Re: [O] New maintainer
Thanks for all of your hard work on org-mode Bastien! Watching you in action has taught me a great deal about good project/community leadership. If there's anything I can do to help with the transition, please let me know. Regards, Jason
Re: [O] New maintainer
Hi Bastien, Am 22.04.2013 00:39, schrieb Bastien: Hi Andreas, thanks for the kind words. The decision to step down after 8.0 was taken a long time ago, before the recent problems on the list. I had to find someone willing to step in before I could announce this. Okay, a good news in circumstances. I agree maintainer is not necessary a single person: my main purpose was to build a team, so that future maintainer(s) would feel okay to act as you suggest, for strategic decisions rather than everyday ground-level stuff. This position is easy to describe but difficult to hold, Precisely. because it depends so much on the community. This *is* the real challenge I see now: that each of us endorses some kind of responsability, some co-maintainership feeling, and act as constructively as possible---be it for org-mode, worg, the website or whatever. I already can feel some go in this direction and that's great :) Indeed. Nonetheless, WRT the amount of traffic IMHO having someone to range things a little bit before Carsten must tell will be a great advantage. Thanks all proving that great stuff, Andreas
Re: [O] New maintainer
I echo all the thanks that other people already gave. My digital life orbits around org-mode, so thanks to everyone who contributed to this project. Keep it up!! Julian -- Julian Mariano Burgos, PhD Hafrannsóknastofnunin/Marine Research Institute Skúlagata 4, 121 Reykjavík, Iceland Sími/Telephone : +354-5752037 Bréfsími/Telefax: +354-5752001 Netfang/Email: jul...@hafro.is Bastien writes: Dear all, I'm stepping down as the Org maintainer. Carsten accepted to step up, if the community agrees. Please raise your thumbs up or your concerns, if any. I'm glad I had this opportunity to work as Robin and I'm even more glad Batman may strike back! :)
Re: [O] New maintainer
On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 6:27 AM, Julian M. Burgos jul...@hafro.is wrote: I echo all the thanks that other people already gave. My digital life orbits around org-mode, so thanks to everyone who contributed to this project. Keep it up!! Julian I have been watching these multiple messages go by trying to find a space to get a word in edgewise, but instead of waiting longer let me just say now: I am sorry to see you step down, Bastien, but also, I am happy about your bright future ahead. Congratulations! on a job very well done! Regards, -- Jay
Re: [O] New maintainer
Just echoing what everyone else has said: Bastien, your tenure at the helm has just been fabulous. 8.0 is just an amazing release and org already just amazingly great has become even better. Carsten, it's so generous for you to come back to this project to which you have already devoted so much energy. No other tool I use has had such a great pair of lead developers or such an open and helpful community. thank you both! Matt
Re: [O] New maintainer
Jambunathan K kjambunat...@gmail.com writes: Well, the FSF's intention here is to make sure that contributors report back when they change employers, and the new employer doesn't want that his employees contribute to some GNU project (maybe because that project is in the same business as the company). So I think of that more of a safety measure in order not to run into long-running, painful lawsuits. You are missing out an important aspect - that of enforcement. An organization will most likely choose to enforce but an RJH (like me) won't. That is, the employer can (presumably) send his lawyer to a the court with the employment contract and say Employee can assign rights (and FSF can very well accept it). But the assignation has no legal validity because it is not within employee's right to do so. Employee himself agreed that he will abide by whatever while on our pay. We are asserting and enforcing our position now. For an assignment to have legal validity, multiple parties - FSF, contributor and contributor's employer - should *converge*. When there is no convergence of *all* parties , the assignment stands on weaker grounds. Standing on weaker ground is precisely what FSF wants to avoid at all costs. Jambunathan K.
Re: [O] New maintainer
Thank you for your hard work, Bastien. You've done a fantastic job under unusually adversarial conditions. On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 9:53 AM, Bastien b...@gnu.org wrote: Dear all, I'm stepping down as the Org maintainer. Carsten accepted to step up, if the community agrees. Please raise your thumbs up or your concerns, if any. I'm glad I had this opportunity to work as Robin and I'm even more glad Batman may strike back! :) -- Bastien
Re: [O] New maintainer
Bastien b...@gnu.org writes: Dear all, I'm stepping down as the Org maintainer. Carsten accepted to step up, if the community agrees. Please raise your thumbs up or your concerns, if any. I'm glad I had this opportunity to work as Robin and I'm even more glad Batman may strike back! :) Hats off, Bastien, it was deftly done. It's also been a pleasure to witness the surprisingly successful marriage of two different coding styles: Bastien's damn-the-torpedoes patch-the-SOB-and-get-it-out-the-door approach, matched with Nicolas' return to first principles: structure and cleanliness. I'm quite convinced that the two approaches have been equally essential to Org mode's current success (and advance apologies for any perceived mischaracterizations!). I'm one of the post-Carsten young'uns, but I can't imagine we'll have any complaints with the man who started it all... Eric
Re: [O] New maintainer
On 21.4.2013, at 10:06, Jambunathan K kjambunat...@gmail.com wrote: Jambunathan K kjambunat...@gmail.com writes: Well, the FSF's intention here is to make sure that contributors report back when they change employers, and the new employer doesn't want that his employees contribute to some GNU project (maybe because that project is in the same business as the company). So I think of that more of a safety measure in order not to run into long-running, painful lawsuits. You are missing out an important aspect - that of enforcement. An organization will most likely choose to enforce but an RJH (like me) won't. That is, the employer can (presumably) send his lawyer to a the court with the employment contract and say Employee can assign rights (and FSF can very well accept it). But the assignation has no legal validity because it is not within employee's right to do so. Employee himself agreed that he will abide by whatever while on our pay. We are asserting and enforcing our position now. For an assignment to have legal validity, multiple parties - FSF, contributor and contributor's employer - should *converge*. When there is no convergence of *all* parties , the assignment stands on weaker grounds. Standing on weaker ground is precisely what FSF wants to avoid at all costs. Jambunathan K. This discussion is now considered off-topic for this list. Please take it elsewhere. - Carsten
Re: [O] New maintainer
Eric Abrahamsen e...@ericabrahamsen.net writes: It's also been a pleasure to witness the surprisingly successful marriage of two different coding styles: Bastien's damn-the-torpedoes patch-the-SOB-and-get-it-out-the-door approach, matched with Nicolas' return to first principles: structure and cleanliness. I'm quite convinced that the two approaches have been equally essential to Org mode's current success (and advance apologies for any perceived mischaracterizations!). Yeah. Let me quote Jamie Zawinski's interview from Coders at work: Zawinski: [...] It's great to rewrite your code and make it cleaner and by the third time it'll actually be pretty. But that's not the point---you're not here to write code, you're here to ship products. Seibel: Folks engaged in overengineering usually say, Well, once I've got this framework in place everything will be easy after that. So I'll actually save time by doing this. Zawinski: That is always the theory. Seibel: And there are times when that theory is true, when someone has good sense and the framework isn't too elaborate, and it does save time. I actually agree with both points of view, especially with the last sentence. And it's easy to play jwz when you can trust someone for playing the other role :) -- Bastien
Re: [O] New maintainer
Bastien b...@gnu.org writes: Eric Abrahamsen e...@ericabrahamsen.net writes: It's also been a pleasure to witness the surprisingly successful marriage of two different coding styles: Bastien's damn-the-torpedoes patch-the-SOB-and-get-it-out-the-door approach, matched with Nicolas' return to first principles: structure and cleanliness. I'm quite convinced that the two approaches have been equally essential to Org mode's current success (and advance apologies for any perceived mischaracterizations!). Yeah. Let me quote Jamie Zawinski's interview from Coders at work: Zawinski: [...] It's great to rewrite your code and make it cleaner and by the third time it'll actually be pretty. But that's not the point---you're not here to write code, you're here to ship products. Seibel: Folks engaged in overengineering usually say, Well, once I've got this framework in place everything will be easy after that. So I'll actually save time by doing this. Zawinski: That is always the theory. Seibel: And there are times when that theory is true, when someone has good sense and the framework isn't too elaborate, and it does save time. I actually agree with both points of view, especially with the last sentence. And it's easy to play jwz when you can trust someone for playing the other role :) And, without re-opening any tedious discussions that we've already put behind us, it's generally the person playing the jwz role who ends up as maintainer -- and that's probably as it should be.
Re: [O] New maintainer
Am 18.04.2013 18:53, schrieb Bastien: Dear all, I'm stepping down as the Org maintainer. Carsten accepted to step up, if the community agrees. Please raise your thumbs up or your concerns, if any. I'm glad I had this opportunity to work as Robin and I'm even more glad Batman may strike back! :) Hi Bastien, have been afk for some days, please let me close up to all thanks seen here. What's have been quite impressive already was the pure amount of mailings, you delt with day by day. Having seen you working that hard also raises some concern for now: that daily galeere must be costly: whoever undertakes it, will pay a price. It's your honor having payed it for all of us. So far can't consider this stepping down anything else as a loss for org-mode. While ignoring circumstances of your resign, it's no secret, some unpleasant events happended last weeks, made your task more burdensome as necessary. I'm not speaking of possible errors - everyone who works will make errors. Who works outstanding might make outstanding errors. Purely abstractly spoken(!) OTHO the very best mind a team has --i.e. Carsten--, should not take the most burdensome tasks. IMHO Carsten should be spared for strategic decisions, define and decide the path of further development. In case you didn't lose your interest and just that recent unpleasant experiences caused your resign, what about staying maintainer backed by all this confidence revealed beside of some new experience? Also maintainer must not mean being strictly a single person, even if languages grammar doesn't foresee otherwise. Regarding recent difficulties, probably it's wise, if Carsten has a closer look, decides in cases from time to time. IIUC Emacs itself was driven in a similar way last years more or less outspoken - consider this part of it's success story. Best regards, Andreas
Re: [O] New maintainer
Bastien bzg at gnu.org writes: Dear all, I'm stepping down as the Org maintainer. Carsten accepted to step up, if the community agrees. Please raise your thumbs up or your concerns, if any. I'm glad I had this opportunity to work as Robin and I'm even more glad Batman may strike back! :) Dear Bastien, I too would like to express my thanks for all your hard work in keeping org running smoothly over the last couple of years, and unfailing (preternatural) graciousness even in the face of personal and unprofessional attacks. I hope you are leaving of your own volition. Illegitimi non carborundum. I am also grateful to Carsten for his great contributions of Org, reftex and cdlatex, and happy to hear he will be taking over. AG
Re: [O] New maintainer
Hi Andreas, thanks for the kind words. The decision to step down after 8.0 was taken a long time ago, before the recent problems on the list. I had to find someone willing to step in before I could announce this. I agree maintainer is not necessary a single person: my main purpose was to build a team, so that future maintainer(s) would feel okay to act as you suggest, for strategic decisions rather than everyday ground-level stuff. This position is easy to describe but difficult to hold, because it depends so much on the community. This *is* the real challenge I see now: that each of us endorses some kind of responsability, some co-maintainership feeling, and act as constructively as possible---be it for org-mode, worg, the website or whatever. I already can feel some go in this direction and that's great :) -- Bastien
Re: [O] New maintainer
Tassilo Horn t...@gnu.org writes: Jambunathan K kjambunat...@gmail.com writes: How do you interpret the following block extracted from my assignment , | 2. Developer will report occasionally, on Developer’s initiative | and whenever requested by FSF, the changes and/ or enhancements | which are covered by this contract, and (to the extent known to ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ | Developer) any outstanding rights, or claims of rights, of any | person, that might be adverse to the rights of Developer or FSF | or to the purpose of this contract. ` Well, the FSF's intention here is to make sure that contributors report back when they change employers, and the new employer doesn't want that his employees contribute to some GNU project (maybe because that project is in the same business as the company). So I think of that more of a safety measure in order not to run into long-running, painful lawsuits. Your interpretation is too narrow. The phrase and (marked above) there makes all the difference. My reading of the above para and Richard's response down below are consistent. , http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2013-04/msg00066.html | If a contributor wants to specify precisely which changes are | assigned, he, she or it can talk with the FSF about it. We can | work something out. However, we'd prefer to be able to use all of | someone's changes without specific arrangements. ` FSF clearly side-steps the important question - when is a work actually assigned. Assignment is not a process but an event tied to specific time and date. As far as I understand it (just after reading one of my FSF CAs), the changes you apply to a program where you've assigned past future changes are assigned as soon as they are written. They don't need to be published, distributed, placed in a special repository location, etc. Assignment of rights is for the purpose of defending GPL. It is *not* and *cannot* be an annexation policy. What you state above amounts to annexation policy. Assignment of rights is my prerogative. I can do it selectively or cancel it. FSF cannot interfere with what is an individual decision. I will only quote an authoritative and responsible source. Focus on last sentence in the below quote. , http://lwn.net/Articles/543436/ | | Anyway, it's unfortunate the Corbet's article above doesn't | reiterate the advantages of assigning to FSF to | developers. Specifically, the FSF takes on the obligation of being | the publisher of the code (which can sometimes be a dangerous act | in today's world), and also, FSF handles enforcement of the GPL | for the codebase. Finally, FSF gives a liberal license back to the | developer (i.e., Jambunathan could have always made proprietary | software out of his own assigned works after doing the | assignment), and FSF further promises never to publish a | proprietary version of the software itself. | ` I interpret proprietary above to mean any work (available to public, it is GPL right?) that is not part of Emacs distribution. Theoretically speaking, it is OK to have future assignment in place *and* have works that are assigned, as well as non-assigned *simultaneously*. If a work is not part of Emacs, then it is not assigned to FSF. Simple and practical definition. It is also important to note that the above paragraph from a FSF board member is in some conflict with RMS's own claim. , http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2013-03/msg00409.html | | A diff for Emacs is always a change to Emacs. I will think about | the questions raised by a separate Lisp file. | ` In my opinion, the most appropriate thing to state would be A diff to Emacs submitted to the official channels of the suite - either the maintainer, mailing list or bug subsystem, *unless stated otherwise* is potentially part of Emacs, in a non-revocable way. It will be inappropriate for anyone to claim, my local changes to doc-view.el that I share with a co-worker is a diff to Emacs and hence part of Emacs. A change is either part of Emacs or not. When I say Emacs, I mean the official GNU Emacs distributed from gnu.org. Now the primary part of current dispute is that it falls in a grey area 1. My files are new. 2. Org in Emacs Bzr trunk is not the same as Org outside of Emacs trunk. One is part of Emacs while the other is not part of Emacs. There is a clear dichotomy here. It is easy to answer Is this file part of Emacs? with a Yes or No. Saying that a file is intended to be part of Emacs is
Re: [O] New maintainer
On 18/04/13 22:52, Tom Davey wrote: Hi everybody, I'm just an Org user, one of the many anonymous persons who have benefited from this fantastic piece of software. Over the past two years I have come to use Org every day, all day long, more than any other application with the possible exception of a Web browser. It's hard to overestimate the value I receive from Org, the sheer personal effectiveness I've gained. Bastien, a thousand thanks for your work as maintainer. Thanks as well to all the other skillful and creative programmers on this list who make org continually more powerful and astonishing. Especial thanks to Carsten, both for the past and now in advance as the new maintainer. With grateful regards to all, Tom Davey Me too:) Many thanks to Bastien for all his hard work and for patiently answering questions and fixing bugs. Also welcome back to Carsten! Best wishes, Ian.
Re: [O] New maintainer
Hi Bastien, thank you very very much for maintaining org-mode for the last two years. You did a great job maintaining org-mode and keeping its community together. I agree with everything Carsten says in his mail Changing the maintainer. While I am happy it is Carsten of all people who takes up the maintainership, at the same time I'm very sorry you are stepping down. Best regards Robert On 04/18/2013 06:53 PM, Bastien wrote: Dear all, I'm stepping down as the Org maintainer. Carsten accepted to step up, if the community agrees. Please raise your thumbs up or your concerns, if any. I'm glad I had this opportunity to work as Robin and I'm even more glad Batman may strike back! :) -- Robert Klein - Max Planck-Institut für Polymerforschung Ackermannweg 10 55128 Mainz
Re: [O] New maintainer
Bastien, What the others said... Thanks for all your work! It's been a pleasure to follow Org-mode. Yours, Christian Bastien writes: Dear all, I'm stepping down as the Org maintainer. Carsten accepted to step up, if the community agrees. Please raise your thumbs up or your concerns, if any. I'm glad I had this opportunity to work as Robin and I'm even more glad Batman may strike back! :)
Re: [O] New maintainer
On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 12:24:46AM +, Charles Berry wrote: Bastien bzg at gnu.org writes: Dear all, I'm stepping down as the Org maintainer. You have done an awesome job. This is still the friendliest little town on the internet thanks to your patience and good judgment in no small part. Indeed! Thanks a lot :). And welcome back Carsten. :) -- Suvayu Open source is the future. It sets us free.
Re: [O] New maintainer
Jambunathan K kjambunat...@gmail.com writes: How do you interpret the following block extracted from my assignment , | 2. Developer will report occasionally, on Developer’s initiative | and whenever requested by FSF, the changes and/ or enhancements | which are covered by this contract, and (to the extent known to | Developer) any outstanding rights, or claims of rights, of any | person, that might be adverse to the rights of Developer or FSF | or to the purpose of this contract. ` Well, the FSF's intention here is to make sure that contributors report back when they change employers, and the new employer doesn't want that his employees contribute to some GNU project (maybe because that project is in the same business as the company). So I think of that more of a safety measure in order not to run into long-running, painful lawsuits. FSF clearly side-steps the important question - when is a work actually assigned. Assignment is not a process but an event tied to specific time and date. As far as I understand it (just after reading one of my FSF CAs), the changes you apply to a program where you've assigned past future changes are assigned as soon as they are written. They don't need to be published, distributed, placed in a special repository location, etc. Bye, Tassilo
Re: [O] New maintainer
Bastien b...@gnu.org writes: I'm stepping down as the Org maintainer. Thats bad news, managing Org-mode appears like such a huge task, and I always wondered how you were able to deal with all those mails and patches and bugs with such efficiency, and detailled knowledge about all those unnumerable features of Org-mode. Carsten accepted to step up Luckily the good news are attached to the bad news. -- cheers, Thorsten
Re: [O] New maintainer
Hi Bastien, I'd like to thank you for the fabulous job you've done as maintainer. Best wishes, Sean On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 5:53 PM, Bastien b...@gnu.org wrote: Dear all, I'm stepping down as the Org maintainer. Carsten accepted to step up, if the community agrees. Please raise your thumbs up or your concerns, if any. I'm glad I had this opportunity to work as Robin and I'm even more glad Batman may strike back! :) -- Bastien
Re: [O] New maintainer
Bastien b...@gnu.org wrote: Hi Bastien, I'm stepping down as the Org maintainer. Thank you for all the hard work you have done in maintaining Org-mode. Carsten accepted to step up, if the community agrees. Please raise your thumbs up or your concerns, if any. +1 Charles -- Sent from Kaiten Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [O] New maintainer
Hi Bastien, Thank you for your hard work and efforts as org-mode-maintainer, Carsten accepted to step up, if the community agrees. nice, thank you Carsten! cheers -- Adolfo Benedetti M +31 614 706 176 2013/4/19 Charles Philip Chan cpc...@bell.net Bastien b...@gnu.org wrote: Hi Bastien, I'm stepping down as the Org maintainer. Thank you for all the hard work you have done in maintaining Org-mode. Carsten accepted to step up, if the community agrees. Please raise your thumbs up or your concerns, if any. +1 Charles -- Sent from Kaiten Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [O] New maintainer
Am 18.04.2013 18:53, schrieb Bastien: Dear all, I'm stepping down as the Org maintainer. Carsten accepted to step up, if the community agrees. Please raise your thumbs up or your concerns, if any. I'm glad I had this opportunity to work as Robin and I'm even more glad Batman may strike back! :) Bastien, let me also thank you so much for your great work and patience answering so many questions! A lot of questions and ideas I had you simply answered by coding the solution - awesome! I think you did a very good job and I hope you will stay in the newsgroup in the future. Carsten, welcome back! Rainer
Re: [O] New maintainer
On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 06:53:32PM +0200, Bastien wrote: Dear all, I'm stepping down as the Org maintainer. Carsten accepted to step up, if the community agrees. Please raise your thumbs up or your concerns, if any. I'm glad I had this opportunity to work as Robin and I'm even more glad Batman may strike back! Bastien, You've done an excellent job. Your patience has been incredible, and Org has prospered. Take a break, you deserve it! 8.0 looks amazing, and I'm excited to see what the community has created. Org certainly has the benefit of many talented coders. Thanks! -- Russell Adamsrlad...@adamsinfoserv.com PGP Key ID: 0x1160DCB3 http://www.adamsinfoserv.com/ Fingerprint:1723 D8CA 4280 1EC9 557F 66E8 1154 E018 1160 DCB3
Re: [O] New maintainer
You've done great work Bastien! And I look forward to Batman Returns! Bastien writes: Dear all, I'm stepping down as the Org maintainer. Carsten accepted to step up, if the community agrees. Please raise your thumbs up or your concerns, if any. I'm glad I had this opportunity to work as Robin and I'm even more glad Batman may strike back! :)
[O] New maintainer
Dear all, I'm stepping down as the Org maintainer. Carsten accepted to step up, if the community agrees. Please raise your thumbs up or your concerns, if any. I'm glad I had this opportunity to work as Robin and I'm even more glad Batman may strike back! :) -- Bastien
Re: [O] New maintainer
Carsten accepted to step up, if the community agrees. Please raise your thumbs up or your concerns, if any. To the new maintainer, My changes to ox-html.el and ox-odt.el are not assigned to FSF. So please correct the headers of these file to reflect the reality. Also be respectful of my wish and refrain from merging my changes to Emacs. It is a polite request. Write to me if you have questions. Jambunathan K.
Re: [O] New maintainer
Bastien b...@gnu.org writes: I'm stepping down as the Org maintainer. Carsten accepted to step up, if the community agrees. Please raise your thumbs up or your concerns, if any. I'm glad I had this opportunity to work as Robin and I'm even more glad Batman may strike back! A huge thumbs up from this extremely grateful user! And an equally huge thank you, Bastien, for shouldering the burden of maintainership, for the diligence with which you have handled the task (and the hundreds/thousands of emails which have kept the project moving) and maybe above all for your patience and steadfastness under totally unmerited fire. with all good wishes Glyn
Re: [O] New maintainer
On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Jambunathan K kjambunat...@gmail.com wrote: Carsten accepted to step up, if the community agrees. Please raise your thumbs up or your concerns, if any. To the new maintainer, My changes to ox-html.el and ox-odt.el are not assigned to FSF. So please correct the headers of these file to reflect the reality. Also be respectful of my wish and refrain from merging my changes to Emacs. It is a polite request. Write to me if you have questions. I'd like some definitive resolution to this issue or list-wide understanding of where things are at. I've been trying to follow your saga, and my understanding is: - You signed over contribution rights to FSF at one point. Is this correct? - You have contacted FSF (or Emacs?) and requested that these rights be revoked/reversed? - Has the FSF (or Emacs?) provided any statement/ruling on whether or not they will honor your request? I hear you, and you definitely make it known that you would like to undo what you once did... but my perception is that your emails speak as though there is no agreement in place at all... but you *did* sign the contract at one point, right? I've not contributed to code, so I've never seen the FSF papers and don't really know what they entail... but if they are signing away rights to future contributions, it would seem that your work is under that umbrella until *they* provide confirmation that the umbrella no longer exists (*and* no longer exists retroactively). Just trying to reconcile my understanding of your situation with how you write about it. Thanks, John Jambunathan K.
Re: [O] New maintainer
Please let's not reopen this issue. Jambunathan signed the FSF copyright assignment for his past and future changes to Emacs code. He claims that he can retract this assignment for changes he made against some Emacs files. FSF says this is not possible. And it does not take too big a brain to understand why: if people were allowed to retract their assignment when they want for changes that have been published, the copyright assignment process would undermine the whole purpose of the GPL license, which is to make it possible to let *others* contribute to free code. If there were a problem, it would be a problem for Emacs, not for upstream Org-mode, which can include any GPL code. But there is no problem. Just someone upset, in bad need for a ban. -- Bastien
Re: [O] New maintainer
The king is dead, long live the king! :-) Thank you, Bastien, for all the work! And thank you, Carsten, for all the work to come! Detlef On Thu, 18 Apr 2013 18:53:32 +0200 Bastien b...@gnu.org wrote: Dear all, I'm stepping down as the Org maintainer. Carsten accepted to step up, if the community agrees. Please raise your thumbs up or your concerns, if any. I'm glad I had this opportunity to work as Robin and I'm even more glad Batman may strike back! :) -- Bastien
Re: [O] New maintainer
Hi Bastien, 2013ko apirilak 18an, Bastien-ek idatzi zuen: [...] I'm glad I had this opportunity to work as Robin and I'm even more glad Batman may strike back! Just as Batman and Robin are often seen together, I hope you’ll continue to be a presence in the org community. I always appreciate the helpfulness and patience that you embody. Thanks, -- Aaron Ecay
Re: [O] New maintainer
Rasmus ras...@gmx.us writes: I expect you will still be around the mailing list, no? I'll focus on something else, but I'll stick around for sure, at least to ask questions and report bugs! -- Bastien
Re: [O] New maintainer
Bastien b...@gnu.org writes: Please raise your thumbs up or your concerns, if any. Bastien, your maintainership has been just outstanding, so far that I could judge. You're among the great maintainers I happened to meet, and I tremendously enjoyed your way of driving the project. Let me thank you for it all. I wish Carsten will get, from all of us — OK! given a proper email kill file :-) — the same level of good will, enthusiasm and collaboration we have seen on this user group all along for the recent year. François
Re: [O] New maintainer
Bastien b...@gnu.org writes: And it does not take too big a brain to understand why: if people were allowed to retract their assignment when they want for changes that have been published, the copyright assignment process would undermine the whole purpose of the GPL license, which is to make it possible to let *others* contribute to free code. As a maintainer of GNU project, I expect that you should have a basic understanding of the purpose of the copyright assignment and GPL license. From what I read above, I am not convinced that you have the right understanding. Your articulation is clearly confusing and falling short. See http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#AssignCopyright You assign copyright to FSF so that you don't have to enforce GPL. By assigning, one outsources the legal work of actual enforcing to FSF. Single holder of rights just makes the legal procedures lot more easy. A contract that cannot be enforced is worthless. A license that you cannot enforce is equally so. FSF says, assign me the rights, I will go after all the violators and force them to comply with GPL. Jambunathan K.
Re: [O] New maintainer
Just trying to reconcile my understanding of your situation with how you write about it. This post (not by me) summarizes my position well. http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2013-04/msg00096.html I have also criticized FSF's arbitrary handling of my request here. http://lwn.net/Articles/547737/ If you move over to emacs-devel, you will see some of the commenters there are very guarded in their response. It will only go on to show that I raise valid questions. People who have flamed me cannot differentiate between oranges and lemons. It is not their work that is at stake. So they can just call me a troll and dismiss the broader questions I am raising. Jambunathan K.
Re: [O] New maintainer
Jambunathan K writes: Bastien b...@gnu.org writes: And it does not take too big a brain to understand why: if people were allowed to retract their assignment when they want for changes that have been published, the copyright assignment process would undermine the whole purpose of the GPL license, which is to make it possible to let *others* contribute to free code. As a maintainer of GNU project, I expect that you should have a basic understanding of the purpose of the copyright assignment and GPL license. From what I read above, I am not convinced that you have the right understanding. Your articulation is clearly confusing and falling short. As a former teacher of copyright law (University of Sydney), I think that Bastien displays a very clear understanding of the effects of copyright assignment. Your understanding is less than clear. Bastien gets a Distinction in my class. You do not. Of course, I know that you will think that I am confused. Bastien, thanks for your patience and help during your time in the hotseat. You've done a marvelous job. See http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#AssignCopyright You assign copyright to FSF so that you don't have to enforce GPL. By assigning, one outsources the legal work of actual enforcing to FSF. Single holder of rights just makes the legal procedures lot more easy. A contract that cannot be enforced is worthless. A license that you cannot enforce is equally so. FSF says, assign me the rights, I will go after all the violators and force them to comply with GPL. Jambunathan K. -- Alan L Tyree http://www2.austlii.edu.au/~alan Tel: 04 2748 6206 sip:172...@iptel.org
Re: [O] New maintainer
Bastien writes: Carsten accepted to step up, if the community agrees. Please raise your thumbs up or your concerns, if any. Thumbs up! And thank you so much for what you did. Alan
Re: [O] New maintainer
Aloha Bastien, Bastien b...@gnu.org writes: Dear all, I'm stepping down as the Org maintainer. Thank you for your excellent work as maintainer. I'm pleased to have had the opportunity to work with you. Carsten accepted to step up, if the community agrees. Please raise your thumbs up or your concerns, if any. Yes, thumbs up. I'm glad I had this opportunity to work as Robin and I'm even more glad Batman may strike back! You should be proud that you're giving back a much improved piece of software. From my point of view, the new exporter framework is a huge step forward. Congratulations! All the best, Tom -- Thomas S. Dye http://www.tsdye.com
Re: [O] New maintainer
Hi Thomas, t...@tsdye.com (Thomas S. Dye) writes: Thank you for your excellent work as maintainer. I'm pleased to have had the opportunity to work with you. Having you improve the documentation while Nicolas and I were hard working on it was a great relief, thanks again for that. You should be proud that you're giving back a much improved piece of software. From my point of view, the new exporter framework is a huge step forward. Congratulations! Yes -- I second Carsten's surprise that someone was crazy enough to undertake this enormous work. And its potential still waits to be completely unfold! -- Bastien
Re: [O] New maintainer
Jambunathan K writes: Alan L Tyree alanty...@gmail.com writes: Of course, I know that you will think that I am confused. You are not only confused. You are in hurry and in grave error. I thought so. Thanks so much for clearing this up for me. I am quoting an extract of Bastien's words, the copyright assignment process would undermine the whole purpose of the GPL license It is wrong to say copyright assigment will undermine the purpose of GPL license. Copyright assignment is there to bolster the enforcement of GPL. I provided a reference. My claim is that there is no assignment. Because out of my own initiative I informed FSF that this work is not covered by contract and also cancelled the assignment. How do you interpret the following block extracted from my assignment , | 2. Developer will report occasionally, on Developer’s initiative | and whenever requested by FSF, the changes and/ or enhancements | which are covered by this contract, and (to the extent known to | Developer) any outstanding rights, or claims of rights, of any | person, that might be adverse to the rights of Developer or FSF | or to the purpose of this contract. ` FSF clearly side-steps the important question - when is a work actually assigned. Assignment is not a process but an event tied to specific time and date. Will you disagree if I claim - The intent to act is not the act itself. Replacement act with whatever. Jambunathan K. -- Alan L Tyree http://www2.austlii.edu.au/~alan Tel: 04 2748 6206 sip:172...@iptel.org
Re: [O] New maintainer
Hello Bastien, On 18 April 2013 12:53, Bastien b...@gnu.org wrote: Dear all, I'm stepping down as the Org maintainer. Thank you for all the work you've done. Carsten accepted to step up, if the community agrees. Please raise your thumbs up or your concerns, if any. Thumbs up from me as well. I'm glad I had this opportunity to work as Robin and I'm even more glad Batman may strike back! :) -- Bastien -- Jon
Re: [O] New maintainer
Hi everybody, I'm just an Org user, one of the many anonymous persons who have benefited from this fantastic piece of software. Over the past two years I have come to use Org every day, all day long, more than any other application with the possible exception of a Web browser. It's hard to overestimate the value I receive from Org, the sheer personal effectiveness I've gained. Bastien, a thousand thanks for your work as maintainer. Thanks as well to all the other skillful and creative programmers on this list who make org continually more powerful and astonishing. Especial thanks to Carsten, both for the past and now in advance as the new maintainer. With grateful regards to all, Tom Davey -- Tom Davey t...@tomdavey.com New York NY USA
Re: [O] New maintainer
Bastien bzg at gnu.org writes: Dear all, I'm stepping down as the Org maintainer. You have done an awesome job. This is still the friendliest little town on the internet thanks to your patience and good judgment in no small part. And 8.0 is a fine product. Carsten accepted to step up, if the community agrees. Please raise your thumbs up or your concerns, if any. +2 thumbs Gmane requires me to type the capcha 'uplift' to send this message. How appropriate! All the Best,
Re: [O] New maintainer
Bastien b...@gnu.org writes: Dear all, I'm stepping down as the Org maintainer. Carsten accepted to step up, if the community agrees. Please raise your thumbs up or your concerns, if any. I'm glad I had this opportunity to work as Robin and I'm even more glad Batman may strike back! :) Dear Bastien and Carsten, Thanks, Bastien, for doing an awesome job as the org-mode maintainer these past few years. You had a huge job filling Carsten's shoes and you did an excellent job. I really appreciate all of the work you have done as our org-mode maintainer and hope you will continue to contribute in the future. Welcome back Carsten! Please let us know how we can help make your job easier. None of us have infinite time to devote to this excellent project but I'm sure we can help lessen the burden that maintaining this beast must be. I use this awesome tool everyday and really appreciate the thought and effort put into making org-mode the fabulous tool that it is. /me can't draw two thumbs up in Ascii without making it look obscene ;) Warmest regards, Bernt
Re: [O] New maintainer
Hello Bastien, Thanks a lot for the great work so far. You are the best. On Apr 19 2013, Bastien b...@gnu.org wrote: Dear all, I'm stepping down as the Org maintainer. Carsten accepted to step up, if the community agrees. Please raise your thumbs up or your concerns, if any. I'm glad I had this opportunity to work as Robin and I'm even more glad Batman may strike back! :) Thanks., -- ఎందరో మహానుభావులు అందరికి వందనములు. YYR
Re: [O] New maintainer
Bastien, I use org-mode every day and it is really great to see that this project is always growing. You did an excellent job taking this to 8.0. Carsten, Welcome back and looking forward to 8.x Thanks and Regards Noorul On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 10:23 PM, Bastien b...@gnu.org wrote: Dear all, I'm stepping down as the Org maintainer. Carsten accepted to step up, if the community agrees. Please raise your thumbs up or your concerns, if any. I'm glad I had this opportunity to work as Robin and I'm even more glad Batman may strike back! :) -- Bastien
Re: [O] New maintainer for MobileOrg on iOS
Hi Richard, I am just begin to watch the project after it expire right the time T.T There is so many iOS apps live without App Store. They just release on their own website. I found that you open the source. Maybe you can have a try to post in news list (or HackerNews?) to transfer ownership of the repository? Since you do not have Mac any more? Feel sorry again to know it stopped developing. -- Ranmocy Sheng
Re: [O] New maintainer for MobileOrg on iOS
I hope this is not a stupid question, but will the app eventually fail? Andre It is not what happens to you, but your response that determines your character.
[O] New maintainer for MobileOrg on iOS
I'm looking for someone to take over maintaining MobileOrg for iOS. My iOS Developer subscription ($99/yr) is about to expire on September 7, and I'm hoping I can find someone who may be interested in iOS development to carry it forward before then. I also just got a notification from Dropbox that the API version I'm using will be retired in December 2012, so there would be that small amount of work involved to keep it up to date. I don't have a Mac or iPhone anymore, but I'm happy to help anyone who's willing to get up to speed with it. If you're interested, please let me know. Thanks, Richard
