Re: [Elementary-dev-community] The future of appcenter
Yes I have to agree with Sergey and Mario. Lets take a deep breath. I know everyone is excited about AppCenter. It's going to be awesome! But we do still have a release to make. So lets gather all our ideas about what we think the AppCenter experience should be and we'll have a meeting right after Luna release for AppCenter planning. Best Regards, Daniel Foré El mar 26, 2013, a las 8:44 a.m., "Sergey \"Shnatsel\" Davidoff" escribió: > I have to point out that this is not the appropriate time to hold such > discussion, as many interested parties are (and should be) preoccupied by > Luna-specific work items. It's better to hold it during the planning period > after Luna release, because no action will be taken until then and the > circumstances will change by that time, invalidating any conclusions made now. > > -- > Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff > OS architect @ elementary > -- > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community > Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] The future of appcenter
I have to point out that this is not the appropriate time to hold such discussion, as many interested parties are (and should be) preoccupied by Luna-specific work items. It's better to hold it during the planning period after Luna release, because no action will be taken until then and the circumstances will change by that time, invalidating any conclusions made now. -- Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] The future of appcenter
Hi guys, I am not 100 % favorable to a fully online AppCenter and let me explain why. Populating an online database with all the infos of all the applications in the repositories would be an enormous waste of time and it should be updated each time a new thing is added to any repo. Moreover having everything online would make AppCenter slower while getting package's infos. Payment apps should be the only apps of which details should be online because of we can't have them in the repos. What I want online are the following features: 1) Screenshots: we need to abandon debian.screenshot.net platform in order to have screenshots taken in elementary OS. 2) Ratings & Reviews: Ubuntu servers seems to have read only permissions but, even if I am sure that investigating a bit we can obtain write permissions too, it's better to implement our own R&R platform. That's because we want to have a "full elementary experience" i.e. some elementary applications could look bad with Ubuntu's theme and we don't want people complaining for the bad aspect and giving us bad feedbacks. 3) Banners and/or home page: about this point I am not sure. Having banners download by AppCenter would be quite easy but maybe a whole home page could be a better idea. Before we discuss what technology to use we have to discuss how we want to structure the platform itself. Maybe having a developer meeting as we used to do would be a good solution to define all these points. Best regards, Mario Il mar, mar 26, 2013 at 3:17 ,Goncalo Margalho ha scritto: I'm very calm, don't worry, what I would like is to discuss that question "What do you guys want from AppCenter?" I see and app center like the apple AppStore or the google Play. what about the others? Yes, having code to talk about it's good, when you have 200 developers you ask 10 to create something and then compare. but at the moment there are just few developers, so let's define, plan, discuss and when we know what we want to achieve let's try to create it. On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 1:48 PM, Raphael Isemann wrote: @Goncalo Margalho, calm down. There is no decision made at the moment or anything like that. I also don't think that Strobl wanted to nuke your part of the discussion with a "i'll make some proof-of-concept"-code. If we have code to talk about, we just have a better foundation for a discussion, don't mind him. Before you go crazy here with that stuff, you should first answer that: What do you guys want from AppCenter? A user opens it and then he sees the newest/hottest/whatever apps with some infos (my guess)? Define what exactly is your target when proposing a radical change to a project (So far no one has answered shnatsel's question about the problem you see in the current AppCenter). Someone want a webpage instead of AppCenter (if i read that correctly)? Why? You should first answer that before going into technical details. 2013/3/26 Chris Timberlake The first decision needs to be "What is AppCenter?" Is it going to be an App Store or is it going to be just an App Center as it is now? That decision changes the course of the project forever. An AppStore is a huge undertaking that should be planned now. On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 5:51 AM, Joshua Strobl wrote: As I said, these decisions need to be a group consensus. We're not going to be the next Canonical. On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 5:49 AM, Goncalo Margalho wrote: If you do everything on your own deciding everything, there's no need to follow that. Saying that. Good luck with the AppCenter ;) On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Joshua Strobl wrote: There is a limiting factor on what we can implement from third parties. For instance, with Ubuntu Reviews API, we (along with everyone else) has read-only access, therefore we are not able to apply our own ratings and reviews (obviously a write process). This is already going to be covered in the API, I'll be pushing out code by the end of the week (hopefully) that will handle a portion of this. The general idea is to either completely pull all the reviews / ratings from Ubuntu, pretty much regarding every application (although I'd prefer we only limit to applications that are actually popular) and store them in our own database. This will ensure that any breaking changes that occur in Ubuntu's Reviews API do not affect AppCenter, since the reviews are stored with us anyways. Another idea would be to continue pulling reviews / ratings from Ubuntu's Reviews API and only store reviews / ratings by elementary OS users. It is really up to group consensus. This isn't so much about rewriting things, its more like leveraging existing APIs to get a good jumpstart on an AppCenter. I would appreciate if you'd follow https://bugs.launchpad.net/appcenter/+bug/1091406, as I'll be posting details, potentially initial JSON formatted string files (for showing how some of the data will be struct
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] The future of appcenter
I'm very calm, don't worry, what I would like is to discuss that question "What do you guys want from AppCenter?" I see and app center like the apple AppStore or the google Play. what about the others? Yes, having code to talk about it's good, when you have 200 developers you ask 10 to create something and then compare. but at the moment there are just few developers, so let's define, plan, discuss and when we know what we want to achieve let's try to create it. On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 1:48 PM, Raphael Isemann wrote: > @Goncalo Margalho, calm down. There is no decision made at the moment or > anything like that. I also don't think that Strobl wanted to nuke your part > of the discussion with a "i'll make some proof-of-concept"-code. If we have > code to talk about, we just have a better foundation for a discussion, > don't mind him. > > Before you go crazy here with that stuff, you should first answer that: > > What do you guys want from AppCenter? A user opens it and then he sees the > newest/hottest/whatever apps with some infos (my guess)? Define what > exactly is your target when proposing a radical change to a project (So far > no one has answered shnatsel's question about the problem you see in the > current AppCenter). > > Someone want a webpage instead of AppCenter (if i read that correctly)? > Why? > > You should first answer that before going into technical details. > > 2013/3/26 Chris Timberlake > >> The first decision needs to be "What is AppCenter?" Is it going to be an >> App Store or is it going to be just an App Center as it is now? That >> decision changes the course of the project forever. An AppStore is a huge >> undertaking that should be planned now. >> >> >> On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 5:51 AM, Joshua Strobl >> wrote: >> >>> As I said, these decisions need to be a group consensus. We're not going >>> to be the next Canonical. >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 5:49 AM, Goncalo Margalho >>> wrote: >>> >>> If you do everything on your own deciding everything, there's no need to >>> follow that. >>> Saying that. Good luck with the AppCenter ;) >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Joshua Strobl < >>> truthfroml...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> There is a limiting factor on what we can implement from third parties. For instance, with Ubuntu Reviews API, we (along with everyone else) has read-only access, therefore we are not able to apply our own ratings and reviews (obviously a write process). This is already going to be covered in the API, I'll be pushing out code by the end of the week (hopefully) that will handle a portion of this. The general idea is to either completely pull all the reviews / ratings from Ubuntu, pretty much regarding every application (although I'd prefer we only limit to applications that are actually popular) and store them in our own database. This will ensure that any breaking changes that occur in Ubuntu's Reviews API do not affect AppCenter, since the reviews are stored with us anyways. Another idea would be to continue pulling reviews / ratings from Ubuntu's Reviews API and only store reviews / ratings by elementary OS users. It is really up to group consensus. This isn't so much about rewriting things, its more like leveraging existing APIs to get a good jumpstart on an AppCenter. I would appreciate if you'd follow https://bugs.launchpad.net/appcenter/+bug/1091406, as I'll be posting details, potentially initial JSON formatted string files (for showing how some of the data will be structured when being requested via an HTTP Request) and at some point I'll link to the repo for the API. - Joshua Strobl On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 3:29 AM, Goncalo Margalho wrote: So we are going to rewrite it? Why in linux community people like to rewrite things? We need to plan stuff to work on in and then implement. Here, everyone likes just to implement. Why dont we think about the future. Use our brains to build something that it will stay like this? On Mar 26, 2013 10:07 AM, "Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff" < ser...@elementaryos.org> wrote: > 2013/3/26 Goncalo Margalho > >> I think that the AppCenter now is just a wrapper of packagekit, i >> mean, instead of using apt you use AppCenter, how do you add reviews? >> paying apps etc? >> > > No, it's not. PackageKit API does not provide application screenshots, > for example. They're fetched on-demand from > http://screenshots.ubuntu.com/ or http://screenshots.debian.org/(they're > the same website anyway). > > As for paid apps, there's a staggering number of possibilities. > Ideally we'd use something distribution- and vendor-independent, and I > have > a few ideas on how to achieve that. But IMO it's too early to discuss > implementing paid apps yet. We'll design the a
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] The future of appcenter
@Goncalo Margalho, calm down. There is no decision made at the moment or anything like that. I also don't think that Strobl wanted to nuke your part of the discussion with a "i'll make some proof-of-concept"-code. If we have code to talk about, we just have a better foundation for a discussion, don't mind him. Before you go crazy here with that stuff, you should first answer that: What do you guys want from AppCenter? A user opens it and then he sees the newest/hottest/whatever apps with some infos (my guess)? Define what exactly is your target when proposing a radical change to a project (So far no one has answered shnatsel's question about the problem you see in the current AppCenter). Someone want a webpage instead of AppCenter (if i read that correctly)? Why? You should first answer that before going into technical details. 2013/3/26 Chris Timberlake > The first decision needs to be "What is AppCenter?" Is it going to be an > App Store or is it going to be just an App Center as it is now? That > decision changes the course of the project forever. An AppStore is a huge > undertaking that should be planned now. > > > On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 5:51 AM, Joshua Strobl wrote: > >> As I said, these decisions need to be a group consensus. We're not going >> to be the next Canonical. >> >> >> On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 5:49 AM, Goncalo Margalho >> wrote: >> >> If you do everything on your own deciding everything, there's no need to >> follow that. >> Saying that. Good luck with the AppCenter ;) >> >> >> On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Joshua Strobl > > wrote: >> >>> There is a limiting factor on what we can implement from third parties. >>> For instance, with Ubuntu Reviews API, we (along with everyone else) has >>> read-only access, therefore we are not able to apply our own ratings and >>> reviews (obviously a write process). This is already going to be covered in >>> the API, I'll be pushing out code by the end of the week (hopefully) that >>> will handle a portion of this. >>> >>> The general idea is to either completely pull all the reviews / ratings >>> from Ubuntu, pretty much regarding every application (although I'd prefer >>> we only limit to applications that are actually popular) and store them in >>> our own database. This will ensure that any breaking changes that occur in >>> Ubuntu's Reviews API do not affect AppCenter, since the reviews are stored >>> with us anyways. Another idea would be to continue pulling reviews / >>> ratings from Ubuntu's Reviews API and only store reviews / ratings by >>> elementary OS users. >>> >>> It is really up to group consensus. This isn't so much about rewriting >>> things, its more like leveraging existing APIs to get a good jumpstart on >>> an AppCenter. >>> >>> I would appreciate if you'd follow >>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/appcenter/+bug/1091406, as I'll be posting >>> details, potentially initial JSON formatted string files (for showing how >>> some of the data will be structured when being requested via an HTTP >>> Request) and at some point I'll link to the repo for the API. >>> >>> - Joshua Strobl >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 3:29 AM, Goncalo Margalho >>> wrote: >>> >>> So we are going to rewrite it? Why in linux community people like to >>> rewrite things? We need to plan stuff to work on in and then implement. >>> Here, everyone likes just to implement. Why dont we think about the future. >>> Use our brains to build something that it will stay like this? >>> On Mar 26, 2013 10:07 AM, "Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff" < >>> ser...@elementaryos.org> wrote: >>> 2013/3/26 Goncalo Margalho > I think that the AppCenter now is just a wrapper of packagekit, i > mean, instead of using apt you use AppCenter, how do you add reviews? > paying apps etc? > No, it's not. PackageKit API does not provide application screenshots, for example. They're fetched on-demand from http://screenshots.ubuntu.com/ or http://screenshots.debian.org/(they're the same website anyway). As for paid apps, there's a staggering number of possibilities. Ideally we'd use something distribution- and vendor-independent, and I have a few ideas on how to achieve that. But IMO it's too early to discuss implementing paid apps yet. We'll design the architecture for that when we get there. -- Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff OS architect @ elementary >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community >> Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community >> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >> >> > > > -- > *--**--** > Chris Timberlake* > Technical Architect > Phone: 515-707-5109 > gam...@gmail.com > > -- > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community > Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.ne
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] The future of appcenter
The first decision needs to be "What is AppCenter?" Is it going to be an App Store or is it going to be just an App Center as it is now? That decision changes the course of the project forever. An AppStore is a huge undertaking that should be planned now. On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 5:51 AM, Joshua Strobl wrote: > As I said, these decisions need to be a group consensus. We're not going > to be the next Canonical. > > > On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 5:49 AM, Goncalo Margalho wrote: > > If you do everything on your own deciding everything, there's no need to > follow that. > Saying that. Good luck with the AppCenter ;) > > > On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Joshua Strobl > wrote: > >> There is a limiting factor on what we can implement from third parties. >> For instance, with Ubuntu Reviews API, we (along with everyone else) has >> read-only access, therefore we are not able to apply our own ratings and >> reviews (obviously a write process). This is already going to be covered in >> the API, I'll be pushing out code by the end of the week (hopefully) that >> will handle a portion of this. >> >> The general idea is to either completely pull all the reviews / ratings >> from Ubuntu, pretty much regarding every application (although I'd prefer >> we only limit to applications that are actually popular) and store them in >> our own database. This will ensure that any breaking changes that occur in >> Ubuntu's Reviews API do not affect AppCenter, since the reviews are stored >> with us anyways. Another idea would be to continue pulling reviews / >> ratings from Ubuntu's Reviews API and only store reviews / ratings by >> elementary OS users. >> >> It is really up to group consensus. This isn't so much about rewriting >> things, its more like leveraging existing APIs to get a good jumpstart on >> an AppCenter. >> >> I would appreciate if you'd follow >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/appcenter/+bug/1091406, as I'll be posting >> details, potentially initial JSON formatted string files (for showing how >> some of the data will be structured when being requested via an HTTP >> Request) and at some point I'll link to the repo for the API. >> >> - Joshua Strobl >> >> On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 3:29 AM, Goncalo Margalho >> wrote: >> >> So we are going to rewrite it? Why in linux community people like to >> rewrite things? We need to plan stuff to work on in and then implement. >> Here, everyone likes just to implement. Why dont we think about the future. >> Use our brains to build something that it will stay like this? >> On Mar 26, 2013 10:07 AM, "Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff" < >> ser...@elementaryos.org> wrote: >> >>> 2013/3/26 Goncalo Margalho >>> I think that the AppCenter now is just a wrapper of packagekit, i mean, instead of using apt you use AppCenter, how do you add reviews? paying apps etc? >>> >>> No, it's not. PackageKit API does not provide application screenshots, >>> for example. They're fetched on-demand from >>> http://screenshots.ubuntu.com/ or http://screenshots.debian.org/(they're >>> the same website anyway). >>> >>> As for paid apps, there's a staggering number of possibilities. Ideally >>> we'd use something distribution- and vendor-independent, and I have a few >>> ideas on how to achieve that. But IMO it's too early to discuss >>> implementing paid apps yet. We'll design the architecture for that when we >>> get there. >>> >>> -- >>> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff >>> OS architect @ elementary >> >> > > -- > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community > Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > -- *--**--** Chris Timberlake* Technical Architect Phone: 515-707-5109 gam...@gmail.com -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] The future of appcenter
I started this to discuss but you are saying that you will be pushing code. lol, doesn't look "group consensus" but it's fine, good luck On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 12:51 PM, Joshua Strobl wrote: > As I said, these decisions need to be a group consensus. We're not going > to be the next Canonical. > > > On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 5:49 AM, Goncalo Margalho wrote: > > If you do everything on your own deciding everything, there's no need to > follow that. > Saying that. Good luck with the AppCenter ;) > > > On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Joshua Strobl > wrote: > >> There is a limiting factor on what we can implement from third parties. >> For instance, with Ubuntu Reviews API, we (along with everyone else) has >> read-only access, therefore we are not able to apply our own ratings and >> reviews (obviously a write process). This is already going to be covered in >> the API, I'll be pushing out code by the end of the week (hopefully) that >> will handle a portion of this. >> >> The general idea is to either completely pull all the reviews / ratings >> from Ubuntu, pretty much regarding every application (although I'd prefer >> we only limit to applications that are actually popular) and store them in >> our own database. This will ensure that any breaking changes that occur in >> Ubuntu's Reviews API do not affect AppCenter, since the reviews are stored >> with us anyways. Another idea would be to continue pulling reviews / >> ratings from Ubuntu's Reviews API and only store reviews / ratings by >> elementary OS users. >> >> It is really up to group consensus. This isn't so much about rewriting >> things, its more like leveraging existing APIs to get a good jumpstart on >> an AppCenter. >> >> I would appreciate if you'd follow >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/appcenter/+bug/1091406, as I'll be posting >> details, potentially initial JSON formatted string files (for showing how >> some of the data will be structured when being requested via an HTTP >> Request) and at some point I'll link to the repo for the API. >> >> - Joshua Strobl >> >> On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 3:29 AM, Goncalo Margalho >> wrote: >> >> So we are going to rewrite it? Why in linux community people like to >> rewrite things? We need to plan stuff to work on in and then implement. >> Here, everyone likes just to implement. Why dont we think about the future. >> Use our brains to build something that it will stay like this? >> On Mar 26, 2013 10:07 AM, "Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff" < >> ser...@elementaryos.org> wrote: >> >>> 2013/3/26 Goncalo Margalho >>> I think that the AppCenter now is just a wrapper of packagekit, i mean, instead of using apt you use AppCenter, how do you add reviews? paying apps etc? >>> >>> No, it's not. PackageKit API does not provide application screenshots, >>> for example. They're fetched on-demand from >>> http://screenshots.ubuntu.com/ or http://screenshots.debian.org/(they're >>> the same website anyway). >>> >>> As for paid apps, there's a staggering number of possibilities. Ideally >>> we'd use something distribution- and vendor-independent, and I have a few >>> ideas on how to achieve that. But IMO it's too early to discuss >>> implementing paid apps yet. We'll design the architecture for that when we >>> get there. >>> >>> -- >>> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff >>> OS architect @ elementary >> >> > -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] The future of appcenter
As I said, these decisions need to be a group consensus. We're not going to be the next Canonical. On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 5:49 AM, Goncalo Margalho wrote: If you do everything on your own deciding everything, there's no need to follow that. Saying that. Good luck with the AppCenter ;) On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Joshua Strobl wrote: There is a limiting factor on what we can implement from third parties. For instance, with Ubuntu Reviews API, we (along with everyone else) has read-only access, therefore we are not able to apply our own ratings and reviews (obviously a write process). This is already going to be covered in the API, I'll be pushing out code by the end of the week (hopefully) that will handle a portion of this. The general idea is to either completely pull all the reviews / ratings from Ubuntu, pretty much regarding every application (although I'd prefer we only limit to applications that are actually popular) and store them in our own database. This will ensure that any breaking changes that occur in Ubuntu's Reviews API do not affect AppCenter, since the reviews are stored with us anyways. Another idea would be to continue pulling reviews / ratings from Ubuntu's Reviews API and only store reviews / ratings by elementary OS users. It is really up to group consensus. This isn't so much about rewriting things, its more like leveraging existing APIs to get a good jumpstart on an AppCenter. I would appreciate if you'd follow https://bugs.launchpad.net/appcenter/+bug/1091406, as I'll be posting details, potentially initial JSON formatted string files (for showing how some of the data will be structured when being requested via an HTTP Request) and at some point I'll link to the repo for the API. - Joshua Strobl On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 3:29 AM, Goncalo Margalho wrote: So we are going to rewrite it? Why in linux community people like to rewrite things? We need to plan stuff to work on in and then implement. Here, everyone likes just to implement. Why dont we think about the future. Use our brains to build something that it will stay like this? On Mar 26, 2013 10:07 AM, "Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff" wrote: 2013/3/26 Goncalo Margalho I think that the AppCenter now is just a wrapper of packagekit, i mean, instead of using apt you use AppCenter, how do you add reviews? paying apps etc? No, it's not. PackageKit API does not provide application screenshots, for example. They're fetched on-demand from http://screenshots.ubuntu.com/ or http://screenshots.debian.org/ (they're the same website anyway). As for paid apps, there's a staggering number of possibilities. Ideally we'd use something distribution- and vendor-independent, and I have a few ideas on how to achieve that. But IMO it's too early to discuss implementing paid apps yet. We'll design the architecture for that when we get there. -- Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] The future of appcenter
If you do everything on your own deciding everything, there's no need to follow that. Saying that. Good luck with the AppCenter ;) On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Joshua Strobl wrote: > There is a limiting factor on what we can implement from third parties. > For instance, with Ubuntu Reviews API, we (along with everyone else) has > read-only access, therefore we are not able to apply our own ratings and > reviews (obviously a write process). This is already going to be covered in > the API, I'll be pushing out code by the end of the week (hopefully) that > will handle a portion of this. > > The general idea is to either completely pull all the reviews / ratings > from Ubuntu, pretty much regarding every application (although I'd prefer > we only limit to applications that are actually popular) and store them in > our own database. This will ensure that any breaking changes that occur in > Ubuntu's Reviews API do not affect AppCenter, since the reviews are stored > with us anyways. Another idea would be to continue pulling reviews / > ratings from Ubuntu's Reviews API and only store reviews / ratings by > elementary OS users. > > It is really up to group consensus. This isn't so much about rewriting > things, its more like leveraging existing APIs to get a good jumpstart on > an AppCenter. > > I would appreciate if you'd follow > https://bugs.launchpad.net/appcenter/+bug/1091406, as I'll be posting > details, potentially initial JSON formatted string files (for showing how > some of the data will be structured when being requested via an HTTP > Request) and at some point I'll link to the repo for the API. > > - Joshua Strobl > > On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 3:29 AM, Goncalo Margalho wrote: > > So we are going to rewrite it? Why in linux community people like to > rewrite things? We need to plan stuff to work on in and then implement. > Here, everyone likes just to implement. Why dont we think about the future. > Use our brains to build something that it will stay like this? > On Mar 26, 2013 10:07 AM, "Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff" < > ser...@elementaryos.org> wrote: > >> 2013/3/26 Goncalo Margalho >> >>> I think that the AppCenter now is just a wrapper of packagekit, i mean, >>> instead of using apt you use AppCenter, how do you add reviews? paying apps >>> etc? >>> >> >> No, it's not. PackageKit API does not provide application screenshots, >> for example. They're fetched on-demand from >> http://screenshots.ubuntu.com/ or http://screenshots.debian.org/(they're the >> same website anyway). >> >> As for paid apps, there's a staggering number of possibilities. Ideally >> we'd use something distribution- and vendor-independent, and I have a few >> ideas on how to achieve that. But IMO it's too early to discuss >> implementing paid apps yet. We'll design the architecture for that when we >> get there. >> >> -- >> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff >> OS architect @ elementary > > -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] The future of appcenter
There is a limiting factor on what we can implement from third parties. For instance, with Ubuntu Reviews API, we (along with everyone else) has read-only access, therefore we are not able to apply our own ratings and reviews (obviously a write process). This is already going to be covered in the API, I'll be pushing out code by the end of the week (hopefully) that will handle a portion of this. The general idea is to either completely pull all the reviews / ratings from Ubuntu, pretty much regarding every application (although I'd prefer we only limit to applications that are actually popular) and store them in our own database. This will ensure that any breaking changes that occur in Ubuntu's Reviews API do not affect AppCenter, since the reviews are stored with us anyways. Another idea would be to continue pulling reviews / ratings from Ubuntu's Reviews API and only store reviews / ratings by elementary OS users. It is really up to group consensus. This isn't so much about rewriting things, its more like leveraging existing APIs to get a good jumpstart on an AppCenter. I would appreciate if you'd follow https://bugs.launchpad.net/appcenter/+bug/1091406, as I'll be posting details, potentially initial JSON formatted string files (for showing how some of the data will be structured when being requested via an HTTP Request) and at some point I'll link to the repo for the API. - Joshua Strobl On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 3:29 AM, Goncalo Margalho wrote: So we are going to rewrite it? Why in linux community people like to rewrite things? We need to plan stuff to work on in and then implement. Here, everyone likes just to implement. Why dont we think about the future. Use our brains to build something that it will stay like this? On Mar 26, 2013 10:07 AM, "Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff" wrote: 2013/3/26 Goncalo Margalho I think that the AppCenter now is just a wrapper of packagekit, i mean, instead of using apt you use AppCenter, how do you add reviews? paying apps etc? No, it's not. PackageKit API does not provide application screenshots, for example. They're fetched on-demand from http://screenshots.ubuntu.com/ or http://screenshots.debian.org/ (they're the same website anyway). As for paid apps, there's a staggering number of possibilities. Ideally we'd use something distribution- and vendor-independent, and I have a few ideas on how to achieve that. But IMO it's too early to discuss implementing paid apps yet. We'll design the architecture for that when we get there. -- Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] The future of appcenter
So we are going to rewrite it? Why in linux community people like to rewrite things? We need to plan stuff to work on in and then implement. Here, everyone likes just to implement. Why dont we think about the future. Use our brains to build something that it will stay like this? On Mar 26, 2013 10:07 AM, "Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff" < ser...@elementaryos.org> wrote: > 2013/3/26 Goncalo Margalho > >> I think that the AppCenter now is just a wrapper of packagekit, i mean, >> instead of using apt you use AppCenter, how do you add reviews? paying apps >> etc? >> > > No, it's not. PackageKit API does not provide application screenshots, for > example. They're fetched on-demand from http://screenshots.ubuntu.com/ or > http://screenshots.debian.org/ (they're the same website anyway). > > As for paid apps, there's a staggering number of possibilities. Ideally > we'd use something distribution- and vendor-independent, and I have a few > ideas on how to achieve that. But IMO it's too early to discuss > implementing paid apps yet. We'll design the architecture for that when we > get there. > > -- > Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff > OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] The future of appcenter
2013/3/26 Goncalo Margalho > I think that the AppCenter now is just a wrapper of packagekit, i mean, > instead of using apt you use AppCenter, how do you add reviews? paying apps > etc? > No, it's not. PackageKit API does not provide application screenshots, for example. They're fetched on-demand from http://screenshots.ubuntu.com/ or http://screenshots.debian.org/ (they're the same website anyway). As for paid apps, there's a staggering number of possibilities. Ideally we'd use something distribution- and vendor-independent, and I have a few ideas on how to achieve that. But IMO it's too early to discuss implementing paid apps yet. We'll design the architecture for that when we get there. -- Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] The future of appcenter
I think that the AppCenter now is just a wrapper of packagekit, i mean, instead of using apt you use AppCenter, how do you add reviews? paying apps etc? On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 9:14 AM, Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff < ser...@elementaryos.org> wrote: > 2013/3/26 Goncalo Margalho > >> Hi all, >> first of all I want to congratulate Mefrio (which I don't know his real >> name) for the good work on the AppCenter. >> >> From my point of view the AppCenter should be completely online, like all >> the others appstore, like Play from google, (they have even the webversion >> which is fast so I don't see why it should be fast in an app). >> So what we can do it's make it completely online, so you will load >> everything from a server and if you don't have connection you can't see >> anything. >> >> Or an other alternative it's to keep it like now and in the single view >> (the one of the app that you want to install) load the reviews, images etc >> in background. This could be good but You still have to synchronize with >> new apps. and what about the apps that you need to pay? those ones may not >> be on the repositories so you don't see them. Another solution could be >> that on the load of the AppCenter you download those app and update the >> local dabase. >> >> Which one is the best solution for you? >> > > Before we delve into possible solutions, could you clarify what is the > problem with the way AppCenter works currently? > > -- > Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff > OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] The future of appcenter
2013/3/26 Goncalo Margalho > Hi all, > first of all I want to congratulate Mefrio (which I don't know his real > name) for the good work on the AppCenter. > > From my point of view the AppCenter should be completely online, like all > the others appstore, like Play from google, (they have even the webversion > which is fast so I don't see why it should be fast in an app). > So what we can do it's make it completely online, so you will load > everything from a server and if you don't have connection you can't see > anything. > > Or an other alternative it's to keep it like now and in the single view > (the one of the app that you want to install) load the reviews, images etc > in background. This could be good but You still have to synchronize with > new apps. and what about the apps that you need to pay? those ones may not > be on the repositories so you don't see them. Another solution could be > that on the load of the AppCenter you download those app and update the > local dabase. > > Which one is the best solution for you? > Before we delve into possible solutions, could you clarify what is the problem with the way AppCenter works currently? -- Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] The future of appcenter
I say that we should do our own apis, no doubt about it but for a prototype we can use the provided apis just to see how everything works and if we can continue with that path. Then if we decide that is the right path we can put more people working on it and create something good. On Mar 26, 2013 3:05 AM, "Chris Timberlake" wrote: > Why not just make a supplemental api? > > So you do website.com/followthru/couchbaseshit > > And website.com/customapishit/ > > Then you are essentially having both a crunch base a pi and then a custom > a pi. It makes no sense to do double the work when someones already done it. > > Plus scalability is important if your going to have an app store. At the > moment appcenter has zero chance of being a real appstore. Couchbase would > be a step in the right direction in changing that. > On Mar 25, 2013 5:34 PM, "Goncalo Margalho" wrote: > >> No what i mean is to do in this way to build a prototype, to see if it >> works properly, because some people are saying that if we do it online will >> be very slow. SO we can build a prototype, making the less effort possible >> (this is why i said to use those APIs to access the DB) and if it works and >> everyone agrees on how it is then we can work and make real APIs, written >> in the language that we prefer, around it. >> >> I think this software will be the center of everything, so we have to >> make it very good, fast, easy and full of features. >> >> So what do you think on doing it in this way? >> >> >> On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 12:28 AM, Joshua Strobl >> wrote: >> >>> A self-build API, in my opinion, allows for more flexibility and >>> integration with third-party services (such as the Ubuntu Reviews API) than >>> a generated API from Couchbase. It may not necessarily be easier to >>> maintain, however we'll be able to add / remove features at our own speed >>> and not rely on potential breaking changes by Couchbase. >>> >>> One could say that we could just stick with a particular version of >>> Couchbase to ensure things don't break, but that opens up the doors for >>> future security exploits and vulnerabilities. >>> >>> On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 5:20 PM, Goncalo Margalho >>> wrote: >>> >>> Why should we "waste" time on building an API for it if we could just >>> build the database with couchbase (which is very scalable as well) and just >>> use those ones, they are there, we just need to prepare the queries (if >>> needed) I could help setting up everything. >>> >>> >>> http://www.couchbase.com/docs/couchbase-manual-2.0/couchbase-views-querying-rest-api.html >>> here >>> you can see an example, the APIs are generated automatically. I can set up >>> the infrastracture, define the DB with someone and just make some tests :) >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 12:18 AM, Joshua Strobl >> > wrote: >>> I do want to say, Goncalo, since I forgot to mention it in my prior email, that if you could work on setting up and maintaining the infrastructure, I can handle the API. You'd have my love...or a cookie. Whatever you prefer. A cookie sounds better. - Joshua Strobl >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community >> Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community >> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >> >> -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] The future of appcenter
Why not just make a supplemental api? So you do website.com/followthru/couchbaseshit And website.com/customapishit/ Then you are essentially having both a crunch base a pi and then a custom a pi. It makes no sense to do double the work when someones already done it. Plus scalability is important if your going to have an app store. At the moment appcenter has zero chance of being a real appstore. Couchbase would be a step in the right direction in changing that. On Mar 25, 2013 5:34 PM, "Goncalo Margalho" wrote: > No what i mean is to do in this way to build a prototype, to see if it > works properly, because some people are saying that if we do it online will > be very slow. SO we can build a prototype, making the less effort possible > (this is why i said to use those APIs to access the DB) and if it works and > everyone agrees on how it is then we can work and make real APIs, written > in the language that we prefer, around it. > > I think this software will be the center of everything, so we have to make > it very good, fast, easy and full of features. > > So what do you think on doing it in this way? > > > On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 12:28 AM, Joshua Strobl > wrote: > >> A self-build API, in my opinion, allows for more flexibility and >> integration with third-party services (such as the Ubuntu Reviews API) than >> a generated API from Couchbase. It may not necessarily be easier to >> maintain, however we'll be able to add / remove features at our own speed >> and not rely on potential breaking changes by Couchbase. >> >> One could say that we could just stick with a particular version of >> Couchbase to ensure things don't break, but that opens up the doors for >> future security exploits and vulnerabilities. >> >> On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 5:20 PM, Goncalo Margalho >> wrote: >> >> Why should we "waste" time on building an API for it if we could just >> build the database with couchbase (which is very scalable as well) and just >> use those ones, they are there, we just need to prepare the queries (if >> needed) I could help setting up everything. >> >> >> http://www.couchbase.com/docs/couchbase-manual-2.0/couchbase-views-querying-rest-api.html >> here >> you can see an example, the APIs are generated automatically. I can set up >> the infrastracture, define the DB with someone and just make some tests :) >> >> >> On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 12:18 AM, Joshua Strobl >> wrote: >> >>> I do want to say, Goncalo, since I forgot to mention it in my prior >>> email, that if you could work on setting up and maintaining the >>> infrastructure, I can handle the API. >>> >>> You'd have my love...or a cookie. Whatever you prefer. A cookie sounds >>> better. >>> >>> - Joshua Strobl >>> >> >> > > -- > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community > Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] The future of appcenter
An AppCenter inherits the need to be "online", in a sense that it requires network connection to fetch package information and install packages. In terms of making it online like Google Play or PlayDeb, that is an idea I've pondered on myself. In terms of the loading of an application data, I've already begun work on that over at https://bugs.launchpad.net/appcenter/+bug/1091406 The idea is to use a PHP-based API that fetches data from a database (it could be MariaDB / MySQL, Cassandra, etc) and returns it in a JSON formatted string. Obviously MySQL and MariaDB aren't all that scalable and I'd prefer whatever we use be ready to be scaled already. In terms of implementing BOTH a web-based front-end and the AppCenter, that is a huge division in resources that I don't think should be undertaken. Either it should be a web-based front-end or not. Not only would you need to develop both but upkeep both and it makes no sense to have both when most people would use the native application anyways. It is my opinion that since native application development is already occurring for the AppCenter, we stay on course with that. "The AppCenter will need just to call the APIs that are already provided so we don't have to do any extra effort implementing APIs." I'll be setting up either a repo on GitHub (I prefer git to be honest) or a bzr repo on LaunchPad for an API and push some code out (hopefully) by Friday. Whether it'll be officially supported / adopted by Elementary OS or not, I don't know, I'll honestly be working on it regardless since I'll be using the API internally as well (doing deployment at my startup). - Joshua Strobl On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 4:15 PM, Goncalo Margalho wrote: Hi all, first of all I want to congratulate Mefrio (which I don't know his real name) for the good work on the AppCenter. From my point of view the AppCenter should be completely online, like all the others appstore, like Play from google, (they have even the webversion which is fast so I don't see why it should be fast in an app). So what we can do it's make it completely online, so you will load everything from a server and if you don't have connection you can't see anything. Or an other alternative it's to keep it like now and in the single view (the one of the app that you want to install) load the reviews, images etc in background. This could be good but You still have to synchronize with new apps. and what about the apps that you need to pay? those ones may not be on the repositories so you don't see them. Another solution could be that on the load of the AppCenter you download those app and update the local dabase. Which one is the best solution for you? I was thinking on an implementation of the AppCenter Server with a Couchbase server. I don't know if anyone used it before but it's a NoSQL DB born from the fusion between CouchDB and Memcached. The db stores the data in JSON, which is good because it has already an API by default for any "table"/"view" that you create ( http://www.couchbase.com/docs/couchbase-manual-2.0/couchbase-views-querying-rest-api.html ) and the scaling is just amazing, you just add more servers and does everything on its own, just incredible to see. I could implement it (even in my server, since I know that the server at the moment is not very powerful) and do a test, we could easily implement a web interface for it with the webteam and we could work with mefrio to implement it in the appcenter in a way that we all agree. The AppCenter will need just to call the APIs that are already provided so we don't have to do any extra effort implementing APIs. I hope to get some feedback on this. Goncalo "DevAlien" Margalho -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] The future of appcenter
No what i mean is to do in this way to build a prototype, to see if it works properly, because some people are saying that if we do it online will be very slow. SO we can build a prototype, making the less effort possible (this is why i said to use those APIs to access the DB) and if it works and everyone agrees on how it is then we can work and make real APIs, written in the language that we prefer, around it. I think this software will be the center of everything, so we have to make it very good, fast, easy and full of features. So what do you think on doing it in this way? On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 12:28 AM, Joshua Strobl wrote: > A self-build API, in my opinion, allows for more flexibility and > integration with third-party services (such as the Ubuntu Reviews API) than > a generated API from Couchbase. It may not necessarily be easier to > maintain, however we'll be able to add / remove features at our own speed > and not rely on potential breaking changes by Couchbase. > > One could say that we could just stick with a particular version of > Couchbase to ensure things don't break, but that opens up the doors for > future security exploits and vulnerabilities. > > On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 5:20 PM, Goncalo Margalho wrote: > > Why should we "waste" time on building an API for it if we could just > build the database with couchbase (which is very scalable as well) and just > use those ones, they are there, we just need to prepare the queries (if > needed) I could help setting up everything. > > > http://www.couchbase.com/docs/couchbase-manual-2.0/couchbase-views-querying-rest-api.html > here > you can see an example, the APIs are generated automatically. I can set up > the infrastracture, define the DB with someone and just make some tests :) > > > On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 12:18 AM, Joshua Strobl > wrote: > >> I do want to say, Goncalo, since I forgot to mention it in my prior >> email, that if you could work on setting up and maintaining the >> infrastructure, I can handle the API. >> >> You'd have my love...or a cookie. Whatever you prefer. A cookie sounds >> better. >> >> - Joshua Strobl >> > > -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] The future of appcenter
A self-build API, in my opinion, allows for more flexibility and integration with third-party services (such as the Ubuntu Reviews API) than a generated API from Couchbase. It may not necessarily be easier to maintain, however we'll be able to add / remove features at our own speed and not rely on potential breaking changes by Couchbase. One could say that we could just stick with a particular version of Couchbase to ensure things don't break, but that opens up the doors for future security exploits and vulnerabilities. On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 5:20 PM, Goncalo Margalho wrote: Why should we "waste" time on building an API for it if we could just build the database with couchbase (which is very scalable as well) and just use those ones, they are there, we just need to prepare the queries (if needed) I could help setting up everything. http://www.couchbase.com/docs/couchbase-manual-2.0/couchbase-views-querying-rest-api.html here you can see an example, the APIs are generated automatically. I can set up the infrastracture, define the DB with someone and just make some tests :) On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 12:18 AM, Joshua Strobl wrote: I do want to say, Goncalo, since I forgot to mention it in my prior email, that if you could work on setting up and maintaining the infrastructure, I can handle the API. You'd have my love...or a cookie. Whatever you prefer. A cookie sounds better. - Joshua Strobl -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] The future of appcenter
Why should we "waste" time on building an API for it if we could just build the database with couchbase (which is very scalable as well) and just use those ones, they are there, we just need to prepare the queries (if needed) I could help setting up everything. http://www.couchbase.com/docs/couchbase-manual-2.0/couchbase-views-querying-rest-api.html here you can see an example, the APIs are generated automatically. I can set up the infrastracture, define the DB with someone and just make some tests :) On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 12:18 AM, Joshua Strobl wrote: > I do want to say, Goncalo, since I forgot to mention it in my prior email, > that if you could work on setting up and maintaining the infrastructure, I > can handle the API. > > You'd have my love...or a cookie. Whatever you prefer. A cookie sounds > better. > > - Joshua Strobl > -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] The future of appcenter
I do want to say, Goncalo, since I forgot to mention it in my prior email, that if you could work on setting up and maintaining the infrastructure, I can handle the API. You'd have my love...or a cookie. Whatever you prefer. A cookie sounds better. - Joshua Strobl -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp