Re: [O] [beamer] When are :BEAMER_envargs: used or ignored?
James Harkins jamshar...@gmail.com writes:
At Wed, 25 Apr 2012 18:09:18 +0800,
James Harkins wrote:
Whether it should be a feature request or not is debatable. The syntax
is, at present, fairly straightforward in that the headline text becomes
the argument to the environment defined.
I think the headline text becomes the argument... is the opposite of
straightforward. :-)
OK, wait, I get it:
\begin{alertblock}{HEADLINE TEXT HERE}
\begin{beamercolorbox}{HEADLINE TEXT HERE}
OK, it's a consistent translation.
Yes.
But I still have the issue with it
that the user has to adapt the org-file structure to suit beamer's
requirements. Org-mode is all about reflecting the content in a way
that makes sense FIRST to humans, and only secondarily to exporting
engines.
I agree. However, the problems arise when exporting because of
fundamentally different structures between org and the export
target. This is why we have the various kludges (if people can forgive
me for calling them this) like ATTR_HTML and ATTR_LATEX. There is no
easy or elegant mechanism in org for satisfying all the different export
target requirements that are fundamentally inconsistent with org's
outline heritage.
For this particular case, it could be that the beamercolorbox
environment could be made to expect a specific PROPERTY, much like the
column environment does. The question would then be: what should the
headline be used for as beamercolorbox has no real text content
argument.
I would guess that if you could suggest a consistent and more elegant
solution, it would be considered favourably and maybe somebody would
take it up and implement it. No promises, however!
--
: Eric S Fraga (GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D) in Emacs 24.1.50.1
: using Org-mode version 7.8.06 (release_7.8.06.181.g67694.dirty)
Re: [O] [beamer] When are :BEAMER_envargs: used or ignored?
At Thu, 26 Apr 2012 17:44:56 +0930,
Eric Fraga wrote:
But I still have the issue with it
that the user has to adapt the org-file structure to suit beamer's
requirements. Org-mode is all about reflecting the content in a way
that makes sense FIRST to humans, and only secondarily to exporting
engines.
I agree. However, the problems arise when exporting because of
fundamentally different structures between org and the export
target. This is why we have the various kludges (if people can forgive
me for calling them this) like ATTR_HTML and ATTR_LATEX. There is no
easy or elegant mechanism in org for satisfying all the different export
target requirements that are fundamentally inconsistent with org's
outline heritage.
I understand. An elegant solution would take some mulling over (especially
considering that I've only recently started using the export features, and my
knowledge of LaTeX is superficial at best). In the meantime, I can live with
the current situation.
That the headline title is used for the color specification is probably not
such an unbearable thing in practice. How many color boxes are there likely to
be on one slide? (Meaning, if you're tempted to load up a slide with so many
color boxes that you get confused about the content, maybe the content needs to
be restructured.) If it's the only color box on the slide, quite likely you can
infer its content from the frame title or other headings nearby.
It just struck me as a loose end, and I'm glad I asked about it, because I have
a better understanding of the issues now.
For this particular case, it could be that the beamercolorbox
environment could be made to expect a specific PROPERTY, much like the
column environment does. The question would then be: what should the
headline be used for as beamercolorbox has no real text content
argument.
There are other beamer tags that don't use the headline text, namely quote and
quotation. According to the beamer user guide, there's no place for the
headline:
\begin{quote}action specification
environment contents
\end{quote}
Compared to
\begin{block}action specification{block title}action specification
environment contents
\end{block}
So, there is already a situation where you have to put some dummy text into the
headline that won't appear. Maybe there could be special handling for
title-less environments, so that the headline would become the environment
contents and colorbox could take its color from a property...
I would guess that if you could suggest a consistent and more elegant
solution, it would be considered favourably and maybe somebody would
take it up and implement it. No promises, however!
... but the elegance of that approach would be debatable, I suppose.
James
--
James Harkins /// dewdrop world
jamshar...@dewdrop-world.net
http://www.dewdrop-world.net
Come said the Muse,
Sing me a song no poet has yet chanted,
Sing me the universal. -- Whitman
blog: http://www.dewdrop-world.net/words
audio clips: http://www.dewdrop-world.net/audio
more audio: http://soundcloud.com/dewdrop_world/tracks
Re: [O] [beamer] When are :BEAMER_envargs: used or ignored?
Hi James,
James Harkins wrote:
At Thu, 26 Apr 2012 17:44:56 +0930,
Eric Fraga wrote:
But I still have the issue with it
that the user has to adapt the org-file structure to suit beamer's
requirements. Org-mode is all about reflecting the content in a way
that makes sense FIRST to humans, and only secondarily to exporting
engines.
I agree. However, the problems arise when exporting because of
fundamentally different structures between org and the export
target. This is why we have the various kludges (if people can forgive
me for calling them this) like ATTR_HTML and ATTR_LATEX. There is no
easy or elegant mechanism in org for satisfying all the different export
target requirements that are fundamentally inconsistent with org's
outline heritage.
I understand. An elegant solution would take some mulling over (especially
considering that I've only recently started using the export features, and my
knowledge of LaTeX is superficial at best). In the meantime, I can live with
the current situation.
That the headline title is used for the color specification is probably not
such an unbearable thing in practice. How many color boxes are there likely to
be on one slide? (Meaning, if you're tempted to load up a slide with so many
color boxes that you get confused about the content, maybe the content needs
to be restructured.) If it's the only color box on the slide, quite likely you
can infer its content from the frame title or other headings nearby.
It just struck me as a loose end, and I'm glad I asked about it, because I
have a better understanding of the issues now.
For this particular case, it could be that the beamercolorbox
environment could be made to expect a specific PROPERTY, much like the
column environment does. The question would then be: what should the
headline be used for as beamercolorbox has no real text content
argument.
There are other beamer tags that don't use the headline text, namely quote and
quotation. According to the beamer user guide, there's no place for the
headline:
\begin{quote}action specification
environment contents
\end{quote}
Compared to
\begin{block}action specification{block title}action specification
environment contents
\end{block}
So, there is already a situation where you have to put some dummy text into
the headline that won't appear.
And, in Org-Beamer, you have the explicit tag `b_ignore' as well, to ignore
the entry title, using the contents only.
Maybe there could be special handling for title-less environments, so that
the headline would become the environment contents and colorbox could take
its color from a property...
I don't find that a particularly attractive option, since you would end up
with very long headlines (often more than 80 characters) and you would not be
able to have multiline (or multiparagraph) contents.
Best regards,
Seb
--
Sebastien Vauban
Re: [O] [beamer] When are :BEAMER_envargs: used or ignored?
At Wed, 25 Apr 2012 18:09:18 +0800,
James Harkins wrote:
Whether it should be a feature request or not is debatable. The syntax
is, at present, fairly straightforward in that the headline text becomes
the argument to the environment defined.
I think the headline text becomes the argument... is the opposite of
straightforward. :-)
OK, wait, I get it:
\begin{alertblock}{HEADLINE TEXT HERE}
\begin{beamercolorbox}{HEADLINE TEXT HERE}
OK, it's a consistent translation. But I still have the issue with it that the
user has to adapt the org-file structure to suit beamer's requirements.
Org-mode is all about reflecting the content in a way that makes sense FIRST to
humans, and only secondarily to exporting engines.
hjh
--
James Harkins /// dewdrop world
jamshar...@dewdrop-world.net
http://www.dewdrop-world.net
Come said the Muse,
Sing me a song no poet has yet chanted,
Sing me the universal. -- Whitman
blog: http://www.dewdrop-world.net/words
audio clips: http://www.dewdrop-world.net/audio
more audio: http://soundcloud.com/dewdrop_world/tracks
Re: [O] [beamer] When are :BEAMER_envargs: used or ignored?
James Harkins jamshar...@gmail.com writes:
According to the online documentation [1], it seems
that :BEAMER_envargs: should apply to all Beamer environments:
And it does generally although I have tried setting it (for your example
below) to {ybg} and it disappears. If I set it to [ybg], it does appear
in the exported latex. I haven't delved into the beamer export code in
a long while but it must be checking for constructs of the form [...] or
..., I would guess.
In any case, addressing your real question:
[...]
Or, the simple question -- how do you set the colors of a color box in
Beamer export?
Oh, wait, I just figured it out... though you would have to admit,
this is not remotely obvious.
** Frame 2 \\ where we will not use columns
#+LaTeX: \setbeamercolor{ybg}{bg=yellow}
*** ybg :B_beamercolorbox:
Please test this stuff!
:PROPERTIES:
:BEAMER_env: beamercolorbox
:END:
It kind of strikes me like an epic hack: you have to name the headline
after the Beamer color ID, instead of naming the headline after the
content... not very /org/anized.
Well, the problem is that a beamercolorbox is *not* a block and does not
expect a title parameter. It actually expects only a colour (well, a
beamer colour structure, to be precise, such as the one you have
defined). What is /org/ expected to do with the entry you specify?
To achieve what you want (maybe, as I am not clear exactly what you want
;-), you should probably define a block *within* the beamercolorbox or
vice versa. For instance:
--8---cut here---start-8---
** Frame 2 \\ where we will not use columns
*** ybg:B_beamercolorbox:
:PROPERTIES:
:BEAMER_env: beamercolorbox
:END:
Title :B_block:
:PROPERTIES:
:BEAMER_env: block
:END:
Please test this stuff!
--8---cut here---end---8---
Worth a bug report or feature request?
It is not a bug, IMO.
Whether it should be a feature request or not is debatable. The syntax
is, at present, fairly straightforward in that the headline text becomes
the argument to the environment defined. What that environment does
with the argument is obviously up to the environment itself!
HTH,
eric
--
: Eric S Fraga (GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D) in Emacs 24.1.50.1
: using Org-mode version 7.8.06 (release_7.8.06.181.g67694.dirty)
[O] [beamer] When are :BEAMER_envargs: used or ignored?
According to the online documentation [1], it seems that :BEAMER_envargs:
should apply to all Beamer environments:
~~~
BEAMER_envargs
The beamer-special arguments that should be used for the environment, like
[t] or [+-] of 2-3. If the BEAMER_col property is also set, something like
C[t] can be added here as well to set an options argument for the implied
columns environment. c[t] or c2- will set an options for the implied column
environment.
~~~
This does work in the example presentation at [1], but it seems only for
B_block entries. I was trying to use B_beamercolorbox, where presumably the
color selections (fg=, bg=) should be environment arguments, but this is
ignored. What's more, if I take the colors out of the color box's envargs and
replace it with another argument syntax -- 2- -- that definitely works with
B_block, this is also ignored. So it seems, if you wanted to have a colorbox
appear in a later overlay, you would be screwed (would have to write the LaTeX
by hand).
A bit confused.
Or, the simple question -- how do you set the colors of a color box in Beamer
export?
Oh, wait, I just figured it out... though you would have to admit, this is not
remotely obvious.
** Frame 2 \\ where we will not use columns
#+LaTeX: \setbeamercolor{ybg}{bg=yellow}
*** ybg:B_beamercolorbox:
Please test this stuff!
:PROPERTIES:
:BEAMER_env: beamercolorbox
:END:
It kind of strikes me like an epic hack: you have to name the headline after
the Beamer color ID, instead of naming the headline after the content... not
very /org/anized.
Worth a bug report or feature request?
hjh
[1] http://orgmode.org/manual/Beamer-class-export.html
--
James Harkins /// dewdrop world
jamshar...@dewdrop-world.net
http://www.dewdrop-world.net
Come said the Muse,
Sing me a song no poet has yet chanted,
Sing me the universal. -- Whitman
blog: http://www.dewdrop-world.net/words
audio clips: http://www.dewdrop-world.net/audio
more audio: http://soundcloud.com/dewdrop_world/tracks
