Re: [Elecraft] K3 doesn't work in AFSK-A mode but DATA-A does work. What's broken?

2020-03-21 Thread Jim Brown 

On 3/21/2020 12:50 PM, n9ok wrote:

  I don't know what about the installation was incorrect. It
could well have been something intermittent in the K3. Or some silly
misconfiguration on my part. I hope it was an MMTTY configuration issue but
only time will tell.


There are "gotchas" buried in MMTTY .ini files that can bite us if we 
use low- or mid-frequency audio tones. They assume that you use the 
default high tones, so if you do, there's no problem. But if you use low 
tones, as I do because they make it easier for my ear-brain to tune in 
RTTY signals, the two .ini files in the MMTTY directory must be edited 
to define the low or mid tones you've chosen. MMTTY.ini defines general 
setup, while USERPARA.ini defines all of the optional decoding 
algorithms, like "Fluttered Signals," "Multi-path," and so on.  If 
you're using low or mid tones and these files are not edited, every time 
you change the decoding algorithm you'll be reset to high tones. (I 
learned this the hard way.) :)


This is the line that must be changed to whichever tone you have chosen. 
It occurs multiple times in both MMTTY.ini and USERPARA.ini 
DefMarkFreq=2.125000e+03


Scientific notation is used to define the frequency -- 2.125 x 10e3 Hz 
-- 10e3 means x1,000, so 2,125 Hz.


These files must be edited with a plain text editor (Notepad on a 
Windoze machine) and saved in the same directory and with the same 
filename and extension.


FWIW, I'm using 2Tone as my primary RTTY software, because it can select 
between left and right channels for both RX and TX. MMTTY can select 
between left and right for RX, but not for TX (that is, it sends to both 
L and R). I do this because I do SO2R contesting, running both radios 
from the same computer. I use MMTTY for second decode windows on both 
radios. 2Tone, by a ham in the UK, has many advantages, including 
improved decoding and carefully shaped keying for minimum distortion. 
GRITTY is by VE3NEA, who wrote Skimmers for both CW and RTTY. I haven't 
tried it yet.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 doesn't work in AFSK-A mode but DATA-A does work. What's broken?

2020-03-21 Thread n9ok 
Starting with a clean MMTTY installation and carefully going thru the minimal
required changes to that installation to make it work, my K3 now works as
expected. I am able to successfully transmit using AFSK.

Many thanks to all of you for your suggestions, screen shots, helpful
advice, etc. You guys are great!  Special thanks to NG7M and N7US who both
provided ample assistance. Apparently 7th district guys are particularly
helpful!

Frustratingly, I don't know what about the installation was incorrect. It
could well have been something intermittent in the K3. Or some silly
misconfiguration on my part. I hope it was an MMTTY configuration issue but
only time will tell.

I will try sticking with AFSK for now, but possibly switch to FSK in the
future in order to avoid the inherent difficulties with obtaining a clean TX
signal with AFSK.

Joe N9OK



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 doesn't work in AFSK-A mode but DATA-A does work. What's broken?

2020-03-21 Thread Jim Rhodes 
OK, I have to admit that I just went back and tried it again and it does
work as it should. This morning I could make it stop working just by
switching the mode from DATA A to AFSK A. This afternoon it seems to make
no difference which is selected, they both work and with VOX.  Nice to know
if I ever need it, but I will continue to use FSK when in RTTY mode.  After
all these decades I am just more comfortable with it and it only takes 1
com port per "radio" running SO2V. And I know Win 10 can't mess up the
levels if I don't use any. Notebook when portable might get this treatment
though.


On Sat, Mar 21, 2020 at 12:38 PM M. George 
wrote:

> Joe, I can confirm the same success for using AFSK A with VOX to key the
> radio... and just for kicks and giggles... I have a K3S and a K3, the K3
> has the KIO3B install and I tested the AFSK A setup with MMTTY and N1MM on
> both radios.  *The conjecture / reports that it only works on a K3S is a
> total red herring as Wes and Rich have reported? Wow that is a tangent for
> sure...*  They (K3S/K3 with the USB KIO3B) work exactly the same gents,
> there is nothing magical about the K3S.  I actually made a quick and dirty
> YouTube video for you (Joe N9OK) and I'll send you the link to the video as
> soon as it's published.  It walks you would a setup for AFSK A direct with
> MMTTY and shows a test... and shows you all the configuration screens so
> you can pause the video and compare to your setup. I then reference that
> instance of MMTTY in N1MM and show the setup there and I work some
> stations... all using AFSK A on a K3 with the the KIO3B using VOX to key
> the radio. It's a March miracle.
>
> Max NG7M
>
> On Sat, Mar 21, 2020 at 10:57 AM Richard Ferch  wrote:
>
> > Like Wes, I have an original K3 which I have been using in AFSK-A for
> > years. I use N1MM+ with either MMTTY or 2Tone as the RTTY "engine". A few
> > months ago I installed the KIO3B upgrade in my K3. After I installed the
> > upgrade, AFSK-A RTTY worked right from the start using the USB audio
> codec.
> > I had no difficulties in getting it going.
> >
> > 73,
> > Rich VE3KI
> >
> > N9OK wrote:
> >
> > Jim,
> >
> > Thank you very much for confirming that what I see isn't due to a broken
> > K3.
> >
> > I agree that if firmware can fix this, it would be very nice. Elecraft
> had
> > this particular feature listed in the feature set for the upgrade, IIRC,
> > which is a large reason I splurged on the upgrade. I didn't want any more
> > external interface confusion.
> >
> > On to configuring for FSK and perhaps playing in BARTG a little.
> >
> > 73 Joe N9OK
> > __
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>
>
> --
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 doesn't work in AFSK-A mode but DATA-A does work. What's broken?

2020-03-21 Thread Joe Subich, W4TV 



On 2020-03-21 10:23 AM, Jim Rhodes wrote:

My only conclusion is that there is some logic in the K3 or the new
USB interface that is not routing the audio properly in AFSK mode.

If one look at the schematic fr the KIO3B there is *no difference*
between the KIO3B USB audio and the original KIO3 with an external
soundcard.  The sound card output is routed through the normally
closed connections of the Line In jack.

The *only way* one can have transmit with DATA_A and no output in
AFSK_A is if the user has CONFIG:AFSK TX = FIL ON and the RTTY
program's MARK tone does not match the MARK tone set in "PITCH".

The easy way to confirm this issue is simply set CONFIG:AFSK TX =
FIL OFF.

Issues of VOX are a red herring ... one can use software command
for PTT (TX; / RX; in MMTTY) or the DTR line on the CAT port
CONFIG:PTT-KEY = DTR-off (both of which can be supported by MMTTY,
and N1MM+).

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2020-03-21 10:23 AM, Jim Rhodes wrote:

OK, I set things back up with AFSK for RTTY instead of FSK. My results were
the same as Joe's. If I set data mode to DATA A things work as expected
whether using VOX or my usual interface for PTT. However when I switch data
mode to AFSK and VOX on and hit the TX button nothing happens, if I plug in
the FSK interface just for PTT the K3 goes into transmit but there is no
output and no tones in the monitor.  My only conclusion is that there is
some logic in the K3 or the new USB interface that is not routing the audio
properly in AFSK mode. This is apparently not the case with the K3S.  So
Joe there is your answer. It is not your setup it is the radio. Maybe when
the K4 is all rolled out they can take a look at the firmware and come up
with a solution.  My current FSK interface is 2 transistors and 2 resistors
in each of 2 db9s connected in parallel to the db15hd pins for PTT & FSK.
This allows for SO2V operation with minimal fuss. I have never owned a
commercial interface, so have no experience with them.

On Sat, Mar 21, 2020 at 6:26 AM n9ok  wrote:


Thanks to all who've provided suggestions.

I've given up on making ASFK-A work with RTTY and am going back to FSK.
It's
a more complex setup, but it works. The engineer part of me is pretty
irritated about this. I don't like giving up on problems. However, I think
I've done everything I can on this end and I have better things to do than
to stress about this.

73 Joe N9OK




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Re: [Elecraft] K3 doesn't work in AFSK-A mode but DATA-A does work. What's broken?

2020-03-21 Thread Jim Brown 

On 3/21/2020 10:43 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
It is not necessary to use VOX if the TX command is configured correctly 
in MMTTY.    I run MMTTY direct and do not use N1MM+ or other 
applications.    The reason for me NOT using VOX is that I use VOX for 
other operations and don't like having to change the VOX settings for 
MMTTY.   Of course if one doesn't use VOX for SSB then set the values 
for MMTTY and carry on.


I make thousands of RTTY and WSJT-X QSOs a year. For many years, I've 
used nothing but VOX to key my ancient K3s for SSB and all digital modes 
(RTTY and WSJT-X). Elecraft remember a lot of settings by band and mode, 
so once I've set them, levels have never been a problem for me. I'm 
using a good USB audio interface designed for semi-pro audio 
applications, a Tascam US100 (long discontinued, available at the great 
auction site). That improves decoding as compared to the built-in sound 
of many computers, but that's all it changes.


BTW -- with a K3 and no built-in USB, using VOX rather than a "pull to 
ground" PTT reduces by one the number of cables between computer and 
radio, and a second USB port in the radio.


73, Jim K9YC




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Re: [Elecraft] K3 doesn't work in AFSK-A mode but DATA-A does work. What's broken?

2020-03-21 Thread Jim Brown 

On 3/21/2020 8:07 AM, Jim Rhodes wrote:

The AFSK works
in DATA A, so it should work in AFSK A. Has to be an unintentional glitch.


That may depend on your RTTY software. By convention, MOST RTTY AFSK 
software (MMTTY, 2TONE, GRITTY) depends on the radio transmitting LSB, 
and that's how Elecraft radios do it -- the AFSK setting is LSB.


Virtually all other digital mode software uses USB, and DIGITAL A in 
Elecraft radios is USB.  Both AFSK and DIGITAL A take computer-encoded 
audio from the LINE IN.


In AFSK-A mode, Baud rate and RTTY tone frequencies settings in the 
radio must match the frequencies sent by the computer.


Other settings that can prevent RTTY from working are audio drive level 
from the computer and VOX.


73, K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 doesn't work in AFSK-A mode but DATA-A does work. What's broken?

2020-03-21 Thread M. George 
Bob, I'm very well aware of that fact... what we don't need here is yet
another tangent on how many different ways they are to key the K3/S from
MMTTY sheesh Yes... you can key the rig with the CAT setup from MMTTY
and or use a data line on a serial port etc.  you could use a foot pedal
hooked up to the PPT IN on the K3/S and stomp on the floor too.This is
not the point at this stage of the game.  Let's help get Joe up and
running.  The FUD that's going on here is out of control.  i.e. K3S works
differently than a K3 with the KIO3B.  Out of control.  Max NG7M

On Sat, Mar 21, 2020 at 11:44 AM Bob McGraw K4TAX 
wrote:

> It is not necessary to use VOX if the TX command is configured correctly
> in MMTTY.I run MMTTY direct and do not use N1MM+ or other
> applications.The reason for me NOT using VOX is that I use VOX for
> other operations and don't like having to change the VOX settings for
> MMTTY.   Of course if one doesn't use VOX for SSB then set the values
> for MMTTY and carry on.
>
> 73
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
> On 3/21/2020 12:37 PM, M. George wrote:
> > Joe, I can confirm the same success for using AFSK A with VOX to key the
> > radio... and just for kicks and giggles... I have a K3S and a K3, the K3
> > has the KIO3B install and I tested the AFSK A setup with MMTTY and N1MM
> on
> > both radios.  *The conjecture / reports that it only works on a K3S is a
> > total red herring as Wes and Rich have reported? Wow that is a tangent
> for
> > sure...*  They (K3S/K3 with the USB KIO3B) work exactly the same gents,
> > there is nothing magical about the K3S.  I actually made a quick and
> dirty
> > YouTube video for you (Joe N9OK) and I'll send you the link to the video
> as
> > soon as it's published.  It walks you would a setup for AFSK A direct
> with
> > MMTTY and shows a test... and shows you all the configuration screens so
> > you can pause the video and compare to your setup. I then reference that
> > instance of MMTTY in N1MM and show the setup there and I work some
> > stations... all using AFSK A on a K3 with the the KIO3B using VOX to key
> > the radio. It's a March miracle.
> >
> > Max NG7M
> >
> > On Sat, Mar 21, 2020 at 10:57 AM Richard Ferch  wrote:
> >
> >> Like Wes, I have an original K3 which I have been using in AFSK-A for
> >> years. I use N1MM+ with either MMTTY or 2Tone as the RTTY "engine". A
> few
> >> months ago I installed the KIO3B upgrade in my K3. After I installed the
> >> upgrade, AFSK-A RTTY worked right from the start using the USB audio
> codec.
> >> I had no difficulties in getting it going.
> >>
> >> 73,
> >> Rich VE3KI
> >>
> >> N9OK wrote:
> >>
> >> Jim,
> >>
> >> Thank you very much for confirming that what I see isn't due to a broken
> >> K3.
> >>
> >> I agree that if firmware can fix this, it would be very nice. Elecraft
> had
> >> this particular feature listed in the feature set for the upgrade, IIRC,
> >> which is a large reason I splurged on the upgrade. I didn't want any
> more
> >> external interface confusion.
> >>
> >> On to configuring for FSK and perhaps playing in BARTG a little.
> >>
> >> 73 Joe N9OK
> >> __
> >> Elecraft mailing list
> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >> Post: mailto:[email protected]
> >>
> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >> Message delivered to [email protected]
> >>
> >
>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 doesn't work in AFSK-A mode but DATA-A does work. What's broken?

2020-03-21 Thread Bob McGraw K4TAX 
It is not necessary to use VOX if the TX command is configured correctly 
in MMTTY.    I run MMTTY direct and do not use N1MM+ or other 
applications.    The reason for me NOT using VOX is that I use VOX for 
other operations and don't like having to change the VOX settings for 
MMTTY.   Of course if one doesn't use VOX for SSB then set the values 
for MMTTY and carry on.


73

Bob, K4TAX

On 3/21/2020 12:37 PM, M. George wrote:

Joe, I can confirm the same success for using AFSK A with VOX to key the
radio... and just for kicks and giggles... I have a K3S and a K3, the K3
has the KIO3B install and I tested the AFSK A setup with MMTTY and N1MM on
both radios.  *The conjecture / reports that it only works on a K3S is a
total red herring as Wes and Rich have reported? Wow that is a tangent for
sure...*  They (K3S/K3 with the USB KIO3B) work exactly the same gents,
there is nothing magical about the K3S.  I actually made a quick and dirty
YouTube video for you (Joe N9OK) and I'll send you the link to the video as
soon as it's published.  It walks you would a setup for AFSK A direct with
MMTTY and shows a test... and shows you all the configuration screens so
you can pause the video and compare to your setup. I then reference that
instance of MMTTY in N1MM and show the setup there and I work some
stations... all using AFSK A on a K3 with the the KIO3B using VOX to key
the radio. It's a March miracle.

Max NG7M

On Sat, Mar 21, 2020 at 10:57 AM Richard Ferch  wrote:


Like Wes, I have an original K3 which I have been using in AFSK-A for
years. I use N1MM+ with either MMTTY or 2Tone as the RTTY "engine". A few
months ago I installed the KIO3B upgrade in my K3. After I installed the
upgrade, AFSK-A RTTY worked right from the start using the USB audio codec.
I had no difficulties in getting it going.

73,
Rich VE3KI

N9OK wrote:

Jim,

Thank you very much for confirming that what I see isn't due to a broken
K3.

I agree that if firmware can fix this, it would be very nice. Elecraft had
this particular feature listed in the feature set for the upgrade, IIRC,
which is a large reason I splurged on the upgrade. I didn't want any more
external interface confusion.

On to configuring for FSK and perhaps playing in BARTG a little.

73 Joe N9OK
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 doesn't work in AFSK-A mode but DATA-A does work. What's broken?

2020-03-21 Thread M. George 
Joe, I can confirm the same success for using AFSK A with VOX to key the
radio... and just for kicks and giggles... I have a K3S and a K3, the K3
has the KIO3B install and I tested the AFSK A setup with MMTTY and N1MM on
both radios.  *The conjecture / reports that it only works on a K3S is a
total red herring as Wes and Rich have reported? Wow that is a tangent for
sure...*  They (K3S/K3 with the USB KIO3B) work exactly the same gents,
there is nothing magical about the K3S.  I actually made a quick and dirty
YouTube video for you (Joe N9OK) and I'll send you the link to the video as
soon as it's published.  It walks you would a setup for AFSK A direct with
MMTTY and shows a test... and shows you all the configuration screens so
you can pause the video and compare to your setup. I then reference that
instance of MMTTY in N1MM and show the setup there and I work some
stations... all using AFSK A on a K3 with the the KIO3B using VOX to key
the radio. It's a March miracle.

Max NG7M

On Sat, Mar 21, 2020 at 10:57 AM Richard Ferch  wrote:

> Like Wes, I have an original K3 which I have been using in AFSK-A for
> years. I use N1MM+ with either MMTTY or 2Tone as the RTTY "engine". A few
> months ago I installed the KIO3B upgrade in my K3. After I installed the
> upgrade, AFSK-A RTTY worked right from the start using the USB audio codec.
> I had no difficulties in getting it going.
>
> 73,
> Rich VE3KI
>
> N9OK wrote:
>
> Jim,
>
> Thank you very much for confirming that what I see isn't due to a broken
> K3.
>
> I agree that if firmware can fix this, it would be very nice. Elecraft had
> this particular feature listed in the feature set for the upgrade, IIRC,
> which is a large reason I splurged on the upgrade. I didn't want any more
> external interface confusion.
>
> On to configuring for FSK and perhaps playing in BARTG a little.
>
> 73 Joe N9OK
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 doesn't work in AFSK-A mode but DATA-A does work. What's broken?

2020-03-21 Thread Richard Ferch 
Like Wes, I have an original K3 which I have been using in AFSK-A for
years. I use N1MM+ with either MMTTY or 2Tone as the RTTY "engine". A few
months ago I installed the KIO3B upgrade in my K3. After I installed the
upgrade, AFSK-A RTTY worked right from the start using the USB audio codec.
I had no difficulties in getting it going.

73,
Rich VE3KI

N9OK wrote:

Jim,

Thank you very much for confirming that what I see isn't due to a broken K3.

I agree that if firmware can fix this, it would be very nice. Elecraft had
this particular feature listed in the feature set for the upgrade, IIRC,
which is a large reason I splurged on the upgrade. I didn't want any more
external interface confusion.

On to configuring for FSK and perhaps playing in BARTG a little.

73 Joe N9OK
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 doesn't work in AFSK-A mode but DATA-A does work. What's broken?

2020-03-21 Thread Ed Pflueger 
Well I made the same modifications to K3 #2971 and using the USB interface
am able to do AFSK just fine using MMTTY.  Sounds like there is a Gremlin
loose somewhere.  I have a K3S (10858) and using a dummy load and wattmeter
and can copy everything that #2971 transmits and vice versa.  I did the same
thing with my K3S (10853) in the house and 2971 out in the garage and all
systems are go..

Sorry I can't help more.

Ed.. AB4IQ

-Original Message-
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jim Rhodes
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2020 9:23 AM
To: n9ok 
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 doesn't work in AFSK-A mode but DATA-A does work.
What's broken?

OK, I set things back up with AFSK for RTTY instead of FSK. My results were
the same as Joe's. If I set data mode to DATA A things work as expected
whether using VOX or my usual interface for PTT. However when I switch data
mode to AFSK and VOX on and hit the TX button nothing happens, if I plug in
the FSK interface just for PTT the K3 goes into transmit but there is no
output and no tones in the monitor.  My only conclusion is that there is
some logic in the K3 or the new USB interface that is not routing the audio
properly in AFSK mode. This is apparently not the case with the K3S.  So Joe
there is your answer. It is not your setup it is the radio. Maybe when the
K4 is all rolled out they can take a look at the firmware and come up with a
solution.  My current FSK interface is 2 transistors and 2 resistors in each
of 2 db9s connected in parallel to the db15hd pins for PTT & FSK.
This allows for SO2V operation with minimal fuss. I have never owned a
commercial interface, so have no experience with them.

On Sat, Mar 21, 2020 at 6:26 AM n9ok  wrote:

> Thanks to all who've provided suggestions.
>
> I've given up on making ASFK-A work with RTTY and am going back to FSK.
> It's
> a more complex setup, but it works. The engineer part of me is pretty 
> irritated about this. I don't like giving up on problems. However, I 
> think I've done everything I can on this end and I have better things 
> to do than to stress about this.
>
> 73 Joe N9OK
>
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 doesn't work in AFSK-A mode but DATA-A does work. What's broken?

2020-03-21 Thread Jim Rhodes 
I think it would be good to have. As would FSK via the USB. The AFSK works
in DATA A, so it should work in AFSK A. Has to be an unintentional glitch.

On Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 09:48 n9ok  wrote:

> Jim,
>
> Thank you very much for confirming that what I see isn't due to a broken
> K3.
>
> I agree that if firmware can fix this, it would be very nice. Elecraft had
> this particular feature listed in the feature set for the upgrade, IIRC,
> which is a large reason I splurged on the upgrade. I didn't want any more
> external interface confusion.
>
> On to configuring for FSK and perhaps playing in BARTG a little.
>
> 73 Joe N9OK
>
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 doesn't work in AFSK-A mode but DATA-A does work. What's broken?

2020-03-21 Thread n9ok 
Jim,

Thank you very much for confirming that what I see isn't due to a broken K3.

I agree that if firmware can fix this, it would be very nice. Elecraft had
this particular feature listed in the feature set for the upgrade, IIRC,
which is a large reason I splurged on the upgrade. I didn't want any more
external interface confusion.

On to configuring for FSK and perhaps playing in BARTG a little.

73 Joe N9OK



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 doesn't work in AFSK-A mode but DATA-A does work. What's broken?

2020-03-21 Thread Jim Rhodes 
OK, I set things back up with AFSK for RTTY instead of FSK. My results were
the same as Joe's. If I set data mode to DATA A things work as expected
whether using VOX or my usual interface for PTT. However when I switch data
mode to AFSK and VOX on and hit the TX button nothing happens, if I plug in
the FSK interface just for PTT the K3 goes into transmit but there is no
output and no tones in the monitor.  My only conclusion is that there is
some logic in the K3 or the new USB interface that is not routing the audio
properly in AFSK mode. This is apparently not the case with the K3S.  So
Joe there is your answer. It is not your setup it is the radio. Maybe when
the K4 is all rolled out they can take a look at the firmware and come up
with a solution.  My current FSK interface is 2 transistors and 2 resistors
in each of 2 db9s connected in parallel to the db15hd pins for PTT & FSK.
This allows for SO2V operation with minimal fuss. I have never owned a
commercial interface, so have no experience with them.

On Sat, Mar 21, 2020 at 6:26 AM n9ok  wrote:

> Thanks to all who've provided suggestions.
>
> I've given up on making ASFK-A work with RTTY and am going back to FSK.
> It's
> a more complex setup, but it works. The engineer part of me is pretty
> irritated about this. I don't like giving up on problems. However, I think
> I've done everything I can on this end and I have better things to do than
> to stress about this.
>
> 73 Joe N9OK
>
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 doesn't work in AFSK-A mode but DATA-A does work. What's broken?

2020-03-21 Thread n9ok 
Thanks to all who've provided suggestions.

I've given up on making ASFK-A work with RTTY and am going back to FSK. It's
a more complex setup, but it works. The engineer part of me is pretty
irritated about this. I don't like giving up on problems. However, I think
I've done everything I can on this end and I have better things to do than
to stress about this.

73 Joe N9OK



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 doesn't work in AFSK-A mode but DATA-A does work. What's broken?

2020-03-21 Thread n9ok 
Wes, not sure why you are having success with this and I don't seem to. I'm
jealous. I'm not aware of any cockpit errors on this end. I was really
hoping there was, and that's one reason I reached out on the reflector. I've
made numerous cockpit errors which later were obvious to me once I was made
aware of them.

73 Joe N9OK



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 doesn't work in AFSK-A mode but DATA-A does work. What's broken?

2020-03-21 Thread n9ok 
Jim, I'll be curious as to your results.
Joe N9OK



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 doesn't work in AFSK-A mode but DATA-A does work. What's broken?

2020-03-21 Thread n9ok 
Gernot, yes, I have selected that configuration.
73 Joe N9OK



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 doesn't work in AFSK-A mode but DATA-A does work. What's broken?

2020-03-21 Thread n9ok 
Max, all I've really used for RTTY has been FSK, using my MKII as the
interface. I'm sold on the fact that the signal is probably cleaner. With my
new KIO3B board I was hoping to get to a single-cable interface to greatly
simplify my setup. At least, I thought I remembered reading that this was
possible in Elecraft literature. I was really sick of the rats-nest of wires
behind my K3. While I love the K3, sometimes I wonder if a Flex would be
less hassle overall simply due to the simpler interface.

I'm skeptical anyone has made RTTY with without some kind of addition
interface beyond a simple USB cable since ASFK-A keying with VOX appears
broken. Other digital modes shouldn't be a problem since DATA-A works.

One of my friends, N7US, has been suggesting the MORTTY solution. Yet
another interface. Sheesh. Why can't it just be all built into the K3?
There's probably a good technical reason. I'm a EE who works on transmitters
professionally but don't know the nuances of USB interface. I guess it must
be hard to make it work. Or perhaps it's a limitation of how the K3/K3s is
architected.

It would be nice once the lockdown in CA is over, if one of the Elecraft
people could chime in on this.

BTW I'm about 1/2 thru your FSK video. Very informative. Thanks for putting
it together. If I get an MORTTY I'll be sure to watch your other video.

Joe N9OK



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 doesn't work in AFSK-A mode but DATA-A does work. What's broken?

2020-03-20 Thread Wes 
I have used a K3 on AFSK RTTY beginning in 2008 with the laptop computer 
internal sound card until I got a K3S and ultimately converted to the internal 
sound device.


I always use VOX and a variant of MMTTY (AXETTY for DXBase). My earlier 
suggestions were based on cockpit errors that I have encountered.  Now the 
system works flawlessly, even while using LPBridge to share a single port with 
multiple apps.


Wes  N7WS


On 3/20/2020 7:36 PM, Jim Rhodes wrote:

I have seen several different people make suggestions (often the same ones
others have suggested) but I have not seen anyone with a similar setup tell
what their experience is. I do have a similar setup but am not currently
living near home due to temporary work location.  I will be home over the
weekend and will try to duplicate the issue. I have always used FSK when
running RTTY but use DATA A of course when using FT modes so I have no
comparison until I try AFSK in RTTY.  K3 is currently boxed up since
returning from a portable op, so will attempt to find time to set it all
back up and give AFSK a try. (Why do we call it "wireless"?)



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 doesn't work in AFSK-A mode but DATA-A does work. What's broken?

2020-03-20 Thread Jim Rhodes 
I have seen several different people make suggestions (often the same ones
others have suggested) but I have not seen anyone with a similar setup tell
what their experience is. I do have a similar setup but am not currently
living near home due to temporary work location.  I will be home over the
weekend and will try to duplicate the issue. I have always used FSK when
running RTTY but use DATA A of course when using FT modes so I have no
comparison until I try AFSK in RTTY.  K3 is currently boxed up since
returning from a portable op, so will attempt to find time to set it all
back up and give AFSK a try. (Why do we call it "wireless"?)

On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 8:06 PM  wrote:

> Joe,
> Have you selected LINE-IN in the MIC-SEL config-menu?
> 73 Gernot DF5RF
>
> Am 20.03.2020 um 13:40 schrieb Joe N9OK:
> > I've reached out to Elecraft Tech Support on this issue. With their
> locale
> > on lockdown, I think they have their hands full just trying to maintain
> > some sense of normalcy. So I'm hoping someone here can point me in the
> > right direction.
> >
> > I've recently upgraded my K3 with numerous "last time buy" options (KAT3A
> > antenna tuner, 2 KSUN3A synthesizers, and KIO3B usb board). One goal was
> to
> > remove the Microkeyer II and simplifying the setup.
> >
> > What I'm finding now is that I can't make RTTY work correctly. I use
> MMTTY
> > to generate a simple warble signal, which is sent to my K3. The K3 is set
> > to AFSK-A, VOX enable, audio levels set correctly. What happens is that
> the
> > K3 TX LED illuminates, but nothing is heard with the Monitor (ie, thru
> the
> > K3 speaker), and there is no RF transmitted. However, when I use DATA-A,
> I
> > do hear tones using Monitor, and there is RF power.
> >
> > I get the same results using either the K3 internal sound card, or
> > externally-generated audio (fed from my PC soundcard to Line-In on the
> K3).
> >
> > Hoping there was a configuration issue, I factory reset my K3. That
> didn't
> > help.
> >
> > It's probable this issue has been there since I first purchased my K3
> new 8
> > years ago, but I never noticed. My MKII was used as my interface, and I
> was
> > running FSK for RTTY. I did have many configuration issues with my MKII
> > setup, which in retrospect might well be related to the AFSK issue that's
> > now obvious.
> >
> > I'm suspecting this is a hardware issue. I have the 59 pages of
> schematics,
> > and am going thru them to see if I can identify the issue so I can fix
> it.
> > I would appreciate comments / suggestions / ideas to point me in the
> right
> > direction.
> >
> > 73, Joe N9OK
> >
> > 73, Joe N9OK
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 doesn't work in AFSK-A mode but DATA-A does work. What's broken?

2020-03-20 Thread gt-i 

Joe,
Have you selected LINE-IN in the MIC-SEL config-menu?
73 Gernot DF5RF

Am 20.03.2020 um 13:40 schrieb Joe N9OK:

I've reached out to Elecraft Tech Support on this issue. With their locale
on lockdown, I think they have their hands full just trying to maintain
some sense of normalcy. So I'm hoping someone here can point me in the
right direction.

I've recently upgraded my K3 with numerous "last time buy" options (KAT3A
antenna tuner, 2 KSUN3A synthesizers, and KIO3B usb board). One goal was to
remove the Microkeyer II and simplifying the setup.

What I'm finding now is that I can't make RTTY work correctly. I use MMTTY
to generate a simple warble signal, which is sent to my K3. The K3 is set
to AFSK-A, VOX enable, audio levels set correctly. What happens is that the
K3 TX LED illuminates, but nothing is heard with the Monitor (ie, thru the
K3 speaker), and there is no RF transmitted. However, when I use DATA-A, I
do hear tones using Monitor, and there is RF power.

I get the same results using either the K3 internal sound card, or
externally-generated audio (fed from my PC soundcard to Line-In on the K3).

Hoping there was a configuration issue, I factory reset my K3. That didn't
help.

It's probable this issue has been there since I first purchased my K3 new 8
years ago, but I never noticed. My MKII was used as my interface, and I was
running FSK for RTTY. I did have many configuration issues with my MKII
setup, which in retrospect might well be related to the AFSK issue that's
now obvious.

I'm suspecting this is a hardware issue. I have the 59 pages of schematics,
and am going thru them to see if I can identify the issue so I can fix it.
I would appreciate comments / suggestions / ideas to point me in the right
direction.

73, Joe N9OK

73, Joe N9OK
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 doesn't work in AFSK-A mode but DATA-A does work. What's broken?

2020-03-20 Thread M. George 
Joe, thanks for the follow up note... (I had to add confusion) but, I
should mention that If do want to setup and transmit FSK internally to the
K3/S AND you don't want to go the serial port route to control PTT and FSK
off Serial port control lines.  You could go with TinyFSK... which
dedicates a single board computer to timing the Mark and Shift tones and
PTT.  So a couple years after the video you are watching now, I got around
to making a TinyFSK Video 
which shows you how to use what is called a MORTTY Kit
 which makes using TinyFSK a breeze:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cT5SfhUtTAw  All as I'm saying is, if you
want to use internal FSK with your K3/S, you might want to consider buying
a MORTTY kit if you don't want to use a serial port to control PTT and FSK
mark/shift timing.  So this video covers setting up MORTTY. Clearly, you
can start off with AFSK and they venture into the FSK world later... or
not...

What you have in the K3/S with the later firmware is the best rig available
for creating the cleanest / narrowest / bandwidth friendly FSK signal.  And
if you invest the time into setting up FSK, you are immune from ever under
driving or over driving an AFSK signal.  Not to open up this big freaking
can of worms and start a rhetorical holy war that has been fought over the
years between the pros and cons of FSK and AFSK... but using FSK on a K3/S
alleviates you from worrying about setting AFSK drive levels.  I'm not
saying AFSK is bad... (I'm sitting here with fear and trepidation that
someone is going to go on a tirade now about AFSK being better than FSK...
GROAN... please don't do it here on the Elecraft List).  I prefer FSK on my
K3S because I never need to worry about fiddling with the drive levels in a
moments notice when some DX station comes on RTTY (which is rare these days
anyway with the FT modes, sigh...).  One less thing to worry about.  If
someone else loves AFSK and dreams about AFSK and eats and sleeps AFSK and
talks about how wonderful it is with your XYL... knock your self out.  It's
nice to have options.  A properly driven sound card based AFSK signal is
great too.  I don't argue or deny that at all.

Anyway, have fun tinkering and deciding what you like based on your own
research.  Max NG7M

On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 3:19 PM n9ok  wrote:

> Thanks, Max. I've seen several other threads reference your video recently.
> Taking a look now. Focusing almost 2 hours to watch something is daunting
> :), but I'm watching now. 10 minutes in, it's informative so far.
> 73 Joe N9OK
>
>

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 doesn't work in AFSK-A mode but DATA-A does work. What's broken?

2020-03-20 Thread n9ok 
Thanks, Max. I've seen several other threads reference your video recently.
Taking a look now. Focusing almost 2 hours to watch something is daunting
:), but I'm watching now. 10 minutes in, it's informative so far.
73 Joe N9OK



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 doesn't work in AFSK-A mode but DATA-A does work. What's broken?

2020-03-20 Thread M. George 
Joe, I created a super detailed and verbose YouTube video on the K3 RTTY /
FSK setup .  If you are not
interested in setting up FSK, you still might find it handy on setting up
the receive side of the equation.  It goes in to great detail on selecting
the tones you prefer and demos everything due to the fact that I made the
video while an active contest was going on.  You can jump head and back 10
seconds at a time on YouTube with the J and L keys and pause with the K or
space bar... or jump ahead and back with the arrow keys 5 seconds.

If you devour the whole video, it pretty much covers about all there is to
cover on a K3 RTTY setup with N1MM and MMTTY / FSK.  Again, the audio
receive setup would still be helpful if you decide to go the AFSK route
which is fine too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EToCJ5GeZSE

Based on comments over the last several years, many have found this useful
and I only needed to go through the explanation once. :) Max NG7M

On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 6:40 AM Joe N9OK  wrote:

> I've reached out to Elecraft Tech Support on this issue. With their locale
> on lockdown, I think they have their hands full just trying to maintain
> some sense of normalcy. So I'm hoping someone here can point me in the
> right direction.
>
> I've recently upgraded my K3 with numerous "last time buy" options (KAT3A
> antenna tuner, 2 KSUN3A synthesizers, and KIO3B usb board). One goal was to
> remove the Microkeyer II and simplifying the setup.
>
> What I'm finding now is that I can't make RTTY work correctly. I use MMTTY
> to generate a simple warble signal, which is sent to my K3. The K3 is set
> to AFSK-A, VOX enable, audio levels set correctly. What happens is that the
> K3 TX LED illuminates, but nothing is heard with the Monitor (ie, thru the
> K3 speaker), and there is no RF transmitted. However, when I use DATA-A, I
> do hear tones using Monitor, and there is RF power.
>
> I get the same results using either the K3 internal sound card, or
> externally-generated audio (fed from my PC soundcard to Line-In on the K3).
>
> Hoping there was a configuration issue, I factory reset my K3. That didn't
> help.
>
> It's probable this issue has been there since I first purchased my K3 new 8
> years ago, but I never noticed. My MKII was used as my interface, and I was
> running FSK for RTTY. I did have many configuration issues with my MKII
> setup, which in retrospect might well be related to the AFSK issue that's
> now obvious.
>
> I'm suspecting this is a hardware issue. I have the 59 pages of schematics,
> and am going thru them to see if I can identify the issue so I can fix it.
> I would appreciate comments / suggestions / ideas to point me in the right
> direction.
>
> 73, Joe N9OK
>
> 73, Joe N9OK
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 doesn't work in AFSK-A mode but DATA-A does work. What's broken?

2020-03-20 Thread n9ok 
Don, 5 solid bars on the ALC meter.

I've tried numerous tone combinations including 915/170 and 2127/170. Solid
5 bars ALC for all. TX illuminates, but no Monitor tone and no RF Power.

Joe N9OK



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 doesn't work in AFSK-A mode but DATA-A does work. What's broken?

2020-03-20 Thread Don Wilhelm 
You said you have sufficient audio, but please look at the ALC meter and 
tell us whether or not you have 4 bars solid with the 5th flashing 
during transmit.  That is proof of sufficient audio.


Have you tried setting a different tone (say 915Hz) in both MMTTY and 
the K3?


73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/20/2020 10:30 AM, n9ok wrote:

Bill, I've greatly simplified the setup for troubleshooting. All I have
running is MMTTY. The radio mode is for sure ASFK A.

If I simply change the mode to DATA A, all is well.

This seems to argue again a hardware issue, at least for the keying part of
the circuit.

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 doesn't work in AFSK-A mode but DATA-A does work. What's broken?

2020-03-20 Thread n9ok 
Bill, I've greatly simplified the setup for troubleshooting. All I have
running is MMTTY. The radio mode is for sure ASFK A.

If I simply change the mode to DATA A, all is well.

This seems to argue again a hardware issue, at least for the keying part of
the circuit.



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 doesn't work in AFSK-A mode but DATA-A does work. What's broken?

2020-03-20 Thread Nr4c 
Are you using software such as n1mm+ to send the RTTY?  If so check to verify 
it isn’t changing the DATA/AFSK to DATA/FSK D? 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Mar 20, 2020, at 8:42 AM, Joe N9OK  wrote:
> 
> I've reached out to Elecraft Tech Support on this issue. With their locale
> on lockdown, I think they have their hands full just trying to maintain
> some sense of normalcy. So I'm hoping someone here can point me in the
> right direction.
> 
> I've recently upgraded my K3 with numerous "last time buy" options (KAT3A
> antenna tuner, 2 KSUN3A synthesizers, and KIO3B usb board). One goal was to
> remove the Microkeyer II and simplifying the setup.
> 
> What I'm finding now is that I can't make RTTY work correctly. I use MMTTY
> to generate a simple warble signal, which is sent to my K3. The K3 is set
> to AFSK-A, VOX enable, audio levels set correctly. What happens is that the
> K3 TX LED illuminates, but nothing is heard with the Monitor (ie, thru the
> K3 speaker), and there is no RF transmitted. However, when I use DATA-A, I
> do hear tones using Monitor, and there is RF power.
> 
> I get the same results using either the K3 internal sound card, or
> externally-generated audio (fed from my PC soundcard to Line-In on the K3).
> 
> Hoping there was a configuration issue, I factory reset my K3. That didn't
> help.
> 
> It's probable this issue has been there since I first purchased my K3 new 8
> years ago, but I never noticed. My MKII was used as my interface, and I was
> running FSK for RTTY. I did have many configuration issues with my MKII
> setup, which in retrospect might well be related to the AFSK issue that's
> now obvious.
> 
> I'm suspecting this is a hardware issue. I have the 59 pages of schematics,
> and am going thru them to see if I can identify the issue so I can fix it.
> I would appreciate comments / suggestions / ideas to point me in the right
> direction.
> 
> 73, Joe N9OK
> 
> 73, Joe N9OK
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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