`Function.identity/1`: I think you just hit the nail on the head with this one.
Nice middle ground I'm +1 for this one. On Tue, 30 Jul 2019 12:46:53 -0400 Allen Madsen <allen.c.mad...@gmail.com> wrote: > I don't have a strong opinion on this function's inclusion. It's not > mandatory that it live in Kernel though. It could exist on Function. > > Allen Madsen > http://www.allenmadsen.com > > > On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 12:29 PM Chris McCord <ch...@chrismccord.com> wrote: > > > I’m just catching up on this thread now, but I’m in the “not valuable > > enough to be added” camp. I’ve personally never needed such an abstraction > > – on my own or while teaching. Also, an anon function serves the purpose > > when needed without introducing a new concept. From the beginner > > perspective, I think `identify` adds more noise where it isn’t needed. Even > > following this thread and reading other lang usage, I still find the name > > awkward and struggle to see it being a net benefit to my code vs what I’d > > happily write today. Given how trivial it is to return the value yourself > > in a concise and clear way, I don’t think the value of it squatting in > > kernel is enough to justify an addition to the std lib. > > > > On Jul 21, 2019, at 8:47 AM, Bruce Tate <br...@grox.io> wrote: > > > > I want to speak to the beginners argument. I am not guessing. I spend 6-8 > > hours teaching and mentoring every week, and it's more when school is in. > > Concepts are easier to teach when those concepts have names and big > > concepts can be broken down into smaller ones. The students I teach are > > about 80% new to FP and about 40% new to programming in general. > > > > I will take the advice of mixing in FP.identity if it cuts against the > > grain of what Elixir is about. > > > > Thanks to all for making Elixir the best it can be... let's keep it civil. > > I think it makes a lot of sense to take José's suggestion and collect some > > of these concepts into a library and prove their worth there, to language > > learners and otherwise. > > > > -bt > > > > On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 5:12 AM Andrea Leopardi <an.leopa...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > >> My 2 cents. To me a strong argument against this is that &identity/1 > >> still looks confusing to newcomers with the capture syntax (how many "why > >> can't I just write identity like in Js questions do we get after all), so > >> summed with the other arguments against it makes me not want to add this to > >> the language personally. > >> > >> On Mon, 15 Jul 2019 at 09:30, Masoud Ghorbani <msud.ghorb...@gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Isn't possible to have something like JavaScript arguments which > >>> correspond with a list of parameters passed to function? > >>> its more handy to lookup a parameter in a list or map until working with > >>> a function to get a given parameter. > >>> > >>> On Tuesday, July 2, 2019 at 11:10:45 PM UTC+4:30, José Valim wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Thanks Chris, it is important that someone being counter arguments, > >>>> even if they can be disproved. :) > >>>> > >>>> I definitely see how such a small function can be useful but, at the > >>>> same time, I am not convinced about the name "identity". > >>>> > >>>> I found it curious that Clojure actually have an identity function > >>>> because the definition of Identity they use when talking about values and > >>>> change is a more complex one (and one that really stuck with me): > >>>> > >>>> *> By identity I mean a stable logical entity associated with a series > >>>> of different values over time* > >>>> > >>>> https://clojure.org/about/state#_working_models_and_identity > >>>> > >>>> Of course, my interpretation above is likely uncommon and there are > >>>> other interpretations of identity that would fit nicely. > >>>> > >>>> Anyway, to move the discussion forward, can someone do a more complete > >>>> survey on what this function are called in many of the other languages? I > >>>> just want to make sure we do our due diligence before adding it to the > >>>> language. > >>>> > >>>> Thank you, > >>>> > >>>> *José Valim* > >>>> www.plataformatec.com.br > >>>> Skype: jv.ptec > >>>> Founder and Director of R&D > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Tue, Jul 2, 2019 at 8:25 PM Christopher Keele <christ...@gmail.com> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Derp, I knew that. Good point. > >>>>> > >>>>> On Tue, Jul 2, 2019 at 9:55 AM Michał Muskała <mic...@muskala.eu> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Because Elixir is a lisp-2 language, variables and functions are in > >>>>>> different "namespaces". This means you can have local variables with > >>>>>> names > >>>>>> of local functions without any issues, but it also means you need > >>>>>> different > >>>>>> syntax when you want to call a function contained in a variable. Or > >>>>>> formulated differently - variables can't shadow functions. For example, > >>>>>> consider: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> bar = &foo/0 > >>>>>> bar.() #=> 1 > >>>>>> bar() #=> 2 > >>>>>> def foo(), do: 1def bar(), do: 2 > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Having a Kernel.id/1 function would not preclude you from using > >>>>>> variables called id. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Michał. > >>>>>> On 2 Jul 2019, 18:41 +0200, Christopher Keele <christ...@gmail.com>, > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I'd cast my vote against this. The proposal seems to be: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> 1. Create a function named 'id' or some such > >>>>>> 2. Put it in the Kernel namespace (so it need not be prefixed) > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I've been doing a lot of python lately and they have a lot of things > >>>>>> like this, including the same 'filter' global function mentioned in > >>>>>> this > >>>>>> thread. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Points against: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> 1. It'd suck to not be able to use 'id' as a variable name, and would > >>>>>> conflict with a lot of existing code. > >>>>>> 2. Alternative names to 'id' or namespacing it are not shorter than > >>>>>> '&(&1)' > >>>>>> 3. '&(&1)' is more open to change with requirements > >>>>>> 4. Adopting 'id' within Kernel would encourage adding more utility > >>>>>> functions to it, exacerbating 1, like the proposed 'filter' function > >>>>>> 5. Not adopting it within the Kernel would be hard, as there's no > >>>>>> real appropriate place for it elsewhere in standard lib, unlike Enum's > >>>>>> 'filter' > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Generally it's a nice idea, but I can't think of a great way to make > >>>>>> it work, and it'd open the floodgates to more utility functions that > >>>>>> I've > >>>>>> come to find grating in day-to-day python development. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Just my two cents, > >>>>>> Chris K > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >>>>>> Groups "elixir-lang-core" group. > >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > >>>>>> send an email to elixir-l...@googlegroups.com. > >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit > >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elixir-lang-core/fffd5b76-4385-40de-93bd-148f1b94bb27%40googlegroups.com > >>>>>> 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https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >>>>> Groups "elixir-lang-core" group. > >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > >>>>> an email to elixir-l...@googlegroups.com. > >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit > >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elixir-lang-core/CAD9kT2R41gmZXU9_YAqAdyJQDP-M37j-mgUet-okoeBzF%3DdMDA%40mail.gmail.com > >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elixir-lang-core/CAD9kT2R41gmZXU9_YAqAdyJQDP-M37j-mgUet-okoeBzF%3DdMDA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > >>>>> . > >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> -- > >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >>> Groups "elixir-lang-core" group. > >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > >>> an email to 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