Re: [O] [OT] Current website not very attractive
Yes, there is a problem here: only users with push access can clone for now (and pull and push.) I think Jason is not online this week-end, so we will have to live with it. I've created clones of org-mode.git and orgweb.git on github: https://github.com/bzg/org-mode https://github.com/bzg/orgweb HTH, -- Bastien
Re: [O] [OT] Current website not very attractive
Bastien b...@altern.org wrote: Yes, there is a problem here: only users with push access can clone for now (and pull and push.) I think Jason is not online this week-end, so we will have to live with it. I've created clones of org-mode.git and orgweb.git on github: https://github.com/bzg/org-mode https://github.com/bzg/orgweb Just tell people to use http: instead of git: for now. Nick
Re: [O] [OT] Current website not very attractive
Nick Dokos nicholas.do...@hp.com writes: Just tell people to use http: instead of git: for now. All right, you just did so. Thanks, -- Bastien
Re: [O] [OT] Current website not very attractive
For firewalls (im behind one too) see if theres an https alternative. I guess you solved this, but some might not be able to futz with proxies (or shouldn't) at work :) On Sep 21, 2012 5:50 PM, Nick Dokos nicholas.do...@hp.com wrote: Marcelo de Moraes Serpa celose...@gmail.com wrote: Bastien, I can't clone the orgweb repo: git clone git://orgmode.org/orgweb.git Cloning into 'orgweb'... fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly Is the server is down? I can't get to it either, but I am behind a firewall and have had problems with the socks proxy I usually use. After I switched proxies, I *was* able to do a git pull on the emacs repository though, so I suspect the fault is at orgmode.org's end. Nick - Marcelo. On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 12:41 AM, Bastien b...@altern.org wrote: Hi Marcelo, glad you like the new website! It's important to keep Org open to non-developers, it is good if the website somehow advertizes this attitude. Marcelo de Moraes Serpa celose...@gmail.com writes: I can help with the Spanish and Portuguese versions, by the way. Great! ~$ git clone git://orgmode.org/orgweb.git ~$ cd orgweb/ ~$ git branch orgweb-es ~$ mkdir es/ ~$ cp *org es/ [translate the es/*org files] ~$ git commit -m Yeah! es translation done! ~$ git format-patch master ... then send me the patch(es). Should be one-hour max of work. Thanks in advance :) -- Bastien Alternatives:
Re: [O] [OT] Current website not very attractive
Bastien writes: I think Jason is not online this week-end, so we will have to live with it. He has just fixed it and it works again with my old configuration. Regards, Achim. -- +[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]+ Samples for the Waldorf Blofeld: http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#BlofeldSamplesExtra
Re: [O] [OT] Current website not very attractive
Bastien, I can't clone the orgweb repo: git clone git://orgmode.org/orgweb.git Cloning into 'orgweb'... fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly Is the server is down? - Marcelo. On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 12:41 AM, Bastien b...@altern.org wrote: Hi Marcelo, glad you like the new website! It's important to keep Org open to non-developers, it is good if the website somehow advertizes this attitude. Marcelo de Moraes Serpa celose...@gmail.com writes: I can help with the Spanish and Portuguese versions, by the way. Great! ~$ git clone git://orgmode.org/orgweb.git ~$ cd orgweb/ ~$ git branch orgweb-es ~$ mkdir es/ ~$ cp *org es/ [translate the es/*org files] ~$ git commit -m Yeah! es translation done! ~$ git format-patch master ... then send me the patch(es). Should be one-hour max of work. Thanks in advance :) -- Bastien
Re: [O] [OT] Current website not very attractive
Marcelo de Moraes Serpa celose...@gmail.com wrote: Bastien, I can't clone the orgweb repo: git clone git://orgmode.org/orgweb.git Cloning into 'orgweb'... fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly Is the server is down? I can't get to it either, but I am behind a firewall and have had problems with the socks proxy I usually use. After I switched proxies, I *was* able to do a git pull on the emacs repository though, so I suspect the fault is at orgmode.org's end. Nick - Marcelo. On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 12:41 AM, Bastien b...@altern.org wrote: Hi Marcelo, glad you like the new website! It's important to keep Org open to non-developers, it is good if the website somehow advertizes this attitude. Marcelo de Moraes Serpa celose...@gmail.com writes: I can help with the Spanish and Portuguese versions, by the way. Great! ~$ git clone git://orgmode.org/orgweb.git ~$ cd orgweb/ ~$ git branch orgweb-es ~$ mkdir es/ ~$ cp *org es/ [translate the es/*org files] ~$ git commit -m Yeah! es translation done! ~$ git format-patch master ... then send me the patch(es). Should be one-hour max of work. Thanks in advance :) -- Bastien Alternatives:
Re: [O] [OT] Current website not very attractive
Nick Dokos nicholas.do...@hp.com writes: Marcelo de Moraes Serpa celose...@gmail.com wrote: Bastien, I can't clone the orgweb repo: git clone git://orgmode.org/orgweb.git Cloning into 'orgweb'... fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly Is the server is down? I can't get to it either, but I am behind a firewall and have had problems with the socks proxy I usually use. After I switched proxies, I *was* able to do a git pull on the emacs repository though, so I suspect the fault is at orgmode.org's end. orgmode.org was recently moved to a new machine, so you will have to update any tools which check MAC addresses for things like man in the middle attacks. I did have to update my ~/.ssh/known_hosts this morning to remove the old key. I've since been using the git repo on the orgmode server without problem. Hope this helps, -- Eric Schulte http://cs.unm.edu/~eschulte
Re: [O] [OT] Current website not very attractive
Eric Schulte eric.schu...@gmx.com wrote: Nick Dokos nicholas.do...@hp.com writes: Marcelo de Moraes Serpa celose...@gmail.com wrote: Bastien, I can't clone the orgweb repo: git clone git://orgmode.org/orgweb.git Cloning into 'orgweb'... fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly Is the server is down? I can't get to it either, but I am behind a firewall and have had problems with the socks proxy I usually use. After I switched proxies, I *was* able to do a git pull on the emacs repository though, so I suspect the fault is at orgmode.org's end. orgmode.org was recently moved to a new machine, so you will have to update any tools which check MAC addresses for things like man in the middle attacks. I did have to update my ~/.ssh/known_hosts this morning to remove the old key. I don't think that I have anything like that. The IP address resolves to , | $ host orgmode.org | orgmode.org has address 198.101.246.4 | orgmode.org mail is handled by 0 deathroller.dunsmor.com. ` and I can get to http://orgmode.org, I just can't get to it through git: , | $ tsocks git clone git://orgmode.org/org-mode.git | Cloning into org-mode... | fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly ` I've since been using the git repo on the orgmode server without problem. Presumably through ssh? If so, port 22 is open. I wonder if there is some restriction on the git port (9418 by default) though. Nick
Re: [O] [OT] Current website not very attractive
Nick Dokos nicholas.do...@hp.com wrote: Eric Schulte eric.schu...@gmx.com wrote: Nick Dokos nicholas.do...@hp.com writes: Marcelo de Moraes Serpa celose...@gmail.com wrote: Bastien, I can't clone the orgweb repo: git clone git://orgmode.org/orgweb.git Cloning into 'orgweb'... fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly Is the server is down? I can't get to it either, but I am behind a firewall and have had problems with the socks proxy I usually use. After I switched proxies, I *was* able to do a git pull on the emacs repository though, so I suspect the fault is at orgmode.org's end. orgmode.org was recently moved to a new machine, so you will have to update any tools which check MAC addresses for things like man in the middle attacks. I did have to update my ~/.ssh/known_hosts this morning to remove the old key. I don't think that I have anything like that. The IP address resolves to , | $ host orgmode.org | orgmode.org has address 198.101.246.4 | orgmode.org mail is handled by 0 deathroller.dunsmor.com. ` and I can get to http://orgmode.org, I just can't get to it through git: , | $ tsocks git clone git://orgmode.org/org-mode.git | Cloning into org-mode... | fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly ` I've since been using the git repo on the orgmode server without problem. Presumably through ssh? If so, port 22 is open. I wonder if there is some restriction on the git port (9418 by default) though. Nick One other data point: if I change the protocol to http in .git/config, things are working - changing it back to git breaks it again: , | $ git pull | From http://orgmode.org/org-mode |ac9ed2a..5083790 maint - origin/maint |23b30cd..34db1c2 master - origin/master | Updating 23b30cd..34db1c2 | Fast-forward | contrib/lisp/org-wikinodes.el |6 +++--- | doc/org.texi | 23 --- | lisp/Makefile | 13 +++-- | lisp/org-agenda.el|2 +- | lisp/org-clock.el |3 ++- | lisp/org.el |1 + | mk/targets.mk |9 + | 7 files changed, 39 insertions(+), 18 deletions(-) | | # change it back to git: | git pull | fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly ` So it seems to me that either the git daemon is not running or the port is unreachable. Nick
Re: [O] [OT] Current website not very attractive
Bastien et al, Congrats on the new site! I really liked the minimalist concept, the colors and the typography! It's much cleaner and much more attractive :) - Marcelo. On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 4:30 AM, Bastien b...@gnu.org wrote: brian powell briangpowel...@gmail.com writes: --I just hope that whoever wins the contest creates web pages that are 501 compliant and everyone can read on any computer using any operating system and browser and those webpages are as printable as a Texinfo document. Even better: as the website is based on .org files, and as a new TeXinfo exporter will soon be in contrib/lisp/, you will be able to export each page of the website into a TeXinfo document. -- Bastien
Re: [O] [OT] Current website not very attractive
I think the new design is more appealing to not-very-technical-people like graphic designers and other knowledge-workers that might not be coding-savvy, by the way. On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 3:19 PM, Marcelo de Moraes Serpa celose...@gmail.com wrote: Bastien et al, Congrats on the new site! I really liked the minimalist concept, the colors and the typography! It's much cleaner and much more attractive :) - Marcelo. On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 4:30 AM, Bastien b...@gnu.org wrote: brian powell briangpowel...@gmail.com writes: --I just hope that whoever wins the contest creates web pages that are 501 compliant and everyone can read on any computer using any operating system and browser and those webpages are as printable as a Texinfo document. Even better: as the website is based on .org files, and as a new TeXinfo exporter will soon be in contrib/lisp/, you will be able to export each page of the website into a TeXinfo document. -- Bastien
Re: [O] [OT] Current website not very attractive
I can help with the Spanish and Portuguese versions, by the way. On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 3:21 PM, Marcelo de Moraes Serpa celose...@gmail.com wrote: I think the new design is more appealing to not-very-technical-people like graphic designers and other knowledge-workers that might not be coding-savvy, by the way. On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 3:19 PM, Marcelo de Moraes Serpa celose...@gmail.com wrote: Bastien et al, Congrats on the new site! I really liked the minimalist concept, the colors and the typography! It's much cleaner and much more attractive :) - Marcelo. On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 4:30 AM, Bastien b...@gnu.org wrote: brian powell briangpowel...@gmail.com writes: --I just hope that whoever wins the contest creates web pages that are 501 compliant and everyone can read on any computer using any operating system and browser and those webpages are as printable as a Texinfo document. Even better: as the website is based on .org files, and as a new TeXinfo exporter will soon be in contrib/lisp/, you will be able to export each page of the website into a TeXinfo document. -- Bastien
Re: [O] [OT] Current website not very attractive
Hi Marcelo, glad you like the new website! It's important to keep Org open to non-developers, it is good if the website somehow advertizes this attitude. Marcelo de Moraes Serpa celose...@gmail.com writes: I can help with the Spanish and Portuguese versions, by the way. Great! ~$ git clone git://orgmode.org/orgweb.git ~$ cd orgweb/ ~$ git branch orgweb-es ~$ mkdir es/ ~$ cp *org es/ [translate the es/*org files] ~$ git commit -m Yeah! es translation done! ~$ git format-patch master ... then send me the patch(es). Should be one-hour max of work. Thanks in advance :) -- Bastien
Re: [O] [OT] Current website not very attractive
Hi Marcelo, Marcelo de Moraes Serpa celose...@gmail.com writes: @Nick: I'm not a designer, more of a hybrid coder with some design foundations, but I'm definitely willing to help. I don't like the current layout because of it's overuse of shadows and its web1-style layout. Also, typography could use some improvement, and we could also use a better screenshot, to give a better first impression. If you have good ideas but no HTML/css skills, maybe you can find a HTML/css who has no good ideas and work with him for the contest. Best, -- Bastien
Re: [O] [OT] Current website not very attractive
Nick Dokos nicholas.do...@hp.com writes: Another goal should be ease of maintenance of the website: I'm sure neither Bastien nor Jason have infinite time to tweak things. I confirm I don't have infinite time, but I do have ~infinite patience for this kind of stuff. -- Bastien
Re: [O] [OT] Current website not very attractive
brian powell briangpowel...@gmail.com writes: --I just hope that whoever wins the contest creates web pages that are 501 compliant and everyone can read on any computer using any operating system and browser and those webpages are as printable as a Texinfo document. Even better: as the website is based on .org files, and as a new TeXinfo exporter will soon be in contrib/lisp/, you will be able to export each page of the website into a TeXinfo document. -- Bastien
Re: [O] [OT] Current website not very attractive
Nick Dokos nicholas.do...@hp.com wrote: Sankalp sankalpkh...@gmail.com wrote: --f46d044401de1e3ad604c6de28a7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I'm inclined to agree with Marcelo. -- Sankalp *** If humans could mate with software, I'd have org-mode's babies. --- Chris League on Twitter. http://orgmode.org/worg/org-quotes.html *** On 10 August 2012 04:44, Jude DaShiell jdash...@shellworld.net wrote: Good, that probably means it's one of the more accessible and usable web sites on the internet. On Thu, 9 Aug 2012, Marcelo de Moraes Serpa wrote: Hey list, Don't want to be negative, but doesn't anyone else also think the current design is kind of amateurish and not very attractive? I also did not like the screenshot used, I preferred the previous one, it showed more org capabilities, and the colors and indentation looked better. My two cents and food for thought, Talk is cheap: how would you improve it? And I don't mean generalities: build a website as you think it should be and then invite us over to take a look. And as Jude suggests, don't forget to keep accessibility/usability issues in mind as you design. Nick It has been pointed out to me that my comments might be taken as overbearing. Not my intent, but I will take back the talk is cheap part (or repeat it to myself as the target this time) and apologize for it: I should have reread the mail before hitting send. But the larger point is still there: I don't like it is a legitimate response, but is not nearly as helpful as giving a list of reasons of *why* you don't like it. And providing something you *like* is even better. E.g. would the current design with the previous screen shot be OK? Or are there deeper problems? Nick
Re: [O] [OT] Current website not very attractive
Hey guys, Didn't mean to start any kind of flame. @Nick: I'm not a designer, more of a hybrid coder with some design foundations, but I'm definitely willing to help. I don't like the current layout because of it's overuse of shadows and its web1-style layout. Also, typography could use some improvement, and we could also use a better screenshot, to give a better first impression. - Marcelo. On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 1:30 AM, Nick Dokos nicholas.do...@hp.com wrote: Nick Dokos nicholas.do...@hp.com wrote: Sankalp sankalpkh...@gmail.com wrote: --f46d044401de1e3ad604c6de28a7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I'm inclined to agree with Marcelo. -- Sankalp *** If humans could mate with software, I'd have org-mode's babies. --- Chris League on Twitter. http://orgmode.org/worg/org-quotes.html *** On 10 August 2012 04:44, Jude DaShiell jdash...@shellworld.net wrote: Good, that probably means it's one of the more accessible and usable web sites on the internet. On Thu, 9 Aug 2012, Marcelo de Moraes Serpa wrote: Hey list, Don't want to be negative, but doesn't anyone else also think the current design is kind of amateurish and not very attractive? I also did not like the screenshot used, I preferred the previous one, it showed more org capabilities, and the colors and indentation looked better. My two cents and food for thought, Talk is cheap: how would you improve it? And I don't mean generalities: build a website as you think it should be and then invite us over to take a look. And as Jude suggests, don't forget to keep accessibility/usability issues in mind as you design. Nick It has been pointed out to me that my comments might be taken as overbearing. Not my intent, but I will take back the talk is cheap part (or repeat it to myself as the target this time) and apologize for it: I should have reread the mail before hitting send. But the larger point is still there: I don't like it is a legitimate response, but is not nearly as helpful as giving a list of reasons of *why* you don't like it. And providing something you *like* is even better. E.g. would the current design with the previous screen shot be OK? Or are there deeper problems? Nick
Re: [O] [OT] Current website not very attractive
Marcelo de Moraes Serpa celose...@gmail.com wrote: Hey guys, Didn't mean to start any kind of flame. You did not. I didn't mean to either but my comment could be taken as inflammatory, hence my apology. @Nick: I'm not a designer, more of a hybrid coder with some design foundations, but I'm definitely willing to help. I don't like the current layout because of it's overuse of shadows and its web1-style layout. Also, typography could use some improvement, and we could also use a better screenshot, to give a better first impression. Neither am I: I generally am happy when I can get to the information I need - I don't care how the page looks but I realize I'm very much in the minority here. FWIW, I'm happy with the website as it is. Perhaps a useful distinction is between content and appearance (the latter to be taken care of by CSS mostly). The shadows and typography are appearance only - the screenshot is more content-like (and btw, there are multiple screenshots so you can reload the page and get another view of org's capabilities - there is no visible indication of that however). Another goal should be ease of maintenance of the website: I'm sure neither Bastien nor Jason have infinite time to tweak things. Nick
Re: [O] [OT] Current website not very attractive
* The site looks great as it is. ** Its supposed to be simple and simple-looking: *** Go to: http://orgmode.org = Read the top line: Org: Your Life in Plain Text *** Go to: http://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html = Read the top line: Org Mode - Organize Your Life In Plain Text! * Simplicity and portability is a huge part of the point of OrgMode right!? * EMACS and TeX and Texinfo, etc. are great (partially) because they have been ported to all platforms. ** So, if you make any changes, you should be able to convert the end webpages to Texinfo so they are readable and printable on all computers and printers. --I just hope that whoever wins the contest creates web pages that are 501 compliant and everyone can read on any computer using any operating system and browser and those webpages are as printable as a Texinfo document. On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Marcelo de Moraes Serpa celose...@gmail.com wrote: Hey guys, Didn't mean to start any kind of flame. @Nick: I'm not a designer, more of a hybrid coder with some design foundations, but I'm definitely willing to help. I don't like the current layout because of it's overuse of shadows and its web1-style layout. Also, typography could use some improvement, and we could also use a better screenshot, to give a better first impression. - Marcelo. On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 1:30 AM, Nick Dokos nicholas.do...@hp.com wrote: Nick Dokos nicholas.do...@hp.com wrote: Sankalp sankalpkh...@gmail.com wrote: --f46d044401de1e3ad604c6de28a7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I'm inclined to agree with Marcelo. -- Sankalp *** If humans could mate with software, I'd have org-mode's babies. --- Chris League on Twitter. http://orgmode.org/worg/org-quotes.html *** On 10 August 2012 04:44, Jude DaShiell jdash...@shellworld.net wrote: Good, that probably means it's one of the more accessible and usable web sites on the internet. On Thu, 9 Aug 2012, Marcelo de Moraes Serpa wrote: Hey list, Don't want to be negative, but doesn't anyone else also think the current design is kind of amateurish and not very attractive? I also did not like the screenshot used, I preferred the previous one, it showed more org capabilities, and the colors and indentation looked better. My two cents and food for thought, Talk is cheap: how would you improve it? And I don't mean generalities: build a website as you think it should be and then invite us over to take a look. And as Jude suggests, don't forget to keep accessibility/usability issues in mind as you design. Nick It has been pointed out to me that my comments might be taken as overbearing. Not my intent, but I will take back the talk is cheap part (or repeat it to myself as the target this time) and apologize for it: I should have reread the mail before hitting send. But the larger point is still there: I don't like it is a legitimate response, but is not nearly as helpful as giving a list of reasons of *why* you don't like it. And providing something you *like* is even better. E.g. would the current design with the previous screen shot be OK? Or are there deeper problems? Nick
[O] [OT] Current website not very attractive
Hey list, Don't want to be negative, but doesn't anyone else also think the current design is kind of amateurish and not very attractive? I also did not like the screenshot used, I preferred the previous one, it showed more org capabilities, and the colors and indentation looked better. My two cents and food for thought, - Marcelo.
Re: [O] [OT] Current website not very attractive
Good, that probably means it's one of the more accessible and usable web sites on the internet. On Thu, 9 Aug 2012, Marcelo de Moraes Serpa wrote: Hey list, Don't want to be negative, but doesn't anyone else also think the current design is kind of amateurish and not very attractive? I also did not like the screenshot used, I preferred the previous one, it showed more org capabilities, and the colors and indentation looked better. My two cents and food for thought, - Marcelo. Support your local church or synagogue, worship at Bank Of America! Jude jdashiel-at-shellworld-dot-net http://www.shellworld.net/~jdashiel/nj.html
Re: [O] [OT] Current website not very attractive
I'm inclined to agree with Marcelo. -- Sankalp *** If humans could mate with software, I'd have org-mode's babies. --- Chris League on Twitter. http://orgmode.org/worg/org-quotes.html *** On 10 August 2012 04:44, Jude DaShiell jdash...@shellworld.net wrote: Good, that probably means it's one of the more accessible and usable web sites on the internet. On Thu, 9 Aug 2012, Marcelo de Moraes Serpa wrote: Hey list, Don't want to be negative, but doesn't anyone else also think the current design is kind of amateurish and not very attractive? I also did not like the screenshot used, I preferred the previous one, it showed more org capabilities, and the colors and indentation looked better. My two cents and food for thought, - Marcelo. Support your local church or synagogue, worship at Bank Of America! Jude jdashiel-at-shellworld-dot-net http://www.shellworld.net/~jdashiel/nj.html
Re: [O] [OT] Current website not very attractive
I love the orgmode website. If you want to see amateurish and not attractive, take a look at http://www.r-project.org/ (I love R too, but the website could use an update) -Ista On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 5:45 PM, Marcelo de Moraes Serpa celose...@gmail.com wrote: Hey list, Don't want to be negative, but doesn't anyone else also think the current design is kind of amateurish and not very attractive? I also did not like the screenshot used, I preferred the previous one, it showed more org capabilities, and the colors and indentation looked better. My two cents and food for thought, - Marcelo.
Re: [O] [OT] Current website not very attractive
Sankalp sankalpkh...@gmail.com wrote: --f46d044401de1e3ad604c6de28a7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I'm inclined to agree with Marcelo. -- Sankalp *** If humans could mate with software, I'd have org-mode's babies. --- Chris League on Twitter. http://orgmode.org/worg/org-quotes.html *** On 10 August 2012 04:44, Jude DaShiell jdash...@shellworld.net wrote: Good, that probably means it's one of the more accessible and usable web sites on the internet. On Thu, 9 Aug 2012, Marcelo de Moraes Serpa wrote: Hey list, Don't want to be negative, but doesn't anyone else also think the current design is kind of amateurish and not very attractive? I also did not like the screenshot used, I preferred the previous one, it showed more org capabilities, and the colors and indentation looked better. My two cents and food for thought, Talk is cheap: how would you improve it? And I don't mean generalities: build a website as you think it should be and then invite us over to take a look. And as Jude suggests, don't forget to keep accessibility/usability issues in mind as you design. Nick
Re: [O] [OT] Current website not very attractive
how would you improve it? I will probably make Worg Wikipedia-like 1. Quick navigation to one side. 2. TOC on top and bounded. 3. A header bar, maybe. 4. A bigger font. One can start with pedia.css provided by Emacswiki. I have followed this trail - Org as a Wiki and a personal information portal - a bit for last few weeks. If Wiki-like style is not agreeable one can go with a style like this: http://mah.everybody.org/books/. There is some simple understated elegance to that page that is quite appealing. It is the presence of margins on either side that makes the page look solemn and respectable. --
