[EM] Kristofer: Yes, maybe Condorcet could overcome its disadvantages.

2012-04-27 Thread Michael Ossipoff
...but wouldn't it be better not to have the disadvantags? As you suggested, if Condorcet were proposed municipally, maybe (as was the case with IRV in some municipalities) big outside money won't come in to emphasize rank-balloting methods complete novelty, unknown-ness, unfamiliarity and

[EM] Election layering effect (or why election-method reform is important)

2012-04-27 Thread Richard Fobes
Recently I realized that in our Declaration, and in our discussions, we have failed to explain and explore the amplification effect that occurs as a result of, for a lack of a better term at the moment, layering. Here is how I explained it in the proposal I referred to earlier: Winning an

Re: [EM] Election layering effect (or why election-method reform is important)

2012-04-27 Thread Ted Stern
On 27 Apr 2012 12:26:11 -0700, Richard Fobes wrote: Recently I realized that in our Declaration, and in our discussions, we have failed to explain and explore the amplification effect that occurs as a result of, for a lack of a better term at the moment, layering. Here is how I explained it

Re: [EM] Cubicle-society. Withdrawing Intermediate FBC-2.

2012-04-27 Thread Paul Kislanko
Mike Ossipoff wrote in part: But here's something that many people seem to miss: Even when it isn't shown that a count is fraudulent, the count is still non-legitimate if it isn't vefifiable. A political system's use of a non-verifiable machine-count is ridiculous. Maybe it could be

[EM] as to Favorite vs Compromise vs Worse.

2012-04-27 Thread Dave Ketchum
Whatever the election method, voters are concerned with three groups of candidates: . Favorite: Desire electing one of these. . Compromise: Not desired, but can help to avoid electing Worse. . Worse: Want to avoid these getting elected. Not covered here, seeing to better

[EM] Dave Ketchum: Handcounts

2012-04-27 Thread Michael Ossipoff
Dave: You said: And that gets to why I think hand counting is no longer useful as verification - what is there to hand count when there are no paper ballots except those printed by the machines that we're auditing? [endquote] Handcounting was used even before there were voting machines! I