Re: [EM] The structuring of power and the composition of norms by communicative assent

2009-01-19 Thread Michael Allan
Juho Laatu wrote: If private and public opinions differ, then which is the manipulated one? If they deviate it is hard to imagine that the private opinion would not be the sincere one. That's because you are thinking of individual opinion. Consider: * private opinion informed by

Re: [EM] The structuring of power and the composition of norms by communicative assent

2009-01-19 Thread Kristofer Munsterhjelm
Michael Allan wrote: Juho Laatu wrote: If private and public opinions differ, then which is the manipulated one? If they deviate it is hard to imagine that the private opinion would not be the sincere one. That's because you are thinking of individual opinion. Consider: * private

Re: [EM] Generalizing manipulability

2009-01-19 Thread Jonathan Lundell
On Jan 18, 2009, at 5:13 PM, Juho Laatu wrote: --- On Mon, 19/1/09, Jonathan Lundell jlund...@pobox.com wrote: - Why was the first set of definitions not good enough for Approval? (I read rank as referring to the sincere personal opinions, not to the ballot.) vi ranks, and vi is by

Re: [EM] Condorcet - let's move ahead

2009-01-19 Thread Markus Schulze
Dear Kristofer Munsterhjelm, you wrote (19 Jan 2009): So voters prefer MAM winners to Beatpath winners more often than vice versa. What method is the best in that respect? Copeland methods are the best methods in this respect. The fact, that the ranked pairs winner usually pairwise beats

Re: [EM] IRV and Brown vs. Smallwood

2009-01-19 Thread Terry Bouricius
FYI, FairVote Minnesota does not and never has had any legal connection to the national organization known as FairVote (though they obviously communicate and are collegial). The views of Tony Solgard are his, and not FairVote's. FairVote does not argue that Condorcet methods would violate the

Re: [EM] The structuring of power and the composition of norms by communicative assent

2009-01-19 Thread Michael Allan
Kristofer Munsterhjelm wrote: Could not these domains work together? To my knowledge, that's what happens now. People discuss politics and find out what they're going to vote. Any sort of improvement on the availability of discussion, as well as of information of representatives' actions

Re: [EM] IRV and Brown vs. Smallwood

2009-01-19 Thread Kathy Dopp
From: Markus Schulze markus.schu...@alumni.tu-berlin.de Subject: Re: [EM] IRV and Brown vs. Smallwood Tony Solgard was president of FairVote Minnesota when he wrote the quoted article in which he claims that Condorcet was unconstitutional in Minnesota. Also the report by the League of

Re: [EM] The structuring of power and the composition of norms by communicative assent

2009-01-19 Thread Juho Laatu
--- On Mon, 19/1/09, Michael Allan m...@zelea.com wrote: Juho Laatu wrote: If private and public opinions differ, then which is the manipulated one? If they deviate it is hard to imagine that the private opinion would not be the sincere one. That's because you are thinking

Re: [EM] Generalizing manipulability

2009-01-19 Thread Juho Laatu
--- On Mon, 19/1/09, Jonathan Lundell jlund...@pobox.com wrote: On Jan 18, 2009, at 5:13 PM, Juho Laatu wrote: --- On Mon, 19/1/09, Jonathan Lundell jlund...@pobox.com wrote: - Why was the first set of definitions not good enough for Approval? (I read rank as referring to the

Re: [EM] Generalizing manipulability

2009-01-19 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
At 01:38 AM 1/18/2009, Juho Laatu wrote: I don't quite see why ranking based methods (Range, Approval) would not follow the same principles/definitions as rating based methods. The sincere message of the voter was above that she only slightly prefers B over A but the strategic vote indicated

Re: [EM] Generalizing manipulability

2009-01-19 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
At 03:57 PM 1/18/2009, Kristofer Munsterhjelm wrote: Wouldn't it be stricter than this? Consider Range, for instance. One would guess that the best zero info strategy is to vote Approval style with the cutoff at some point (mean? not sure). Actually, that's a lousy strategy. The reason it's