Re: [EM] Fwd: Is it professional?

2013-06-24 Thread James Gilmour
limits are imposed because of the limitations of the out-of-date equipment used to tally paper ballots. James Gilmour Edinburgh, Scotland --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 130624-1, 24/06/2013 Tested on: 24/06/2013 17:17:08 avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2013 AVAST

Re: [EM] proportional constraints - help needed

2013-02-06 Thread James Gilmour
: James Gilmour [mailto:jgilm...@globalnet.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 11:49 PM To: 'Jonathan Lundell'; 'Peter Zbornik' Cc: 'election-meth...@electorama.com' Subject: RE: [EM] proportional constraints - help needed Jonathan Lundell Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 6:40 PM

Re: [EM] proportional constraints - help needed

2013-02-05 Thread James Gilmour
://www.crosenstiel.webspace.virginmedia.com/stv/orderstv.htm and http://www.crosenstiel.webspace.virginmedia.com/stv/ordstvdt.htm The second one includes a constraint for candidate's sex. James Gilmour --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 130205-0, 05/02/2013 Tested on: 05

Re: [EM] Majority-Judgement using adjectives versus alphabeticalscales versus numerical ranges.

2012-12-06 Thread James Gilmour
government councils. Details of the numbers of preferences marked, by ward and by ballot box (= Polling Station = part of a Polling District), are available on the 32 websites of the councils. The full ballot data (preference profiles) for all 353 wards will be available early in 2013. James

Re: [EM] My summary of the recent discussion

2012-06-04 Thread James Gilmour
to be properly representative of those who vote. Both of these defects has greater effect if the electorates are not so equal or if the turnouts vary with party support (as they certainly do in the UK). So even when there are only two parties, FPTP is very far from fine. James Gilmour - No virus

Re: [EM] My summary of the recent discussion

2012-06-04 Thread James Gilmour
what is the scenario with two parties where FPTP is so flawed? Only if you think that third parties and independents should nor run, and there should be only two parties, then Plurality is fine. On 4.6.2012, at 13.49, James Gilmour wrote: These contributions to this discussion

Re: [EM] STV vs Party-list PR, could context matter?

2012-02-19 Thread James Gilmour
(of various kinds) in some sub-UK elections. The two things are not at all related and certainly had nothing to do with preparing any imaged climate for the AV referendum. James Gilmour Election-Methods mailing list - see http://electorama.com/em for list info

Re: [EM] STV vs Party-list PR, could context matter?

2012-02-17 Thread James Gilmour
of our STV-PR package - that's practical politics. But that reform has transformed our local government - no more one-party states. James Gilmour -Original Message- From: election-methods-boun...@lists.electorama.com [mailto:election-methods-boun...@lists.electorama.com

Re: [EM] STV vs Party-list PR, could context matter?

2012-02-17 Thread James Gilmour
the proportionality - in a way that Droop does not. Why anyone would want to restrict the voting system to 3-seat districts instead of adopting a flexible approach to district magnitude to fit local geography and recognised communities.. James Gilmour -Original Message- From: election

Re: [EM] STV vs Party-list PR, could context matter?

2012-02-17 Thread James Gilmour
David L Wetzell Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 7:31 PM James Gilmour: But why would you want all these differences and complications? dlw: Because context matters. I have great difficulty in believing that there are such context specific differences. I could believe

Re: [EM] Utilitarianism and Perfectionism.

2012-02-09 Thread James Gilmour
Juho LaatuSent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 8:29 PM I think I agree when I say that the first decision (in the USA) is whether to make the current two-party system work better or whether to aim at a multi-party system. Juho Don't you think you might just be starting in the wrong

Re: [EM] Utilitarianism and Perfectionism.

2012-02-09 Thread James Gilmour
Juho LaatuSent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 8:07 PM As I earlier wrote, I think the US has many options on how to go forward with the reform. The presidential election is maybe the most interesting one. Juho This may be the most interesting election, but as it is almost certainly the

Re: [EM] [CES #4194] Re: The Occupy Movement: A Ray of Hope -- inPolitics

2011-12-11 Thread James Gilmour
. No improvement of the voting system used to elect these members from single-member districts is going to deliver real improvement of the representation of the voters. James Gilmour -Original Message- From: election-methods-boun...@lists.electorama.com [mailto:election-methods-boun

Re: [EM] STV and single constraints, like gender quotas

2011-11-27 Thread James Gilmour
/ordstvdt.htm James Gilmour -Original Message- From: election-methods-boun...@lists.electorama.com [mailto:election-methods-boun...@lists.electorama.com] On Behalf Of Peter Zbornik Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 10:55 AM To: Election Methods; election-methods Subject: [EM] STV and single

Re: [EM] Proportional, Accountable, Local (PAL) representation: isn't this a big deal?

2011-10-29 Thread James Gilmour
-methods-boun...@lists.electorama.com] On Behalf Of Juho Laatu Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2011 5:11 PM To: EM Subject: Re: [EM] Proportional, Accountable,Local (PAL) representation: isn't this a big deal? On 29.10.2011, at 16.58, James Gilmour wrote: Kristofer Munsterhjelm Sent: Saturday

Re: [EM] A design flaw in the electoral system

2011-10-03 Thread James Gilmour
elections per se. That's why I'm puzzled. James Gilmour Election-Methods mailing list - see http://electorama.com/em for list info

Re: [EM] Election-Methods Digest, Vol 87, Issue 54

2011-09-24 Thread James Gilmour
to elect the Condorcet winner may have added some theoretical fuel to the flames in the campaign to ditch IRV, but the real impetus came from those who wanted to go back to FPTP with top-two run-off when the front-runner didn't achieve the artificial threshold. James Gilmour Election-Methods

Re: [EM] Election-Methods Digest, Vol 87, Issue 54

2011-09-24 Thread James Gilmour
-insoluble problems of obtaining (and measuring) the best representation in single-winner elections had been directed to that more practical objective. James Gilmour Election-Methods mailing list - see http://electorama.com/em for list info

Re: [EM] Election-Methods Digest, Vol 87, Issue 54

2011-09-24 Thread James Gilmour
Kristofer MunsterhjelmSent: Saturday, September 24, 2011 10:22 PM James Gilmour wrote: You are right, so far as I am aware - there have never been any Condorcet public elections anywhere in the world. That in itself should tell us something as the Condorcet voting system has

Re: [EM] Weak Condorcet winners

2011-09-23 Thread James Gilmour
ineffective in the discharge of the office to which s/he was elected. James Gilmour Election-Methods mailing list - see http://electorama.com/em for list info

Re: [EM] Weak Condorcet winners

2011-09-23 Thread James Gilmour
it is sometimes a requirement to elect against the majority opinion. This sounds more like (benign) dictatorship than democratic representation. James Gilmour Election-Methods mailing list - see http://electorama.com/em for list info

Re: [EM] Election-Methods Digest, Vol 87, Issue 54

2011-09-23 Thread James Gilmour
, such a result would be less acceptable to the electors than the plurality result, despite all the obvious defects in the plurality voting. That's just how it is - and if you want to achieve real, practical reform, you have to understand that. James Gilmour -Original Message- From: election

Re: [EM] [CES #3650] FairVote folks are not the friendliest bunch

2011-09-22 Thread James Gilmour
in IRV is that it can, sometimes, fail to elect the Condorcet winner. But IRV avoids the political problem of the weak Condorcet winner. I suspect that's why IRV has been accepted for many public and semi-public elections despite the Condorcet flaw. James Gilmour Election-Methods mailing list

Re: [EM] [CES #3650] FairVote folks are not the friendliest bunch

2011-09-22 Thread James Gilmour
in the UK would object to that? I cannot think of ANYONE in the UK who would support a proposal for any form of two-round voting for public elections. James Gilmour Election-Methods mailing list - see http://electorama.com/em for list info

Re: [EM] [CES #3650] FairVote folks are not the friendliest bunch

2011-09-22 Thread James Gilmour
robert bristow-johnson Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 7:00 PM On 9/22/11 12:40 PM, James Gilmour wrote: But suppose the votes had been (again ignoring irrelevant preferences): 48 AC 47 BC 5 C C is still the Condorcet winner - no question about that. But I doubt

Re: [EM] Weak Condorcet winners [was: FairVote are not the friendliest]

2011-09-22 Thread James Gilmour
cycles (and there still isn't). I suspect the specific issue of the weak Condorcet winner may not then have been too significant because no-one suggested using a Condorcet system. But that would certainly be an issue now, given the nature of our current politics. James Gilmour Election

Re: [EM] [CES #3650] FairVote folks are not the friendliest bunch

2011-09-22 Thread James Gilmour
Toby PereiraSent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 8:11 PM From: James Gilmour jgilm...@globalnet.co.uk But suppose the votes had been (again ignoring irrelevant preferences): 48 AC 47 BC 5 C C is still the Condorcet winner - no question about that. But I doubt whether

Re: [EM] Weak Condorcet winners [was: FairVote are not thefriendliest]

2011-09-22 Thread James Gilmour
what is wrong with such two-round voting systems. I would say runoff elections are the standard way of conducting single member elections. Even though I have no data for this claim, Yes, I should like to see some hard data to back up that statement. James Gilmour Election-Methods

Re: [EM] Preferential Party List Method Proposal

2011-08-14 Thread James Gilmour
opinion polls; for the USA and Canada it is based on my reading of local media and blogs. James Gilmour Election-Methods mailing list - see http://electorama.com/em for list info

Re: [EM] Preferential Party List Method Proposal

2011-08-13 Thread James Gilmour
calculations. James Gilmour Election-Methods mailing list - see http://electorama.com/em for list info

Re: [EM] Record activity on the EM list?

2011-08-06 Thread James Gilmour
Juho Laatu Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 5:12 PM On 4.8.2011, at 14.21, James Gilmour wrote: There is only one real issue in elections: representation of the voters. If in a single winner partisan election the voters vote 51% for A and 49% for B, we have a major problem

Re: [EM] Record activity on the EM list?

2011-08-06 Thread James Gilmour
have wider support than in the typical 51+% governments of a two-party system. The larger government would have to make compromises that are at least acceptable to all parties in the government. Juho On 6.8.2011, at 17.39, James Gilmour wrote: Juho Laatu Sent: Thursday, August 04

Re: [EM] Record activity on the EM list?

2011-08-04 Thread James Gilmour
in single-winner methods. Juho On 3.8.2011, at 19.35, James Gilmour wrote: Juho Laatu Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 6:04 AM Multi-winner methods are, if possible, even more complicated than single-winner methods. I disagree. It is much easier to obtain a satisfactory

Re: [EM] Record activity on the EM list?

2011-08-03 Thread James Gilmour
of the problems disappear. James Gilmour Election-Methods mailing list - see http://electorama.com/em for list info

Re: [EM] Challenge: two-party methods

2011-07-09 Thread James Gilmour
Juho Laatu Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 10:35 AM After some recent discussions and thoughts around two-party systems I thought it would be interesting to discuss two-party systems also in a more positive spirit. The assumption is thus that we want the system to be two-party oriented.

Re: [EM] Challenge: two-party methods

2011-07-09 Thread James Gilmour
. The concepts are quite different. James Juho Laatu Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 2:53 PM On 9.7.2011, at 16.14, James Gilmour wrote: Juho Laatu Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 10:35 AM After some recent discussions and thoughts around two-party systems I thought it would

Re: [EM] What's wrong with the party list system?

2011-07-05 Thread James Gilmour
Kathy Dopp Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 2:30 AM On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 7:19 PM, James Gilmour Kathy, your comments illustrate the fundamental problems with all party list voting systems: 1. you must have registered political parties; As someone else noted in this thread already

Re: [EM] What's wrong with the party list system?

2011-07-04 Thread James Gilmour
the way and apply your chosen PR system to all candidates across all parties? That would give the voters real choice and would also avoid completely the problem of entrenching the political power of the parties' machines. James Gilmour Election-Methods mailing list - see http

Re: [EM] What's wrong with the party list system?

2011-07-04 Thread James Gilmour
Juho Laatu Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 4:30 PM (Of course the idea of having proportionally ordered candidate lists in a closer list election would make voting in the actual election even simpler. But then one would need to have a primary to find the ordering for each party.) But that

Re: [EM] What's wrong with the party list system?

2011-07-04 Thread James Gilmour
Jameson Quinn Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 5:03 PM As I said in my last message, asset-like systems can let you have your cake and eat it, if you trust your favorite candidate to agree with you in ranking other candidates. This is fundamentally different from trusting your party, because

Re: [EM] What's wrong with the party list system?

2011-07-04 Thread James Gilmour
Kathy Dopp Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 10:40 PM James, As someone on this list already pointed out, such a system as you suggest does *nothing* to ensure proportionality *within* the party list because the list of candidates could all have been chosen by either the leaders or the

Re: [EM] What's wrong with the party list system?

2011-07-03 Thread James Gilmour
offer themselves for election) and not just PR of the registered political parties. There are historical reasons why different countries have favoured one approach over the other, reflecting, and reflected in, differences in political culture. James Gilmour Scotland (where we use 5 different voting

Re: [EM] C//A

2011-06-14 Thread James Gilmour
You have missed the point completely, ignoring issues of illiteracy (25% of adults) and disability and discrimination. It is simpler to rank candidates 1, 2, 3, 4, etc or to rate them on a 1 to 7 scale with the options in seven clear columns than to engage in any combinatorial addition. JG

Re: [EM] C//A

2011-06-12 Thread James Gilmour
in designing for public elections. James Gilmour Election-Methods mailing list - see http://electorama.com/em for list info

Re: [EM] Theoretical Issues In Districting

2011-06-11 Thread James Gilmour
to determine the appropriate numbers of councillors for the councils that serve the 32 very different local government areas within Scotland: http://www.lgbc-scotland.gov.uk/reviews/councillor_numbers_2011/ James Gilmour -Original Message- From: election-methods-boun

Re: [EM] Usability studies of ranking/rating/approval methods

2011-06-02 Thread James Gilmour
-Commission-Ballot-Paper-Testing-Summary-Final-Report.pdfsearch_referer= James Gilmour -Original Message- From: election-methods-boun...@lists.electorama.com [mailto:election-methods-boun...@lists.electorama.com] On Behalf Of Steve Wolfman Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2011 8:53 PM

Re: [EM] Statement by this list (was Remember toby Nixon)

2011-05-28 Thread James Gilmour
On 27.5.2011, at 10.01, Jameson Quinn wrote: 1. We draw up a statement which details the serious problems with plurality in the US context, and states that there are solutions. Juho Laatu Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 9:43 PM Good approach. I have one comment on the target statement.

Re: [EM] Why is wikipedia so biased pro-IRV?

2011-02-28 Thread James Gilmour
Kristofer Munsterhjelm Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 1:18 PM James Gilmour wrote: Kristofer Munsterhjelm Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 2:29 PM I'm not a UK politics expert, but it seems this is a minimal concession, of the sort one would see in negotiation. AV/IRV doesn't really

Re: [EM] Why is wikipedia so biased pro-IRV?

2011-02-26 Thread James Gilmour
very different kinds of elected member, brings a raft of new problems which would be high price to pay for party PR. We have MMP in the Scottish Parliament (we call it AMS), but we want to change to STV-PR. James Gilmour - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version

Re: [EM] electing a variable number of seats

2011-02-17 Thread James Gilmour
a polarizing candidate, it is surely not for anyone to have the power to over-ride that democratic decision. Or have I missed something? James Gilmour -Original Message- From: election-methods-boun...@lists.electorama.com [mailto:election-methods-boun...@lists.electorama.com] On Behalf

Re: [EM] Thoughts on a nomination simulation

2010-06-18 Thread James Gilmour
Kristofer Munsterhjelm Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 9:58 AM In a parliamentary system, I imagine it would be possible for the party leadership to decide (in the manner that they decide a list under party list PR). How do parties in actual single-winner district parliamentary countries

Re: [EM] the intrinsic value of the metric of *strength* of personalpreference (was: Re: Compatibility)

2010-05-05 Thread James Gilmour
, the total number of candidates would likely be less that the present total of 31 because none of the four main parties would nominate 5 candidates. We already use STV-PR for public elections within the UK and it works very well. STV-PR should adopted for the UK Parliament as well. James Gilmour

Re: [EM] Proportional election method needed for the Czech Greenparty - Council elections

2010-05-03 Thread James Gilmour
to adopt closed-list party-list PR voting systems for any elections (public or private), but such ordered-list voting systems have been imposed on us by UK governments and so the parties must produce the ordered lists if they wish to participate in these elections. James Gilmour No virus found

[EM] FW: Tasmanian Greens get 21% of first choice votes, 5 seats of 25

2010-03-25 Thread James Gilmour
Elections in two Australian states have just been held. In Tasmania, the lower House of Assembly elected by PR-STV has 25 seats in 5 x 5-seat constituencies, so gives good proportional representation. See http://www.abc.net.au/elections/tas/2010/ and http://www.electoral.tas.gov.au In South

Re: [EM] Condorcet How?

2010-03-24 Thread James Gilmour
robert bristow-johnson wrote: It seems that what Fairvote want is PR-STV. The hope is presumably, that if they can get voters used to ranked ballots and eliminations with IRV, they can then argue that moving onto PR-STV is just changing to the multiseat version of IRV. Surely a major

Re: [EM] Proportional Representation Systems I'd Support

2010-03-24 Thread James Gilmour
Raph Frank Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 11:01 PM In relation to the Swiss Federal Parliament election system It is like a cumulative voting version of MMP, but there is no mechanism for a candidate to win without being a member of a party. No, it's not at all like MMP. In MMP half or

Re: [EM] Proportional Representation Systems I'd Support

2010-03-24 Thread James Gilmour
Raph Frank Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 5:31 PM Sorry, I wasn't clear at all. No, it certainly wasn't clear. I was thinking of the decoy list issue with MMP. I don't think this is at all a helpful way of looking at the Swiss CN voting system. What I meant was that it is like MMP in

Re: [EM] Proportional Representation Systems I'd Support

2010-03-22 Thread James Gilmour
or the Sainte-Laguë formula to the votes, summed over the apparentenement partner-parties as necessary. James Gilmour No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.791 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2762 - Release Date: 03/21/10 19:33:00 Election-Methods

Re: [EM] Voting systems theory and proportional representation vssimple representation.

2010-03-13 Thread James Gilmour
political system. In some political cultures voters already think the political parties are too dominant. James Gilmour No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2743 - Release Date: 03/13/10 07:33:00 Election-Methods

Re: [EM] Smith, FPP fails Minimal Defense and Clone-Winner

2010-03-10 Thread James Gilmour
elections are affected by successful incumbent gerrymandering and by the effect of primary elections. I suspect that if these two distorting effects were removed, you would see a very different picture, much like that from FPTP elections in Canada or in the UK. James Gilmour No virus found

Re: [EM] IRV ballot pile count (proof of closed form)

2010-02-05 Thread James Gilmour
to determine the winner (or winners in an STV-PR election). That what has been done for public elections in Ireland and the UK for many decades and it works well without problems. But I do appreciate that is far too simple and practical a solution and it suffers from NMH. James Gilmour No virus

Re: [EM] Professorial Office Picking

2010-01-25 Thread James Gilmour
not have any details and I have never been involved in timetabling so I don't know how well these approaches work in practice.) James Gilmour No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.730 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2644 - Release Date: 01/25/10 07:36:00

Re: [EM] IRV vs Plurality (back to the pile count controversy)

2010-01-22 Thread James Gilmour
robert bristow-johnson Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 12:25 AM On Jan 21, 2010, at 7:05 PM, James Gilmour wrote: N Unique Preference Profiles 2 4 3 15 ... then your calculation is mistaken. the fact that you ostensibly need 4 piles when there are only two candidates should

Re: [EM] IRV vs Plurality (back to the pile count controversy)

2010-01-22 Thread James Gilmour
unoffVotingFlaws.pdf Because it's hard to write a summation, fraction formula, etc. here I'll let you look it up. It's on page 6 of the doc linked above. Cheers, Kathy From: James Gilmour jgilm...@globalnet.co.uk I do not intend to comment on your formula, but I calculate the numbers

Re: [EM] IRV vs Plurality (back to the pile count controversy)

2010-01-22 Thread James Gilmour
Kathy Dopp Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 1:42 PM OK James. As I said before, I agree with you that you were giving the total number of profiles *if* voters were allowed to rank all candidates, which they were not allowed to do in Minneapolis or elsewhere in the US public elections if I

Re: [EM] IRV vs Plurality (back to the pile count controversy)

2010-01-22 Thread James Gilmour
Kathy Dopp Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 4:54 PM James, you are using a straw man argument with me, setting up a false premise that I said something I never did, Kathy, I was not setting up any straw man argument with you or anyone else. I simply stated what a preference profile is and

Re: [EM] IRV vs Plurality (back to the pile count controversy)

2010-01-22 Thread James Gilmour
Abd ul-Rahman Lomax Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 5:53 PM At 03:57 AM 1/22/2010, James Gilmour wrote: This second set of rules are those that prescribe the transfer of votes to the bitter end, i.e. even after the winners have all been determined. Under this rule a ballot marked A would

Re: [EM] IRV vs Plurality (back to the pile count controversy)

2010-01-21 Thread James Gilmour
of candidates. I understand the full preference profiles, probably at precinct level, will be published on the City website, but they are not there yet. James Gilmour No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.730 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2636 - Release

Re: [EM] IRV vs Plurality (back to the pile count controversy)

2010-01-21 Thread James Gilmour
are: A B A B B A Anything that does not conform to this is an incorrect use of the term preference profile. James Gilmour No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.730 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2636 - Release Date: 01/21/10 07:34:00

Re: [EM] Anyone got a good analysis on limitations of approval andrange voting?

2009-11-29 Thread James Gilmour
in any other way. James Gilmour No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.698 / Virus Database: 270.14.86/2533 - Release Date: 11/28/09 19:34:00 Election-Methods mailing list - see http://electorama.com/em for list info

Re: [EM] IRV is best method meeting 'later no harm'?

2009-11-26 Thread James Gilmour
for these elections. James Gilmour No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.698 / Virus Database: 270.14.81/2524 - Release Date: 11/24/09 19:37:00 Election-Methods mailing list - see http://electorama.com/em for list info

Re: [EM] STV - the transferrable part is OK (fair), the sequential round elimination is not

2009-11-03 Thread James Gilmour
then I think it'd be better just to have the filter on the decision process itself. Why in any country that would merit the description democracy would you want to impose a two-party system when the votes of the voters showed that was not what they wanted? James Gilmour No virus found

Re: [EM] STV - the transferrable part is OK (fair), the sequential round elimination is not

2009-11-03 Thread James Gilmour
Kristofer Munsterhjelm Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 4:34 PM James Gilmour wrote: Why in any country that would merit the description democracy would you want to impose a two-party system when the votes of the voters showed that was not what they wanted? That is my question, too

Re: [EM] STV - the transferrable part is OK (fair), the sequential round elimination is not

2009-11-02 Thread James Gilmour
the elected members and their parties, and between the elected assembly and the executive, especially where the executive is based within the assembly (as in parliamentary system). These political effects (beyond simple PR) are important considerations, especially from the voters' perspective. James

Re: [EM] (no subject) STV transfer rules

2009-11-02 Thread James Gilmour
. Then there is no discrimination of the kind you describe between these voters. James Gilmour No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.698 / Virus Database: 270.14.42/2473 - Release Date: 10/31/09 21:14:00 Election-Methods mailing list - see http

Re: [EM] STV - the transferrable part is OK (fair), the sequential round elimination is not

2009-11-02 Thread James Gilmour
branch of policy: economic, social, educational, health, etc, etc. James Gilmour No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.698 / Virus Database: 270.14.44/2475 - Release Date: 11/01/09 19:39:00 Election-Methods mailing list - see http

Re: [EM] (no subject)

2009-11-01 Thread James Gilmour
is not as unrepresentative as most assemblies elected in this way around the world (e.g. UK, Canada). That's probably why Federal electoral reform is not higher up the public agenda in the USA. James Gilmour No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.698 / Virus Database

Re: [EM] STV - the transferrable part is OK (fair), the sequential round elimination is not

2009-10-31 Thread James Gilmour
- currently a majority of 66 seats (out of 646) with only 35% of the votes. But that's party politics! James Gilmour No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.698 / Virus Database: 270.14.39/2469 - Release Date: 10/30/09 07:52:00 Election-Methods

Re: [EM] STV - the transferrable part is OK (fair), the sequential round elimination is not

2009-10-30 Thread James Gilmour
, better vision of politics and the police system, you will want to empower the voters, and that's what STV-PR could do. James Gilmour No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.698 / Virus Database: 270.14.39/2469 - Release Date: 10/30/09 07:52:00

Re: [EM] Holding byelections with PR-STV

2009-09-15 Thread James Gilmour
On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 4:19 PM, James Gilmour wrote: The 'count back' procedure with STV-PR provides an alternative approach to the principle of preserving the proportionality determined at the previous main election. Then the voters would get the proportionality they would have got

Re: [EM] Holding byelections with PR-STV

2009-09-14 Thread James Gilmour
to filling casual vacancies has delighted the SNP but sent shockwaves through the Labour Party. James Gilmour No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.94/2367 - Release Date: 09/14/09 05:51:00 Election-Methods mailing list

Re: [EM] Election-Methods Digest, Vol 62, Issue 10 - Explaining PR-STV

2009-08-31 Thread James Gilmour
:17 AM James Gilmour wrote: It is extremely important to refer to STV as the SINGLE Transferable Vote, because each voter must have only one vote to ensure PR. This distinguishes STV from all multiple vote systems, like Multi-Member-FPTP or the Cumulative Vote. It is also important

Re: [EM] Redistricting, now with racial demographics

2009-07-18 Thread James Gilmour
in an attempt to overcome the deficiencies of a voting system designed for a completely different purpose? James Gilmour Brian Olson Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 2:39 PM As this isn't something I really want it's going to be hard to get motivated to work it out. That said I think the way to go

Re: [EM] Forced strictly-dishonest strategy is common inSchulze-beatpaths voting

2009-06-14 Thread James Gilmour
. Incidentally, we call this tactical voting, when the voter votes insincerely in response to the local political situation. We use strategic voting for situations where they vote insincerely in response to some feature of the voting system itself. James Gilmour No virus found in this outgoing message

Re: [EM] simple definition of Schulze method?

2009-06-04 Thread James Gilmour
2009/6/4 James Gilmour jgilm...@globalnet.co.uk Markus, UK electors have no hope of understanding that question at all after any campaign, never mind not instantly. And of those who would vote, large numbers would go to vote with very little prior information. Just two weeks before

Re: [EM] Good news - BC voters reject STV

2009-05-15 Thread James Gilmour
. Or maybe they had a political agenda for opposing reform and just wanted to hide behind their misrepresentations of STV. James Gilmour No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.329 / Virus Database: 270.12.30/2115 - Release Date: 05/14/09 17:54:00

Re: [EM] British Colombia considering change to STV

2009-05-10 Thread James Gilmour
of the voting system is to ensure that the various elected assemblies are properly representative of those who voted. On that, FPTP signally fails to deliver. And of course, in partisan elections, FPTP also makes the elected members much more accountable to their parties than to the local voters. James

Re: [EM] British Colombia considering change to STV

2009-05-09 Thread James Gilmour
accountable to their parties than to the local voters. James Gilmour No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.325 / Virus Database: 270.12.22/2105 - Release Date: 05/08/09 11:43:00 Election-Methods mailing list - see http://electorama.com/em

Re: [EM] British Colombia considering change to STV

2009-05-03 Thread James Gilmour
are not. Lumping all the multi-member voting system together as though there were all just different flavours of ice-cream is a flawed approach and it is unhelpful in the debate about how best to go forward in different political cultures. James Gilmour No virus found in this outgoing message

Re: [EM] British Colombia considering change to STV

2009-05-02 Thread James Gilmour
Juho Laatu Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 11:33 PM In Ireland, the constitution requires at least 3 per constituency and over time the average number of seats per constituency is being reduced. It is currently illegal (by statutory law) for constituencies to have more than 5 seats.

Re: [EM] PR-STV with approval based elimination

2009-05-01 Thread James Gilmour
against the election of their first choice. And of course, STV ensures that that cannot happen. James Gilmour No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.12/2090 - Release Date: 05/01/09 06:17:00 Election-Methods mailing

Re: [EM] IRV proponents figure out how to make IRV precinct-summable

2009-03-18 Thread James Gilmour
under full scrutiny. Only then were the completed numerical files passed to the relevant counting program. James Gilmour No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.18/2008 - Release Date: 03/17/09 16:25:00 Election

Re: [EM] IRV proponents figure out how to make IRV precinct-summable

2009-03-18 Thread James Gilmour
paper or an image of a ballot paper. You need a Court Order for authority to look at both the face and reverse of the ballot papers, and that will be granted only in cases where there is good evidence for fraud to be suspected. James Gilmour No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG

Re: [EM] IRV proponents figure out how to make IRV precinct-summable

2009-03-18 Thread James Gilmour
Raph Frank Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 5:54 PM 2009/3/18 James Gilmour jgilm...@globalnet.co.uk: I'm afraid you have misunderstood (or maybe I didn't explain it clearly). It is not a software issue - it is a compliance issue. No matter what software you use to read the images

Re: [EM] language/framing quibble

2009-03-05 Thread James Gilmour
it affects them personally and very directly. James Gilmour No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.8/1984 - Release Date: 03/04/09 19:17:00 Election-Methods mailing list - see http://electorama.com/em for list info

Re: [EM] STV and weighted positional methods

2009-02-01 Thread James Gilmour
will obtain one seat, or more in due proportion to their votes. James On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 11:24 AM, James Gilmour jgilm...@globalnet.co.uk wrote: Kathy Dopp Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 6:03 PM Are you opposed to any kind of PR system? Only if you believe that all PR

Re: [EM] STV and weighted positional methods

2009-02-01 Thread James Gilmour
Kathy Dopp Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 7:33 PM Obviously I did not express myself clearly enough for you. When a minority group lives concentrated in particular geographic districts then single-member districts give them good representation. In fact, the BEST method of ensuring fair

Re: [EM] STV and weighted positional methods

2009-02-01 Thread James Gilmour
On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 1:43 PM, James Gilmour wrote: In fact, the BEST method of ensuring fair representation for ALL minorities, including those concentrated in particular localities, is to elect all the members at large. If the voting support for any particular minority is large

Re: [EM] STV and weighted positional methods

2009-01-28 Thread James Gilmour
, London, England.] James Gilmour No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.14/1920 - Release Date: 27/01/2009 18:15 Election-Methods mailing list - see http://electorama.com/em for list info

Re: [EM] Why the concept of sincere votes in Range is flawed.

2009-01-27 Thread James Gilmour
I had written: I do not even think about putting all the remaining options into any order of preference, much less attempt it. Juho Laatu Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 7:24 PM Same with me. It is however probably not a big problem for you to pick some other product if your favourite

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