Re: [Elecraft] K2 RF Output

2021-08-12 Thread jerry
So - I figured - if something on the KPA100 is drawing excess current, 
and not

really doing anything with it, it must be making heat, right?

   I powered up the radio through the barrel connector, left the KPA100 
connected,
set it to "tune" at minimum power and just left it for a while.  Then 
felt around.

Then poked around with an infrared thermometer.

   Zilch.  Nothing anywhere is getting hot to trot.  Nor can I find any 
hot spots

on the heat sink.

 - Jerry KF6VB


On 2021-08-12 10:22, jerry wrote:

On 2021-08-08 09:49, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Jerry,

Replace diodes D16 and D17 in the KPA100 wattmeter, and things should
settle down.


*** The diodes came in from Mouser yesterday, and I replaced them.  
Things
are still not right.  I did get a good adjustment on C1, and it now 
reads 1 to 1

on all bands.

   HOWEVER, it still will not give full power. It fails with "HiCUR".

  If the KPA100 is installed but not powered up ( power from the
barrel connector ),
it gets to about 8W then fails "HiCUR".

  If the KPA100 is installed AND powered up AND enabled via the menu:
   on 40M, it gets to a bit over 80W, then says "HiCUR".
   on 20M it gets to about 65W, then "HiCUR"

  If I uninstall the KP100 completely, the radio gives full power - 
15.3W on

20M, 16.7W on 40M.

  Very mystifying.  I made up a cord to connect the barrel connector
to my lab supply.
Interesting results:  with the KPA100 connected but power through the
barrel, the radio
simply does draw enough current to shut it down with "HiCUR" at 8W.
It shuts down at
EXACTLY 3.5A measured by the power supply.

  With the KPA100 entirely disconnected, the radio makes 16W on 40M at 
3.15A.


  So my conclusion is that something in the KPA100 is drawing excess
current, in transmit mode, even though the KPA100 is mostly not
operating.

   In "tune" with the power all the way down, and the KPA100
connected, the radio draws
750mA through the barrel connector.

   In "tune" with the power all the way down, and the KPA100
DISCONNECTED, the radio
draws 440mA through the barrel connector.

 - Jerry KF6VB












If you attempted to adjust KPA100 C1 while this condition was present,
balance the wattmeter again, it will change with good diodes
installed.
The diodes are 1N5711 type.

That wattmeter is still used as long as the KPA100 is installed on the
base K2 - reducing the power to less than 12 watts does not take it
out of line.

CAL CUR should be set at 3.5 amperes with the KPA100 installed. That
(and the current display) is the current drawn by only the base K2,
and not to the KPA100.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/8/2021 12:24 PM, jerry wrote:

All,

  My new QRO K2 behaves a little strangely...

On Tune - it makes 108W on 40M, very nice.

But on 20M it behaves strangely.  It won't make more than 20W or so, 
complains about high SWR. Even though my Heathkit HM-102 
SWR/Wattmeter says the SWR is zilch.


So I moved it to a dummy load.  As I turn the power up, it makes up 
to about 80W, and then says "Hi CURR".  And it claims that the dummy 
load ( an 800W "Florida RF" resistor bolted to a large heatsink ) is 
1.6 to 1, which is totally bogus.


OK, there's a null trimmer for the SWR bridge.  I got it down to 
1-to-1 SWR on 20M.  It degrades on higher bands though - up to 1.5 to 
1 on 10M.


Now, 20M gives me a max of 45W - above that it complains "HI CUR".  
It's doing that on all bands.  With the PA off via menu, I get a 
maximum of about 8.5W before getting the "HI CUR" message. I tried 
setting the current up a little bit on the CAL CUR menu, but no real 
difference.


  With a clamp-on DC ammeter ( which I don't trust THAT much ) I see 
340mA on receive,
and just about 3.6A when the display goes "HI CUR".  This is with the 
PA turned off.  The
display shows 7W just before this happens.  Hmm, 13.8V times 3.5A 
means 48.3W DC input.  Seems a little excessive.

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Re: [Elecraft] K2 RF Output

2021-08-12 Thread Don Wilhelm

Jerry,

Are you measuring the power output with an external wattmeter?  Or are 
you depending on the power setting in the base K2.  Use an external 
wattmeter while troubleshooting this problem and a dummy load (not an 
antenna) connected to the wattmeter.


The K2 power will fold back when the CAL CUR point is reached.  I still 
say it is a wattmeter problem because that is the normal problem.


Leave the KPA100 connected, and place it 'on its back' on a box or book 
about 1/2 the height of the K2.  Remove the shield and get out your DMM.


When you have done that, send me an email off-reflector (direct email 
and take {Elecraft}  out of the subject line.
The troubleshooting details are not likely of interest to the rest of 
the list.  You can summarize the results to the list when it is resolved.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/12/2021 1:22 PM, jerry wrote:

On 2021-08-08 09:49, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Jerry,

Replace diodes D16 and D17 in the KPA100 wattmeter, and things should
settle down.


*** The diodes came in from Mouser yesterday, and I replaced them.  
Things
are still not right.  I did get a good adjustment on C1, and it now 
reads 1 to 1

on all bands.

   HOWEVER, it still will not give full power. It fails with "HiCUR".

  If the KPA100 is installed but not powered up ( power from the 
barrel connector ),

it gets to about 8W then fails "HiCUR".

  If the KPA100 is installed AND powered up AND enabled via the menu:
   on 40M, it gets to a bit over 80W, then says "HiCUR".
   on 20M it gets to about 65W, then "HiCUR"

  If I uninstall the KP100 completely, the radio gives full power - 
15.3W on

20M, 16.7W on 40M.

  Very mystifying.  I made up a cord to connect the barrel connector 
to my lab supply.
Interesting results:  with the KPA100 connected but power through the 
barrel, the radio
simply does draw enough current to shut it down with "HiCUR" at 8W.  
It shuts down at

EXACTLY 3.5A measured by the power supply.

  With the KPA100 entirely disconnected, the radio makes 16W on 40M at 
3.15A.


  So my conclusion is that something in the KPA100 is drawing excess 
current, in transmit mode, even though the KPA100 is mostly not 
operating.


   In "tune" with the power all the way down, and the KPA100 
connected, the radio draws

750mA through the barrel connector.

   In "tune" with the power all the way down, and the KPA100 
DISCONNECTED, the radio

draws 440mA through the barrel connector.

 - Jerry KF6VB













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Re: [Elecraft] K2 RF Output

2021-08-12 Thread jerry

On 2021-08-08 09:49, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Jerry,

Replace diodes D16 and D17 in the KPA100 wattmeter, and things should
settle down.


*** The diodes came in from Mouser yesterday, and I replaced them.  
Things
are still not right.  I did get a good adjustment on C1, and it now 
reads 1 to 1

on all bands.

   HOWEVER, it still will not give full power. It fails with "HiCUR".

  If the KPA100 is installed but not powered up ( power from the barrel 
connector ),

it gets to about 8W then fails "HiCUR".

  If the KPA100 is installed AND powered up AND enabled via the menu:
   on 40M, it gets to a bit over 80W, then says "HiCUR".
   on 20M it gets to about 65W, then "HiCUR"

  If I uninstall the KP100 completely, the radio gives full power - 
15.3W on

20M, 16.7W on 40M.

  Very mystifying.  I made up a cord to connect the barrel connector to 
my lab supply.
Interesting results:  with the KPA100 connected but power through the 
barrel, the radio
simply does draw enough current to shut it down with "HiCUR" at 8W.  It 
shuts down at

EXACTLY 3.5A measured by the power supply.

  With the KPA100 entirely disconnected, the radio makes 16W on 40M at 
3.15A.


  So my conclusion is that something in the KPA100 is drawing excess 
current, in transmit mode, even though the KPA100 is mostly not 
operating.


   In "tune" with the power all the way down, and the KPA100 connected, 
the radio draws

750mA through the barrel connector.

   In "tune" with the power all the way down, and the KPA100 
DISCONNECTED, the radio

draws 440mA through the barrel connector.

 - Jerry KF6VB












If you attempted to adjust KPA100 C1 while this condition was present,
balance the wattmeter again, it will change with good diodes
installed.
The diodes are 1N5711 type.

That wattmeter is still used as long as the KPA100 is installed on the
base K2 - reducing the power to less than 12 watts does not take it
out of line.

CAL CUR should be set at 3.5 amperes with the KPA100 installed. That
(and the current display) is the current drawn by only the base K2,
and not to the KPA100.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/8/2021 12:24 PM, jerry wrote:

All,

  My new QRO K2 behaves a little strangely...

On Tune - it makes 108W on 40M, very nice.

But on 20M it behaves strangely.  It won't make more than 20W or so, 
complains about high SWR. Even though my Heathkit HM-102 SWR/Wattmeter 
says the SWR is zilch.


So I moved it to a dummy load.  As I turn the power up, it makes up to 
about 80W, and then says "Hi CURR".  And it claims that the dummy load 
( an 800W "Florida RF" resistor bolted to a large heatsink ) is 1.6 to 
1, which is totally bogus.


OK, there's a null trimmer for the SWR bridge.  I got it down to 
1-to-1 SWR on 20M.  It degrades on higher bands though - up to 1.5 to 
1 on 10M.


Now, 20M gives me a max of 45W - above that it complains "HI CUR".  
It's doing that on all bands.  With the PA off via menu, I get a 
maximum of about 8.5W before getting the "HI CUR" message. I tried 
setting the current up a little bit on the CAL CUR menu, but no real 
difference.


  With a clamp-on DC ammeter ( which I don't trust THAT much ) I see 
340mA on receive,
and just about 3.6A when the display goes "HI CUR".  This is with the 
PA turned off.  The
display shows 7W just before this happens.  Hmm, 13.8V times 3.5A 
means 48.3W DC input.  Seems a little excessive.

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Re: [Elecraft] K2 RF Output

2021-08-08 Thread Frank Krozel
Oh, 
Don’s the expert, listen to him

-73-  FrankKG9H
kg9hfr...@gmail.com




> On Aug 8, 2021, at 1:07 PM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
> 
> That won't work - the KPA100 must be physically removed to keep the base K2 
> from using the KPA100 wattmeter.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> 
> On 8/8/2021 1:54 PM, Frank Krozel wrote:
>> Just power the radio, not the PA
>> -73-  FrankKG9H
>> kg9hfr...@gmail.com 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Aug 8, 2021, at 12:16 PM, jerry mailto:je...@tr2.com>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> All,
>>> 
>>>   Can I just remove the KPA100 and test the K2 "bare" for current draw?
>>> 
>>> - Jerry KF6VB
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 2021-08-08 09:49, Don Wilhelm wrote:
 Jerry,
 Replace diodes D16 and D17 in the KPA100 wattmeter, and things should
 settle down.
 If you attempted to adjust KPA100 C1 while this condition was present,
 balance the wattmeter again, it will change with good diodes
 installed.
 The diodes are 1N5711 type.
 That wattmeter is still used as long as the KPA100 is installed on the
 base K2 - reducing the power to less than 12 watts does not take it
 out of line.
 CAL CUR should be set at 3.5 amperes with the KPA100 installed. That
 (and the current display) is the current drawn by only the base K2,
 and not to the KPA100.
 73,
 Don W3FPR
 On 8/8/2021 12:24 PM, jerry wrote:
> All,
>   My new QRO K2 behaves a little strangely...
> On Tune - it makes 108W on 40M, very nice.
> But on 20M it behaves strangely.  It won't make more than 20W or so, 
> complains about high SWR. Even though my Heathkit HM-102 SWR/Wattmeter 
> says the SWR is zilch.
> So I moved it to a dummy load.  As I turn the power up, it makes up to 
> about 80W, and then says "Hi CURR".  And it claims that the dummy load ( 
> an 800W "Florida RF" resistor bolted to a large heatsink ) is 1.6 to 1, 
> which is totally bogus.
> OK, there's a null trimmer for the SWR bridge.  I got it down to 1-to-1 
> SWR on 20M.  It degrades on higher bands though - up to 1.5 to 1 on 10M.
> Now, 20M gives me a max of 45W - above that it complains "HI CUR".  It's 
> doing that on all bands. With the PA off via menu, I get a maximum of 
> about 8.5W before getting the "HI CUR" message. I tried setting the 
> current up a little bit on the CAL CUR menu, but no real difference.
>   With a clamp-on DC ammeter ( which I don't trust THAT much ) I see 
> 340mA on receive,
> and just about 3.6A when the display goes "HI CUR". This is with the PA 
> turned off.  The
> display shows 7W just before this happens.  Hmm, 13.8V times 3.5A means 
> 48.3W DC input.  Seems a little excessive.
>>> __
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft 
>>> 
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm 
>>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
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>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html 
>>> 
>>> Message delivered to kg9hfr...@gmail.com 
>> 
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] K2 RF Output

2021-08-08 Thread Don Wilhelm
That won't work - the KPA100 must be physically removed to keep the base 
K2 from using the KPA100 wattmeter.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/8/2021 1:54 PM, Frank Krozel wrote:

Just power the radio, not the PA
-73-  Frank    KG9H
kg9hfr...@gmail.com 




On Aug 8, 2021, at 12:16 PM, jerry > wrote:


All,

  Can I just remove the KPA100 and test the K2 "bare" for current draw?

- Jerry KF6VB


On 2021-08-08 09:49, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Jerry,
Replace diodes D16 and D17 in the KPA100 wattmeter, and things should
settle down.
If you attempted to adjust KPA100 C1 while this condition was present,
balance the wattmeter again, it will change with good diodes
installed.
The diodes are 1N5711 type.
That wattmeter is still used as long as the KPA100 is installed on the
base K2 - reducing the power to less than 12 watts does not take it
out of line.
CAL CUR should be set at 3.5 amperes with the KPA100 installed. That
(and the current display) is the current drawn by only the base K2,
and not to the KPA100.
73,
Don W3FPR
On 8/8/2021 12:24 PM, jerry wrote:

All,
  My new QRO K2 behaves a little strangely...
On Tune - it makes 108W on 40M, very nice.
But on 20M it behaves strangely.  It won't make more than 20W or 
so, complains about high SWR. Even though my Heathkit HM-102 
SWR/Wattmeter says the SWR is zilch.
So I moved it to a dummy load.  As I turn the power up, it makes up 
to about 80W, and then says "Hi CURR".  And it claims that the 
dummy load ( an 800W "Florida RF" resistor bolted to a large 
heatsink ) is 1.6 to 1, which is totally bogus.
OK, there's a null trimmer for the SWR bridge.  I got it down to 
1-to-1 SWR on 20M.  It degrades on higher bands though - up to 1.5 
to 1 on 10M.
Now, 20M gives me a max of 45W - above that it complains "HI CUR".  
It's doing that on all bands. With the PA off via menu, I get a 
maximum of about 8.5W before getting the "HI CUR" message. I tried 
setting the current up a little bit on the CAL CUR menu, but no 
real difference.
  With a clamp-on DC ammeter ( which I don't trust THAT much ) I 
see 340mA on receive,
and just about 3.6A when the display goes "HI CUR". This is with 
the PA turned off.  The
display shows 7W just before this happens.  Hmm, 13.8V times 3.5A 
means 48.3W DC input.  Seems a little excessive.

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Re: [Elecraft] K2 RF Output

2021-08-08 Thread Frank Krozel
Just power the radio, not the PA
-73-  FrankKG9H
kg9hfr...@gmail.com




> On Aug 8, 2021, at 12:16 PM, jerry  wrote:
> 
> All,
> 
>   Can I just remove the KPA100 and test the K2 "bare" for current draw?
> 
> - Jerry KF6VB
> 
> 
> On 2021-08-08 09:49, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>> Jerry,
>> Replace diodes D16 and D17 in the KPA100 wattmeter, and things should
>> settle down.
>> If you attempted to adjust KPA100 C1 while this condition was present,
>> balance the wattmeter again, it will change with good diodes
>> installed.
>> The diodes are 1N5711 type.
>> That wattmeter is still used as long as the KPA100 is installed on the
>> base K2 - reducing the power to less than 12 watts does not take it
>> out of line.
>> CAL CUR should be set at 3.5 amperes with the KPA100 installed. That
>> (and the current display) is the current drawn by only the base K2,
>> and not to the KPA100.
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>> On 8/8/2021 12:24 PM, jerry wrote:
>>> All,
>>>   My new QRO K2 behaves a little strangely...
>>> On Tune - it makes 108W on 40M, very nice.
>>> But on 20M it behaves strangely.  It won't make more than 20W or so, 
>>> complains about high SWR. Even though my Heathkit HM-102 SWR/Wattmeter says 
>>> the SWR is zilch.
>>> So I moved it to a dummy load.  As I turn the power up, it makes up to 
>>> about 80W, and then says "Hi CURR".  And it claims that the dummy load ( an 
>>> 800W "Florida RF" resistor bolted to a large heatsink ) is 1.6 to 1, which 
>>> is totally bogus.
>>> OK, there's a null trimmer for the SWR bridge.  I got it down to 1-to-1 SWR 
>>> on 20M.  It degrades on higher bands though - up to 1.5 to 1 on 10M.
>>> Now, 20M gives me a max of 45W - above that it complains "HI CUR".  It's 
>>> doing that on all bands.  With the PA off via menu, I get a maximum of 
>>> about 8.5W before getting the "HI CUR" message. I tried setting the current 
>>> up a little bit on the CAL CUR menu, but no real difference.
>>>   With a clamp-on DC ammeter ( which I don't trust THAT much ) I see 340mA 
>>> on receive,
>>> and just about 3.6A when the display goes "HI CUR".  This is with the PA 
>>> turned off.  The
>>> display shows 7W just before this happens.  Hmm, 13.8V times 3.5A means 
>>> 48.3W DC input.  Seems a little excessive.
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Re: [Elecraft] K2 RF Output

2021-08-08 Thread jerry

All,

   Can I just remove the KPA100 and test the K2 "bare" for current draw?

 - Jerry KF6VB


On 2021-08-08 09:49, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Jerry,

Replace diodes D16 and D17 in the KPA100 wattmeter, and things should
settle down.
If you attempted to adjust KPA100 C1 while this condition was present,
balance the wattmeter again, it will change with good diodes
installed.
The diodes are 1N5711 type.

That wattmeter is still used as long as the KPA100 is installed on the
base K2 - reducing the power to less than 12 watts does not take it
out of line.

CAL CUR should be set at 3.5 amperes with the KPA100 installed. That
(and the current display) is the current drawn by only the base K2,
and not to the KPA100.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/8/2021 12:24 PM, jerry wrote:

All,

  My new QRO K2 behaves a little strangely...

On Tune - it makes 108W on 40M, very nice.

But on 20M it behaves strangely.  It won't make more than 20W or so, 
complains about high SWR. Even though my Heathkit HM-102 SWR/Wattmeter 
says the SWR is zilch.


So I moved it to a dummy load.  As I turn the power up, it makes up to 
about 80W, and then says "Hi CURR".  And it claims that the dummy load 
( an 800W "Florida RF" resistor bolted to a large heatsink ) is 1.6 to 
1, which is totally bogus.


OK, there's a null trimmer for the SWR bridge.  I got it down to 
1-to-1 SWR on 20M.  It degrades on higher bands though - up to 1.5 to 
1 on 10M.


Now, 20M gives me a max of 45W - above that it complains "HI CUR".  
It's doing that on all bands.  With the PA off via menu, I get a 
maximum of about 8.5W before getting the "HI CUR" message. I tried 
setting the current up a little bit on the CAL CUR menu, but no real 
difference.


  With a clamp-on DC ammeter ( which I don't trust THAT much ) I see 
340mA on receive,
and just about 3.6A when the display goes "HI CUR".  This is with the 
PA turned off.  The
display shows 7W just before this happens.  Hmm, 13.8V times 3.5A 
means 48.3W DC input.  Seems a little excessive.

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Re: [Elecraft] K2 RF Output

2021-08-08 Thread Don Wilhelm

Jerry,

Replace diodes D16 and D17 in the KPA100 wattmeter, and things should 
settle down.
If you attempted to adjust KPA100 C1 while this condition was present, 
balance the wattmeter again, it will change with good diodes installed.

The diodes are 1N5711 type.

That wattmeter is still used as long as the KPA100 is installed on the 
base K2 - reducing the power to less than 12 watts does not take it out 
of line.


CAL CUR should be set at 3.5 amperes with the KPA100 installed. That 
(and the current display) is the current drawn by only the base K2, and 
not to the KPA100.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/8/2021 12:24 PM, jerry wrote:

All,

  My new QRO K2 behaves a little strangely...

On Tune - it makes 108W on 40M, very nice.

But on 20M it behaves strangely.  It won't make more than 20W or so, 
complains about high SWR. Even though my Heathkit HM-102 SWR/Wattmeter 
says the SWR is zilch.


So I moved it to a dummy load.  As I turn the power up, it makes up to 
about 80W, and then says "Hi CURR".  And it claims that the dummy load 
( an 800W "Florida RF" resistor bolted to a large heatsink ) is 1.6 to 
1, which is totally bogus.


OK, there's a null trimmer for the SWR bridge.  I got it down to 
1-to-1 SWR on 20M.  It degrades on higher bands though - up to 1.5 to 
1 on 10M.


Now, 20M gives me a max of 45W - above that it complains "HI CUR".  
It's doing that on all bands.  With the PA off via menu, I get a 
maximum of about 8.5W before getting the "HI CUR" message. I tried 
setting the current up a little bit on the CAL CUR menu, but no real 
difference.


  With a clamp-on DC ammeter ( which I don't trust THAT much ) I see 
340mA on receive,
and just about 3.6A when the display goes "HI CUR".  This is with the 
PA turned off.  The
display shows 7W just before this happens.  Hmm, 13.8V times 3.5A 
means 48.3W DC input.  Seems a little excessive.


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