[EM] The Occupy Movement: A Ray of Hope -- inPolitics

[Dave Ketchum]

On Sun, Dec 11, 2011 at 11:14 AM, Dave Ketchum <da...@clarityconnect.com 
> wrote
per this subject - see at end below.

Leon Smith added reference to http://reformact.org/ - by a group that  
offers extensive references and thoughts - worth exploring.

On Dec 11, 2011, at 6:06 PM, James Gilmour wrote: the following about  
what Leon offered - worthy, but not about the entire current subject.

The trouble with this group, judging by their website, is that, like  
many other "electoral reformers" in the USA, they recognise
only part of the problem: "First Past the Post Voting is Obviously  
Flawed"  -  most definitely.
But they fail to see the bigger picture (representation of voters)  
and show almost no appreciation of where the real solution might
lie (some system of proportional representation).
Issues concerning "ballot access" and "recounts" are trivial in  
comparison with the distortion of representation of the voters  -
i.e. the relationship between votes cast and seats won.

Of course, there are some major challenges in improving the election  
of officials to single-office positions by single-winner
elections.  But the bigger picture concerns the "representative  
assemblies"  -  the city councils and boards, the state legislatures
and both Houses of the Federal Congress.  No improvement of the  
voting system used to elect these members from single-member
districts is going to deliver real improvement of the representation  
of the voters.

James Gilmour

-----Original Message-----
From: election-methods-boun...@lists.electorama.com
[mailto:election-methods-boun...@lists.electorama.com] On
Behalf Of Leon Smith
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 8:29 PM
To: electionscie...@googlegroups.com
Cc: politics_currentevents_gr...@yahoogroups.com;
nygr...@yahoogroups.com; rangevot...@yahoogroups.com; EM;
mike+dated+1324017722.00c...@zelea.com
Subject: Re: [EM] [CES #4194] Re: The Occupy Movement: A Ray
of Hope -- inPolitics


I suppose the existence of this group is worth noting:

http://reformact.org/

They were a little naive about election methods at first,
advocating Instant Runoff,  but they have been receptive and
are now open for debate,  though they seem to be tentatively
arguing for Condorcet. And they take a comprehensive look at
electoral reform,  not just method.

Best,
Leon

On Sun, Dec 11, 2011 at 11:14 AM, Dave Ketchum
<da...@clarityconnect.com> wrote:
I am delighted to hear of this valuable activity.  A couple notes:
     .  "local, state, federal and global levels" are
Open_voting_network topics. All except global are important
in the US
in 2012 as a year in which serious activity is possible -
within the
framework of current laws, but without depending on
instantly changing
the laws..
     .  "primary" is a word used here.  It is different
from the "primary
elections" used in the US - they are used by parties to
cope with the needs
of plurality voting.
     .  Among the possibilities would be such as
destructive competition
between Occupy-backing candidates in the Green and
Libertarian parties - if
they split the votes of Occupy backers and thus each lost.

On Dec 11, 2011, at 1:42 AM, Michael Allan wrote:

Dave Ketchum wrote:

Write-ins can be effective.  I hold up proof this year.  For

a supervisor race:

 111 Rep - Joe - on the ballot from winning primary, though not

           campaigning.

 346 Con - Darlene - running as Con though unable to run as Rep+Con.

 540 Write-in - Bob - who gets the votes with his campaign starting

                18 days before election day.


We're floating the idea within Occupy of a primary voting
network that
might help by giving independents a leg up.  It would
extend not only
across and beyond parties, but also across any number of voting
methods and service providers: (see also the discussion tab here)

https://wiki.occupy.net/wiki/User:Michael_Allan/RFC/ 
Open_voting_networ
k

It's not easy to summarize, but maybe easier from the voter's POV:

  We won't endorse any single provider (monopoly) of primary voting
  and consensus making services.  Instead we'll maintain an open
  voting network (counter-monopoly) in which: (1) no person is
  excluded from participating in the development of alternative
  technologies and methodologies of consensus making; (2)
no toolset,
  platform or practice is excluded; and (3) each person may freely
  choose a provider, toolset and practices based on personal needs
  and preferences without thereby becoming isolated from
participants
  who make different choices.

None of this is especially difficult (not technically), but
it's hard
to imagine how it could ever get started without Occupy.

--
Michael Allan

Toronto, +1 416-699-9528
http://zelea.com/

Dave Ketchum wrote: ...
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