Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Wayland plans? Here is a proof of concept compositor :)
Jose, wayland is just a protocol. Toolkits abstract the display server
and they
may or may not implement wayland. In fact wayland has a design that
decouples
multiple things that were all in on solution under X11
including the compositor, where Weston is the reference compositor.
So I am sorry but mentioning 'Qt Wayland compositor' to make a case for
Qt usage
makes it stink.
I AM NOT A CORE DEVELOPER of eOS, but am a interested party and have
been following this
project for quite a while, and now that the disclaimer is provided, I
would say
that this most likely applies to most projects you may want to
contribute, approach
projects showing your case and intentions clearly,
example:
I want to develop an application
Z, I am intending to use Qt, I know the selected toolkit is Gtk+ and
vala, are there
any strong reasons for me not to use it Qt?
example2:
I am familiar/interested in Wayland and Qt, I would like to do X to help
the project on this technologies, how could I be more useful.
the above approaches are just examples but at least they don't give the
idea
that you are just trying to come to a project and say 'do my terms if
you want
my help.'
Cheers
The Elementary Project `Watch Dog - dardevelin`
On 2014-06-06 19:21, Daniel Foré wrote:
Hey José,
As far as I know, Mutter does run on Wayland. So I'm not sure it makes
sense to write a brand new compositor when we could continue to use
Gala.
But yes, I think right now it makes the most sense for us to be
thinking Wayland instead of Mir.
Cheers,
Daniel Foré
elementaryos.org
On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 11:01 AM, José Expósito
jose.exposit...@gmail.com wrote:
I was not talking about porting all the apps to Qt, actually this is
not necessary you can run GTK+ apps over a Qt Wayland compositor
without any problems, I was talking about write *one* app using Qt.
But if for some good reason you don't want to include Qt in the
default CD image (to save a couple of MB?) then that is OK otherwise
let me know, I'd be more than happy to collaborate with the eOS
project :)
2014-06-06 18:50 GMT+01:00 Jacob Parker jacobparker1...@gmail.com:
José,
There is no possibility of porting to Qt, as all the apps are done
with Vala (dependency on Gtk). Gtk+ also supports Wayland.
Hope this helps!
On Fri, Jun 06, 2014 at 6:41 pm, José Expósito
jose.exposit...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi all,
I was wondering what are the plans of the eOS team about Wayland.
Are you choosing Wayland or Mir?
Personally speaking, I think that Wayland is the correct option here
for a lots of reasons, so I made a proof of concept C++/QML
compositor that looks like [1].
I know that elementary OS relies on GTK+ but in my opinion, talking
about Wayland and interface design, Qt is a step ahead GTK+,
allowing you to make 100% customizable GUIs without many effort.
To quote some example, as you can see in the screenshot, the window
shadow is implemented in 7 QML lines:
RectangularGlow {
anchors.fill: parent
glowRadius: shadowRadius
spread: 0.2
color: Qt.rgba(0,0,0,0.5)
cornerRadius: shadowRadius
}
And the fade in/out effect for opening/closing windows is
implemented in 3 lines:
Behavior on opacity {
NumberAnimation { easing.type: Easing.InCubic; duration: 400; }
}
Plus you can build 100% custom responsive UIs (phone, tablet and
desktop in the same app without many changes) with cool animations
as you can see in this other project [2] And yes... that means that
it is possible to adapt the compositor to run it in different kind
of devices like phones or tablets.
And all of this is hardware accelerated :) So, after pointing why I
used Qt instead of GTK+ to build this proof of concept compositor,
I'd like to ask you... Are you guys interested on porting the eOS
shell to Wayland? Would you be interested in the use of Qt, or do
you prefer to maintain a GTK+ only system for some reason? If the
answer is yes, would you be interested on my collaboration?
I'm waiting for your reply,
Thank you!
[1] http://oi60.tinypic.com/ekrjaw.jpg [1]
[2] https://github.com/JoseExposito/ubuntuone-qt-files [2]
Links:
--
[1] http://oi60.tinypic.com/ekrjaw.jpg
[2] https://github.com/JoseExposito/ubuntuone-qt-files
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Wayland plans? Here is a proof of concept compositor :)
You should know better, X11, Mir, Wayland ALL are abstracted by the
toolkits.
So I am sorry my useless words caught up your Qt Agenda. So far
I have only seen you say
'We should use Qt + Wayland not Gtk + Mir because I know it better'
even though it doesn't matter because they are abstracted.
On 2014-06-06 21:35, José Expósito wrote:
As far as I know, Mutter does run on Wayland. So I'm not sure it
makes
sense to write a brand new compositor when we could continue to use
Gala.
Great, I didn't know that libmutter already implements the Wayland
protocol, those are good news and, in this situation a new compositor
doesn't make sense if the team is not thinking on convergence, I'd
really love to see eOS on my tablet and I'd love to collaborate.
As eOS user is good to know that the project is going to Wayland
instead of Mir.
@dardevelin
So I am sorry but mentioning 'Qt Wayland compositor' to make a case
for Qt usage
makes it stink.
Reading this link is highly recommended:
http://qt-project.org/wiki/QtWayland [4]
Qt Wayland is a separate Qt module composed by two different parts:
the client API and the compositor API, so the only thing that stink
here is your attitude. I'm a C++ Qt developer, not a Vala GTK
developer, that is why I offer my help using this technologies,
pointing, in my opinion, good reason of why a new QML compositor could
be a good option to integrate new features in the project
(movile/tablet/PC shells, possibility of deploy apps on iOS, Android,
BlackBerry, Windows, OS X, Ubuntu Touch, etc, hardware acceleration
out of the box...) and I come here with source code, not with useless
words ;)
However, It looks like eOS is going to use libmutter-wayland, so,
unfortunately, I can not help with that simply because I'm not a Vala
developer, not because I was trying to force the inclusion of Qt or
something similar.
2014-06-06 20:56 GMT+01:00 dardeve...@cidadecool.com:
Jose, wayland is just a protocol. Toolkits abstract the display
server and they
may or may not implement wayland. In fact wayland has a design that
decouples
multiple things that were all in on solution under X11
including the compositor, where Weston is the reference compositor.
So I am sorry but mentioning 'Qt Wayland compositor' to make a case
for Qt usage
makes it stink.
I AM NOT A CORE DEVELOPER of eOS, but am a interested party and
have been following this
project for quite a while, and now that the disclaimer is provided,
I would say
that this most likely applies to most projects you may want to
contribute, approach
projects showing your case and intentions clearly,
example:
I want to develop an application
Z, I am intending to use Qt, I know the selected toolkit is Gtk+
and vala, are there
any strong reasons for me not to use it Qt?
example2:
I am familiar/interested in Wayland and Qt, I would like to do X to
help
the project on this technologies, how could I be more useful.
the above approaches are just examples but at least they don't give
the idea
that you are just trying to come to a project and say 'do my terms
if you want
my help.'
Cheers
The Elementary Project `Watch Dog - dardevelin`
On 2014-06-06 19:21, Daniel Foré wrote:
Hey José,
As far as I know, Mutter does run on Wayland. So I'm not sure it
makes
sense to write a brand new compositor when we could continue to use
Gala.
But yes, I think right now it makes the most sense for us to be
thinking Wayland instead of Mir.
Cheers,
Daniel Foré
elementaryos.org [1]
On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 11:01 AM, José Expósito
jose.exposit...@gmail.com wrote:
I was not talking about porting all the apps to Qt, actually this
is
not necessary you can run GTK+ apps over a Qt Wayland compositor
without any problems, I was talking about write *one* app using Qt.
But if for some good reason you don't want to include Qt in the
default CD image (to save a couple of MB?) then that is OK
otherwise
let me know, I'd be more than happy to collaborate with the eOS
project :)
2014-06-06 18:50 GMT+01:00 Jacob Parker
jacobparker1...@gmail.com:
José,
There is no possibility of porting to Qt, as all the apps are done
with Vala (dependency on Gtk). Gtk+ also supports Wayland.
Hope this helps!
On Fri, Jun 06, 2014 at 6:41 pm, José Expósito
jose.exposit...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi all,
I was wondering what are the plans of the eOS team about Wayland.
Are you choosing Wayland or Mir?
Personally speaking, I think that Wayland is the correct option
here
for a lots of reasons, so I made a proof of concept C++/QML
compositor that looks like [1].
I know that elementary OS relies on GTK+ but in my opinion, talking
about Wayland and interface design, Qt is a step ahead GTK+,
allowing you to make 100% customizable GUIs without many effort.
To quote some example, as you can see in the screenshot, the window
shadow is implemented in 7 QML lines:
RectangularGlow {
anchors.fill: parent
glowRadius: shadowRadius
spread: 0.2
color: Qt.rgba(0,0,0,0.5)
cornerRadius: shadowRadius
}
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Wayland plans? Here is a proof of concept compositor :)
I didn't say that, I only proposed a new project to add new features to eOS, the eOS developers say no... So end of the conversation, their project their rules ;) Feel free to answer this email (I'd suggest you to read some documentation about the status of the implementation in both toolkits and the difference between implementing a client and a compositor) but I'm not going to answer you, this is a developer mailing list, not a Qt vs GTK+ mailing list, plus you are acting like if I was saying that GTK+ is evil and you were Spencer Kimball or Peter Mattis... At the end of the day all are eOS and GTK+ users, aren't we? Take it easy. El 06/06/2014 21:50, dardeve...@cidadecool.com escribió: You should know better, X11, Mir, Wayland ALL are abstracted by the toolkits. So I am sorry my useless words caught up your Qt Agenda. So far I have only seen you say 'We should use Qt + Wayland not Gtk + Mir because I know it better' even though it doesn't matter because they are abstracted. On 2014-06-06 21:35, José Expósito wrote: As far as I know, Mutter does run on Wayland. So I'm not sure it makes sense to write a brand new compositor when we could continue to use Gala. Great, I didn't know that libmutter already implements the Wayland protocol, those are good news and, in this situation a new compositor doesn't make sense if the team is not thinking on convergence, I'd really love to see eOS on my tablet and I'd love to collaborate. As eOS user is good to know that the project is going to Wayland instead of Mir. @dardevelin So I am sorry but mentioning 'Qt Wayland compositor' to make a case for Qt usage makes it stink. Reading this link is highly recommended: http://qt-project.org/wiki/QtWayland [4] Qt Wayland is a separate Qt module composed by two different parts: the client API and the compositor API, so the only thing that stink here is your attitude. I'm a C++ Qt developer, not a Vala GTK developer, that is why I offer my help using this technologies, pointing, in my opinion, good reason of why a new QML compositor could be a good option to integrate new features in the project (movile/tablet/PC shells, possibility of deploy apps on iOS, Android, BlackBerry, Windows, OS X, Ubuntu Touch, etc, hardware acceleration out of the box...) and I come here with source code, not with useless words ;) However, It looks like eOS is going to use libmutter-wayland, so, unfortunately, I can not help with that simply because I'm not a Vala developer, not because I was trying to force the inclusion of Qt or something similar. 2014-06-06 20:56 GMT+01:00 dardeve...@cidadecool.com: Jose, wayland is just a protocol. Toolkits abstract the display server and they may or may not implement wayland. In fact wayland has a design that decouples multiple things that were all in on solution under X11 including the compositor, where Weston is the reference compositor. So I am sorry but mentioning 'Qt Wayland compositor' to make a case for Qt usage makes it stink. I AM NOT A CORE DEVELOPER of eOS, but am a interested party and have been following this project for quite a while, and now that the disclaimer is provided, I would say that this most likely applies to most projects you may want to contribute, approach projects showing your case and intentions clearly, example: I want to develop an application Z, I am intending to use Qt, I know the selected toolkit is Gtk+ and vala, are there any strong reasons for me not to use it Qt? example2: I am familiar/interested in Wayland and Qt, I would like to do X to help the project on this technologies, how could I be more useful. the above approaches are just examples but at least they don't give the idea that you are just trying to come to a project and say 'do my terms if you want my help.' Cheers The Elementary Project `Watch Dog - dardevelin` On 2014-06-06 19:21, Daniel Foré wrote: Hey José, As far as I know, Mutter does run on Wayland. So I'm not sure it makes sense to write a brand new compositor when we could continue to use Gala. But yes, I think right now it makes the most sense for us to be thinking Wayland instead of Mir. Cheers, Daniel Foré elementaryos.org [1] On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 11:01 AM, José Expósito jose.exposit...@gmail.com wrote: I was not talking about porting all the apps to Qt, actually this is not necessary you can run GTK+ apps over a Qt Wayland compositor without any problems, I was talking about write *one* app using Qt. But if for some good reason you don't want to include Qt in the default CD image (to save a couple of MB?) then that is OK otherwise let me know, I'd be more than happy to collaborate with the eOS project :) 2014-06-06 18:50 GMT+01:00 Jacob Parker jacobparker1...@gmail.com: José, There is no possibility of porting to Qt, as all the apps are done with Vala (dependency on Gtk). Gtk+ also supports Wayland. Hope this
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Wayland plans? Here is a proof of concept compositor :)
Gys, please don't start a flamewar out of nowhere! Jose: Thanks for your proposal! Libmutter does indeed implement a Wayland compositor and it's the Glib equivalent of Qt's compositor module. Migration to Mir does not make sense for us because Mutter and even GTK are not natively supported by it, so we'll have to go with Wayland - it's pretty much our only option. However, I expect all our stuff and especially Gala to be shaken up for the Wayland migration, and I'd like to see a more radical redesign after the iterative Isis cycle. Among the things I'd really like to see implemented is this: https://docs.google.com/document/d/10W8udXK-fumvnFlyLG1G27iUWKnTcCa-ck09tO_OkdU/edit I'm not aware of anyone doing such things before, so that sounds like a fun ride to take part in! If you're interested, Vala is easier to use than C++, so you should be able to migrate in no time - especially given the fact that it compiles to C :) https://live.gnome.org/Vala/Tutorial and http://elementaryos.org/docs/code provide a good kick-start. Cheers, -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
