Re: [O] [RFC] Proposal for rebindings in Org 8.3

2014-03-10 Thread Greg Troxel
Bastien b...@gnu.org writes: | Key | Command | Proposal | Status | |---+---+--+| | C-c # | Checkboxes| C-c x| Free | | C-c ~ | Cooperation

Re: [O] [RFC] Proposal for rebindings in Org 8.3

2014-02-11 Thread Bastien
Hi Sébastien, Sebastien Vauban sva-news-D0wtAvR13HarG/idocf...@public.gmane.org writes: Weird. I don't even see the binding in `find-func.el' (in Emacs trunk from last week): My bad -- this is a custom keybinding of mine, I added it long ago and rediscovered it recently. It definitely

Re: [O] [RFC] Proposal for rebindings in Org 8.3

2014-02-10 Thread Bastien
Hi Thomas, t...@tsdye.com (Thomas S. Dye) writes: Bastien b...@gnu.org writes: A few comments on the last three: - is not a punctuation character, I find C-c instead of C-c ' good. Is it true that is not a punctuation character? It is a string in both fundamental-mode and org-mode,

Re: [O] [RFC] Proposal for rebindings in Org 8.3

2014-02-10 Thread Bastien
Hi Nick, Nick Dokos ndo...@gmail.com writes: , |* Don't bind `C-h' following any prefix character (including `C-c'). | If you don't bind `C-h', it is automatically available as a help | character for listing the subcommands of the prefix character. ` That's *very*

Re: [O] [RFC] Proposal for rebindings in Org 8.3

2014-02-10 Thread Sebastien Vauban
Hello Bastien, Bastien wrote: (This one I knew. My own recent discovery was C-h : to directly jump to the definition of a symbol. Pretty useful.) ╭ │ C-h : is undefined ╰ on my side. To what is it bound on your side? Best regards, Seb -- Sebastien Vauban

Re: [O] [RFC] Proposal for rebindings in Org 8.3

2014-02-10 Thread Bastien
Sebastien Vauban sva-news-D0wtAvR13HarG/idocf...@public.gmane.org writes: Bastien wrote: (This one I knew. My own recent discovery was C-h : to directly jump to the definition of a symbol. Pretty useful.) ╭ │ C-h : is undefined ╰ on my side. To what is it bound on your

Re: [O] [RFC] Proposal for rebindings in Org 8.3

2014-02-10 Thread Sebastien Vauban
Bastien, Bastien wrote: Sebastien Vauban writes: Bastien wrote: (This one I knew. My own recent discovery was C-h : to directly jump to the definition of a symbol. Pretty useful.) ╭ │ C-h : is undefined ╰ on my side. To what is it bound on your side? find-function

Re: [O] [RFC] Proposal for rebindings in Org 8.3

2014-02-10 Thread Achim Gratz
Bastien writes: So C-c : would call org-edit-src-code and C-c C-: would convert the region to fixed-width region. You cannot enter C-: in some terminals because it would require simultaneous processing of shift and control (these terminals ignore shift while control is pressed). Regards,

Re: [O] [RFC] Proposal for rebindings in Org 8.3

2014-02-09 Thread Bastien
Hi Samuel, Samuel Wales samolog...@gmail.com writes: i meant that c-c c-' and c-c c- are both cumbersome for those users who press c-c by holding down the control key with the right hand and then pressing c with the left hand. c-c ' is not cumbersome for those users. I understand better

Re: [O] [RFC] Proposal for rebindings in Org 8.3

2014-02-09 Thread Achim Gratz
Bastien writes: What I don't understand is why keeping the right control key between C-c and C-' is harder than releasing the control key between C-c and ' (or as also proposed.) My experience (which seems the same than Nick's) is that holding the control key down is easier/faster. That

Re: [O] [RFC] Proposal for rebindings in Org 8.3

2014-02-09 Thread Tim O'Callaghan
Rasmus ras...@gmx.us writes: For me the following keys need shift or Alt-Gr: ^, , `, !, ?, and ~. Oh, do you really need the Alt-Gr key for `?' and `!' ? Does that mean you don't use `C-c !' or that you rarely use it? Of course, this may have nothing to do with the keybinding itself,

Re: [O] [RFC] Proposal for rebindings in Org 8.3

2014-02-09 Thread Nick Dokos
Tim O'Callaghan t...@dspsrv.com writes: Rasmus ras...@gmx.us writes: For me the following keys need shift or Alt-Gr: ^, , `, !, ?, and ~. Oh, do you really need the Alt-Gr key for `?' and `!' ? Does that mean you don't use `C-c !' or that you rarely use it? Of course, this may have

Re: [O] [RFC] Proposal for rebindings in Org 8.3

2014-02-09 Thread Thomas S. Dye
Bastien b...@gnu.org writes: A few comments on the last three: - is not a punctuation character, I find C-c instead of C-c ' good. Is it true that is not a punctuation character? In any event, C-c is likely to pose the same problem as C-c '. For icicle users, C-c will be shadowed by

Re: [O] [RFC] Proposal for rebindings in Org 8.3

2014-02-08 Thread Bastien
Hi Nick, Nick Dokos ndo...@gmail.com writes: On a QWERTY keyboard or Dvorak keyboard, requires Shifting, so you have to switch horses midstream (first Control, then SHift). Not sure about anybody else, but those are the most problematic key sequences for me. I would much prefer C-c C-': you

Re: [O] [RFC] Proposal for rebindings in Org 8.3

2014-02-08 Thread Bastien
Hi Samuel, Samuel Wales samolog...@gmail.com writes: any sequence where one step is on one side and another step is on the other side is fine unless they are both shifted. I understand. I don't think any of the proposed rebindings requires this -- except C-c -- but C-c C-' is better anyway.

Re: [O] [RFC] Proposal for rebindings in Org 8.3

2014-02-08 Thread Bastien
Rasmus ras...@gmx.us writes: For me the following keys need shift or Alt-Gr: ^, , `, !, ?, and ~. Oh, do you really need the Alt-Gr key for `?' and `!' ? Does that mean you don't use `C-c !' or that you rarely use it? Of course, this may have nothing to do with the keybinding itself, but I'm

Re: [O] [RFC] Proposal for rebindings in Org 8.3

2014-02-08 Thread Bastien
Hi Michael, Michael Brand michael.ch.br...@gmail.com writes: With these two reasons my suggestion is to just drop the binding for (org-update-statistics-cookies). Agreed. If noone objects, I'll remove C-c #. -- Bastien

Re: [O] [RFC] Proposal for rebindings in Org 8.3

2014-02-08 Thread Samuel Wales
On 2/8/14, Bastien b...@gnu.org wrote: I understand. I don't think any of the proposed rebindings requires this -- except C-c -- but C-c C-' is better anyway. hi bastien, c-c c-' is just as bad. control is a modifier key. try it! samuel -- The Kafka Pandemic:

Re: [O] [RFC] Proposal for rebindings in Org 8.3

2014-02-08 Thread Samuel Wales
well, almost as bad :). you have to press shift also, but that's a minor difference :).

Re: [O] [RFC] Proposal for rebindings in Org 8.3

2014-02-08 Thread Bastien
Samuel Wales samolog...@gmail.com writes: c-c c-' is just as bad. control is a modifier key. try it! I tried it and for me it is better than C-c ' Anyway, let's try to find the best replacement. -- Bastien

Re: [O] [RFC] Proposal for rebindings in Org 8.3

2014-02-08 Thread Samuel Wales
hi bastien, i meant that c-c c-' and c-c c- are both cumbersome for those users who press c-c by holding down the control key with the right hand and then pressing c with the left hand. c-c ' is not cumbersome for those users. samuel -- The Kafka Pandemic: http://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com

[O] [RFC] Proposal for rebindings in Org 8.3

2014-02-07 Thread Bastien
The purpose is to be polite with minor modes and to not use C-c [:punct:] keybindings, as recommended in the Elisp manual. This is related to the issues reported here: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2014-01/msg00866.html http://article.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/82010 Here is

Re: [O] [RFC] Proposal for rebindings in Org 8.3

2014-02-07 Thread Sebastien Vauban
Bastien wrote: The purpose is to be polite with minor modes and to not use C-c [:punct:] keybindings, as recommended in the Elisp manual. This is related to the issues reported here: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2014-01/msg00866.html

Re: [O] [RFC] Proposal for rebindings in Org 8.3

2014-02-07 Thread Bastien
Thanks for your feedback. Sebastien Vauban sva-news-D0wtAvR13HarG/idocf...@public.gmane.org writes: - use C-c for selecting the whole subtree, which is consistent with the use of `' as a speedy command for doing the same. You put the finger on one important note to me: that speed

Re: [O] [RFC] Proposal for rebindings in Org 8.3

2014-02-07 Thread Michael Brand
Hi Bastien On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 11:32 AM, Bastien b...@gnu.org wrote: | C-c # | Checkboxes| C-c x| Free | I did not know C-c # (org-update-statistics-cookies) because for me it is easier to remember and therefore I always used this: Go to cookie and do

Re: [O] [RFC] Proposal for rebindings in Org 8.3

2014-02-07 Thread Nick Dokos
Bastien b...@gnu.org writes: The purpose is to be polite with minor modes and to not use C-c [:punct:] keybindings, as recommended in the Elisp manual. This is related to the issues reported here: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2014-01/msg00866.html

Re: [O] [RFC] Proposal for rebindings in Org 8.3

2014-02-07 Thread Rasmus
Nick Dokos ndo...@gmail.com writes: Bastien b...@gnu.org writes: The purpose is to be polite with minor modes and to not use C-c [:punct:] keybindings, as recommended in the Elisp manual. This is related to the issues reported here:

Re: [O] [RFC] Proposal for rebindings in Org 8.3

2014-02-07 Thread Samuel Wales
i'd like to point out that some of these bindings are problematic on qwerty in a way that is not obvious to many users. many people use shifting keys on both sides of the keyboard. they do not issue the control of control g using left hand. that is a bad idea. instead, they hold down the right