Re: [Orgmode] another GTD question from dto
David O'Toole [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This gives in the agenda: dto: Scheduled: NEXT Chapter 5 dto: Scheduled: NEXT Chapter 1 Without any indication which book the chapters are from. Can I fix this with properties or tags or categories or something? I always try to put enough information in a task headline to make it unambiguous. This is more GTD, I think, but it's also a bit more manual. -- +---+ | Jason F. McBrayer[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | If someone conquers a thousand times a thousand others in | | battle, and someone else conquers himself, the latter one | | is the greatest of all conquerors. --- The Dhammapada| ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] another GTD question from dto
David O'Toole [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Without any indication which book the chapters are from. Can I fix this with properties or tags or categories or something? , | * Books | ** TODO Read Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus | :PROPERTIES: | :CATEGORY: TLP | :END: | | *** DONE Find out about Wittgenstein's notation | *** NEXT Chapter 5 | *** TODO Chapter 6 | *** TODO Chapter 7 | *** TODO Review entire book | *** MAYBE [[...][Spoken mathematics]] | ** TODO Read The Analysis of Mind | :PROPERTIES: | :CATEGORY: TAoM | :END: | | *** NEXT Chapter 1 ` Will give in the agenda: TLP: Scheduled: NEXT Chapter 5 TAoM: Scheduled: NEXT Chapter 1 It defines a category for each book. Caveat: when I first discover the power of categories (and other ways to attach interesting information to a headline) I started to use it a lot. Because I thought I would finally find something useful to do with these informations. But sometimes it's just too much, and the hope for some useful-thing-to-do-in-a-near-future leads to irrelevant hassle... So in this case, I would simply put * Chapter 5 of the Tractatus in the headline. But this might be entirely personal. BTW, the Tractatus is also on my TODO list :) -- Bastien ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] Another GTD question.
On Oct 22, 2006, at 2:39, Eddward DeVilla wrote: ... but I don't know one aspect of Org that I hope is maintained. It's really flexible. Kind of like perl. It has a lot of little nifty features that you can use to manage and organize information (to tasks, or whatever) and use can use any subset you want. You can learn it incrementally. (...as I have. It sound popular but I haven't even touched the publishing...) None of the features really require the use of any other feature except maybe agenda and agenda is just a flexible interface for gathering the information marked and managed by the other features. (Dates, tags, Todo state...) Yet all of the features work well together. There's more that one way to do most things. I am smiling happily at this description, it reflects very much of what I am trying to do with org-mode. - Carsten ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] Another GTD question.
Carsten Dominik [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Oct 23, 2006, at 9:21, Xiao-Yong Jin wrote: I'm wondering if you could absorb all the nifty features from emacs-muse or planner, etc. Especially various export formats and more text markups? In this generality: no. The focus of muse is publishing, and that is not the focus of org-mode. So blindly taking over more features is nothing I'd like to do. If you have specific things you'd find particularly useful, and if you take the time to describe exactly how they should work instead of expecting me to do that, you chances are much better :-) No, I can't think of any now. It just works fantastic so far. Xiao-Yong -- ,,, (o o) ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
RE: [Orgmode] Another GTD question.
On 10/21/06, Christopher Kuettner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Aside from that... What is the basic design model for org-mode? What is org supposed to be? Where it is headed? I thought I got an outliner with dates-capabilities. No it's almost a full fledged publishing platform... I think you did a terrific job so far. Maybe you have to make some fundamental decisions here... Those are some interesting questions. I certainly can't answer any of them, but I don't know one aspect of Org that I hope is maintained. It's really flexible. Kind of like perl. It has a lot of little nifty features that you can use to manage and organize information (to tasks, or whatever) and use can use any subset you want. You can learn it incrementally. (...as I have. It sound popular but I haven't even touched the publishing...) None of the features really require the use of any other feature except maybe agenda and agenda is just a flexible interface for gathering the information marked and managed by the other features. (Dates, tags, Todo state...) Yet all of the features work well together. There's more that one way to do most things. I don't really understand GTD, elisp or project management that I would try to guess a good direction for Org-mode, but I do hope it is able to maintain a design where you can pick and choose the features and assemble them as they suit you instead of trying to impose a framework or style. And yes, Carsten and company of done an excellent job. For all I've pestered him and the list, I don't say that enough. I just picked org-mode because I was looking for a replacement an orphaned outliner that I depended on. Org turned out to be better in many ways and has since surpassed it in all ways. It's changed how I manage list, projects, todo and information in general. I'm actually excited to see how it will grow. You've done great. ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] Another GTD question.
Hi Piotr, thanks for sticking my head into that dark hole again :-) Yes, the issues of headlines and plain list items have been bugging me for a long time, and am I glad to share my thoughts here - if only to grab this chance to organize them again. Maybe some kind of solution will present itself eventually. First of all, there is one subtle but critical structural difference between the two concepts of outline headlines and items. A headline starts a new subsection in a tree. The body below the headline only ends at the next headline. This is, in fact sometimes unfortunate, because you can never go back to the level of text where you were. For example: * level one some text ** item1 ** item2 And now I would like to continue with the thought started with some text but I cannot! Items allow you to do just that * level one some text - item1 - item2 And here we continue after some text I see this problem as the single most frustrating issue. When I want to record a TODO in the middle of some longish text, I - cannot reaaly do so. Therefore, allowing plain list items to become TODO entries is something I *really* want. I am not sure if *anyone* has actually noticed, but org-mode does not provide proper outlining support for plain list items. If you set org-cycle-include-plain-lists, org-mode is cheating. Items are temporarily (for the duration of an org-cycle command) treated as outline headings. So in the example above, And here we continue... is actually treated as part of item2, betraying the true structure. So one thing to be fixed is definitely this: proper cycle functionality for plain lists. The reason why this is more difficult is that to find the end of an item, you cannot simply use a regular expression search for the next heading, you have to walk down line by line to find the next line with the proper indentation. That is why the handling code for promotion etc is separate. If you are looking for common handling code for things like promotion and demotion, you can go one level up and use function like org-shiftmetaleft, which do the proper dispatching. About checklists and TODO items, I think that it makes sense to have both, one lightweight, and a more heavy one for use in agenda buffers. But what would be nice is to have the possibility to make a plain list item a TODO entry. I'd really like this. Here are the problems with it: - A lot of the code handling TODOs was written early when there were no plain lists. That code often explicitly assumes that TODO is preceded by the beginning of a line and a few stars. Several regular expressions that are used all over the place implicitly make this assumption. This is just bad programming, but there you are, org-mode has been growing instead of having been designed from top to bottom. - To make TODO in plain list items fully useful, I'd have to be able to apply tags to them. However, other than headlines, the first line of a plain list item does not have a defined end, it can be filled and wrapped - so where would a good place be, where should TAGS be stored? Any good proposals? - Another issue would be: If I have a deadline or a scheduled item, should it refer to plain list item of which it is a part, or should it (as it does now) always refer to the nearest headline? I guess the former would make more sense, greately increasing the complexity when scanning files for the agenda. This would slow down creation of the agenda - maybe a price we could pay, I don't know. The most important obstacle is that I would need something like 3 consecutive days with nothing else on my mind to make the changes without introducing too many new bugs. These I currently don't have, they are very difficult to find. Anyway, if there is ever a version 5 of org-mode, it will have these features and require intensive testing. :-) 1. As opposed to headings, plain list items can consists of more than one line. On the other hand, they cannot be assigned tags or marked TODO. So, sometimes, one has to use one or the other. This is especially problematic, if you would like a TODO item below a multi-line plain list item. It would be great if the features of headings and plain lists could be, at least to some extent, combined. 2. Code duplication. At the moment, AFAIK, you need to write separate code for headings and plain lists. Also, some features exist for both but in different forms, for example, TODO/DONE for headings is essentially the same as [ ]/[X] for plain lists. I don't mind having different representation for the same concept as long as their share the same handling code. However, I feel that any attempt at integrating integrating headings and plain lists would require a significant rewrite. Carsten, could you please comment on the main difficulties of such integration? Thanks, Piotr
Re: [Orgmode] Another GTD question.
Carsten Dominik [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Sep 30, 2006, at 7:25, Alex Bochannek wrote: Work: NEXT Do software thing :COMPUTER:Software: Work: WAITING Delivery of software :Software: Home: SOMEDAY Books to Read Home: NEXT: Buy Stamps :ERRANDS: Or something along those lines. I am not really sure what to do with the meta tags and whether I should attach them to WAITING items, for example. There is no way to limit a view by tag or search string in the TODO view, is there? That would make them a lot more useful to me. Can you formulate an example search you would like to do? For starters a 'N t' to limit the view by tag would be good. Maybe limiting the view by regexp would be a nice addition. 's' maybe? Alex. ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] Another GTD question.
I really like this discussion started by Alex. It has triggered for me a lot of thinking and clarity about how to use Org-mode for a GTD system. High time, because my current system basically is do whatever the closest person pointing a gun to your head is asking. Has kept me alive, if stressed :-). Charles Cave's [article/tutorial] gives a great overview over the basic structure of GTD and his views on implementing GTD with org-mode. Below are a few thoughts on how GTD elements can be represented in org-mode. 2 The (too?) many organizational elements of Org-mode ~ There are many ways to apply structure to your notes using Org-mode: - Categories (i.e. files) - Lists (outlines) - TODO keywords - TAGS and many of these can be used interchangeably. For example, if I am collecting the things I have to discuss with my colleagues Peter and Sarah, I could - use lists : * Agendas : ** Peter : *** item p1 : *** item p2 : ** Sarah : *** item s1 : *** item s2 - use TODO keywords : #+TYP_TODO: Peter Sarah : : * Project X : ** Peter item p1 : ** Sarah item s1 : * Project Y : ** Peter item p2 : ** Sarah item s2 - use TAGS : * Project X : ** item p1 :Peter: : ** item s1 :Sarah: : * Project Y : ** item p2 :Peter: : ** item s2 :Sarah: The same is true for contexts like [EMAIL PROTECTED]', [EMAIL PROTECTED]', [EMAIL PROTECTED]' etc as they are being used in GTD. You could make a list of things to be handled at your computer at home, or you could use tags for contexts. So what is the best way to approach these issues, what method should be preferred and why? I think his is the core of the present discussion. For me personally, the main advantage of Org-mode is that I can keep information relating to a project together in one place. This is best for many reasons, for example - things that belong together, stay together - easy review if a project is stuck So I would not generally make lists for a specific contexts or people. Lists for a specific person are unlikely as well. Most of the time I would use either TAGS or TODO keywords, also because the search functions for tags and TODO keywords are the most powerful ones in Org-mode. 3 CATEGORIES for broad splitting of the GTD system ~~ I am using separate files for things I need to do for HOME and for WORK. At work I use one big file for most things, but the biggest tasks/projects I split off and put them into a separate file. 4 TAGS versus TODO keywords versus Lists to implement GTD elements ~~ 4.1 Context === I think most of us agree that contexts (location and required tools for doing a task) is something best implemented with TAGS in the org-mode system. Tags like @home, @work, @phone, @computer, @mall can be defined and easily applied to any tasks that need that particular context. 4.2 The GTD lists as *status* of a task === Another important part of GTD terminology are different lists that contain tasks, for example NEXT ACTION, WAITING, or SOMEDAY/MAYBE. In the original GTD terminology these are called lists. When thinking about implementation in Org-mode, it occurred to me that these are better called /status of a task/ which is then used to make corresponding lists. Here is what I mean by status: - TODO: this is something that needs to be done, no further specification if this can be done now or not. - NEXT: this is something that can be done /now/, you have everything you need to start doing it. This is what /next actions/ are about. - WAITING: This item cannot be done now, because we are waiting for something. Somebody else needs to act, some material needs to arrive, etc. - SOMEDAY: means that you have not decided that this needs to be done. How should we go about implementing this structure in org-mode? 1. We could make physically separate lists for each task status. As I said, I don't like this idea and will not discuss it further. 2. We can use TODO keywords to implement these different states. Each time the state changes, we switch to a different TODO keyword. This is very easy from an Agenda view: `1 t', `2 t', `3 t' etc directly switch to the corresponding keyword. In the buffer, try `Shift-left/right' with the cursor on the keyword. 3. We can use TAGS to implement this structure. So each TODO item would have an additional tag, identifying the state of the task. - Advantage: you keep the simple on/off of a TODO item. - Disadvantage: When you mark an entry DONE, the NEXT tag (or whichever the current status is will stick around and put this item into your NEXT ACTION lists. Which of these two possibilities you choose
Re: [Orgmode] Another GTD question.
Hi, In relation to Carsten's email, I'd like to ask about possible integration of headings and plain lists. I remember that such integration was difficult because of the implementation of outline-mode, but I don't know the details. In case this is possible, here are a few reasons why I'd like it: 1. As opposed to headings, plain list items can consists of more than one line. On the other hand, they cannot be assigned tags or marked TODO. So, sometimes, one has to use one or the other. This is especially problematic, if you would like a TODO item below a multi-line plain list item. It would be great if the features of headings and plain lists could be, at least to some extent, combined. 2. Code duplication. At the moment, AFAIK, you need to write separate code for headings and plain lists. Also, some features exist for both but in different forms, for example, TODO/DONE for headings is essentially the same as [ ]/[X] for plain lists. I don't mind having different representation for the same concept as long as their share the same handling code. However, I feel that any attempt at integrating integrating headings and plain lists would require a significant rewrite. Carsten, could you please comment on the main difficulties of such integration? Thanks, Piotr ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] Another GTD question.
Here are some places I use for maintaining lists: org-mode files, browser bookmarks, amazon basket, amazon wishlist, amazon recommended books, watchthatpage, google alerts, delicious, movielens, citeulike. Each of them is different, has its strengths and weaknesses, and it would be very difficult to integrate them into a single system. My solution at the moment, is just to have a metalist: a list in my org file containing URLs of all my lists. You might not find it too difficult to integrate all of these lists using a bit of coding. Most of the services you mention probably have APIs, and it's likely there are some libraries for the scripting language of your choice out there. I wrote a quick bit of Ruby code, with a little elisp function to call it, to pull my bookmarks from ma.gnolia into an emacs buffer, for example. I don't know Ruby too well, but with the help of a library I found, this was a 15 minute job. Extend this to all your other services, and it'd be fairly easy to have a master-list in Emacs. Chris -- Chris Lowis http://www.chrislowis.co.uk/ ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] Another GTD question.
Hi,
Org-mode is a major part of my GTD scheme, however, there are some
tasks for which I think it's not ideal. One example are lists of
lightweight items; items that are not critical and nothing seriously
bad would happen if they are forgotten. Interesting webpages to read
or papers to read/print are good examples.
FORGETTABLE LISTS
The following requirements describe the problem:
1. Adding new items must be as easy as possible, preferably just a
single click of the browser button Mark this page for future
reading. This is the most important requirement, which is not
currently met by org-mode.
2. The list works like a stack: adding is possible only on the top.
This keeps the items on the list in the approximate order of
decreasing relevance to my current interests.
3. Only the say 10 most recent items are of any relevance. If any
earlier items haven't been acted upon, they are not relevant
enough: I have at least 10 more interesting things to do. I don't
want to see such items; if they become relevant in the future I can
always add them again.
MY LISTS
1. To Read for webpages/papers I want to read
2. To Print for pdfs to print when I'm in the office
3. To Use interesting internet services to try
4. To Buy for gadgets I might be interested in buying
5. To Supermemo for concepts to memorize with supermemo [1]
6. Books to Read
7. Movies to Watch
IMPLEMENTATION
Currently, I use del.icio.us to maintain them. I have a menu in the
Toolbar menu that contains bookmarklets like Add To Read with the
following URL (one line)
javascript: function loadScript(scriptURL) { var scriptElem =
document.createElement('iframe'); scriptElem.setAttribute('src',
scriptURL); document.body.appendChild(scriptElem);}
loadScript('https://api.del.icio.us/v1/posts/add?tags=to-readurl='+encodeURIComponent(location.href)+'description='+encodeURIComponent(document.title))
and also Live Bookmarks that point to the RSS of the relevant lists,
and display the first 10 or so items on each list.
METALISTS
Here are some places I use for maintaining lists: org-mode files,
browser bookmarks, amazon basket, amazon wishlist, amazon recommended
books, watchthatpage, google alerts, delicious, movielens, citeulike.
Each of them is different, has its strengths and weaknesses, and it
would be very difficult to integrate them into a single system. My
solution at the moment, is just to have a metalist: a list in my
org file containing URLs of all my lists.
Piotr
[1] http://www.supermemo.net.pl/index.net
___
Emacs-orgmode mailing list
Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] Another GTD question.
to use Org-mode for GTD. ; self-documenting org-mode gtd-outline * @today ** TODO [#A] next action items I have to do today (hard landscape) ** TODO [#B] actions I want to do today (to plan ahead gives my day some flow, since I work at home alone ** TODO [#B] I do: org-agenda-include-diary t ** TODO [#B] agenda is set to org-agenda-include-all-todo t ** TODO [#B] so I can work nicely off the daily *Agenda* while at computer (*Agenda* = hard landscape) * @waiting for - a list - with waiting-for items * @agenda - another plain list - sometimes I have more than one - topic to share with a give persona - actually this list is named @messaging because agenda is an org-mode reserved word * @todo 1. a sorted list of all my other next actions for @computer, 2. @phone, @office, @desk contexts 3. I sort roughly in the order I want to tackle them 4. I try to get them all done 'til the next weekly review 5. again: since working from home there are not that much interruptions, so the whole gtdish @whatyoucandonow has to emulate some workday-structure too. 6. when @today is empty I work off this list * @projects 1. sorted list of projects inventory 2. I try to have only the projects her, I am working on this week or the next 3. project support materials are in directories in my home-dir * someday ** already commited but not this week DROPLINE: some date to speed me up * maybe ** whatever I have in this bucket comes ** sorted by importance because it is so much * Special Areas Of Focus ** a structure of my *** working environment and it's subsets like for example 'office management or 'mac maintenance ** as a checklist to *** gain overview while higher-level thinking is enabled *** or to spin of new projects during weekly review * daily major activities I have a table here with things I want to do daily/weekly on a regular basis. Normally I print this out and mark the fields 'done after completion thorough the week. * incoming Some lines of text that tend to get appended her by some scripts or my hands from the device driver's CLI environment. (I run MAC OS X as device driver for my Emacs OS) ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] Another GTD question.
Hi Alex, I am currently using a system that isn't that different from it, but I am trying to figure out the best way to use Org-mode for GTD. I don't think there is any best way to use GTD system or org-mode for that matter. One of the core principles of GTD is creating lists of next actions organised by context. A context is some restraint that only allows the action to be done in a particular place, time, or with particular resources. my first instinct would be to group all my work next actions under specific headlines (e.g., hardware, software, etc.) since I work in different areas. I think that is a good idea because when you review your system... the org-mode file you can use these headlines if hardware, software, etc as a checklist for the question Are there any outstanding actions on this equipment?. It's not really a context since while I am at work, I can work on any number of tasks in the different areas. The context talks about what it is I need, where I need to be, or a type of activity. Maybe I overlooked something, but it seems like another dimension to the problem. Maybe WORK is a sufficient context for your office related activities. I don't think you need to break it down any further than that. How does this relate to Org-mode? In Org-mode I see different approaches to how one could structure these lists: - Outlines - Tags - ToDo keywords - Categories (files) The lists can be structured anyway you want, but the strength of org-mode is scanning your whole file to build up a list of lines matching a tag. Organising the actions under specific category tags is extra (unnecessary) work since org-mode does it for you. Keeping the actions in context with other items may make more sense. Let me add my context tags to yourlist o Call the bank about personal statements :PHONE: o Go to post office to buy stamps :ERRANDS: o Wait for SysAdmin to finish server install :WAITING: o Hang new pictures at home :HOME: o Discuss new development process with boss :BOSS: (Create a tag for items (agenda) to discuss with your boss o Read through vendor proposal :READING: (Can this reading be done at home or on your train trip to work? Reading is one of those activities that can be done almost anywhere) o Server Install project at work:OFFICE: o Install software upgrade on laptop :OFFICE: o Learn more about font-lock in Org-mode :OFFICE: So when you are at the office, you display the tags for OFFICE. If you set up a meeting with your boss, you search for :BOSS so you get the most out of your meeting with the boss. When you are reviewing what you are waiting for, use the WAITING tag. During your lunch break, you search for ERRANDS. I am really looking forward to hear what people who are already using GTD with Org-mode suggest and hope that those how are not familiar with GTD may still find the discussion interesting. I'm still refining my system with org-mode so I am keen to hear from others on this. Charles ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
