On Tuesday, 10 Mar 2015 at 09:50, Rasmus wrote:
Nicolas Goaziou m...@nicolasgoaziou.fr writes:
Since this one is not much more intrusive than the previous one, we
could as well drop @key in favor of @{key}.
It seems like a moderately dear price to pay for everyone with normal
citation
On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 6:18 AM, Eric S Fraga e.fr...@ucl.ac.uk wrote:
On Tuesday, 10 Mar 2015 at 09:50, Rasmus wrote:
Nicolas Goaziou m...@nicolasgoaziou.fr writes:
Since this one is not much more intrusive than the previous one, we
could as well drop @key in favor of @{key}.
It seems
Eric S Fraga e.fr...@ucl.ac.uk writes:
On Tuesday, 10 Mar 2015 at 09:50, Rasmus wrote:
Nicolas Goaziou m...@nicolasgoaziou.fr writes:
Since this one is not much more intrusive than the previous one, we
could as well drop @key in favor of @{key}.
It seems like a moderately dear price to pay
Hi Rasmus,
Thanks, your post was very informative.
Rasmus ras...@gmx.us writes:
...
Can you turn off the automatic addition of commas in BibLaTeX by setting
something in the preamble?
Preamble or using \AtNextCite
If so, would that be the right solution here? It might be easier to
On Monday, 9 Mar 2015 at 17:36, Richard Lawrence wrote:
[...]
I feel the same as you do about this, so here's one more thought for the
thread. How about this alternative?
We keep the existing syntax for keys, which disallows key-ending
punctuation, but we also allow a second style of key,
Eric S Fraga e.fr...@ucl.ac.uk writes:
We keep the existing syntax for keys, which disallows key-ending
punctuation, but we also allow a second style of key, in which curly
braces surround the key name proper, like:
@{Doe1999}
I like this much better.
I'd rather have a single syntax for
Nicolas Goaziou m...@nicolasgoaziou.fr writes:
I'd rather have a single syntax for keys.
Me to.
Since this one is not much more intrusive than the previous one, we
could as well drop @key in favor of @{key}.
It seems like a moderately dear price to pay for everyone with normal
citation
Vaidheeswaran C vaidheeswaran.chinnar...@gmail.com writes:
By saying bibtex is not a requirement,
I said exporting to bibtex. You talked about Zotero but showed a
bibtex entry. Therefore exporting from Zotero to bibtex may not
be a requirement, there may be a direct interface to Zotero,
Hi Tom and all,
Thomas S. Dye t...@tsdye.com writes:
Richard Lawrence richard.lawre...@berkeley.edu writes:
But my opinion probably shouldn't count for much on this
point, because I don't use a citation manager myself (I use org-bibtex),
and I write my own keys.
Oh my. This is a lot to
On Monday, 9 Mar 2015 at 09:05, Richard Lawrence wrote:
[...]
Another option would be to allow clause-ending punctuation in all keys,
but introduce some kind of optional syntax to express `this key ends
No, please no! I would say that the majority of my citations are at the
end of
Aloha Eric,
Eric S Fraga e.fr...@ucl.ac.uk writes:
On Monday, 9 Mar 2015 at 09:05, Richard Lawrence wrote:
[...]
Another option would be to allow clause-ending punctuation in all keys,
but introduce some kind of optional syntax to express `this key ends
No, please no! I would say that
Richard Lawrence richard.lawre...@berkeley.edu writes:
Hi Tom and all,
Thomas S. Dye t...@tsdye.com writes:
Richard Lawrence richard.lawre...@berkeley.edu writes:
But my opinion probably shouldn't count for much on this
point, because I don't use a citation manager myself (I use
On Monday, 9 Mar 2015 at 07:49, Thomas S. Dye wrote:
[...]
Do you have a use for the shortcuts? I doubt I'd use them.
Wouldn't the shortcut be the most attractive to use generally unless you
have need for the extra capability of the full [cite:] syntax?
The vast majority of my citations,
Eric S Fraga e.fr...@ucl.ac.uk writes:
On Monday, 9 Mar 2015 at 07:49, Thomas S. Dye wrote:
[...]
Do you have a use for the shortcuts? I doubt I'd use them.
Wouldn't the shortcut be the most attractive to use generally unless you
have need for the extra capability of the full [cite:]
Richard Lawrence richard.lawre...@berkeley.edu writes:
Suppose you often write citations like:
[cite: See @Doe99, and references therein, for more.]
[...] and rendered like:
See Doe (1999), and references therein, for more.
This is slightly OT, but it comes up frequently enough that
Hi Tom and all,
Thomas S. Dye t...@tsdye.com writes:
The problem is limited to the shortcut citations and doesn't affect the
[cite: ...] form, which can be expected to work without modification
wherever it is placed IIUC.
Actually, it occurs to me now that this might even affect the [cite:
On Monday, 9 Mar 2015 at 08:44, Thomas S. Dye wrote:
[...]
No, you have it right and clearly have a use for shortcuts. If you want
to type shortcut citations yourself, then the choice is either to accept
some kind of terminator, e.g. {}, or a restriction that citation keys
not end in
Rasmus ras...@gmx.us writes:
Richard Lawrence richard.lawre...@berkeley.edu writes:
Suppose you often write citations like:
[cite: See @Doe99, and references therein, for more.]
[...] and rendered like:
See Doe (1999), and references therein, for more.
This is slightly OT, but
Richard Lawrence richard.lawre...@berkeley.edu writes:
Oh dear, you're right. Where do that initial comma and space come from?
I guess BibLaTeX inserts them automatically? Does that happen in all
styles?
The default value is determined by \postnotedelim. So assuming spaces not
stripped
Hi Eric and all,
Eric S Fraga e.fr...@ucl.ac.uk writes:
On Monday, 9 Mar 2015 at 09:05, Richard Lawrence wrote:
Another option would be to allow clause-ending punctuation in all keys,
but introduce some kind of optional syntax to express `this key ends
No, please no! I would say that the
On Monday 09 March 2015 03:19 PM, Stefan Nobis wrote:
Vaidheeswaran C vaidheeswaran.chinnar...@gmail.com writes:
On Monday 09 March 2015 02:27 PM, Stefan Nobis wrote:
IMHO keys with lots of ??? in them are a sign of a data problem.
Therefore the author should solve the root cause.
Not
Vaidheeswaran C vaidheeswaran.chinnar...@gmail.com writes:
Believe me, if I had quick access to pandoc-hs, there would be a
ox-pandoc-citeproc already in the tree by now.
My opinion would be to perhaps not put too much energy into anything
Haskell. It's extremely annoying when you don't have
On Monday 09 March 2015 02:27 PM, Stefan Nobis wrote:
IMHO keys with lots of ??? in them are a sign of a data problem.
Therefore the author should solve the root cause.
@misc{center_for_history_and_new_media_zotero_,
title = {Zotero {Quick} {Start} {Guide}},
url =
t...@tsdye.com (Thomas S. Dye) writes:
It strikes me that basing core features of the citation syntax on
the software users happen to be using today is a bit like this--at
some point the design of the system will prove unprepared for new
developments.
I don't think this is a big problem. We
Vaidheeswaran C vaidheeswaran.chinnar...@gmail.com writes:
On Monday 09 March 2015 02:27 PM, Stefan Nobis wrote:
IMHO keys with lots of ??? in them are a sign of a data problem.
Therefore the author should solve the root cause.
Not in the specific case that I cited. The Bib entry is a
t...@tsdye.com (Thomas S. Dye) writes:
Bibtex.el is not that hard to configure. I think I have something like
this to configure FIRSTAUTHOR-YY (without the hyphen):
(setq bibtex-autokey-titlewords 0
bibtex-autokey-titlewords-stretch 0
bibtex-autokey-titleword-length 0
Richard Lawrence richard.lawre...@berkeley.edu writes:
Like I said, this seems like an edge case, and I don't see that it
is necessarily Org's responsibility to accommodate the keys produced
by Zotero in such edge cases. And there is a significant benefit to
*not* accommodating such keys:
Aloha Richard,
Richard Lawrence richard.lawre...@berkeley.edu writes:
Hi Tom and all,
t...@tsdye.com (Thomas S. Dye) writes:
As I see it, the choice boils down to the relative benefit of citation
shortcuts vs. the limitation of requiring authors to configure the
citation manager so it
t...@tsdye.com (Thomas S. Dye) writes:
Rasmus ras...@gmx.us writes:
Nicolas Goaziou m...@nicolasgoaziou.fr writes:
I'm asking because I haven't fully grasped uses for the shorthand. What
is the use case?
More readable, I guess.
I agree. In time, org-reftex would insert @key if no
Hi Tom and all,
t...@tsdye.com (Thomas S. Dye) writes:
As I see it, the choice boils down to the relative benefit of citation
shortcuts vs. the limitation of requiring authors to configure the
citation manager so it doesn't produce a key ending in punctuation (or
your solution that uses
Aloha Rasmus,
Rasmus ras...@gmx.us writes:
t...@tsdye.com (Thomas S. Dye) writes:
Rasmus ras...@gmx.us writes:
Nicolas Goaziou m...@nicolasgoaziou.fr writes:
I'm asking because I haven't fully grasped uses for the shorthand. What
is the use case?
More readable, I guess.
I agree. In
On Saturday 07 March 2015 10:39 PM, Richard Lawrence wrote:
So what if Zotero
sometimes produces keys like this? So what if a LaTeX document will
compile with such keys? Is it your position that that means Org keys
must allow punctuation at the end?
Yes. Nicolas is implementing the parser.
Vaidheeswaran C vaidheeswaran.chinnar...@gmail.com writes:
On Friday 06 March 2015 11:39 PM, Richard Lawrence wrote:
Hi Vaidheeswaran,
Vaidheeswaran C vaidheeswaran.chinnar...@gmail.com writes:
The following combination works when passed through the LaTeX/PDF
exporter. It doesn't work
Aloha all,
Vaidheeswaran C vaidheeswaran.chinnar...@gmail.com writes:
If key-ending punctuation turns out to be common, I would revise
this opinion, but at the moment I don't see the need.
I am not imagining things. I am pointing out how existing tools
behave.
Am I right that key-ending
Hello,
t...@tsdye.com (Thomas S. Dye) writes:
Am I right that key-ending punctuation is a potential problem for the
shorthand part of the syntax and not for the full [cite: ...] syntax?
Exactly. If key-ending punctuation is required, we might have to drop
shortcuts (i.e. [@key] and @key).
At
Nicolas Goaziou m...@nicolasgoaziou.fr writes:
I'm asking because I haven't fully grasped uses for the shorthand. What
is the use case?
More readable, I guess.
I agree. In time, org-reftex would insert @key if no notes are
requested at the time of insertion.
—Rasmus
--
Dung makes an
Rasmus ras...@gmx.us writes:
Nicolas Goaziou m...@nicolasgoaziou.fr writes:
I'm asking because I haven't fully grasped uses for the shorthand. What
is the use case?
More readable, I guess.
I agree. In time, org-reftex would insert @key if no notes are
requested at the time of
Nicolas Goaziou m...@nicolasgoaziou.fr writes:
Richard Lawrence richard.lawre...@berkeley.edu writes:
I dropped the second underscore when I was writing the grammar. Thanks,
Vaisheeswaran, for noticing. Nicolas, IMO we should update the parser
to allow underscores in keys (including at the
On Friday 06 March 2015 04:19 PM, Nicolas Goaziou wrote:
Richard Lawrence richard.lawre...@berkeley.edu writes:
I dropped the second underscore when I was writing the grammar. Thanks,
Vaisheeswaran, for noticing. Nicolas, IMO we should update the parser
to allow underscores in keys
Richard Lawrence richard.lawre...@berkeley.edu writes:
I dropped the second underscore when I was writing the grammar. Thanks,
Vaisheeswaran, for noticing. Nicolas, IMO we should update the parser
to allow underscores in keys (including at the final character, I
guess).
Done in
Hi Vaidheeswaran,
Vaidheeswaran C vaidheeswaran.chinnar...@gmail.com writes:
The following combination works when passed through the LaTeX/PDF
exporter. It doesn't work when the cite syntax is switched to the new
one.
\cite{center_for_history_and_new_media_zotero_}
Is that a realistic
Rasmus ras...@gmx.us writes:
This is also not captured: [cite:@Röntgen]. Why limit
org-element--citation-key-re to a-z?
Done in 8c941008e0aaf958bdc6ae2cc7dfcbe3fd967b92.
While we're at it, as you noticed already, bare citation keys take
precedence over subscript. So, basically, one can never
Nicolas Goaziou m...@nicolasgoaziou.fr writes:
While we're at it, as you noticed already, bare citation keys take
precedence over subscript. So, basically, one can never add subscript to
a word starting with @.
At the bare minimum, we should introduce an entity to generate @
(e.g. \At) so
On Friday, 6 Mar 2015 at 18:55, Rasmus wrote:
My gut feeling tells me that scripts are more important than citations.
My gut agrees with yours on this.
However, the precedence for citations is only for words starting with @
so this should not pose a problem generally. I cannot remember ever
On Friday 06 March 2015 11:39 PM, Richard Lawrence wrote:
Hi Vaidheeswaran,
Vaidheeswaran C vaidheeswaran.chinnar...@gmail.com writes:
The following combination works when passed through the LaTeX/PDF
exporter. It doesn't work when the cite syntax is switched to the new
one.
1. Visit http://www.amazon.in/How-Read-Book-Touchstone-book/dp/0671212095
2. Add it to Zotero.
3. Export My Library to BibTeX format.
4. The attached file -- My Library 1.bib -- is what I get.
When I import the above .bib file to JabRef GUI, the keys that are
reported are \cite{adler_how_1972},
1. Visit http://www.amazon.in/How-Read-Book-Touchstone-book/dp/0671212095
2. Add it to Zotero.
3. Export My Library to BibTeX format.
4. The attached file -- My Library 1.bib -- is what I get.
When I import the above .bib file to JabRef GUI, the keys that are
reported are \cite{adler_how_1972},
On Thursday 05 March 2015 12:00 AM, Rasmus wrote:
Hi,
Vaidheeswaran C vaidheeswaran.chinnar...@gmail.com writes:
1. Visit http://www.amazon.in/How-Read-Book-Touchstone-book/dp/0671212095
2. Add it to Zotero.
3. Export My Library to BibTeX format.
4. The attached file -- My Library 1.bib
On Thursday 05 March 2015 12:31 AM, Rasmus wrote:
Vaidheeswaran C vaidheeswaran.chinnar...@gmail.com writes:
I am complaining about how org-element.el behaves.
This [cite:@adler_how_1972] becomes this:
Oh, you are right. _ is only allowed as the first character, as you
probably saw.
Also, Zotero items are typically identified by [library-ID]_[item-key]
hashes with an underscore separator.
Christian
Rasmus writes:
Vaidheeswaran C vaidheeswaran.chinnar...@gmail.com writes:
I am complaining about how org-element.el behaves.
This [cite:@adler_how_1972] becomes this:
Hi,
Vaidheeswaran C vaidheeswaran.chinnar...@gmail.com writes:
1. Visit http://www.amazon.in/How-Read-Book-Touchstone-book/dp/0671212095
2. Add it to Zotero.
3. Export My Library to BibTeX format.
4. The attached file -- My Library 1.bib -- is what I get.
When I import the above .bib file
Vaidheeswaran C vaidheeswaran.chinnar...@gmail.com writes:
I am complaining about how org-element.el behaves.
This [cite:@adler_how_1972] becomes this:
Oh, you are right. _ is only allowed as the first character, as you
probably saw. See http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/95609.
Hi Rasmus and all,
Rasmus ras...@gmx.us writes:
Vaidheeswaran C vaidheeswaran.chinnar...@gmail.com writes:
I am complaining about how org-element.el behaves.
Oh, you are right. _ is only allowed as the first character, as you
probably saw. See
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