Re: [Elecraft] SP-3 frequency range question

[Don Wilhelm]

Chuck,

With only 100mW of audio from the KX3 phones jack, I doubt the KX3 will 
drive any speaker directly.  Use amplified speakers.

The SP3 will work fine if you add an amplifier.

I use the West Mountain Radio ComSpeakers with my KX3.  They are not 
only amplified, but are shielded for RF immunity.  No problems here with 
output at 100 watts (I don't run more than that here, never have).


73,
Don W3FPR

On 2/14/2018 9:26 AM, hawley, charles j jr wrote:

Will the KX3 drive the SP3 adequately?

Chuck Hawley
  c-haw...@illinois.edu

  Amateur Radio, KE9UW
  aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles

From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] on 
behalf of Walter Underwood [wun...@wunderwood.org]
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 10:40 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] SP-3 frequency range question

I use the same Pyle speakers, mostly because they were cheap, but they sound 
OK. My RX EQ is flat.

With my KX3, I drive them with a $10 12V audio amp, because the phones output 
is 100 mW.

Details here:

https://observer.wunderwood.org/2017/03/04/speakers-for-my-elecraft-kx3/

wunder
Walter Underwood
wun...@wunderwood.org
http://observer.wunderwood.org/  (my blog)


On Feb 5, 2018, at 12:23 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV <li...@subich.com> wrote:

On 2/5/2018 1:43 PM, James Wilson wrote:

Great for the K3 on SSB or CW. Not Hi-Fi for music but entirely
adequate.


I've been using the Pyle PCB3 series "cube" speakers since well
before the SP3 was introduced.  The Pyle speakers are spec'd at
90 - 20 KHz (about the same as the SP3) and are easy to drive
as well.

I notice no difference in response between the speakers and my
headphones (typically Yamaha CM500 but occasionally smaller,
ear bud or "professional" Sony headphones) *HOWEVER* I have the
K3 RX EQ set to roll off (-16 dB) the 50 and 100 Hz bands with
a -6 dB roll off in the 200 Hz band for SSB/AM and with -16 dB
at 50 Hz and -3 dB at 200 Hz for CW.

There is no issue for me with the roll off if/when I listen to
AM or shortwave broadcast but I can certainly "flatten out" the
response by changing the RX EQ to flat or even add a bit of low
end boost if band conditions are quiet/no QRM.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2/5/2018 1:43 PM, James Wilson wrote:

Bill,
Personally, I like the SP-3 speaker. I have two of them and,
compared with my Koss headphones, they both sound like
the headphones. Great for the K3 on SSB or CW. Not Hi-Fi
for music but entirely adequate. PLUS, they look good
in the K-Line.
Jim - W4RKS


In the real world, does the SP-3 exhibit well rounded frequency
response? Or, is the response more directed for "communications use"?
How is it for listening to AM broadcast? How does it do with the famous
K3 hiss? How does it do with a less capable receiver (one without an EQ)?
I am considering some station simplification, hence the SP-3. Currently,
I am using the Behringer MS40 pair. Super sound, but quite large and do
have an internal amp (I have experienced no RF problems).
Bill W2BLC K-Line

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Re: [Elecraft] SP-3 frequency range question

[hawley, charles j jr]

Will the KX3 drive the SP3 adequately?

Chuck Hawley
 c-haw...@illinois.edu

 Amateur Radio, KE9UW
 aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles

From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] on 
behalf of Walter Underwood [wun...@wunderwood.org]
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 10:40 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] SP-3 frequency range question

I use the same Pyle speakers, mostly because they were cheap, but they sound 
OK. My RX EQ is flat.

With my KX3, I drive them with a $10 12V audio amp, because the phones output 
is 100 mW.

Details here:

https://observer.wunderwood.org/2017/03/04/speakers-for-my-elecraft-kx3/

wunder
Walter Underwood
wun...@wunderwood.org
http://observer.wunderwood.org/  (my blog)

> On Feb 5, 2018, at 12:23 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV <li...@subich.com> wrote:
>
> On 2/5/2018 1:43 PM, James Wilson wrote:
>> Great for the K3 on SSB or CW. Not Hi-Fi for music but entirely
>> adequate.
>
> I've been using the Pyle PCB3 series "cube" speakers since well
> before the SP3 was introduced.  The Pyle speakers are spec'd at
> 90 - 20 KHz (about the same as the SP3) and are easy to drive
> as well.
>
> I notice no difference in response between the speakers and my
> headphones (typically Yamaha CM500 but occasionally smaller,
> ear bud or "professional" Sony headphones) *HOWEVER* I have the
> K3 RX EQ set to roll off (-16 dB) the 50 and 100 Hz bands with
> a -6 dB roll off in the 200 Hz band for SSB/AM and with -16 dB
> at 50 Hz and -3 dB at 200 Hz for CW.
>
> There is no issue for me with the roll off if/when I listen to
> AM or shortwave broadcast but I can certainly "flatten out" the
> response by changing the RX EQ to flat or even add a bit of low
> end boost if band conditions are quiet/no QRM.
>
> 73,
>
>   ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 2/5/2018 1:43 PM, James Wilson wrote:
>> Bill,
>> Personally, I like the SP-3 speaker. I have two of them and,
>> compared with my Koss headphones, they both sound like
>> the headphones. Great for the K3 on SSB or CW. Not Hi-Fi
>> for music but entirely adequate. PLUS, they look good
>> in the K-Line.
>> Jim - W4RKS
>> 
>>> In the real world, does the SP-3 exhibit well rounded frequency
>>> response? Or, is the response more directed for "communications use"?
>>> How is it for listening to AM broadcast? How does it do with the famous
>>> K3 hiss? How does it do with a less capable receiver (one without an EQ)?
>>> I am considering some station simplification, hence the SP-3. Currently,
>>> I am using the Behringer MS40 pair. Super sound, but quite large and do
>>> have an internal amp (I have experienced no RF problems).
>>> Bill W2BLC K-Line
>> __
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Re: [Elecraft] SP-3 frequency range question

[Walter Underwood]

I use the same Pyle speakers, mostly because they were cheap, but they sound 
OK. My RX EQ is flat.

With my KX3, I drive them with a $10 12V audio amp, because the phones output 
is 100 mW.

Details here:

https://observer.wunderwood.org/2017/03/04/speakers-for-my-elecraft-kx3/

wunder
Walter Underwood
wun...@wunderwood.org
http://observer.wunderwood.org/  (my blog)

> On Feb 5, 2018, at 12:23 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV  wrote:
> 
> On 2/5/2018 1:43 PM, James Wilson wrote:
>> Great for the K3 on SSB or CW. Not Hi-Fi for music but entirely
>> adequate. 
> 
> I've been using the Pyle PCB3 series "cube" speakers since well
> before the SP3 was introduced.  The Pyle speakers are spec'd at
> 90 - 20 KHz (about the same as the SP3) and are easy to drive
> as well.
> 
> I notice no difference in response between the speakers and my
> headphones (typically Yamaha CM500 but occasionally smaller,
> ear bud or "professional" Sony headphones) *HOWEVER* I have the
> K3 RX EQ set to roll off (-16 dB) the 50 and 100 Hz bands with
> a -6 dB roll off in the 200 Hz band for SSB/AM and with -16 dB
> at 50 Hz and -3 dB at 200 Hz for CW.
> 
> There is no issue for me with the roll off if/when I listen to
> AM or shortwave broadcast but I can certainly "flatten out" the
> response by changing the RX EQ to flat or even add a bit of low
> end boost if band conditions are quiet/no QRM.
> 
> 73,
> 
>   ... Joe, W4TV
> 
> 
> On 2/5/2018 1:43 PM, James Wilson wrote:
>> Bill,
>> Personally, I like the SP-3 speaker. I have two of them and,
>> compared with my Koss headphones, they both sound like
>> the headphones. Great for the K3 on SSB or CW. Not Hi-Fi
>> for music but entirely adequate. PLUS, they look good
>> in the K-Line.
>> Jim - W4RKS
>> 
>>> In the real world, does the SP-3 exhibit well rounded frequency
>>> response? Or, is the response more directed for "communications use"?
>>> How is it for listening to AM broadcast? How does it do with the famous
>>> K3 hiss? How does it do with a less capable receiver (one without an EQ)?
>>> I am considering some station simplification, hence the SP-3. Currently,
>>> I am using the Behringer MS40 pair. Super sound, but quite large and do
>>> have an internal amp (I have experienced no RF problems).
>>> Bill W2BLC K-Line
>> __
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Re: [Elecraft] SP-3 frequency range question

[Dennis Moore]

I sometimes listen to a ball game on the K3 with two SP3s, sounds great 
even when I forget to switch from LSB to AM. I set a wide rcv filter and 
haven't set RX equalization to take advantage of them. I just plugged 
them in and started listening. I'm not an audiophile.


73, Dennis NJ6G


On 2/4/2018 12:36, Bill wrote:
This is another repeat - the first two attempts did not appear. Makes 
me wonder if I am blocked for some reason???



In the real world, does the SP-3 exhibit well rounded frequency 
response? Or, is the response more directed for "communications use"? 
How is it for listening to AM broadcast? How does it do with the 
famous K3 hiss? How does it do with a less capable receiver (one 
without an EQ)?


I am considering some station simplification, hence the SP-3. 
Currently, I am using the Behringer MS40 pair. Super sound, but quite 
large and do have an internal amp (I have experienced no RF problems).


Bill W2BLC K-Line


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Re: [Elecraft] SP-3 frequency range question

[Bill]

Wayne - the receive EQ on my K3 is pure gold! It allows me to work 
around age-diminished hearing and enjoy - what is to me - full range 
hearing. Similar to how high quality hearing aids work.


I just want to hear how well they do (or don't do) in the real world - 
on various desks, etc. And, maybe with other rigs lacking EQ 
capabilities. It is all about performance - and not specification.


SP-3s will be a part of my station desk redesign project - if I choose 
them. Price is not a factor - after all, how much are they costing after 
ten or more years daily use.


Bill W2BLC K-Line


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Re: [Elecraft] SP-3 frequency range question

[Bill]

Well, between list failures and a lack of the "real world" experience 
replies I was seeking, I have decided to continue using the Behringer 
MS40 pair. Just wasn't meant to be.


I did receive a couple of direct replies indicating I might well be 
disappointed in the low end department - which I need for AM and SWL. I 
also dabble in ESSB.


Actually, when it comes to receiving - I personally think it is more 
about the Receive EQ in the K3 than about the quality/specs of the 
speaker. Similar to how a cheap mic can be made to sound like an RCA 
ribbon mic. Of course, this is not true for a lesser rig - in which 
case, speaker choice can be very important.


I was considering the SP3 due to its size and K3 style match. However, 
as the new desk is still in the paper/pencil stage, I can accommodate 
the Behringers.


Bill W2BLC K-Line

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Re: [Elecraft] SP-3 frequency range question

[James Wilson]

Bill,

Personally, I like the SP-3 speaker. I have two of them and,
compared with my Koss headphones, they both sound like
the headphones. Great for the K3 on SSB or CW. Not Hi-Fi
for music but entirely adequate. PLUS, they look good
in the K-Line.

Jim - W4RKS


>In the real world, does the SP-3 exhibit well rounded frequency
>response? Or, is the response more directed for "communications use"?
>How is it for listening to AM broadcast? How does it do with the famous
>K3 hiss? How does it do with a less capable receiver (one without an EQ)?

>I am considering some station simplification, hence the SP-3. Currently,
>I am using the Behringer MS40 pair. Super sound, but quite large and do
>have an internal amp (I have experienced no RF problems).

>Bill W2BLC K-Line
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Re: [Elecraft] SP-3 frequency range question

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

On 2/5/2018 1:43 PM, James Wilson wrote:

Great for the K3 on SSB or CW. Not Hi-Fi for music but entirely
adequate. 


I've been using the Pyle PCB3 series "cube" speakers since well
before the SP3 was introduced.  The Pyle speakers are spec'd at
90 - 20 KHz (about the same as the SP3) and are easy to drive
as well.

I notice no difference in response between the speakers and my
headphones (typically Yamaha CM500 but occasionally smaller,
ear bud or "professional" Sony headphones) *HOWEVER* I have the
K3 RX EQ set to roll off (-16 dB) the 50 and 100 Hz bands with
a -6 dB roll off in the 200 Hz band for SSB/AM and with -16 dB
at 50 Hz and -3 dB at 200 Hz for CW.

There is no issue for me with the roll off if/when I listen to
AM or shortwave broadcast but I can certainly "flatten out" the
response by changing the RX EQ to flat or even add a bit of low
end boost if band conditions are quiet/no QRM.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2/5/2018 1:43 PM, James Wilson wrote:

Bill,

Personally, I like the SP-3 speaker. I have two of them and,
compared with my Koss headphones, they both sound like
the headphones. Great for the K3 on SSB or CW. Not Hi-Fi
for music but entirely adequate. PLUS, they look good
in the K-Line.

Jim - W4RKS



In the real world, does the SP-3 exhibit well rounded frequency
response? Or, is the response more directed for "communications use"?
How is it for listening to AM broadcast? How does it do with the famous
K3 hiss? How does it do with a less capable receiver (one without an EQ)?



I am considering some station simplification, hence the SP-3. Currently,
I am using the Behringer MS40 pair. Super sound, but quite large and do
have an internal amp (I have experienced no RF problems).



Bill W2BLC K-Line

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Re: [Elecraft] SP-3 frequency range question

[Wayne Burdick]

Hi Bill, 

The SP3 is relatively flat from 100-20,000 Hz, and is very sensitive (90 dB 
SPL), meaning no need for amplification. A K3 or K3S will drive one or two of 
them easily. The K3/K3S also have RX EQ to tailor the response to your 
operating position.

I'll let others comment subjectively on the sound.

73,
Wayne
N6KR


> On Feb 4, 2018, at 12:36 PM, Bill  wrote:
> 

> I am considering some station simplification, hence the SP-3. Currently, I am 
> using the Behringer MS40 pair. Super sound, but quite large and do have an 
> internal amp (I have experienced no RF problems).
> 
> Bill W2BLC K-Line



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Re: [Elecraft] SP-3 frequency range question

[tnnyswy--- via Elecraft]

>>> which I need for AM and SWL. I
>> also dabble in ESSB. <<< 
Bill, according to the Scripture of HAM Radio, AM, SWL, and even more so, ESSB, 
 is not Ham Radio. Please do not listen below 200Hz, and above 2400Hz. Should 
you persist, you'll get cavities, and eventually go deaf. This is in accordance 
to the GOSPEL of Jim K9YC. 
Milverton / W9MMS. 
 

On Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 7:40:49 AM CST, Jim Brown 
 wrote:  
 
 On 2/5/2018 10:13 AM, Alan wrote:
> On 02/05/2018 07:58 AM, Bill wrote:
>
>> I did receive a couple of direct replies indicating I might well be
>> disappointed in the low end department - which I need for AM and SWL. I
>> also dabble in ESSB.
>
> I'm not an expert in speaker design but I have dabbled a little. I 
> think that to get good bass response in a small enclosure you have to 
> give up efficiency - it takes a lot more power to drive the speaker.
>
> Basically it's a tradeoff between small size, good bass response and 
> good efficiency - pick any two.

This is a good description of the tradeoffs. BUT -- there is NO useful 
energy in human speech below about 200 Hz, and a cone doesn't have to be 
very big to reproduce that with reasonable efficiency. We're not 
reproducing music here. Riley Hollingsworth, our hero who cleaned up ham 
radio in his gig at the FCC before he retired a decade or so ago, said 
it quite well; "if you want to transmit hi-fi, buy a radio station."

73, Jim K9YC


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Re: [Elecraft] SP-3 frequency range question

[Jim Brown]

On 2/5/2018 10:13 AM, Alan wrote:

On 02/05/2018 07:58 AM, Bill wrote:


I did receive a couple of direct replies indicating I might well be
disappointed in the low end department - which I need for AM and SWL. I
also dabble in ESSB.


I'm not an expert in speaker design but I have dabbled a little. I 
think that to get good bass response in a small enclosure you have to 
give up efficiency - it takes a lot more power to drive the speaker.


Basically it's a tradeoff between small size, good bass response and 
good efficiency - pick any two.


This is a good description of the tradeoffs. BUT -- there is NO useful 
energy in human speech below about 200 Hz, and a cone doesn't have to be 
very big to reproduce that with reasonable efficiency. We're not 
reproducing music here. Riley Hollingsworth, our hero who cleaned up ham 
radio in his gig at the FCC before he retired a decade or so ago, said 
it quite well; "if you want to transmit hi-fi, buy a radio station."


73, Jim K9YC


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Re: [Elecraft] SP-3 frequency range question

[Alan]

On 02/05/2018 07:58 AM, Bill wrote:


I did receive a couple of direct replies indicating I might well be
disappointed in the low end department - which I need for AM and SWL. I
also dabble in ESSB.


I'm not an expert in speaker design but I have dabbled a little.  I 
think that to get good bass response in a small enclosure you have to 
give up efficiency - it takes a lot more power to drive the speaker.


Basically it's a tradeoff between small size, good bass response and 
good efficiency - pick any two.


Alan N1AL
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Re: [Elecraft] SP-3 frequency range question

[Bill]

I posted this message - and checked that it appeared. It did. But, it was 
skipped over on the reflector. Hmmm???


Well, between list failures and a lack of the "real world" experience
replies I was seeking, I have decided to continue using the Behringer
MS40 pair. Just wasn't meant to be.

I did receive a couple of direct replies indicating I might well be
disappointed in the low end department - which I need for AM and SWL. I
also dabble in ESSB.

Actually, when it comes to receiving - I personally think it is more
about the Receive EQ in the K3 than about the quality/specs of the
speaker. Similar to how a cheap mic can be made to sound like an RCA
ribbon mic. Of course, this is not true for a lesser rig - in which
case, speaker choice can be very important.

I was considering the SP3 due to its size and K3 style match. However,
as the new desk is still in the paper/pencil stage, I can accommodate
the Behringers.

Bill W2BLC K-Line


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Re: [Elecraft] SP-3 frequency range question

[David Bunte]

Bill -

I saw your earlier request. Don’t know if I saw more than one. I did not
respond then because I thought the first post said something about how
great the SP3’s sounded on music, but I could be remembering wrong. The
other reason I did not respond is because I assumed someone with an SP3, or
someone who recalled the earlier post would answer (that seems to be the
norm here).

Hope you get a more helpful response soon.

Dave - K9FN

On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 3:39 PM Bill  wrote:

> This is another repeat - the first two attempts did not appear. Makes me
> wonder if I am blocked for some reason???
>
>
> In the real world, does the SP-3 exhibit well rounded frequency
> response? Or, is the response more directed for "communications use"?
> How is it for listening to AM broadcast? How does it do with the famous
> K3 hiss? How does it do with a less capable receiver (one without an EQ)?
>
> I am considering some station simplification, hence the SP-3. Currently,
> I am using the Behringer MS40 pair. Super sound, but quite large and do
> have an internal amp (I have experienced no RF problems).
>
> Bill W2BLC K-Line
>
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