Re: [O] [RFC] [PATCH] [parser] org-element.el: Handle block parameters
Hello, Aaron Ecay aarone...@gmail.com writes: 2013ko urriak 30an, Nicolas Goaziou-ek idatzi zuen: IIRC, I already suggested a solution with Babel for this problem. There's no need to complicate core Org syntax for such a specific case. And I already said why I disagree that your proposal is a solution. Special blocks are “Containers targeted at export back-ends” (according to the manual). Is it appropriate for such containers to have metadata attached? As I explain below, I think so. Whether you approve or disapprove of the use to which someone puts that metadata in a specific instance is a different question, as long as we agree that the metadata is potentially useful for some things. Metadata relative to export back-ends is stuffed into #+attr_backend keywords. There's no reason to clobber Org syntax with back-ends metadata. Actually, there are two points to consider: 1. Providing something like :author implies that all back-ends in core and contrib and the manual have to be updated accordingly. Yes, that is desirable eventually. I guess whoever implements :author for quotes (maybe it will be me) will need to think about all these things. (Though I’m not sure that all backends have to be updated in one fell swoop. The old behavior is still fine as a fall-back until all backends catch up to the new standard. All backends will not magically catch-up if nobody does the job. Creating new syntax has a cost, which is higher than simply adding a few lines in org-element.el. 2. parameters is too vague to be useful. It needs to be parsed further, which means that we must define explicitly use cases and keywords. Thus, I don't think adding parameters to every block is a good move if we don't know beforehand how they will be used. Though, it is possible to extend the syntax to well-defined specific cases. :author may be one of them, there are certainly others. I have the opposite view. The parser should provide a set of convenient tools to elisp code, which are useful for extending org’s functionality at the elisp level. An “if you build it they will come” approach. I'm trying to unify and simplify Org syntax. The simpler the better. That doesn't mean that the syntax cannot be extended, but I'd like to see a concrete good reason for it. Let's do it as it might be used later just doesn't cut it. Moreover, your proposal, IMO, is not well-enough defined. You merely add a free-form string and call it parameters. Parameters for what? Which syntax: a plist, switches? Why cannot some parameters fit into other affiliated keywords (e.g. HEADER)? What happens if the line is too long: is there another location for them? What happens if they compete with other affiliated keywords, i.e. what if I write #+begin_quote :caption Something So, again, it is important to know what they do so we can deduce what location is the more appropriate for them. For example, attributes should be short enough to fit on a single line. Switches are good candidates, a plist is not (see switches in example blocks, for example), unless we limit allowed keywords in it. Regards, -- Nicolas Goaziou
Re: [O] [RFC] [PATCH] [parser] org-element.el: Handle block parameters
Hi Nicolas, 2013ko urriak 31an, Nicolas Goaziou-ek idatzi zuen: [...] Moreover, your proposal, IMO, is not well-enough defined. You merely add a free-form string and call it parameters. Parameters for what? Which syntax: a plist, switches? I think a plist would work fine, indeed. Why cannot some parameters fit into other affiliated keywords (e.g. HEADER)? Very interesting. I did not realize that #+header: could apply to elements other than babel blocks. (Babel blocks are all that is documented in the manual, for example.) But a quick experiment shows that they can. I think #+header with a plist can accomplish all of what I wanted. So, if this is a reliable component of org syntax, I will focus on documenting it in the manual. If you like, I will also remove the references to block parameters on worg (or you can do it if you’d rather, since I think you originally wrote the syntax document). Thanks, -- Aaron Ecay
Re: [O] [RFC] [PATCH] [parser] org-element.el: Handle block parameters
Hello, Aaron Ecay aarone...@gmail.com writes: Very interesting. I did not realize that #+header: could apply to elements other than babel blocks. (Babel blocks are all that is documented in the manual, for example.) But a quick experiment shows that they can. I think #+header with a plist can accomplish all of what I wanted. HEADER is not parsed as a plist but as a list of strings (one per keyword). Internally, Babel parses it differently (as an alist). So, if this is a reliable component of org syntax, I will focus on documenting it in the manual. What feature do you want to document? At the moment, HEADER keywords are only used on src blocks, by Babel, and this is already documented. If you like, I will also remove the references to block parameters on worg (or you can do it if you’d rather, since I think you originally wrote the syntax document). Please go ahead. Thank you. Regards, -- Nicolas Goaziou
Re: [O] [RFC] [PATCH] [parser] org-element.el: Handle block parameters
Hello, Aaron Ecay aarone...@gmail.com writes: I have several export filters which translate special blocks into latex code (doing some tedious string munging in elisp, such that a simple latex block is not warranted; I also have the eventual goal of making them cross-backend, which will involve a different bit of tedious munging). These filters take arguments in the #+begin_foo line. IIRC, I already suggested a solution with Babel for this problem. There's no need to complicate core Org syntax for such a specific case. I also think it would be nice for the org code following this paragraph to be translated to output that makes sense for each backend, with the quote’s author formatted nicely (on a new line preceded by a dash, aligned to the right margin in text/html, using the csquotes package in latex, etc.). This patch would enable such a functionality. #+begin_quote Chico Marx Why a duck? #+end_quote Well actually, this kind of syntax is confusing at best. Something like the following could be used instead: #+begin_quote :author Chico Marx Actually, there are two points to consider: 1. Providing something like :author implies that all back-ends in core and contrib and the manual have to be updated accordingly. 2. parameters is too vague to be useful. It needs to be parsed further, which means that we must define explicitly use cases and keywords. Thus, I don't think adding parameters to every block is a good move if we don't know beforehand how they will be used. Though, it is possible to extend the syntax to well-defined specific cases. :author may be one of them, there are certainly others. Regards, -- Nicolas Goaziou
Re: [O] [RFC] [PATCH] [parser] org-element.el: Handle block parameters
Hi Nicolas, 2013ko urriak 30an, Nicolas Goaziou-ek idatzi zuen: IIRC, I already suggested a solution with Babel for this problem. There's no need to complicate core Org syntax for such a specific case. And I already said why I disagree that your proposal is a solution. Special blocks are “Containers targeted at export back-ends” (according to the manual). Is it appropriate for such containers to have metadata attached? As I explain below, I think so. Whether you approve or disapprove of the use to which someone puts that metadata in a specific instance is a different question, as long as we agree that the metadata is potentially useful for some things. I also think it would be nice for the org code following this paragraph to be translated to output that makes sense for each backend, with the quote’s author formatted nicely (on a new line preceded by a dash, aligned to the right margin in text/html, using the csquotes package in latex, etc.). This patch would enable such a functionality. #+begin_quote Chico Marx Why a duck? #+end_quote Well actually, this kind of syntax is confusing at best. Something like the following could be used instead: #+begin_quote :author Chico Marx That is a good idea. Actually, there are two points to consider: 1. Providing something like :author implies that all back-ends in core and contrib and the manual have to be updated accordingly. Yes, that is desirable eventually. I guess whoever implements :author for quotes (maybe it will be me) will need to think about all these things. (Though I’m not sure that all backends have to be updated in one fell swoop. The old behavior is still fine as a fall-back until all backends catch up to the new standard. I’m thinking specifically of backends in contrib – certainly the core exporters for html, latex, and plain text should move in tandem. I’m not sure there is any single person who knows the details of all the available export formats well enough to make a change like this across all of them.) 2. parameters is too vague to be useful. It needs to be parsed further, which means that we must define explicitly use cases and keywords. Thus, I don't think adding parameters to every block is a good move if we don't know beforehand how they will be used. Though, it is possible to extend the syntax to well-defined specific cases. :author may be one of them, there are certainly others. I have the opposite view. The parser should provide a set of convenient tools to elisp code, which are useful for extending org’s functionality at the elisp level. An “if you build it they will come” approach. One very successful recent example of this is the attr_backend syntax. This allows specifying data in a very open-ended format to export backends. I think people (including me) have been able to take advantage of this fact to incrementally improve export backends. Importantly, it was not necessary to define beforehand what keys and values are available in attr_backend lines. There is just free-form data, which anyone’s lisp code can hook into for whatever purpose. If such an addition is useful and general-purpose enough, it can be added to the official export backend; otherwise it just lives in users’ configured export filters. Aaron (An alternative proposal which would work just as well – better even, insofar as it applies to things other than special blocks – would be to provide a backend-agnostic #+attr: syntax (maybe with a different name, to avoid clashing with export-specific #+attr_foo). The :author information (for example) could then be put there. But I shaped this proposal based on what was already present in the documentation.) -- Aaron Ecay
Re: [O] [RFC] [PATCH] [parser] org-element.el: Handle block parameters
Hello, Aaron Ecay aarone...@gmail.com writes: Thanks for the patch. This brings the parser in line with the Org Syntax as documented on Worg: http://orgmode.org/worg/dev/org-syntax.html#Greater_Blocks. Besides this reason (which could also be solved by updating Org Syntax document), do you have a need for this extension? This does not handle paramters for export blocks (#+begin_latex et al.) or comment blocks, but these would be trivial to add if needed. Syntax for parameters is different for these blocks, and is already handled. Now some comments about the code. + (params (progn (looking-at [ \t]*#\\+BEGIN_CENTER\\(?: +\\(.*\\)\\)?) I suggest changing the regexp into [ \t]*#\\+BEGIN_CENTER\\(?: +\\(.*\\)[ \t]*\\)? in order to trim parameters, if any. + (match-string 1))) It's better to use `org-match-string-no-properties' since you don't need properties. + (format #+BEGIN_CENTER%s\n%s#+END_CENTER + (if (org-element-property :parameters center-block) + (concat (org-element-property :parameters center-block)) +) + contents)) A `let' would be nicer. (let ((parameters (org-element-property :parameters center-block))) (if parameters (concat parameters) )) + (params (progn (looking-at [ \t]*#\\+BEGIN_QUOTE\\(?: +\\(.*\\)\\)?) + (match-string 1))) Ditto. + (format #+BEGIN_QUOTE%s\n%s#+END_QUOTE + (if (org-element-property :parameters quote-block) + (concat (org-element-property :parameters quote-block)) + ) Ditto + (type (progn (looking-at [ \t]*#\\+BEGIN_\\(\\S-+\\)\\(?: +\\(.*\\)\\)?) + (upcase (match-string-no-properties 1 Ditto. + (params (match-string-no-properties 2))) Use `org-match-string-no-properties' here, for compatibility with XEmacs. +(format #+BEGIN_%s%s\n%s#+END_%s + block-type + (if (org-element-property :parameters special-block) +(concat (org-element-property :parameters special-block)) + ) See above. + (params (progn (looking-at [ \t]*#\\+BEGIN_VERSE\\(?: +\\(.*\\)\\)?) +(match-string 1))) See above. + (format #+BEGIN_VERSE%s\n%s#+END_VERSE + (if (org-element-property :parameters verse-block) + (concat (org-element-property :parameters verse-block)) +) See above. Regards, -- Nicolas Goaziou
Re: [O] [RFC] [PATCH] [parser] org-element.el: Handle block parameters
Hi Nicolas, 2013ko urriak 29an, Nicolas Goaziou-ek idatzi zuen: [...] This brings the parser in line with the Org Syntax as documented on Worg: http://orgmode.org/worg/dev/org-syntax.html#Greater_Blocks. Besides this reason (which could also be solved by updating Org Syntax document), do you have a need for this extension? I have several export filters which translate special blocks into latex code (doing some tedious string munging in elisp, such that a simple latex block is not warranted; I also have the eventual goal of making them cross-backend, which will involve a different bit of tedious munging). These filters take arguments in the #+begin_foo line. I also think it would be nice for the org code following this paragraph to be translated to output that makes sense for each backend, with the quote’s author formatted nicely (on a new line preceded by a dash, aligned to the right margin in text/html, using the csquotes package in latex, etc.). This patch would enable such a functionality. #+begin_quote Chico Marx Why a duck? #+end_quote If these seem like compelling use cases, then I will make the adjustments you proposed to the code (which all look correct). Thanks, -- Aaron Ecay
[O] [RFC] [PATCH] [parser] org-element.el: Handle block parameters
* lisp/org-element.el (org-element-center-block-parser, org-element-quote-block-parser, org-element-special-block-parser, org-element-verse-block-parser): Add :parameters to return value (org-element-center-block-interpreter, org-element-quote-block-interpreter, org-element-special-block-interpreter, org-element-verse-block-interpreter): Interpret :parameters if present * testing/lisp/test-org-element.el (test-org-element/center-block-parser, test-org-element/example-block-parser, test-org-element/quote-block-parser, test-org-element/special-block-parser, test-org-element/special-block-parser, test-org-element/verse-block-parser, test-org-element/center-block-interpreter, test-org-element/quote-block-interpreter, test-org-element/special-block-interpreter, test-org-element/example-block-interpreter, test-org-element/verse-block-interpreter): Update tests to check :parameters This brings the parser in line with the Org Syntax as documented on Worg: http://orgmode.org/worg/dev/org-syntax.html#Greater_Blocks. --- This does not handle paramters for export blocks (#+begin_latex et al.) or comment blocks, but these would be trivial to add if needed. lisp/org-element.el | 49 --- testing/lisp/test-org-element.el | 63 +--- 2 files changed, 92 insertions(+), 20 deletions(-) diff --git a/lisp/org-element.el b/lisp/org-element.el index 254af3c..c9ac9a5 100644 --- a/lisp/org-element.el +++ b/lisp/org-element.el @@ -494,7 +494,7 @@ their value. Return a list whose CAR is `center-block' and CDR is a plist containing `:begin', `:end', `:contents-begin', `:contents-end', -`:post-blank' and `:post-affiliated' keywords. +`:parameters', `:post-blank' and `:post-affiliated' keywords. Assume point is at the beginning of the block. (let ((case-fold-search t)) @@ -505,6 +505,8 @@ Assume point is at the beginning of the block. (let ((block-end-line (match-beginning 0))) (let* ((begin (car affiliated)) (post-affiliated (point)) + (params (progn (looking-at [ \t]*#\\+BEGIN_CENTER\\(?: +\\(.*\\)\\)?) + (match-string 1))) ;; Empty blocks have no contents. (contents-begin (progn (forward-line) (and ( (point) block-end-line) @@ -522,6 +524,7 @@ Assume point is at the beginning of the block. :end end :contents-begin contents-begin :contents-end contents-end + :parameters params :post-blank (count-lines pos-before-blank end) :post-affiliated post-affiliated) (cdr affiliated @@ -529,7 +532,11 @@ Assume point is at the beginning of the block. (defun org-element-center-block-interpreter (center-block contents) Interpret CENTER-BLOCK element as Org syntax. CONTENTS is the contents of the element. - (format #+BEGIN_CENTER\n%s#+END_CENTER contents)) + (format #+BEGIN_CENTER%s\n%s#+END_CENTER + (if (org-element-property :parameters center-block) + (concat (org-element-property :parameters center-block)) +) + contents)) Drawer @@ -1338,7 +1345,7 @@ their value. Return a list whose CAR is `quote-block' and CDR is a plist containing `:begin', `:end', `:contents-begin', `:contents-end', -`:post-blank' and `:post-affiliated' keywords. +`:parameters', `:post-blank' and `:post-affiliated' keywords. Assume point is at the beginning of the block. (let ((case-fold-search t)) @@ -1350,6 +1357,8 @@ Assume point is at the beginning of the block. (save-excursion (let* ((begin (car affiliated)) (post-affiliated (point)) + (params (progn (looking-at [ \t]*#\\+BEGIN_QUOTE\\(?: +\\(.*\\)\\)?) + (match-string 1))) ;; Empty blocks have no contents. (contents-begin (progn (forward-line) (and ( (point) block-end-line) @@ -1367,6 +1376,7 @@ Assume point is at the beginning of the block. :end end :contents-begin contents-begin :contents-end contents-end +:parameters params :post-blank (count-lines pos-before-blank end) :post-affiliated post-affiliated) (cdr affiliated) @@ -1374,7 +1384,11 @@ Assume point is at the beginning of the block. (defun org-element-quote-block-interpreter (quote-block contents) Interpret QUOTE-BLOCK element as Org syntax. CONTENTS is the contents of the element. - (format #+BEGIN_QUOTE\n%s#+END_QUOTE contents)) + (format #+BEGIN_QUOTE%s\n%s#+END_QUOTE + (if (org-element-property :parameters quote-block) + (concat (org-element-property
