Re: [O] Restoring the org-freemind-to-org-mode function

[Vaidheeswaran C]

Nicolas Goaziou <m...@nicolasgoaziou.fr> writes:

> Hello,
>
> Vaidheeswaran C <vaidheeswaran.chinnar...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Note: I would like to ensure that the file moves out of it's current
>> obscure place in contrib/lisp of Orgmode to a more visible place like
>> GNU ELPA before I expend any efforts on improving it.
>
> I have no objection to this.

Thanks.

Re: [O] Restoring the org-freemind-to-org-mode function

[Vaidheeswaran C]

Mark Edgington  writes:

> I have in the past used the org-freemind-to-org-mode function, which
> is no longer included in org-mode.  It used to be part of
> org-freemind.el file (see
> http://orgmode.org/w/org-mode.git?p=org-mode.git;a=blob_plain;f=lisp/org-freemind.el;hb=8f49547aaf0f9396f2a0bcfb25ce2c33be5e91fd
> ).
>
> I have since tried this function, and it does still work, so I am
> wondering if we could add it back into the org-mode source tree.  I am
> attaching a stripped-down version of org-freemind.el in which most of
> the code that is irrelevant to org-freemind-to-org-mode has been
> removed.

I have approached emacs-devel and volunteered to move the file to GNU
ELPA (and maintain the file from there).

Note: I would like to ensure that the file moves out of it's current
obscure place in contrib/lisp of Orgmode to a more visible place like
GNU ELPA before I expend any efforts on improving it.

[O] An Experiment: Wikipedia to Org

[Vaidheeswaran C]

I am working on an html to org exporter.  As an experiment, I tried
passing a Wikipedia article to it.

Here is an HTML snippet.

.

  
[
8
]

  


Here is the corresponding Org translation.

.^{[[cite_note-FOOTNOTEGethin199827.E2.80.9328.2C_73.E2.80.9374-10][[8]]]}

My question is, GIVEN the above Org-snippet would it possible to improve
the `org-element-parse-buffer' so that it's output matches with the HTML
input.

Just an experiment ...What do you think?

Re: [O] use bookmark/boomark+ to boomark org-id's ?

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Friday 17 July 2015 11:42 AM, Xebar Saram wrote:
 Hi all
 
 After discussing this with the use boomark+ (who dosent use org..go figure
 ;-)) he suggested i take this question to the orgmode list.

Many Old timers.

Look at org-ctags.  Just revise what gets tagged.

;; 3. You run the following from the command line (all 1 line):
;;
;;  ctags --langdef=orgmode --langmap=orgmode:.org
;;--regex-orgmode=/([^]+)/\1/d,definition/
;;  -f /your/path/TAGS -e -R /your/path/*.org

Re: [O] use bookmark/boomark+ to boomark org-id's ?

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Friday 17 July 2015 11:42 AM, Xebar Saram wrote:
 Hi all
 
 After discussing this with the use boomark+ (who dosent use org..go figure
 ;-)) he suggested i take this question to the orgmode list. Does anyone
 use/know how to bookmark orgmode ids and not just location in a file? i
 find that bookmarking locations is very un-reliable as i keep adding new
 content to my org files and the position of headers keep changing
 
 is there any other alternatives people use to quickly jump to specific org
 files and locations?
 
 best regards
 
 Z
 

org-id, IIRC, has a cache of some sort.  Just look around
org-id-update-id-locations.



A typical bookmark, has the following structure.

(#1=Re_use_bookmarkboomark_to_boomark_org-ids__1437118847606.eml
(filename .
/tmp/Re_use_bookmarkboomark_to_boomark_org-ids__1437118847606.eml)
(front-context-string . org-id, IIRC, ha)
(rear-context-string . ards\n \n Z\n \n\n)
(position . 800)
(defaults - #1#))


You have to modify `bookmark-make-record-function', so that it a
returns a record that contains just what you want: filename and
front-context-string (which will hold the ID).  No need to store the
the position in the record.



I still think that bookmark is not what you want.  I have trouble
imagining how your system works.

Re: [O] HTML/images zipped?

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Friday 26 June 2015 06:40 PM, Peter Davis wrote:
 Is there any way to export HTML with all references images,
 etc. packaged in a ZIP file?

This is EPUB format (more or less).

Re: [O] How do I specify the font attributes in org - odt exports?

[Vaidheeswaran C]

The specific sequence of steps you need to follow) are documented in
the Org manual.  Note that the node mentions 'Stylist'. (Search for it
in LibreOffice help)

See

https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/org/Applying-custom-styles.html

If you have further SPECIFIC questions (and if it is of wider
interest), I can help.



That said, if I were you, I would talk to the University
librarian/archivist and suggest/insist that THEY provide LibreOffice
templates that ALL students can use.  Talking to them is a good way to
let them know that some (and hopefully more and more) of their
students rely on Free Software tools like LibreOffice.



On Monday 15 June 2015 07:55 AM, Kaushal wrote:
 Hi,
 
 
 I require the ox-odt package and I set this variable to export to doc (MS
 Word 97) format by default:
 
 
 (setq org-odt-preferred-output-format doc)
 
 
 I have to do this as I need to submit a paper in Word. The export works
 fine but can someone help me how to write the style ott/xml file so that
 the export to .doc adheres to the below rules?
 
 
 
 Title Page (must fit on first page only):
 
 Title (bold, centered) – *Times New Roman 18 pt*
 
 Author Names (centered) - Times New Roman 16 pt
 
 Company/Location/Country/Website (centered) - Times New Roman 14 pt
 
 Abstract (left-justified; italicized; not to exceed 150 words) – Times New
 Roman 12 pt
 
 
 
 Table of Contents/Figures/Tables*:
 
 Header (bold, centered): *Times New Roman 14 pt*
 
 Listing (left-justified): Times New Roman 12 pt
 
  Body Page and Margins:
 
 -  One-inch margins; top, bottom, right and left
 
 -  No headers
 
 -  Chapter headings (numbered, bold, left justified): *Times New
 Roman 14 pt*
 
 -  Chapter body (left justified): Times New Roman 12 pt
 
 References (numbered): Times New Roman 11 pt
 
 -  Use embedded footer, Times New Roman 12 pt (Update ‘Paper Title’)
 
 -  Script/code examples: Courier New 12 pt
 
 --
 Kaushal Modi
 

Re: [O] ox-texinfo: Link to dedicated to target doesn't work

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Saturday 30 May 2015 01:49 PM, Nicolas Goaziou wrote:
 Vaidheeswaran C vaidheeswaran.chinnar...@gmail.com writes:
 
  A canonical DESCRIPTION is NOT available.  (YET) The ANCHOR should
  still get through to the `texi' file, right?
 We can replace a silly behaviour with another silly one, yes. But is
 there any non-silly one?

Displaying a silly link is a call for an action (to fix).  So, from
fixability perspective, having a silly anchor is better than pruning
it from output.

  This is the output I see in other backends (that support anchors).
 
HTML:
 
p
Jump to a href=#orgtarget1No description for this link/a.
/p
 The example above is a bit misleading because a description is not
 mandatory. In your situation, Option num:t would be sufficient to
 produce something.

I understand that the error is in the OPTIONs that I have and I need
to fix the Org file.  Your argument is sound.  (BUT) Having some
feedback that something is amisss is always desirable.

LaTeX:
 
Jump to \ref{orgtarget1}.
 If you look at it, this will not appear in the (PDF) output as there's
 nothing to refer to, much like what happens in ox-texinfo.

I see a red box (which is an urgent call for action).

 In any case, what exactly do you suggest in this situation, i.e., what
 should be displayed?

How about @ref{orgtarget1}?



ps: I can send in fixes.  I have a copyright assignment.  WDYT?

Re: [O] jabref like orgmode based solution to bibliography management (not for latex)

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Saturday 30 May 2015 01:50 PM, Xebar Saram wrote:

 4. this one is important: a way to quickly export selected references in
 word/odf/html based on a pre fixed style (ie  Nature, Chicago etc)

You may have to move to new citation syntax on my private repo.

See http://repo.or.cz/w/org-mode/org-cv.git

The example org and odt files are available in this post:
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2015-03/msg00451.html
The documentation is in ox-jabref.el

If you report issues, I will address them promptly.

[O] ox-texinfo: Xref are not typeset properly

[Vaidheeswaran C]

Nicolas, (Delayed) Thanks for your (other) fixes.  I will respond to
those separately.  Meanwhile...

This mail comes in two parts

a) A bug
b) A request



Bug
===

ox-texinfo:  Xref are not typeset properly

See attached files.



Request
===

(May be?) Put *Org INFO Texinfo Output* in `compilation-mode'.

\input texinfo@c -*- texinfo -*-
@c %**start of header
@setfilename ./emacsprimer.info
@settitle 
@documentencoding UTF-8
@documentlanguage en
@c %**end of header

@finalout
@titlepage
@title 
@end titlepage

@ifnottex
@node Top
@top 
@end ifnottex

@menu
* Figure::
* Link to Figure::
@end menu

@node Figure
@unnumbered Figure

@image{./images/emacs-24.5.1-startup-screen-annotatedpng}

@node Link to Figure
@unnumbered Link to Figure

@ref{orgparagraph1,,1}

@bye

emacsprimer.org
Description: Lotus Organizer
;;; -*- mode: compilation; -*-
~/src/emacsprimer/emacsprimer.texi:16: warning: Must specify a title with least 
one of @settitle or @top.
~/src/emacsprimer/emacsprimer.texi:32: Cross reference to nonexistent node 
`orgparagraph1' (perhaps incorrect sectioning?).
makeinfo: Removing output file `./emacsprimer/index.html' due to errors; use 
--force to preserve.

[O] ox-texinfo: Link to dedicated to target doesn't work

[Vaidheeswaran C]

ox-texinfo: Link to dedicated to target doesn't work

See the attached .org and .texi file.



bug-texinfo.org
Description: Lotus Organizer
\input texinfo@c -*- texinfo -*-
@c %**start of header
@setfilename ./bug-texinfo.info
@settitle bug-texinfo
@documentencoding UTF-8
@documentlanguage en
@c %**end of header

@finalout
@titlepage
@title bug-texinfo
@end titlepage

@ifnottex
@node Top
@top bug-texinfo
@end ifnottex

@menu
* Heading 1::
@end menu



@node Heading 1
@unnumbered Heading 1

@anchor{orgtarget1}Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed
do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim
ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut
aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in
reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla
pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in
culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.


Jump to .

@bye

Re: [O] ox-texinfo: Xref are not typeset properly

[Vaidheeswaran C]

Thanks for the fixes.  I am test driving the ox-texinfo exporter.  So
the list is likely to get more bug reports from me.


On Friday 29 May 2015 03:03 PM, Nicolas Goaziou wrote:
 Hello,
 
 Vaidheeswaran C vaidheeswaran.chinnar...@gmail.com writes:
 
 Bug
 ===

 ox-texinfo:  Xref are not typeset properly

 See attached files.
 
 Fixed in 0ed99a4c8cccde1d7f5e190feda54558c1ff4188. Thank you.

 

 Request
 ===

 (May be?) Put *Org INFO Texinfo Output* in `compilation-mode'.
 
 Done in 1bd26e2d81933a05c3f97ff0d3c8cc53dd51dd3a.
 
 
 Regards,
 

Re: [O] ox-latex: includegraphics should quote filenames

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Tuesday 26 May 2015 02:32 PM, Andreas Leha wrote:
 Hi Vaidheeswaran,
 
 Vaidheeswaran C vaidheeswaran.chinnar...@gmail.com writes:
  In:
  [[./emacs-24.5.1-startup-screen-annotated.png]]
 
  Buggy Out:
 
  \includegraphics[width=.9\linewidth]{./emacs-24.5.1-startup-screen-annotated.png}
 
  Desired: Out:
 
  \includegraphics[width=.9\linewidth]{{./emacs-24.5.1-startup-screen-annotated}.png}
 
  Source:
 
  http://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/10574/includegraphics-dots-in-filename
 I agree.  Although I do not actually experience this, as my custom LaTeX
 classes all \use[ the ]package{grffile} (also in your Reference) by now.
 
 I have not experienced any problem with that package and it appears to
 handle more cases (especially spaces) than 'quoting'.  So, it might be
 an alternative to use grffile by default?

ox-latex export must work out of the box (when it can)!  Currently
inline images (that have dots in their names) are not exporting
correctly.

If someone fixes this bug (one way or the other), I will be most
grateful!

Re: [O] ox-latex: includegraphics should quote filenames

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Friday 29 May 2015 03:39 PM, Rasmus wrote:

 Okay, I'm adding grffile as it also support spaces in filenames.  Now this
 example works:

Thanks. Works for me.

Re: [O] ox-texinfo: Link to dedicated to target doesn't work

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Friday 29 May 2015 09:26 PM, Nicolas Goaziou wrote:
 Hello,
 
 Vaidheeswaran C vaidheeswaran.chinnar...@gmail.com writes:
 
 ox-texinfo: Link to dedicated to target doesn't work
 
 The behaviour is correct here.
 
 You are inserting a link to a target without a description. As in any
 export back-end, Org tries to associate it to a number, in this case,
 headline's number.

A canonical DESCRIPTION is NOT available.  (YET) The ANCHOR should
still get through to the `texi' file, right?

This is the output I see in other backends (that support anchors).

  HTML:

  p
  Jump to a href=#orgtarget1No description for this link/a.
  /p

  LaTeX:

  Jump to \ref{orgtarget1}.

[O] ox-texinfo doesn't handle inline images

[Vaidheeswaran C]

In:

#+NAME: fig1
#+CAPTION: Screen capture
[[./emacs-24.5.1-startup-screen-annotated.png]]


Buggy out:

@uref{./emacs-24.5.1-startup-screen-annotated.png}


Desired out:

 @float Figure,fig1
 @image{./emacs-24.5.1-startup-screen-annotated,150mm,,,png}
 @c @shortcaption{Screen capture}
 @caption{Screen capture.}
 @end float


Reference:


http://www.gnu.org/software/texinfo/manual/texinfo/html_node/Special-Displays.html

http://www.gnu.org/software/texinfo/manual/texinfo/html_node/Floats.html#Floats

http://www.gnu.org/software/texinfo/manual/texinfo/html_node/Images.html#Images

Additional notes:

(a) I also see no reference to @listoffloats, for example.
There is a some scope for further imporvement around these areas.

(b) Without Image width (i.e., image scaling) the image in the PDF
output gets cropped.

[O] ox-texinfo: Provide an option to open the *.info file within Emacs

[Vaidheeswaran C]

ox-texinfo:  Provide an option to open the *.info file within Emacs

The following snippet (as suggested by M-x list-command-history),
would do the needful.

(info ~/src/emacsprimer/emacsprimer.info nil)

It would also be useful if I could compile *.info document using
texi2html and texi2pdf.

[O] ox-latex: includegraphics should quote filenames

[Vaidheeswaran C]

In:
[[./emacs-24.5.1-startup-screen-annotated.png]]

Buggy Out:

\includegraphics[width=.9\linewidth]{./emacs-24.5.1-startup-screen-annotated.png}

Desired: Out:

\includegraphics[width=.9\linewidth]{{./emacs-24.5.1-startup-screen-annotated}.png}

Source:

http://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/10574/includegraphics-dots-in-filename

Re: [O] New Citation syntax on the master branch?

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Sunday 17 May 2015 01:48 PM, Nicolas Goaziou wrote:

 How about making (1) a configurable option -- disabled by default --
  and moving it to trunk?
 I don't want syntax to be configurable.

Ok.

  I believe the answer depends MORE on how stable you think the new
  citation syntax is (in so far as it is implemented) and LESS on
  whether the whole ecosystem is in place.

 We can add oc-jabref (not ox-jabref, which is reserved for export
 back-ends) in a branch and have some users test it. This is the only way
 to know if the syntax is sufficient.
 
 WDYT?

I will rename the module as you suggest.  I would also like to polish
a few more things.  Unlike other contrib modules, I want this module
to be changed only by FSF-approved authors so that I can put it on GNU
ELPA.

(My future assignment is through, so the route is clear.)



While we are on this...

I would like to submit some patches to ox-odt.el.  I have plenty of
local changes (that were made on a older version of trunk).

As part of preparation for submitting my changes to Org repo,

1. I have reverted patches applied to the trunk since my change.
2. Applied my patches to (1).
3. Re-play (1) on top of 3.

Since my dis-appearance couple of months ago, there have been more
changes to ox-odt.el (which I need to replay again).

Here is a snapshot of my workarea:
http://repo.or.cz/w/org-mode/org-cv.git/shortlog. Step (1) above
corresponds to this
commit.
(http://repo.or.cz/w/org-mode/org-cv.git/commit/739ddc3b27a5a2f0b05b576f671069c868835a21)


a) I haven't updated the ODT nodes of Info manual.  I would prefer to
   update the manual AFTER the merge of elisp code.

b) Bugs if any introduced by my merge are going to be minor and IMHO,
   they could be taken up AFTER the merge.

I hope the above arrangement for merging my changes is agreeable to
the maintainers.  (Let me know what you think)

This message is more of a heads-up.  I will let you know once I am
done with (3).  Meanwhile, I would encourage the current ODT exporter
users to try out my new private repo and report any issues.

Re: [O] New Citation syntax on the master branch?

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Wednesday 13 May 2015 04:32 PM, Nicolas Goaziou wrote:
 Vaidheeswaran C vaidheeswaran.chinnar...@gmail.com writes:
 
 On Sunday 10 May 2015 12:44 PM, Nicolas Goaziou wrote:

 It will land in the trunk once a library using it for Org core is
 implemented. I put it in a separate branch so that such a library can be
 built, discussed and tested.

 1. Do you, as a maintainer, have any specific plans for this library?

1. New citation syntax is concerned with ORG SYNTAX

2. oc.el is concerned with EDITING org files.

3. ox-jabref.el (and others) is concerned with DOCUMENT CREATION.

It seems like your plan is to put 1, 2  3 ALL TOGETHER in
trunk. i.e., ALL or NONE.

How about making (1) a configurable option -- disabled by default --
and moving it to trunk?  I believe the answer depends MORE on how
stable you think the new citation syntax is (in so far as it is
implemented) and LESS on whether the whole ecosystem is in place.

Just checking one last time, before I shut up ...

Re: [O] New Citation syntax on the master branch?

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Sunday 10 May 2015 12:44 PM, Nicolas Goaziou wrote:

 It will land in the trunk once a library using it for Org core is
 implemented. I put it in a separate branch so that such a library can be
 built, discussed and tested.

1. Do you, as a maintainer, have any specific plans for this library?

2. What conditions should such a library satisfy in order that it is
   considered a candidate.

3. Are there any contenders for this library at this moment. For
   example, is ox-jabref.el a contender for this library. If No, on
   what counts it fails to get through the gate.

[O] New Citation syntax on the master branch?

[Vaidheeswaran C]

New citation syntax, is it in the trunk yet?.

If No, under what conditions will it land in the trunk.

I am thinking of stashing away my ox-jabref.el in to GNU ELPA. If the
citation syntax is only an EXPERIMENTAL feature with no certainty
about it's mainstream availability or maturity, then my plans for
ox-jabref.el is a non-starter.

Just checking...

[O] New Citation Syntax, ODT JabRef: Now supports Multicites, Prefix/Suffixes and Textual/Parenthetical styles

[Vaidheeswaran C]

JabRef exporter now supports:

a) Multicites
b) Prefixes and Suffixes
c) Textual and Parenthetical styles.
d) Numeric and Footnote type styles.

I am attaching sample files.



Repo Browse URL is http://repo.or.cz/w/org-mode/org-cv.git.  Checkout
URL is git://repo.or.cz/org-mode/org-cv.git.



With the above changes, I am essentially halting my work on this
exporter.  Any futher changes will be on need basis.  Don't
hesistate to write to me with enhancement request or complaints.  I
will take a break from this mailing list.


cite-chicago-author-date.odt
Description: application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text


cite-chicago-full-note.odt
Description: application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text


cite.org
Description: Lotus Organizer


cite-numeric.odt
Description: application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text

Re: [O] Multicite syntax

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Sunday 08 March 2015 09:58 PM, Nicolas Goaziou wrote:
 Agreed. I introduced yet another syntax change in wip-cite branch.
 
 Now there are two separate objects citation and citation-reference.
 So the following multicite 
 
   [cite:prefix; pre @a post; @b]
 
 is parsed like
 
   (citation (:prefix prefix :parenthetical nil) 
(citation-reference (:key a :prefix pre :suffix post))
(citation-reference (:key b)))

I have pushed the corresponding changes to
http://repo.or.cz/w/org-mode/org-cv.git.  The pull URL is
git://repo.or.cz/org-mode/org-cv.git.

I am attaching sample files for inspection.


cite-chicago-author-date.odt
Description: application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text


cite-chicago-full-note.odt
Description: application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text


cite.org
Description: Lotus Organizer


cite-numeric.odt
Description: application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text

Re: [O] Citation syntax: Underscore MUST(?) be allowed in cite keys?

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Monday 09 March 2015 03:19 PM, Stefan Nobis wrote:
 Vaidheeswaran C vaidheeswaran.chinnar...@gmail.com writes:
 
 On Monday 09 March 2015 02:27 PM, Stefan Nobis wrote:
 
 IMHO keys with lots of ??? in them are a sign of a data problem.
 Therefore the author should solve the root cause.
 
 Not in the specific case that I cited. The Bib entry is a pointer to
 a website.
 
 I would say, even a website needs a date (in this case: date last
 seen). :)
 
 IMHO here you are mixing two different things: We already talked about
 direct support for Zotero as a backend, CSL etc. Therefore exporting
 to bibtex is not a requirement. 

When you say requirement, it is a good idea to say requirement to
which parties or requirement in which context.

I am running Debian Squeeze.  The pandoc that gets bundled with this
debian version doesn't support citeproc stuff.  IIRC, to upgrade to
recent pandoc I would have to update one of the core haskell
libraries.  I am reluctant to upgrade my debian.  Believe me, if I had
quick access to pandoc-hs, there would be a ox-pandoc-citeproc already
in the tree by now.  (No I am not joking.)

The spririt of Free Software (and definitely Emacs) is to ACCOMODATE
MULTIPLE SIMULTANEOUS implementations of same functionality.  One good
example is a todo-mode.el (which ships by default on Emacs).  I would
venture to say, obsoleting a package is taboo.

By saying bibtex is not a requirement, I hope you don't mean to
imply that bibtex users are any less blessed or less holy or that
their needs wouldn't be readily catered to.

(My intention is NOT to fight with you.  I am merely emphasizing that
pandoc/haskell is a recent development and there are some practical
problems associated with making THIS CUTTING EDGE package a
REQUIREMENT that other ORG USERS MUST depend on.  You can call me a
lazy bum!)

 Maybe the best way is to add a new export module to Zotero for even
 better org integration and handle correct keys in this module?
 
 IMHO it's the job of the citation manager to generate sane keys, not
 the job of org to accept arbitrary keys.
 
 If you had shared how I can configure Zotero to leave out the
 question marks that would have been the most helpful comment from
 your side.
 
 I'm not a Zotero expert, I even don't use it. But with a quick look at
 Google I found this:
 
   http://curiousjason.com/zoterotobibtex.html
 
 (in the Firefox profile there is a configuration file
 zotero/translators/BibTeX.js that needs to be edited; the above source
 is from 2010 - maybe today there is a GUI to edit this setting).

Thanks.

Re: [O] Citation syntax: a revised proposal

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Monday 09 March 2015 04:10 PM, Sebastien Vauban wrote:
 What is ...?

(info (org) Radio targets)

Re: [O] Citation syntax: Underscore MUST(?) be allowed in cite keys?

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Monday 09 March 2015 02:27 PM, Stefan Nobis wrote:

 IMHO keys with lots of ??? in them are a sign of a data problem.
 Therefore the author should solve the root cause.

@misc{center_for_history_and_new_media_zotero_,
title = {Zotero {Quick} {Start} {Guide}},
url = {http://zotero.org/support/quick_start_guide},
author = {{Center for History and New Media}},
annote = {Welcome to Zotero!View the Quick Start Guide to learn how to
begin collecting, managing, citing, and sharing your research
sources.Thanks for installing Zotero.}
}

Not in the specific case that I cited.  The Bib entry is a pointer to
a website.  Insisting on a YEAR field for a website address seems a
bit absurd to me.  The problem is not the data problem but the
problem could be in the the inherent nature of the object that is
cited.

My argument is: Stock LaTeX exporter does it, so Org should also
follow suit.  This argument is difficult to beat without resorting to
vague generalities and hand waves.

When I discuss a problem with a specific example, I would like the
participants to pay attention to the DETAILS of the specific example
and make their comments relevant to the example being discussed.

If you had shared how I can configure Zotero to leave out the question
marks that would have been the most helpful comment from your side.

Anyways

Re: [O] Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Monday 09 March 2015 12:04 PM, Thomas S. Dye wrote:

 I'm happy to have you here and look forward to your contributions to Org
 mode. I hope you enjoy the community as much as I do.  I think Org mode
 rocks.

Thanks a lot.

Re: [O] Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Sunday 08 March 2015 11:04 PM, Thomas S. Dye wrote:

 Thankfully, Richard demonstrated to his satisfaction that an
 off-the-shelf CSL style could be made to handle this situation.  If this
 is the only potential problem you see, then this gives me hope that
 Richard will succeed in implementing an Org mode interface for an
 appropriate csl-based tool.

Do you share your good-will and words of encouragement equally to all
participants?  Say something cheerful to me (about me).

Re: [O] Multicite syntax

[Vaidheeswaran C]

I have fixed up ox-jabref.el to support multicites.  Only common
prefixes and suffixes are handled.  I don't know how to handle per-key
prefix/suffix-es.  If someone has any complaints about the output,
please write to me.

Attaching files that I have used for testing.  (Author-Date file lacks
year because of a bug in Chicago filters bundled with JabRef. JabRef
style file uses 'year' field but biblatex-examples.bib provides only a
'date' field.)





On Sunday 08 March 2015 11:59 AM, Vaidheeswaran C wrote:
 
 Note that, as a consequence, the new object is incompatible with the
 previous one, since every citation is a multi-cite citation. See
 commit message for details.
 
 Just a quick feedback.
 
   (:parenthetical nil :begin 807 :post-blank 0 :end 843 :references
 ((:key wilde :prefix nil :suffix nil)
  (:key moore :prefix nil :suffix nil)
  (:key westfahl:space :prefix nil :suffix nil))
 :parent #3#)
 
 Having a plist for `reference' as opposed to a an Element proper gives
 me cognitive dissonance.
 
 How about replacing this
 
 (:key wilde :prefix nil :suffix nil)
 
 with this instead
 
 (reference :key wilde :prefix nil :suffix nil :parent )
  ^^
 
 Each `reference' is transcoded to it's contents in it's own right in
 ox-jabref.
 
 (a) Batch export all cites.
 
 In case of citeproc-java it would be batch export each multicite.
 http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2015-03/msg00262.html)
 
 (b) Map `reference' to `contents' with transcoding being done by the
 citation command line.
 
 Please confirm whether this change request is possible or not.
 
 
 
 You may also want to replace `citaiton' with a `citation-cluster'(or a
 multicite) and replace `reference' with a `citation'.
 
 In effect, a citation-cluster (or a multicite) is one or more
 citaitons.
 
 
 
 
 



cite-chicago-fullnote.odt
Description: application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text


cite-numeric.odt
Description: application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text


cite.org
Description: Lotus Organizer


cite-chicago-author-date.odt
Description: application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text

Re: [O] Citation syntax: Underscore MUST(?) be allowed in cite keys?

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Saturday 07 March 2015 10:39 PM, Richard Lawrence wrote:
 So what if Zotero
 sometimes produces keys like this?  So what if a LaTeX document will
 compile with such keys?  Is it your position that that means Org keys
 must allow punctuation at the end?

Yes.  Nicolas is implementing the parser.  Go or no-go would be his
call though.

Re: [O] Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations

[Vaidheeswaran C]

 I'm asking because the developers who contribute their effort to Org
 mode are, IMHO, extremely talented and experienced programmers.  IIUC,
 they are also busy with other projects (some of which hopefully make
 them some money!), so I think it would help them if you could document
 the problem you've identified.

I am also busy with other projects that make me some money.

Re: [O] Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Saturday 07 March 2015 10:18 PM, Richard Lawrence wrote:
 (b) producing a csl-based tool that ORG CAN INTERFACE WITH that
  produces in-text AND parenthetical styles.
 Actually, I am working on exactly that.  I will post here when I've got
 something to share.

That will be a big first step.  I am only highlighting the gaps in
what has surfaced so far.

[O] Citeproc-java: Batch processing of citations

[Vaidheeswaran C]

Michel

I am investigating the possibility of using citeproc-java within
Emacs/Org-mode[1].  citeproc-java is easy to use and is quite
promising.  Will you be open to making some enhancements that would
enable BATCH processing of citations.



With NO citation ids, generate a list of Citations for all the keys
.bib database.

# citeproc-java -s chicago-author-date -b ~/biblatex-examples.bib -f html -c
(n.d.)
(Gerhardt 2000)
(Knuth 1986)
(Knuth 1986a)
(Knuth 1986b)
(Knuth 1984)
(Knuth 1986c)
(Aristotle 1877)
(Nussbaum 1978)



Allow `-c' option to take a bunch of multicites as below.

# citeproc-java -s chicago-author-date -b ~/biblatex-examples.bib -f
  html -c westfahl:space,wilde worman,yoon sorace

(Westfahl, n.d.; Wilde 1899)
(Worman 2002; Yoon et al. 2006)
(Sorace, Reinhardt, and Vaughn 1997)



Include a `-f' option where a subset of keys (that ACTUALLY occur in a
Org document) are specified.  Think of `-f' as a filtered list of
keys.



[1] http://Orgmode.org

Re: [O] Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Sunday 08 March 2015 09:29 AM, Thomas S. Dye wrote:

 Is your doubt about his eventual success founded in a general
 skepticism about predicting the future (certainly warranted),
 or in some particular knowledge about the difficulty of the task?

I have no such doubt or skepticism.

 If the latter, perhaps you could help Richard avoid potential
 problems?

I would replace you with we.

What I had in my palm is out on the table.  What have you in your
palms concerning in text and parenthetical styles in CSL.

[O] Multicite syntax

[Vaidheeswaran C]

 Note that, as a consequence, the new object is incompatible with the
 previous one, since every citation is a multi-cite citation. See
 commit message for details.

Just a quick feedback.

  (:parenthetical nil :begin 807 :post-blank 0 :end 843 :references
  ((:key wilde :prefix nil :suffix nil)
   (:key moore :prefix nil :suffix nil)
   (:key westfahl:space :prefix nil :suffix nil))
  :parent #3#)

Having a plist for `reference' as opposed to a an Element proper gives
me cognitive dissonance.

How about replacing this

(:key wilde :prefix nil :suffix nil)

with this instead

(reference :key wilde :prefix nil :suffix nil :parent )
 ^^

Each `reference' is transcoded to it's contents in it's own right in
ox-jabref.

(a) Batch export all cites.

In case of citeproc-java it would be batch export each multicite.
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2015-03/msg00262.html)

(b) Map `reference' to `contents' with transcoding being done by the
citation command line.

Please confirm whether this change request is possible or not.



You may also want to replace `citaiton' with a `citation-cluster'(or a
multicite) and replace `reference' with a `citation'.

In effect, a citation-cluster (or a multicite) is one or more
citaitons.

Re: [O] Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Sunday 08 March 2015 03:01 AM, Thomas S. Dye wrote:
 Aloha Vaidheeswaran C,
 
 (Bringing the conversation back on list.)
 
 Vaidheeswaran C vaidheeswaran.chinnar...@gmail.com writes:
 
 Richard understood the point I was making.  When you have time,
 compare how you responded with how he responded.  You can learn a
 thing or two from Richard.
 
 I've learned many things from Richard!
 
 I've also taken your suggestion to compare our responses to the doubts
 you raised, which IIUC have now been resolved.  Richard guided us
 through the inquiry needed to resolve your doubts.  In contrast, I tried
 to guide you to the inquiry.  Either way, I think the doubts would have
 been resolved.

Richard in this message admitted that he is yet to familiarize himself
with CSL styles and that there are some loose ends that he hopes to
fill.  (See
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2015-03/msg00253.html)

My doubts stay and my questions (however pointed they may be) are on
topic.

 All the best,
 Tom
 

Re: [O] Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations

[Vaidheeswaran C]

I think the post-processor type tool is what would give the most
capabilities.  The citations produced depends on the context.  (For
example, is it a second refernce to an earlier occurrence etc.  Is
this an Ibid stuff etc.)  JabRef and Citeproc-java cannot do that.

My suggestion, people take A tool and evaluate it in terms of a
feature matrix.

On Friday 06 March 2015 08:25 PM, Rasmus wrote:
 Vaidheeswaran C vaidheeswaran.chinnar...@gmail.com writes:
 
 Does biblatex integrate with CSL engine?
 
 I don't think so.
 
 I sense a lot of enthusiasm to use CSL styles.
 
 It has good support outside of LaTeX, e.g. Mendely and Zotero.
 
 I'm not sure Bibtex is easily supported on these formats, maybe 'cause
 it's a postprocessor, though e.g. tex4ht manages to produce citation in
 xml-like documents.  I believe latexml also has some support for bibtex in
 xml-like documents.  I don't know much about these cases.
 
 —Rasmus
 

Re: [O] Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations

[Vaidheeswaran C]

I got the subject and also text wrong. (But I hope my intention was
clear.) I am really looking for EXISTING in-text CSL styles.



On Friday 06 March 2015 07:27 PM, Rasmus wrote:
 Hi,
 
 Vaidheeswaran C vaidheeswaran.chinnar...@gmail.com writes:
 
 
 Maybe this:

   
 https://github.com/citation-style-language/styles/blob/master/chicago-author-date.csl

 I have looked at this style file and I have even written a CSL macro
 for this file.  Please tell me how would I create parenthetical styles
 with this CSL file.
 
 I haven't tested this as I'm using bibtex for my own work.  But with
 citeproc-java you should be able to do something like:
 
   citeproc-java -b references.bib -s chicago-author-date -c Fowler_2010 
 Kisker_2012 
 
 To get something like (Fowler 2010; Kisker 2012).
 
 The question now is: Who types the author name.  The style file
 suppresses the author and it would mean the document author types it,
 right?
 
 My interpretation of the text is if you want 'A (Y)' I will type '(Y)'
 but you will have to type 'A' — manually(!).
 
 However, if you could combine styles you could just switch the '-s' argument
 when calling citeproc-java (or a compatible tool).
 
 So what toolchain are we looking at.  How good we know these
 toolchains to actually integrate Org-mode with it?
 
 Last resort you could import all references as org-bibtex entries and use
 some tool to format information from this.  It's much nicer to rely on an
 external tool for this, though.
 
 —Rasmus
 

Re: [O] Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Friday 06 March 2015 07:27 PM, Rasmus wrote:
 Last resort you could import all references as org-bibtex entries and use
 some tool to format information from this.  It's much nicer to rely on an
 external tool for this, though.

We are talking about 100 options -- JabRef, Citeproc-java, org-bibtex,
biblatex -- all at the same time.  Is it really difficult to fix one
toolset and knock that option once and for all.  Too many options will
lead only to confusion and a delayed progress.

Re: [O] Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Friday 06 March 2015 06:33 PM, Vaidheeswaran C wrote:
 I am trying to locate a Zotero csl file that produces parenthetical
 style -- Author (Date) -- for citations[1].  The primer[2] uses the
 term in-text to refer to what this mailing list has been designating
 as parenthetical style.
 
 I want to see an off-the-shelf csl style file, that uses
 parenthetical style.
 
 [1] https://www.zotero.org/styles
 [2] http://docs.citationstyles.org/en/latest/primer.html#in-text-styles

When I say this, I am really asking for counter-example. If
parenthetical styles aren't hard to create and if they are absent from
style repo, I would consider it conspicuous by absence.  What
grounds would justify such a notable absence.

If an off-the-shelf csl file doesn't produce parenthetical styles, how
would a Org user go about producing parenthetical styles.  As I said
before, I am approaching this whole thread from a tools
perspective.

Re: [O] Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Friday 06 March 2015 06:59 PM, Rasmus wrote:
 Vaidheeswaran C vaidheeswaran.chinnar...@gmail.com writes:
 
 I am approaching this whole thread from a tools perspective.
 
 https://www.ctan.org/pkg/biblatex
 http://www.ctan.org/pkg/biblatex-chicago
 http://www.ctan.org/pkg/biblatex-apa
 http://www.ctan.org/pkg/natbib
 http://www.ctan.org/pkg/chicago
 http://www.ctan.org/pkg/harvard
 

Does biblatex integrate with CSL engine?  I sense a lot of enthusiasm
to use CSL styles.  If biblatex works with CSL it would be wonderful.

Re: [O] Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Friday 06 March 2015 06:59 PM, Rasmus wrote:
 Vaidheeswaran C vaidheeswaran.chinnar...@gmail.com writes:
 
 I am approaching this whole thread from a tools perspective.
 
 https://www.ctan.org/pkg/biblatex
 http://www.ctan.org/pkg/biblatex-chicago
 http://www.ctan.org/pkg/biblatex-apa
 http://www.ctan.org/pkg/natbib
 http://www.ctan.org/pkg/chicago
 http://www.ctan.org/pkg/harvard
 

Does biblatex integrate with CSL engine?  I sense a lot of enthusiasm
to use CSL styles.  If biblatex works with CLS it would be wonderful.

[O] Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations

[Vaidheeswaran C]

I am trying to locate a Zotero csl file that produces parenthetical
style -- Author (Date) -- for citations[1].  The primer[2] uses the
term in-text to refer to what this mailing list has been designating
as parenthetical style.

I want to see an off-the-shelf csl style file, that uses
parenthetical style.

[1] https://www.zotero.org/styles
[2] http://docs.citationstyles.org/en/latest/primer.html#in-text-styles

Re: [O] Citation syntax: Underscore MUST(?) be allowed in cite keys?

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Friday 06 March 2015 04:19 PM, Nicolas Goaziou wrote:
 Richard Lawrence richard.lawre...@berkeley.edu writes:

 I dropped the second underscore when I was writing the grammar.  Thanks,
 Vaisheeswaran, for noticing.  Nicolas, IMO we should update the parser
 to allow underscores in keys (including at the final character, I
 guess).

 Done in ab7ff4034e8cd67ae5b5e2cfddfee87082228801.

The following combination works when passed through the LaTeX/PDF
exporter.  It doesn't work when the cite syntax is switched to the new
one.

\cite{center_for_history_and_new_media_zotero_}

@misc{center_for_history_and_new_media_zotero_,
title = {Zotero Quick Start Guide},
url = {http://zotero.org/support/quick_start_guide},
author = {{Center for History and New Media}},
annote = {Welcome to {Zotero!View} the Quick Start Guide to learn how
to begin collecting, managing, citing, and sharing your research
{sources.Thanks} for installing Zotero.}
}

Re: [O] Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Friday 06 March 2015 06:57 PM, Rasmus wrote:
 Vaidheeswaran C vaidheeswaran.chinnar...@gmail.com writes:
 
 I am trying to locate a Zotero csl file that produces parenthetical
 style -- Author (Date) -- for citations[1].  The primer[2] uses the
 term in-text to refer to what this mailing list has been designating
 as parenthetical style.
 
 Author-date a la biblatex have two primary calls: \texcite, e.g.  A ()
 and \parencite, e.g. (A ).  You can also cite just the author or just
 the year.

 Based on this¹ discussion, I'm not sure CSL supports both within a single
 style file.  Perhaps several CSL files could be combined to support this
 workflow, e.g. via citeproc-java's command line program.

The point is such a CSL file should exist apriori.  I am just asking
the participants to produce such a CSL file.

 I want to see an off-the-shelf csl style file, that uses
 parenthetical style.

Can someone else produce this CSL file?

 Maybe this:
 
   
 https://github.com/citation-style-language/styles/blob/master/chicago-author-date.csl

I have looked at this style file and I have even written a CSL macro
for this file.  Please tell me how would I create parenthetical styles
with this CSL file.

 ¹   http://citationstyles.org/styles/, section Suppress Author

The page says:

Suppress Author

With “author” and “author-date” styles, you might want to write
“as discussed by Doe (2002), … ” instead of “as previously
discussed (Doe, 2002)”.

While CSL styles only define complete citations, e.g. “(Doe,
2002)”, the word processor plugins of Zotero, Mendeley, and Papers
all allow you to suppress the author(s) in individual citations,
which would leave you with just “(2002)”. You then have to write
the author’s name by hand.

The question now is: Who types the author name.  The style file
suppresses the author and it would mean the document author types it,
right?

So what toolchain are we looking at.  How good we know these
toolchains to actually integrate Org-mode with it?

Re: [O] Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Friday 06 March 2015 07:27 PM, Rasmus wrote:
 My interpretation of the text is if you want 'A (Y)' I will type '(Y)'
 but you will have to type 'A' — manually(!).

The details like these are important from design stand of view.

Do people who are lobbying for integration with CSL tools paying
attention to these details and ferreting out these in front of this
forum.

Re: [O] Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Friday 06 March 2015 11:51 PM, Richard Lawrence wrote:
 Hi Vaidheeswaran,
 
 Vaidheeswaran C vaidheeswaran.chinnar...@gmail.com writes:
 
 I got the subject and also text wrong. (But I hope my intention was
 clear.) I am really looking for EXISTING in-text CSL styles.
 
 Rasmus pointed you to a relevant style: 
 
 https://github.com/citation-style-language/styles/blob/master/chicago-author-date.csl
 
 I think you might be mixing up two different distinctions.  A
 parenthetical style like this one is distinguished from, say, a
 numeric style (like the ACM styles, I think).  This distinction between
 parenthetical and numeric styles applies to the document as a whole.
 
 This distinction is orthogonal to the distinction between whether
 *individual citations* are parenthetical (like (Auth 2000)) or in-text
 (like Auth (2000)).
 
 So there is not really any such thing as an in-text CSL style.
 Rather, there are CSL styles that support both in-text and parenthetical
 citations (which is most of them, I'd guess).

Your guess is just a guess.  You haven't looked at chicago-author-date
style, have you?

You can prove yourself right by

(a) producing an off-the-shelf CSL file that uses BOTH in-text AND
parenthetical citations.

(b) producing a csl-based tool that ORG CAN INTERFACE WITH that
produces in-text AND parenthetical styles.

Re: [O] Citation syntax: Underscore MUST(?) be allowed in cite keys?

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Friday 06 March 2015 11:39 PM, Richard Lawrence wrote:
 Hi Vaidheeswaran,
 
 Vaidheeswaran C vaidheeswaran.chinnar...@gmail.com writes:
 
 The following combination works when passed through the LaTeX/PDF
 exporter.  It doesn't work when the cite syntax is switched to the new
 one.

 \cite{center_for_history_and_new_media_zotero_}
 
 Is that a realistic example of a key?

Yes.

 What program is generating it?  JabRef?

It is generated by Zotero.

 I am not too worried about this case.  

Have you tried it with \cite{} and \bibliography{} combination and
seen it works or not.  My argument relies on how existing tool works.


 I am guessing that the four ?s at the end are inserted because the
 generating program wasn't sure how to encode some characters.

I see that you haven't exporter Zotero libraries to .bib files.  My
guess is the 4 question marks are for missing (or irrelevant) 
digits.

 If key-ending punctuation turns out to be common, I would revise
 this opinion, but at the moment I don't see the need.

I am not imagining things.  I am pointing out how existing tools
behave.

Re: [O] Missing org-mode manual page: Validating OpenDocument XML

[Vaidheeswaran C]

In your init.el search for undo-tree and remove it (temporarily) Or do
M-x list-packages and uninstall the undo-tree elpa package.

loext:contextual-spacing comes from your styles file.  Find out where
the style file comes from.

If you are using Org package from non-GNU repositories, I would
strongly recommend that you install from official GNU repositories.
i.e., C-h v package-archives and remove all the non-GNU or non-Orgmode
repos.



On Wednesday 04 March 2015 07:07 PM, Will Monroe wrote:
 Thanks so much for your reply!  I think I'm getting closer to
 understanding what's happening.
 
 On 03/03/2015 10:27 PM, Vaidheeswaran C wrote:
 I am not sure what is happening.  Some suggestions:

 1. C-h v temporary-file-directory.  Check this variable, particularly
 if your are on Windows machine.

 2. Load Emacs without your custom settings.

 a) emacs -Q -L /path/to/org/library

(`-L' option not needed if org comes from your Emacs
installation.)

 b) Once Emacs is loaded, do

M-x load-library ox-odt

Note where the styles and schema files come from.
 
 After following these instructions, I got the following results in Message:
 
 ,
 | For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a.
 | Loading ox-odt...
 | Debug (ox-odt): Searching for OpenDocument styles files...
 | Debug (ox-odt): Trying /usr/share/emacs/etc/org/styles/... [2 times]
 | Debug (ox-odt): Trying /home/will/.emacs.d/etc/styles/...
 | Debug (ox-odt): Trying
 /home/will/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20150223/etc/styles/...
 | Debug (ox-odt): Using styles under
 /home/will/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20150223/etc/styles/
 | Debug (ox-odt): Searching for OpenDocument schema files...
 | Debug (ox-odt): Trying /usr/share/emacs/etc/org/schema/... [2 times]
 | Debug (ox-odt): No OpenDocument schema files installed
 | Loading ox-odt...done
 `
 
 These style files are the same ones I've used in prior exports in which
 I've seen the errors that I reported in my earlier emails.  I note the
 absence of OpenDocument schema files. As I understand it, they're aren't
 essential for the export to ODT process but are used for troubleshooting
 instead.  Perhaps I've misunderstood that though.
 
 c) Proceed with export
 
 I opened the same .org file that I'd had trouble exporting and used `C-c
 o O' to invoke export to ODT and then to prompt the file to be opened in
 LibreOffice Writer 4.2.7.2.  It opened without any of the problems I'd
 seen previously.  The Messages output is below.
 
 ,
 | LaTeX to MathML converter not available.
 | Formatting LaTeX using verbatim
 | Embedding /home/will/Dropbox/org/panopto-create-recording.png as
 Images/0001.png...
 | Wrote /tmp/odt-3818xsy/meta.xml
 | Using vacuous schema [2 times]
 | Saving file /tmp/odt-3818xsy/styles.xml...
 | Wrote /tmp/odt-3818xsy/styles.xml
 | Using vacuous schema
 | Wrote /tmp/odt-3818xsy/mimetype
 | Using vacuous schema
 | Saving file /tmp/odt-3818xsy/META-INF/manifest.xml...
 | Wrote /tmp/odt-3818xsy/META-INF/manifest.xml
 | Saving file /tmp/odt-3818xsy/content.xml...
 | Wrote /tmp/odt-3818xsy/content.xml
 | (No changes need to be saved)
 | Creating ODT file...
 | Running zip -mX0 work.odt mimetype
 | Running zip -rmTq work.odt .
 | Created /home/will/Dropbox/org/work.odt
 | Parsing archive file...done.
 | Running soffice --nologo --writer /home/will/Dropbox/org/work.odt...done
 `
 
 I noted that none of the undo-tree duplicate xml files that were cited
 as errors in the OpenDocument validator showed up.
 
 3.  I will focus on XML errors like loext:contextual-spacing etc.

  The style file used by the exporter comes from `OrgOdtStyles.xml'
  (Check messages buffer for where this file comes from).  This file
  has no such attributes.

  Which version of LibreOffice you are using?  Where did you get
  style files from?  Are you using #+ODT_STYLES_FILE option etc
 
 I'm using LibreOffice 4.2.7.2.  Although I've used style options--I
 think I just had them listed as #+OPTIONS--I removed them in earlier
 tests to see if they were causing problems.
 
 After running this test, I tried it out again with my usual
 configuration.  I got the same LibreOffice input/output errors and saw
 this in Messages:
 
 ,
 | Formatting LaTeX using verbatim
 | Embedding /home/will/Dropbox/org/panopto-create-recording.png as
 Images/0001.png...
 | Wrote /tmp/odt-37886-H/meta.xml
 | Using vacuous schema
 | Local Ispell dictionary set to american
 | Using vacuous schema
 | Local Ispell dictionary set to american
 | Saving file /tmp/odt-37886-H/styles.xml...
 | Wrote /tmp/odt-37886-H/.styles.xml.~undo-tree~
 | Wrote /tmp/odt-37886-H/styles.xml
 | Using vacuous schema
 | Local Ispell dictionary set to american
 | Wrote /tmp/odt-37886-H/mimetype
 | Using vacuous schema
 | Local Ispell dictionary set to american
 | Saving file /tmp/odt-37886-H/META-INF/manifest.xml...
 | Wrote /tmp/odt-37886-H/META-INF/.manifest.xml.~undo-tree~
 | Wrote /tmp/odt

[O] WIP: New Citation Syntax, ODT JabRef

[Vaidheeswaran C]

This is a follow up to this message:

  http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2015-03/msg00011.html



The prototype code that integrates the new Citation Syntax, ODT
exporter and JabRef citation manager is available in my personal
repo. (See http://repo.or.cz/w/org-mode/org-cv.git/)

Checkout URLs are:

  git://repo.or.cz/org-mode/org-cv.git
  http://repo.or.cz/org-mode/org-cv.git

Changes are available in master branch.  M-x find-library ox-jabref.el
and read the documentation there.



The attached files are representative of what is possible right now.

Following files are produced by varying the `:style' attribute of
#+BIBLIOGRAPHY line.

- cite-numeric.odt
- cite-chicago-full-note.odt
- cite-chicago-author-date.odt

The following file is

- cite-unfiltered-bibliography-with-abstract.odt

produced by modifying `org-jabref-citation-styles' as documented in
ox-jabref.el (and as seen in attached .emacs.)

cite.org uses the following biblatex-examples.bib:


http://mirrors.ctan.org/macros/latex/contrib/biblatex/doc/examples/biblatex-examples.bib



There is no support for parenthetical citation or multikeys as yet.  I
will flesh these out as soon as I find some time.



For a beginner like me, citaitons are indeed very confusing.  I have
found the following documents very useful:

(a) http://www.dickimaw-books.com/latex/thesis/index.html

(b) Chicago_export_filters.pdf from
http://jabref.sourceforge.net/resources.php#Chicago_Manual



Nicolas, if you are seeing this message,

(1) I want APIs for

(a) `org-odt--collect-cite-keys' (see ox-odt.el)
(b) `org-jabref--read-bibliography-attribute' and
`org-jabref--get-citation-style'.

(2) How do I specify multiple keys on the same `citation' object?



I have no specific inputs in so far as the new citation syntax is
concerned.  I have shared some of my opinions (as a user) here.

  http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2015-02/msg00783.html

TLDR of my argument is: A kindergartener (like me) producing his first
ever work that references other work should be able to get running
with minimal hassles.  I hope ox-jabref.el will cater to this low
end of the segment.



Btw, my copyright assignment request is in transit.


cite.org
Description: Lotus Organizer


cite-chicago-author-date.odt
Description: application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text


cite-chicago-full-note.odt
Description: application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text


cite-numeric.odt
Description: application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text


cite-unfiltered-bibliography-with-abstract.odt
Description: application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text
(custom-set-variables
 ;; custom-set-variables was added by Custom.
 ;; If you edit it by hand, you could mess it up, so be careful.
 ;; Your init file should contain only one such instance.
 ;; If there is more than one, they won't work right.
 '(org-jabref-citation-styles
   (quote
((odt
  (Chicago (author-date) :in-text
   (:jabref-format chicago.ODF.text :formatter Simple (but strip 
braces))
   :bibliography
   (:jabref-format chicago.ODF.abstract :dont-filter t :formatter 
Bibliography))
  (Chicago (full-note) :in-text
   (:jabref-format
(chicago.ODF.footend . chicago.ODF.footend.short)
:formatter Footnote)
   :bibliography
   (:jabref-format chicago.ODF.biblio :formatter Bibliography))
  (Numeric :in-text
   (:jabref-format Numeric :formatter Simple)
   :bibliography
   (:jabref-format chicago.ODF.reference :formatter Bibliography 
(Numbered)))
 '(org-jabref-command
   (quote
(java -jar /home/cvaidheeswaran/Downloads/JabRef-2.9.2.jar -n 
true
(custom-set-faces
 ;; custom-set-faces was added by Custom.
 ;; If you edit it by hand, you could mess it up, so be careful.
 ;; Your init file should contain only one such instance.
 ;; If there is more than one, they won't work right.
 )

[O] Citation syntax: Underscore MUST(?) be allowed in cite keys?

[Vaidheeswaran C]

1. Visit http://www.amazon.in/How-Read-Book-Touchstone-book/dp/0671212095
2. Add it to Zotero.
3. Export My Library to BibTeX format.
4. The attached file -- My Library 1.bib -- is what I get.

When I import the above .bib file to JabRef GUI, the keys that are
reported are \cite{adler_how_1972},
\cite{center_for_history_and_new_media_zotero_}.

I am a novice comes to citation.  I had a vague impression by that `_'
is not allowed in cite keys.  If we go this way, then the above
workflow will be a nightmare.


@misc{center_for_history_and_new_media_zotero_,
	title = {Zotero {Quick} {Start} {Guide}},
	url = {http://zotero.org/support/quick_start_guide},
	author = {{Center for History and New Media}},
	annote = {Welcome to Zotero!View the Quick Start Guide to learn how to begin collecting, managing, citing, and sharing your research sources.Thanks for installing Zotero.}
}

@book{adler_how_1972,
	address = {New York},
	edition = {Revised edition edition},
	title = {How to {Read} a {Book}},
	isbn = {9780671212094},
	abstract = {With half a million copies in print, How to Read a Book is the best and most successful guide to reading comprehension for the general reader, completely rewritten and updated with new material.Originally published in 1940, this book is a rare phenomenon, a living classic that introduces and elucidates the various levels of reading and how to achieve them—from elementary reading, through systematic skimming and inspectional reading, to speed reading. Readers will learn when and how to “judge a book by its cover,” and also how to X-ray it, read critically, and extract the author’s message from the text.Also included is instruction in the different techniques that work best for reading particular genres, such as practical books, imaginative literature, plays, poetry, history, science and mathematics, philosophy and social science works.Finally, the authors offer a recommended reading list and supply reading tests you can use measure your own progress in reading skills, comprehension, and speed.},
	language = {English},
	publisher = {Simon \ Schuster},
	author = {Adler, Mortimer J. and Doren, Charles Van},
	month = aug,
	year = {1972}
}

[O] Citation syntax: Underscore MUST(?) be allowed in cite keys?

[Vaidheeswaran C]

1. Visit http://www.amazon.in/How-Read-Book-Touchstone-book/dp/0671212095
2. Add it to Zotero.
3. Export My Library to BibTeX format.
4. The attached file -- My Library 1.bib -- is what I get.

When I import the above .bib file to JabRef GUI, the keys that are
reported are \cite{adler_how_1972},
\cite{center_for_history_and_new_media_zotero_}.

I am a novice comes to citation.  I had a vague impression by that `_'
is not allowed in cite keys.  If we go this way, then the above
workflow will be a nightmare.


@misc{center_for_history_and_new_media_zotero_,
	title = {Zotero {Quick} {Start} {Guide}},
	url = {http://zotero.org/support/quick_start_guide},
	author = {{Center for History and New Media}},
	annote = {Welcome to Zotero!View the Quick Start Guide to learn how to begin collecting, managing, citing, and sharing your research sources.Thanks for installing Zotero.}
}

@book{adler_how_1972,
	address = {New York},
	edition = {Revised edition edition},
	title = {How to {Read} a {Book}},
	isbn = {9780671212094},
	abstract = {With half a million copies in print, How to Read a Book is the best and most successful guide to reading comprehension for the general reader, completely rewritten and updated with new material.Originally published in 1940, this book is a rare phenomenon, a living classic that introduces and elucidates the various levels of reading and how to achieve them—from elementary reading, through systematic skimming and inspectional reading, to speed reading. Readers will learn when and how to “judge a book by its cover,” and also how to X-ray it, read critically, and extract the author’s message from the text.Also included is instruction in the different techniques that work best for reading particular genres, such as practical books, imaginative literature, plays, poetry, history, science and mathematics, philosophy and social science works.Finally, the authors offer a recommended reading list and supply reading tests you can use measure your own progress in reading skills, comprehension, and speed.},
	language = {English},
	publisher = {Simon \ Schuster},
	author = {Adler, Mortimer J. and Doren, Charles Van},
	month = aug,
	year = {1972}
}

Re: [O] Citation syntax: Underscore MUST(?) be allowed in cite keys?

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Thursday 05 March 2015 12:00 AM, Rasmus wrote:
 Hi,
 
 Vaidheeswaran C vaidheeswaran.chinnar...@gmail.com writes:
 
 1. Visit http://www.amazon.in/How-Read-Book-Touchstone-book/dp/0671212095
 2. Add it to Zotero.
 3. Export My Library to BibTeX format.
 4. The attached file -- My Library 1.bib -- is what I get.

 When I import the above .bib file to JabRef GUI, the keys that are
 reported are \cite{adler_how_1972},
 \cite{center_for_history_and_new_media_zotero_}.

 I am a novice comes to citation.  I had a vague impression by that `_'
 is not allowed in cite keys.  If we go this way, then the above
 workflow will be a nightmare.
 
 Underscore is fine.  Here's the regexp that bibtex.el uses for keys:
 
\\([][[:alnum:].:;?!`'/*@+|()_^$-]+\\)
 
 See bibtex-entry-head.

I am complaining about how org-element.el behaves.

This [cite:@adler_how_1972] becomes this:

(citation
 (:key
  #(adler 0 5
(keymap
 (keymap
  (follow-link . mouse-face)
  (mouse-3 . org-find-file-at-mouse)
  (mouse-2 . org-open-at-mouse))
 face org-link mouse-face highlight htmlize-link
 (:uri cite:@adler_how_1972)
 fontified t))
  :parentheticalp nil :begin 192 :post-blank 0 :end 214 :suffix
  (#4=(underline
   (:begin 204 :end 209 :contents-begin 205 :contents-end 208
:post-blank 0 :parent #3#)
   #(how 0 3
 (:parent #4#)))
  #(1972 0 4
(:parent #3#)))
  :parent #5#))

 Jabref is pretty solid (though I'm not at fan of how handles encoding) and
 will not produce wrong keys.
 
 Cheers,
 Rasmus
 

Re: [O] Citation syntax: Underscore MUST(?) be allowed in cite keys?

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Thursday 05 March 2015 12:31 AM, Rasmus wrote:
 Vaidheeswaran C vaidheeswaran.chinnar...@gmail.com writes:
 
 I am complaining about how org-element.el behaves.

 This [cite:@adler_how_1972] becomes this:
 
 Oh, you are right.  _ is only allowed as the first character, as you
 probably saw.  See http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/95609.
 I would tend to agree that this is problematic, but _ is itself
 problematic since it's the subscription character...  From
 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/95631 I gather that key
 support is modeled after Pandoc, but AFAIK Pandoc *does* support _ as part
 of the key cf. http://pandoc.org/README.html#citations.

My refrain on Citation syntax thread has always been:

The 3rd-Party Citation Tools are *very much* part of the what is
being proposed.  Has someone built a prototype that _actually_
interfaces with these citation tools to understand what the
practical constraints are?

The workflow question I raised is very much in tune with the above
refrain.

 So yeah, I agree with you.
 
 –Rasmus
 

Re: [O] Missing org-mode manual page: Validating OpenDocument XML

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Tuesday 03 March 2015 08:41 PM, Monroe, Will wrote:
   Hello,
 
 I'm trying to troubleshoot a corrupt ODT file that I've exported from 
 org-mode.  
 The org-mode manual provides some guidance for this process on the 
 Validating 
 OpenDocument XML page (see 
 http://orgmode.org/manual/Validating-OpenDocument-XML.html#Validating-OpenDocument-XML).
  
 
 
 It mentions validation of an ODT document against the OpenDocument RELAX NG 
 Compact Syntax (RNC) schema.  I have obtained the xml and RNC files from the 
 org-mode Github site but I'm unsure how to use them.  The org-mode manual 
 page 
 mentions general help in the Introduction (see 
 http://orgmode.org/nxml-mode/Introduction.html#Introduction) but I get a 404 
 error when I attempt to load the page.
 
 Does anyone know where I can read this guide?

You can avoid the cross-manual link errors, by using the manuals at
gnu.org site:

https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/org/Validating-OpenDocument-XML.html

For verification, this is roughly what you need to do:

1. Copy over schema file.
2. Reload Emacs.
3. C-x C-f file.odt
4. Press ENTER on content.xml
5. C-c C-n (M-x rng-next-error)

Or

You can try an online validator: http://odf-validator.rhcloud.com/

Based on my own experience, your *.org file is NOT in utf-8 and uses
non-English characters (whatever they are called).  Just switch the
file to utf-8 encoding and you will be all set.

Re: [O] Missing org-mode manual page: Validating OpenDocument XML

[Vaidheeswaran C]

I am not sure what is happening.  Some suggestions:

1. C-h v temporary-file-directory.  Check this variable, particularly
   if your are on Windows machine.

2. Load Emacs without your custom settings.

   a) emacs -Q -L /path/to/org/library

  (`-L' option not needed if org comes from your Emacs
  installation.)

   b) Once Emacs is loaded, do

  M-x load-library ox-odt

  Note where the styles and schema files come from.

   c) Proceed with export

3.  I will focus on XML errors like loext:contextual-spacing etc.

The style file used by the exporter comes from `OrgOdtStyles.xml'
(Check messages buffer for where this file comes from).  This file
has no such attributes.

Which version of LibreOffice you are using?  Where did you get
style files from?  Are you using #+ODT_STYLES_FILE option etc



On Wednesday 04 March 2015 03:19 AM, Monroe, Will wrote:
   On 3/3/15 2:26 PM, Vaidheeswaran C wrote:
 On Tuesday 03 March 2015 08:41 PM, Monroe, Will wrote:
Hello,

 I'm trying to troubleshoot a corrupt ODT file that I've exported from 
 org-mode.
 The org-mode manual provides some guidance for this process on the 
 Validating
 OpenDocument XML page (see
 http://orgmode.org/manual/Validating-OpenDocument-XML.html#Validating-OpenDocument-XML).


 It mentions validation of an ODT document against the OpenDocument RELAX NG
 Compact Syntax (RNC) schema.  I have obtained the xml and RNC files from 
 the
 org-mode Github site but I'm unsure how to use them.  The org-mode manual 
 page
 mentions general help in the Introduction (see
 http://orgmode.org/nxml-mode/Introduction.html#Introduction) but I get a 404
 error when I attempt to load the page.

 Does anyone know where I can read this guide?
 You can avoid the cross-manual link errors, by using the manuals at
 gnu.org site:

 https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/org/Validating-OpenDocument-XML.html

 For verification, this is roughly what you need to do:

 1. Copy over schema file.
 2. Reload Emacs.
 3. C-x C-f file.odt
 4. Press ENTER on content.xml
 5. C-c C-n (M-x rng-next-error)

 Or

 You can try an online validator:http://odf-validator.rhcloud.com/

 Based on my own experience, your *.org file is NOT in utf-8 and uses
 non-English characters (whatever they are called).  Just switch the
 file to utf-8 encoding and you will be all set.
 Hello,
 
 Thanks for your reply.  I checked the text formatting of the .org document 
 and 
 it was utf-8 (confirmed by Emacs U in the modeline).  I also tried 
 exporting 
 it again and looking at the Messages--can't believe I didn't do that to begin 
 with--and I saw this:
 
 ,
 | LaTeX to MathML converter not available.
 | Formatting LaTeX using verbatim
 | Embedding /Users/wmonro1/Dropbox/org/panopto-create-recording.png as 
 Images/0001.png...
 | Wrote /var/folders/_r/333b9wt92kncthm2ph8wpp59b0ccdd/T/odt-66242t3k/meta.xml
 | Using schema ~/Dropbox/emacs/org-odt-schema/schema/od-schema-v1.2-os.rnc [2 
 times]
 | Saving file 
 /var/folders/_r/333b9wt92kncthm2ph8wpp59b0ccdd/T/odt-66242t3k/styles.xml...
 | Wrote 
 /var/folders/_r/333b9wt92kncthm2ph8wpp59b0ccdd/T/odt-66242t3k/.styles.xml.~undo-tree~
 | Wrote 
 /var/folders/_r/333b9wt92kncthm2ph8wpp59b0ccdd/T/odt-66242t3k/styles.xml
 | Using vacuous schema
 | Wrote /var/folders/_r/333b9wt92kncthm2ph8wpp59b0ccdd/T/odt-66242t3k/mimetype
 | Using vacuous schema
 | Saving file 
 /var/folders/_r/333b9wt92kncthm2ph8wpp59b0ccdd/T/odt-66242t3k/META-INF/manifest.xml...
 | Wrote 
 /var/folders/_r/333b9wt92kncthm2ph8wpp59b0ccdd/T/odt-66242t3k/META-INF/.manifest.xml.~undo-tree~
 | Wrote 
 /var/folders/_r/333b9wt92kncthm2ph8wpp59b0ccdd/T/odt-66242t3k/META-INF/manifest.xml
 | Saving file 
 /var/folders/_r/333b9wt92kncthm2ph8wpp59b0ccdd/T/odt-66242t3k/content.xml...
 | Wrote 
 /var/folders/_r/333b9wt92kncthm2ph8wpp59b0ccdd/T/odt-66242t3k/.content.xml.~undo-tree~
 | Wrote 
 /var/folders/_r/333b9wt92kncthm2ph8wpp59b0ccdd/T/odt-66242t3k/content.xml
 | (No changes need to be saved)
 | Creating ODT file...
 | Running zip -mX0 work.odt mimetype
 | Running zip -rmTq work.odt .
 | Created /Users/wmonro1/Dropbox/org/work.odt
 | Parsing archive file...done.
 | Running open /Users/wmonro1/Dropbox/org/work.odt...done
 | Parsing archive file...done.
 `
 
 The presence of the /.content.xml.~undo-tree~, /.manifest.xml.~undo-tree~, 
 and 
 /.styles.xml.~undo-tree~ got my attention.  After submitting the document to 
 the 
 online validator (default settings used), these files, undoubtedly created by 
 my 
 personal inspection in Emacs, showed up again:
 
 ,
 | Details:
 | work.odt: Info: ODF version of root document: 1.2
 | work.odt/META-INF/manifest.xml: Error: The file '.content.xml.~undo-tree~' 
 shall be listed in the 'META-INF/manifest.xml' file as it exists in the ODF 
 package 'work.odt'!
 | work.odt/META-INF/manifest.xml: Error: The file '.styles.xml.~undo-tree

Re: [O] Citation syntax: a revised proposal

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Wednesday 25 February 2015 09:59 AM, Richard Lawrence wrote:

Vaidheeswaran Cvaidheeswaran.chinnar...@gmail.com  writes:


If you need help with ODT/JabRef integration, I am willing to lend a
hand.  (Only thing is) I would expect that someone hand-hold me wrt
what one wants in the final exporter on a case-by-case basis.  I would
rather build bottom-up, rather than top-down.


That's great, thanks!

I don't know if JabRef will be a/the tool we eventually want to
`bless'...from what you say, it sounds more limited than Zotero, though
I don't know because I haven't personally used either...but it's nice to
have volunteers!


I agree that we should go for the best tool chain that is available. I
wish you success with your new initiative.

Do write to me if you ever feel that JabRef-based workflow will be of
some interest to you with your document production needs.

Re: [O] Citation syntax and ODT

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Tuesday 24 February 2015 08:56 AM, Alexis wrote:

For examle, one might have a citation style like:

[Smith 2001]

which in certain contexts is expected to have a presentation style of
'bolded'.

So what i understand Vaidheeswaran to be asking is: Please don't code
things such that presentation style is /necessarily/ carried along with
citation style. Make it so that exporting a document faithfully
reproduces the citation style in the target format, but don't /force/
the presentation style used in the source format for citation style to
be the presentation style used in the destination format.

Vaidheeswaran, is that correct?



That is the sense in which I used the word 'style'.

I also used 'style' in the sense of the relative order or form
(abbreviated or not) of how the fields from citation database entry
gets presented.

I also used 'style' in the sense of Chicago, APA etc.

When Richard uses 'formatting' he really means how pre and post notes
should be injected in to the inline expansion of a citation reference
(in the body text) so that a reader's experience is uneven due to
jarring parenthetical marks.

Even though we use terms differently, (I think) I have a feel for what
the 'big' discussion is about.

May be the citation spec, should come with a glossary of of terms that
defines the sense in which those need to be understood/interpreted :-P

Re: [O] Citation syntax and ODT

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Tuesday 24 February 2015 10:31 AM, Thomas S. Dye wrote:

Vaidheeswaran Cvaidheeswaran.chinnar...@gmail.com  writes:


Often times there is a difference between what is possible and what is
the common practice.  So,

1. How often do you intermix in-text and parenthetical styles.


Every day?


Ok.


2. Can the document author re-word his work in such a way that an
in-text or parenthetical citation could be replaced by the other
without compromising on the overall style of the produced document.


Yes, but the author will certainly choose to use a tool that doesn't
require this.


(Let me remind you, when it comes to LaTeX, I have zero knowledge.)

1. When you say 'tool' what exactly do you mean?

2. Give us some concrete examples of what 'this tool' does.

   a) Can an elisp module aspire to replicate what 'this tool' does?

   b) 'The task' that 'this tool' accomplishes, is it 'common' across
  all the citation engines that the participants (in this
  discussion) have in mind.



Org crowd is essentially a LaTeX crowd and Emacs crowd is invariably
academic in nature.  It is for this sole reason, that one often
doesn't hear much frequent complaints regarding lack of citation
support.

(I think), if we could keep the OTHER users -- by this I mean, users
of ASCII or HTML or ODT backends happy or 'just happy' we have made a
good progress.

Pleasing LaTeX crowd, which is already pleased with status-quo seems a
bit pointless to me.  Put other way, the LaTeX crowd should represent
just those aspects which it is displeased with.

Re: [O] Citation syntax and ODT

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Tuesday 24 February 2015 04:55 AM, Richard Lawrence wrote:

Vaidheeswaran Cvaidheeswaran.chinnar...@gmail.com  writes:


But whatever style is chosen, I would still think that the fact that the
citation is in-text rather than parenthetical, and that it has a prefix
and suffix, should be represented in the output.


1. When you choose 'style' (Chicago etc.) wouldn't be one of in-text
 or parenthetical already chosen for you?  Stated other way, is the
 choice between parenthetical or in-text document-wide or is it that
 one could intermix the two styles in the same document.


These could be intermixed in the same document.  The document-level
style determines how each type ultimately looks, but the choice of style
is (mostly) independent of using parenthetical vs. in-text citations.


Often times there is a difference between what is possible and what is
the common practice.  So,

1. How often do you intermix in-text and parenthetical styles.

2. Can the document author re-word his work in such a way that an
   in-text or parenthetical citation could be replaced by the other
   without compromising on the overall style of the produced document.


2. Citation processor like JabRef just takes a cite-key.  It doesn't
 take a pre or post-note.  So, the pre and post notes should be
 spliced in to the exported document by the elisp module that
 interfaces with the citation processor.


Right.  That's what I'm thinking, anyway.


If we are going to interface with a citation-processor, the best
course of action would be to have someone first 'gauge' the
capabilities provided by the citation processor and let that
experience inform what Org should aspire to do.


Yes.  Other people have more experience with this than me.  But based on
what Pandoc is able to do, I am pretty confident that everything that
has been proposed could be handled by a CSL processor like citeproc-js
(or Pandoc's own).  The possible exceptions are the common prefix and
common suffix in a multi-work citation, which I imagine would be easy
enough to add to the output of the citation processor.


In case of JabRef or bibtex2html, it is the 'command line' that is
used for interfacing.

In case of pandoc (I could be wrong here), the nature of interface is
most likely to be a post-processing step on the produced document.
This post-processing could happen as part of elisp hook or the
document may be pipelined through a pandoc provided command-line tool.

The point is that the choice of the citation processor will determine
the nature of investments that need to be made in to the export
module.

JabRef or bibtex2html are really very poor cousins when compared to
modern tools like Zotero.  They would continue to remain poor cousins.
So, I can imagine a scenario where JabRef or bibtex2html is relegated
to the background (i.e., a contrib/ Org-module) while Zotero/Pandoc
takes the prime-time (i.e., a lisp/ Org-module).

In so far as zotero is concerned, there 'used to be' no standalone JS
command-line environment or the toolchain was cumbersome.



I am reluctant to invest my time in citeproc-js or pandoc related
integration work (so far as it concerns ODT exporter).  Part of the
reason for this relucatance is that setting up of the toolchain would
involve more than a simple 'apt-get ...'.  (My Debian is a bit old.)

I am reluctant to work on JabRef integration unless I get an apriori
commitment from the maintainers that it will be part of the Emacs
distribution.


Best,
Richard

Re: [O] Citation syntax: a revised proposal

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Tuesday 17 February 2015 10:48 PM, Richard Lawrence wrote:


Another, more serious reason is that I work in a field where some
journals do not accept LaTeX submissions, or disprefer them; so
having some citation support in ODT export is important.)


You are lobbying for two things:

1. An improvement in existing citation syntax.
2. Citation support for ODT backend.

If you need help with ODT/JabRef integration, I am willing to lend a
hand.  (Only thing is) I would expect that someone hand-hold me wrt
what one wants in the final exporter on a case-by-case basis.  I would
rather build bottom-up, rather than top-down.

Re: [O] Citation syntax and ODT

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Tuesday 24 February 2015 11:37 AM, Thomas S. Dye wrote:

Aloha Vaidheeswaran C,

Vaidheeswaran Cvaidheeswaran.chinnar...@gmail.com  writes:


On Tuesday 24 February 2015 10:31 AM, Thomas S. Dye wrote:

Vaidheeswaran Cvaidheeswaran.chinnar...@gmail.com   writes:


Often times there is a difference between what is possible and what is
the common practice.  So,

1. How often do you intermix in-text and parenthetical styles.


Every day?


Ok.


2. Can the document author re-word his work in such a way that an
 in-text or parenthetical citation could be replaced by the other
 without compromising on the overall style of the produced document.


Yes, but the author will certainly choose to use a tool that doesn't
require this.


(Let me remind you, when it comes to LaTeX, I have zero knowledge.)

1. When you say 'tool' what exactly do you mean?
2. Give us some concrete examples of what 'this tool' does.
a) Can an elisp module aspire to replicate what 'this tool' does?
b) 'The task' that 'this tool' accomplishes, is it 'common' across
   all the citation engines that the participants (in this
   discussion) have in mind.


If someone could respond to above questions with concrete examples I
will give it due attention.


In my field of archaeology it is not unusual to find a journal that does
not accept LaTeX.  When the journal requires Word, which is very common,
I've been converting from LaTeX with tex4ht, but it would be neat to
export directly to ODT.


I will be happy to excuse myself from this discussion if ODT/JabRef
integration is of no interest to the community.

Re: [O] ODT export: Issues with `org-export-footnote-first-reference-p'

[Vaidheeswaran C]

Allow me to revisit this thread in a week or 10 days so that I can

1. take a look at ODF standard.

2. dig in to LibreOffice discussion lists to see whether such
   instances have ever surfaced (and how they were dealt with).

Until then, please keep the patch in waiting.


On Friday 13 February 2015 05:48 AM, Nicolas Goaziou wrote:

Vaidheeswaranvaidheeswaran.chinnar...@gmail.com  writes:


What changes need to be made in ox.el and/or ox-odt.el so that the
snippet I shared produces the right XML acceptable for LibreOffice.

text1 [fn:1]

text2 [fn:2]

[fn:1] footdef1[fn:2]

[fn:2] footdef2

For purposes of ODT backend, we need to find the 'site of first
reference' THAT IS OUTSIDE OF A foonote definition.


I think the following should work

   (defun org-odt-footnote-first-reference-p (footnote-reference info)
 Non-nil when FOOTNOTE-REFERENCE is the first one for its label.
   INFO is a plist containing current export state.  Unlike to
   `org-export-footnote-first-reference-p', this function ignores
   footnote definitions.  As a consequence, it assumes that for
   a given label, there is at least one footnote reference outside
   any footnote definition in the document.
 (let ((label (org-element-property :label footnote-reference)))
   (or (not label)
   (eq footnote-reference
   (org-element-map (plist-get info :parse-tree) 'footnote-reference
 (lambda (fn) (and (equal (org-element-property :label fn) 
label)
  fn))
 info t 'footnote-definition)


Would it be possible for you to augment the API so that I can request
such a reference.


I'd rather not change the API, as this makes an unnecessary assumption.
Note that `org-export-get-footnote-number' also assumes the same. E.g.

   text1 [fn:foo]

   text2 [fn:quux]

   text3 [fn:bar]

   [fn:foo] footdeffoo[fn:bar]

   [fn:bar] footdefbar

   [fn:quux] footdefquux


NOTE: The XML that is emitted by the ODT exporter, suggests that the
'[fn:2]' occurring in '[fn:1]' is treated as site of first reference.
We would like to make '[fn:2]' occurring next to 'text2' be treated as
the site of first reference.  If we do that, everything will be just
right.


If the function above works for your use case, I'll install a patch in
ox-odt.


Regards,

Re: [O] ODT export: Issues with `org-export-footnote-first-reference-p'

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Thursday 12 February 2015 12:49 PM, Thomas S. Dye wrote:

Aloha Vaidheeswaran,

This is an odd example that I don't recall having seen in any
publication.  I don't doubt examples might exist, but don't remember
having seen one.  Can you point me to a real-world example of a footnote
referring to a subsequent footnote that I might reference either on-line
or in my local library?


I am OCRing this book:
http://wenshuchan-online.weebly.com/uploads/9/4/8/2/9482304/chan-and-zen-teachingpdf.pdf. 
 This book is atleast 50 years old.


You can find the converted files here:
https://archive.org/details/TheDiamondCutterOfDoubts


The actual text extract goes something as below.  I am attaching the 
scanned image of the book in question.





# page 159

Now they saw uncountable and limitless numbers of living beings in the
universe[fn:145-1] and wondered when all these beings could be saved
and how they could obtain the Buddha fruit since the universe would
never be emptied of these beings.


# page 169

#+BEGIN_QUOTE

'Subhuti, what do you think? If someone filled the Universe[fn:155-4]
with the seven treasures[fn:155-5] and gave them all as alms, would
his merit be great?’

Subhuti replied: 'Very great, World Honoured One. Why? Because this
merit is not the nature of merit, the Tathagata says it is
great.’[fn:155-6]

‘Subhuti, if on the other hand, someone received and kept even a four
line stanza of this sutra and expounded it to others, his merit would
surpass that (of the giver of treasures). Why? (Because), Subhuti, all
Buddhas and their Supreme-Enlightenment-Dharma originate from this
sutra. Subhuti, the so-called Buddhas and Dharmas are not real Buddhas
and Dharmas.'[fn:155-7]

#+END_QUOTE

[fn:145-1] Literally ‘the great trichiliocosm’. See footnote 4, p. 
169.[fn:155-4]


[fn:155-4] Tri-sahasra-maha-sahasra-loka-dhatu=a great
trichiliocosm. Mt. Sumeru and its seven surrounding continents, eight
seas and ring of iron mountains form one small world; 1,000 of these
form a small chiliocosm; 1,000 of these small chiliocosms form a
medium chiliocosm; 1,000 of these form a great chiliocosm, which
consists of 1,000,000,000 small worlds. The word ‘universe’ is used
for convenience sake.






All the best,
Tom

Vaidheeswaranvaidheeswaran.chinnar...@gmail.com  writes:


On Thursday 12 February 2015 02:42 AM, Nicolas Goaziou wrote:

It does, e.g., when exporting to LaTeX. This is an odt limitation.  So,
I disagree, `org-export-footnote-first-reference-p' is correct here.



Let me put my question this way:

What changes need to be made in ox.el and/or ox-odt.el so that the
snippet I shared produces the right XML acceptable for LibreOffice.

text1 [fn:1]

text2 [fn:2]

[fn:1] footdef1[fn:2]

[fn:2] footdef2

For purposes of ODT backend, we need to find the 'site of first
reference' THAT IS OUTSIDE OF A foonote definition.  Would it be
possible for you to augment the API so that I can request such a
reference.

NOTE: The XML that is emitted by the ODT exporter, suggests that the
'[fn:2]' occurring in '[fn:1]' is treated as site of first
reference. We would like to make '[fn:2]' occurring next to 'text2' be
treated as the site of first reference.  If we do that, everything
will be just right.

Re: [O] ODT export: Issues with `org-export-footnote-first-reference-p'

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Tuesday 10 February 2015 06:26 PM, Christian Moe wrote:

Thanks for this. You have

   [fn:1] footdef1[fn:2]

   [fn:2] footdef2

What do you expect to see in ODT? Presumably not a footnote in a
footnote, since LibreOffice doesn't allow you to place one.

An ODT cross-reference to the footnote? That makes sense,


Yes.


but should that be achieved by footnoting inside a footnote


Yes, just like that in the snippet.

That said, it is difficult for me to conceive of a footnote that is
referenced solely by other footnotes. i.e., it is reasonable to assume
that a given footnote is either not referenced at all or is referenced
atleast once in the main text itself.

Re: [O] ODT export: Issues with `org-export-footnote-first-reference-p'

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Wednesday 11 February 2015 02:59 AM, Nicolas Goaziou wrote:

Hello,

Vaidheeswaran Cvaidheeswaran.chinnar...@gmail.com  writes:


That said, it is difficult for me to conceive of a footnote that is
referenced solely by other footnotes. i.e., it is reasonable to assume
that a given footnote is either not referenced at all or is referenced
atleast once in the main text itself.


There's no need to make such an assumption.


I still think that the snippet I shared should have worked.  Clearly
`org-export-footnote-first-reference-p' is misbehaving.


Using link-target within the footnotes should be fixed. Thank you.


This could be a workaround.  But it introduces the overhead of
conjuring up a new link.  Instead of sneaking a  link right in to
the text, another alternative would be to go with:

#+NAME: test
[fn:1] footdef1.


Regards,