develop a fault.  In addition, it is a violation 
of the NEC (those codes are written for your safety).


73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/19/2016 4:12 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

Note that the K2 manual does not make much of an issue about an anti-static mat. It's on 
the bottom of the anti-static priority list Wayne compiled. In the interest of full 
disclosure, I built my K2 while most of my stuff was in storage, working solely on a 
small wooden drawing board using my ESD-Safe iron. I simply did the recommended 
"touch a ground" before each time I reached for a transistor, i.c. or pc board 
and experienced no problems whatsoever. Sixteen years later the K2 is still going strong.

73, Ron AC7AC





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Re: [Elecraft] Anti-static Pads

[Don Wilhelm]

Hi all,

A point I failed to make in my comments below is that the goal of 
anti-static measures is to keep everything at the same potential (and 
not necessarily to 'ground things').
For instance, all my tools touch my anti-static mat before I use them, 
and when I remove a device which is shipped in anti-static bags or the 
black foam from its anti-static material, I place the bag or foam on my 
anti-static mat first, then remove the device and place its leads on the 
mat.  That assures that anything originating beyond the bounds of my mat 
will be equalized to whatever potential exists on the mat - there should 
be no static potential difference between items that reside on my mat.


73,
Don W3FPR


Hi all,

While I can state that Ron's comment about the K2 is typically true, the 
static tolerance of thru-hole ICs and transistors is lower than it was 
back in 1998 or even 2006 (OK, I picked those years as a guess).  Many 
current DIP mounted devices are really SMD devices with DIP leads and 
can be as static sensitive as the devices in the K3 and KX3.
Despite the "touch grounded metal" instruction in the K2 manual, I do 
see some repairs come in with failed firmware ICs, and rarely, but not 
zero, some 'normal' ICs on a new build.

My best guess is that those parts were damaged due to a static charge.
Whether the builder did not follow the "touch a metal ground" or not I 
cannot tell, all I know is that it failed.


When possible, use an anti-static mat and wrist strap when handling ICs 
and transistors, especially during periods of low humidity.  Do not work 
on carpet without them and do not wear nylon clothing - and don't 
shuffle your feet on the floor while working.
The minimum should be a wrist strap connected to the green-wire ground 
in your house.  You can use a banana plug in the round pin of an 
electrical receptacle, but before you trust it, get one of the 
receptacle testers and make sure that green wire ground is intact - some 
are not.


Whether your anti-static precautions are 'overkill' for the task to be 
accomplished will never be known.  Take whatever precautions make you 
feel comfortable with the risk factor involved.  Doing nothing or 
ignoring the static damage probability is not acceptable unless you are 
willing to accept the risk.


I suggest that you do not connect the wrist strap to a separate ground 
rod that you have for your hamshack unless that ground rod is also 
bonded to the utility entrance ground rod.
It is off this topic, but if your ground rods are not connected to the 
utility entrance ground, it is a safety hazard should something in the 
house *or* your shack develop a fault.  In addition, it is a violation 
of the NEC (those codes are written for your safety).


73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/19/2016 4:12 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

Note that the K2 manual does not make much of an issue about an anti-static mat. It's on 
the bottom of the anti-static priority list Wayne compiled. In the interest of full 
disclosure, I built my K2 while most of my stuff was in storage, working solely on a 
small wooden drawing board using my ESD-Safe iron. I simply did the recommended 
"touch a ground" before each time I reached for a transistor, i.c. or pc board 
and experienced no problems whatsoever. Sixteen years later the K2 is still going strong.

73, Ron AC7AC





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Re: [Elecraft] Anti-static Pads

[Fred Jensen]

I built K2 S/N 4398 the same as Ron, on a desktop with a Formica top in 
a room with a carpet.  I kept all semiconductor parts in their 
anti-static bags and/or conductive foam, and touched ground before 
picking them up.  My soldering station is static-safe.  I tried not to 
shuffle my feet on the carpet and wore sneakers with rubber soles.  I 
did ban the vacuum from the room until I was done and the K2 was 
working. :-)


Don did an alignment for me when he replaced an intermittent component, 
other than that, it's been completely fine.


73,

Fred K6DGW
Sparks NV USA
Washoe County DM09dn

On 9/19/2016 1:12 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:


 Note that the K2 manual does not make much of an issue about an
anti-static mat. It's on the bottom of the anti-static priority list
Wayne compiled. In the interest of full disclosure, I built my K2
while most of my stuff was in storage, working solely on a small
wooden drawing board using my ESD-Safe iron. I simply did the
recommended "touch a ground" before each time I reached for a
transistor, i.c. or pc board and experienced no problems whatsoever.
Sixteen years later the K2 is still going strong.

73, Ron AC7AC

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Re: [Elecraft] Anti-static Pads

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

Hello Ed:

I don't have any experience with mat cleaners. Perhaps some of the other list 
members do.

If your old mat did not come with a resistance value specified, I suggest 
replacing it.  The Elecraft engineer testing a variety of mats found that the 
resistance of a mat without a spec was always far too high to be of practical 
value. 

I checked to see if the products suggested are still available. These all have 
resistances in the Gigaohm (1X10^9 ohm) range. 

The U-Line mat can be purchased here:

https://www.uline.com/BL_7403/Anti-Static-Table-Mats

The Desco 66164 is available here:

http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/desco/floor-worksurface-mats/worksurface-mats/vinyl/66164.htm

The 3M mats seem to have been replaced by this one:

http://www.isconline.com/product/8214/3M-Blue-2%27x4%27-Table-Mat.html?cid=14

Note that the K2 manual does not make much of an issue about an anti-static 
mat. It's on the bottom of the anti-static priority list Wayne compiled. In the 
interest of full disclosure, I built my K2 while most of my stuff was in 
storage, working solely on a small wooden drawing board using my ESD-Safe iron. 
I simply did the recommended "touch a ground" before each time I reached for a 
transistor, i.c. or pc board and experienced no problems whatsoever. Sixteen 
years later the K2 is still going strong.

73, Ron AC7AC



-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Dauer, 
Edward
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 12:10 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] Anti-static Pads

Ron –

Your post (below) came at the right moment.  I am about to begin building 
another K2 and wondered whether my anti-static pad, now more than five years 
and ten Elecraft kits old, needs some sort of cleaning to maintain its 
properties; and, if so, what to clean it with – or maybe to replace it.

I have looked and found no brand name on it anywhere, though maybe there was 
one that disappeared when I cut the mat to fit my workspace.  I believe it was 
one of those recommended by Elecraft, but I have no record of it.

Is there a generic cleaner, or would it be safer to begin with a new one?

Forgive my asking this on the reflector rather than by private e-mail; but I 
suspect there may be some other old mats like me out there . . . 

Thanks,

Ted, KN1CBR


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